Olimar general discussion

[RelaxAlax]

Yeah, here's to 4.0

I'll probably pull him out beside my Ganon at tournaments. Playing those two together can seriously disorient opponents because of how much their play contrasts.

 

[robosteven]

Yeah, here's to 4.0

I'll probably pull him out beside my Ganon at tournaments. Playing those two together can seriously disorient opponents because of how much their play contrasts.

I do the same with Marth.

Matchups that don't work with Olimar work hilariously well with Marth.

 

[B.W.]

I've started to take toward playing Marth a little more these days because I've been playing Melee again and Marth and Olimar actually have very similar neutral games.

It's funny though because even though they're similar, their small differences have huge effects when it comes to their matchups.

I'd probably use Marth against Fox, Marth, Roy, Ike, Link, T.Link and Samus.

On the flip side I'd probably use Olimar against Jigglypuff, Kirby, Squirtle, Ice Climbers, and Peach (though the matchup is even for Marth, I think it's way better for Olimar).

But on this list I could always just use my boi T.Link and destroy, Marth, Roy, Ike, Samus, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Squirtle, Ice Climbers and Peach, and be even with Link and T.Link. So there's that.

 

[Dotcom]

Everybody in Philadelphia now officially hates Olimar. One city at a time.

 

[steelguttey]

oh **** i have vods too i forgot

http://www.twitch.tv/long_island_smash/b/627856361?t=4h58m26s

hola

 

[B.W.]

I can't watch the twitch one right now, but not bad Dotcom.

If I had any kind of criticism for the Kirby match, there were probably a few times you could have U-Smashed when he was above you to teach him that the air was bad. Other than that you adapted nicely and played well.

 

[B.W.]

I've been trying to make it a point to play PM more and the more I play Olimar the more my opinion about him shifts. Sometimes I think he's meh other times I think he's really stupid.

Lately though I honestly feel like he's reeeeeally stupid, in a good way. I'm reinventing this character... Only to probably have it ruined in the next version, where I'll quit him again until I feel like he needs a savior.

 

[steelguttey]

bw gimme tips on the twitch vod i posted when you can

 

[robosteven]

I'm seeing side-b and f-smash abuse being successful, and I just don't like that campy super-safe style of play.

Maybe I'm not designed to play this character.

 

[steelguttey]

nah side b and fsmash spam isnt that important

theyre both situational

 

[B.W.]

No, it's important. Coming from playing a ton of Y.Link in Melee and being forced to resort to doing nothing but throwing bombs, I decided "what if I just don't give a **** about Pikmin growth?"

So I decided to play a toss up between Y.Link throwing **** and Marth never approaching and punishing and spacing. Playing my step brother, who usually beats me, the results were amazing. I ended up making guidelines in my head on the fly for Pikmin Throw spam, and the best part was that I was having fun micromanaging what was coming next, and Whistle became an organization tool again.

This gets Pikmin killed way more often, but so what? Flowered Pikmin aren't that special anymore except for Purple and Blue because they're your main killers, and they have no trouble living to the flower stage due to their high HP. I wish I could find my recording device, cause I'd show you all.

 

[B.W.]

oh **** i have vods too i forgot

http://www.twitch.tv/long_island_smash/b/627856361?t=4h58m26s

hola

Tips, okay here we go.
General gameplay tips:
- JC your grabs more. I don't know if you're trying and missing or you're trying to go for dash grabs. Pikmin grabs come out sooner and are way more active when you do their stand grab animation
- You approach too hard. If you want to approach space F-Airs so you'll hit with the Pikmin's feet more than anything this will make you much harder to punish OoS. Also sometimes challenge stuff with N-Air because SHFFL N-Air obviously leads to things.
- Work on your DI a bit, namely your Smash DI. I saw Luigi get way too many free D-Smash hits and N-Air combos which ended with you being in a bad position.
- I suggest throwing White at the opponent right away. They die quick, but that's kind of why I suggest it. Their only use is dealing damage while latched on to opponents. The knockback and damage (outside of flower) they do isn't worth trying to keep them alive. Let them attempt to deal some damage, and let yourself have a free pluck. If you're lucky it will explode which is a free opening for you.
- I also suggest throwing Red pretty much right away, but this is kind of a personal preference for me. Red doesn't offer anything special, so it helps when it tacks on more damage with Side-B. It's fine to hit with too though so don't feel like you have to throw it away all the time. Reds are also plenty expendable for F-Smashing people off the stage for edge guards.
- Yellow is the third Pikmin I suggest not worrying about keeping alive. I used to think Yellow was the worst, but I think its on par with Red thanks to its speed buff. Yellow is by far the most useful F-Smash Pikmin and the most useful U-Smash OoS Pikmin with how fast it is, but it's still plenty expendable so don't prioritize its life.
- There were a few times I saw you trying to recover, but you didn't whistle and I counted at least two times where whistling would have brought your Pikmin back to you and allowed you to recover. No matter what you're doing, if you have a double jump, input Whistle as you're rising from it. Even if you don't think you need to. It will help you make it back to the stage and ensure (bugs aside) that your Pikmin won't abandon you.

Luigi match-up tips (mostly from experience too):
- Don't approach Luigi. It's almost always a bad idea. Throw **** at him all day. Force him to approach you and punish him with F-Airs, F-Smashes, etc. Keep a close eye out for him jumping, because he has the worst aerial mobility in the game and is also floaty. When he jumps, that's your cue to smack him with a F-Air.
- Don't over do your combos. For the most part with Luigi you just want to hit him once and be done with him. Let the neutral reset. If you get comfortable enough with the matchup you can go for follow ups with well spaced F-Airs, B-Airs and U-Airs. Since these moves are disjointed they can knock Luigi out of his N-Air when he tries to stop your combos, but Pikmin's range aren't overly long so this can be risky. You can watch Marth vs Luigi videos in PM or Melee to see what I'm getting at though.
- Why the hell did you counterpick Smashville? This stage lacks platforms, save for the moving one, and because of that it benefits Luigi more than Olimar. The moving platform actually helps Luigi's recovery more than Olimar's does. You want stages with platforms so you can run away from Luigi. His aerial mobility will make it hard to keep up with you.
- Dash dance more. Pivot grab more. This goes with making him approach. His only real options of closing the gap between him and you is staying on the ground. You grab anything he does. Recognize when it's not a good idea to throw stuff and make yourself mobile and bait stuff.

Life tips:
Are you the kid with the fro? Get a haircut god damn!

 

[steelguttey]

Tips, okay here we go.
General gameplay tips:
- JC your grabs more. I don't know if you're trying and missing or you're trying to go for dash grabs. Pikmin grabs come out sooner and are way more active when you do their stand grab animation
- You approach too hard. If you want to approach space F-Airs so you'll hit with the Pikmin's feet more than anything this will make you much harder to punish OoS. Also sometimes challenge stuff with N-Air because SHFFL N-Air obviously leads to things.
- Work on your DI a bit, namely your Smash DI. I saw Luigi get way too many free D-Smash hits and N-Air combos which ended with you being in a bad position.
- I suggest throwing White at the opponent right away. They die quick, but that's kind of why I suggest it. Their only use is dealing damage while latched on to opponents. The knockback and damage (outside of flower) they do isn't worth trying to keep them alive. Let them attempt to deal some damage, and let yourself have a free pluck. If you're lucky it will explode which is a free opening for you.
- I also suggest throwing Red pretty much right away, but this is kind of a personal preference for me. Red doesn't offer anything special, so it helps when it tacks on more damage with Side-B. It's fine to hit with too though so don't feel like you have to throw it away all the time. Reds are also plenty expendable for F-Smashing people off the stage for edge guards.
- Yellow is the third Pikmin I suggest not worrying about keeping alive. I used to think Yellow was the worst, but I think its on par with Red thanks to its speed buff. Yellow is by far the most useful F-Smash Pikmin and the most useful U-Smash OoS Pikmin with how fast it is, but it's still plenty expendable so don't prioritize its life.
- There were a few times I saw you trying to recover, but you didn't whistle and I counted at least two times where whistling would have brought your Pikmin back to you and allowed you to recover. No matter what you're doing, if you have a double jump, input Whistle as you're rising from it. Even if you don't think you need to. It will help you make it back to the stage and ensure (bugs aside) that your Pikmin won't abandon you.

Luigi match-up tips (mostly from experience too):
- Don't approach Luigi. It's almost always a bad idea. Throw **** at him all day. Force him to approach you and punish him with F-Airs, F-Smashes, etc. Keep a close eye out for him jumping, because he has the worst aerial mobility in the game and is also floaty. When he jumps, that's your cue to smack him with a F-Air.
- Don't over do your combos. For the most part with Luigi you just want to hit him once and be done with him. Let the neutral reset. If you get comfortable enough with the matchup you can go for follow ups with well spaced F-Airs, B-Airs and U-Airs. Since these moves are disjointed they can knock Luigi out of his N-Air when he tries to stop your combos, but Pikmin's range aren't overly long so this can be risky. You can watch Marth vs Luigi videos in PM or Melee to see what I'm getting at though.
- Why the hell did you counterpick Smashville? This stage lacks platforms, save for the moving one, and because of that it benefits Luigi more than Olimar. The moving platform actually helps Luigi's recovery more than Olimar's does. You want stages with platforms so you can run away from Luigi. His aerial mobility will make it hard to keep up with you.
- Dash dance more. Pivot grab more. This goes with making him approach. His only real options of closing the gap between him and you is staying on the ground. You grab anything he does. Recognize when it's not a good idea to throw stuff and make yourself mobile and bait stuff.

Life tips:
Are you the kid with the fro? Get a haircut god damn!

this is gonna have awful formatting bc im on mobile but lets get on with it:

- yea i jcing grabs isnt something ive payed attention to but now that everyone at my local is getting a better punish game i guess i should get on that.
- for some god awful reason i go aggro with olimar. it only happens sometimes and idk why i do it.
- my di is butts and it shuts down when i go autopilot
- i like white. it has the second longest grab range and has low knockback so its better for starting comboes against floaties. also flowered white is more damage than you think. its basically an investment in flowered white side b.
-red fair kills hella early and i need that against floaties. i love reds.
- yea yellows are sweet. how is their fsmash better tho?
- idk i feel like if im whistling im leaving myself open for edgeguarding but i see what you mean
-thanks. is pivot fsmash good in this matchup? cus i feel like it is.
- i just hate how his nair beats out my usmash
- i went to smashville because low ceilings and i needed room to chuck pikmin at him
- usually my pivot grabs are good but this matchup is so weird i dont feel in control enough to do it.

- no. lots of people will be mad at me if i do

 

[B.W.]

-red fair kills hella early and i need that against floaties. i love reds.

So does Purple and Blue. Blue BKB and KBG are actually still similar to Red's (sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, depends on the move, but it's never more than like 4 numbers higher/lower). The damage is not, but that's why you throw Red, Yellow and White, because you want to cycle for more Purple. It's that farming game that you dislike.

Personally my favorite line is 3 Blue 1 Purple, and I'll usually just keep throwing my Pikmin at the opponent until they die so I get this line, and then I'll still just keep throwing Pikmin at the opponent because it's really good to do so.

- yea yellows are sweet. how is their fsmash better tho?

Damage and knockback aren't as good as other Pikmin, but Yellow's moves come out faster, and it's very noticeable with Yellow. Yellow F-Smash can usually be done on reaction rather than read like the other 4 Pikmin. F-Smash is also just a good move now, it's like throwing out a N-Air. If you space it well it creates a fairly nice wall to give you space.

- idk i feel like if im whistling im leaving myself open for edgeguarding but i see what you mean

If you whistle, and you get edge guarded, then you were going to get edge guarded anyway. Whistle is 12 frames.

-thanks. is pivot fsmash good in this matchup? cus i feel like it is.

Pivot F-Smash is good in any matchup. But on top of that, F-Smashing from a platform above the main stage, dropping Pikmin onto the opponent is something that's really good that I don't ever see anyone else do. Hopefully I'll have videos soonish to show you.

- i just hate how his nair beats out my usmash

Luigi has always been like that. The only characters that can challenge this stuff are actual sword characters. Like I said, for the most part just leave it to go back to neutral after a single hit, it's what most other characters have to do against Luigi as well, and it's part of why he's such a frustrating character to play.

- i went to smashville because low ceilings and i needed room to chuck pikmin at him

Low ceilings are less important than stage layout. You might kill him earlier, but if the stage gives him an advantage in neutral, don't play it. I'd suggest picking Fountain of Dreams before Smashville or Final Destination.

In this matchup I'd try to counter-pick in this order, and I'm mentioning a lot because I don't know what your region's stage set is:
1. Battlefield - It gives you space and the platforms you need to move around
2. Fountain of Dreams - It's smaller than Battlefield, but not too small. If the platforms go down you can always use the top to catch your breathe when Luigi is smothering you.
3. Pokemon Stadium 2: Only two platforms, but they're still platforms. The stage isn't too small either so you can have some space.
4. Skyworld - Tall ceiling, but these platforms are hell for Luigi to navigate because his air speed is so bad, and they're in perfect places for you to throw F-Smashes down at the ground. The sides also aren't too far out.
5. Green Hill Zone - It's a weird pick because it's only got one platform, but because it's constantly moving it's more helpful than it looks for getting around Luigi's crap.
6. Dreamland 64 - I really don't recommend this, but if your stage list is so small this is all you can get, then it's still your best bet. The blast zones on this stage are so ridiculous that I would definitely try to avoid this if possible though. That said, the stage is big and the platforms are in good places to make it hard for Luigi to catch you. If you want to kill though you're either going to be playing a decently long waiting game, trying to rack up damage, or you're going to have to be confident in your ability to gimp Luigi.

And I'd ban these:
Final Destination - Flat = bad
Smashville - Like I said the moving platform helps Luigi's recovery which is usually mediocre. It's also flat otherwise, which is, once again, bad.
Yoshi's Story (Melee) - I know it has 3 platforms. The reason why this stage is exempt from my "have platforms" rule is because this stage actually messes with Olimar's ability to recover. Not only does Randall like to make your tether screwy, but if you're recovering full distance and you need to hang for a second I'm pretty sure you can't. Trying to hang on max range tether in this stage, I'm pretty sure will kill you. Not to mention the stage is small. Platforms or not Olimar doesn't have any breathing room. Honestly, I'd avoid this stage as much as possible, unless the matchup calls for a different ban.
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) - This stage isn't usually that bad for Olimar. It's just this matchup and the Squirtle matchup really. It's mostly flat and the top platform doesn't do squat to help you in these matchups.

- no. lots of people will be mad at me if i do

Donate it. I chopped off this pony-tail I had when I was 16 and donated it and it invalidated people's right to be mad at me. I do miss it though.

Bonus B.W.'s hair from 2006

 

[Dotcom]

Just some stuff

Bdubbs I do know about the Pikmin drop. F-smash works sort of like Villager's bowling ball(Purple at least); The problem is it's kind of hard to hit with practically. Pretty good for esgeguarding though. Dropping a red or yellow against a recovery sets up for some cool stuff ( Dair, Nair, Ftilt etc.)

Low percent White Pikmin toss coupled with a grab combo puts you half way through someone's stock. Olimar really isn't as bad as people say.

More and more I'm starting to think Oli in PM was designed as a sort of tech chase character. Just with insane neutral.

Can somebody do some cool Oli footstool stuffs?
Usmash -> Footstool?
Dair -> Footstool?
Nair -> Footstool?

Sidenote: I think Dreamland is a gdlk CP. You don't have to think much to get Pikmin flowered.

We just need more folk willing to put in the work. Its a hard life doe.

 

[steelguttey]

Just some stuff

Bdubbs I do know about the Pikmin drop. F-smash works sort of like Villager's bowling ball(Purple at least); The problem is it's kind of hard to hit with practically. Pretty good for esgeguarding though. Dropping a red or yellow against a recovery sets up for some cool stuff ( Dair, Nair, Ftilt etc.)

Low percent White Pikmin toss coupled with a grab combo puts you half way through someone's stock. Olimar really isn't as bad as people say.

More and more I'm starting to think Oli in PM was designed as a sort of tech chase character. Just with insane neutral.

Can somebody do some cool Oli footstool stuffs?
Usmash -> Footstool?
Dair -> Footstool?
Nair -> Footstool?

Sidenote: I think Dreamland is a gdlk CP. You don't have to think much to get Pikmin flowered.

We just need more folk willing to put in the work. Its a hard life doe.

fsmash on a platform is pretty insane. its not that youre hitting someone, its that youre cutting off a full part of the map and that really ****s people up in some matchups

thats been here since 3.0. we know. he sucks because his recovery doesnt work.

that would be true if he had kirby's down throw but sadly he doesnt have many ways to put people in tech chase situations

footstools are too gimmicky on olimar tbh

stagelist tierlist would probably be

yoshi's
ps2
smashville
dreamland

everything else is cheese

 

[Dotcom]

I've been working with forward and b throw. Any chance you get to put em on the ground is love. Its just they didn't flesh his tools out in that department so tech roll away is always a bane.

Maybe Fsmash with yellow. I'll try and play with it a bit more but it feels like the super cheese.

Buddy already super gimmicky, I don't see wynaut. Anything you tried specifically that you were like "nahhhhhh. To hell with that footstool grabage"

Moar vids
vs Samus

vs Marf.

 

[steelguttey]

I've been working with forward and b throw. Any chance you get to put em on the ground is love. Its just they didn't flesh his tools out in that department so tech roll away is always a bane.

Maybe Fsmash with yellow. I'll try and play with it a bit more but it feels like the super cheese.

Buddy already super gimmicky, I don't see wynaut. Anything you tried specifically that you were like "nahhhhhh. To hell with that footstool grabage"

forward and bthrow are too powerful to set up tech chases, but it can work at like 0%

nah the angles thant all of them go at help out alot if you do it right

usmash-footstool is really dumb cus if you can do that then you can jnust get another usmash instead lol

 

[Dotcom]

I've seen footstoolused pretty creatively by other characters. I'd footstool of a combo in certain situations if I meant more in terms of a follow up.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Hey guys I played Olimar in tournament, actually went decently far.

This is my only stream match, and honestly it was pretty bad for the first two because 1. I don't know how to do the Zelda matchup and 2. it was like the first match I played, still not warm. When he was Sheik and Fox i stomped him lol no idea why he switched.

I got knocked out by Blitz' Ike, any idea how to handle that character?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I got knocked out by Blitz' Ike, any idea how to handle that character?

Whenever I've battled Ike, I've noticed his vertical recovery isn't the best; so try gimping him when he's trying to recover vertically. Characters with spikes are really good at gimping recoveries like Ike's, since he relies so heavily on Aether for vertical recovery. If you keep him far off the stage, he's either going to need to use his side-B and risk getting gimped or just use Aether and die anyways.

Basically, keeping Ike off the stage will be your best bet at winning, especially if you can press your offense so that he can't manage a counter of some kind. Charizard would probably work decently well for countering Ike off-stage, since he has multiple jumps, Fly is much better than Aether at vertical recovery and you have a spike that can gimp him while he has no such ability. If you keep pressuring Ike, it becomes hard for said Ike to counter effectively if you're not giving him time to think of what he needs to counter you with. Of course, I'm also not very good with Olimar, so specific advice for him on my end is rather sparse; but general tips are better than none.

Ike's like Little Mac in that regard, but not as extreme; strong on the ground, but weak in the air. He's also slow, so it's easier to keep pressure on him.

 

[steelguttey]

you actually said nothing about ike vs olimar (what were talking about)

anyway

yea that matchup suuucks. burst movement+huge ass sword = no fun for olimar.

when he qd's you have options tho. if youre on a platform above him and he is charging qd you can charge an fsmash and he cant do much

his options out of qd are grab, usmash, aerial, and qd attack. grab and qd attackcovers the option you have of charging a smash, usmash covers jumping above him, and aerial stuffs nair. btw ike's nair ****s on olimar

 

[RelaxAlax]

Yeah, not much fun but i think its doable if you can catch him before he starts his game of quick dashes and stuff. Though a
gainst higher leveled players that's not exactly a thing they let go.

And I know. Nair ruins the Pikmin game so hard. I think I'll try taking Ike to a bigger stage to make room if I ever decide to play that matchup as Olimar. I think it's doable, but I'll need more practice to iron out a strategy. Definitely not an easy matchup.

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

I read in another thread that Olimar has some CGs until ~50% on some characters but that's all it said. Is this true and if so what characters can it be done on or is it mostly tech chases?

 

[steelguttey]

in 3.0 he could but it wasnt optimal cus you could just usmash

now dthrow isnt very good unless you use it as a di mixup for uthrow

 

[Captive]

Ok I am making with switch to being a soul Olimar main. I use to love zelda/shiek but Olimar has summoned me for the cause. I love this guy to death and can't imagine maining anyone else. I accept it's gonna be a hard one but soon I will be plucking stuff up in the MI scene soon enough!

 

[robosteven]

so what's with this inability-to-trade-with-hits-because-Pikmin-die-on-hit crap

is it getting fixed so that I can actually go at least 40-60 vs Fox

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

Can we also make it so shine doesn't instantly kill all pikmin on them. Like if I take time to zone them out and get 2+ pikmin on them I don't want them to just hit a 1 frame move that reverses all of my work.

 

[Ningildo]

How do you guys even get pikmin on them when lasers stop thrown pikmin in their...arc, I guess.

Shine is a concern...if it isn't shinespiking you already, among others. Between lasers and SHFLL Nair, camping Fox is harder then it should be ._.

 

[robosteven]

How do you guys even get pikmin on them when lasers stop thrown pikmin in their...arc, I guess.

Easy, don't use side-b.

This strategy doesn't work though because Olimar can't trade with Fox because Olimar's hitboxes have their own hurtboxes and health lol

 

[steelguttey]

after thinking about it and playing it out, i dont think marth is oli's worst mu. i used to say its 8-2. but now i think its 7-3 or maybe even 65-25 depending on the stage.

i think his worst matchup is ivy honestly. theres nothing oli can do in that mu

 

[robosteven]

Yeah, Ivy's pretty bad.

Marth's theoretically easy because Oli's got great and easy edgeguards against Marth, but getting him offstage in the first place is hilariously difficult.

 

[steelguttey]

the thing is marth is a decent comboweight and im nearly positive blue pivot grab and fsmash outrange alot of his stuff

the mu is still bad tho.

 

[PlateProp]

If you dont get hit you never have to be offstage so you never have to use up b and then you win because olimar is good onstage

Checkmate olimar mains

 

[Ningildo]

If you dont get hit you never have to be offstage so you never have to use up b and then you win because olimar is good onstage

Checkmate olimar mains

If you don't get grabbed/hit, you won't be in a techchase situation with a ****ty techroll and will be able to bait and punish anything cause you're a slippery **** and stop ******** about playing a bottom tier.

Checkmate, plate.

 

[PlateProp]

If you don't get grabbed/hit, you won't be in a techchase situation with a ****ty techroll and will be able to bait and punish anything cause you're a slippery **** and stop *****ing about playing a bottom tier.

Checkmate, plate.

Someone missed the 5 billion times we've established that it was a joke

 

[Ningildo]

I can't ****post, apparently.

Well, I can, but then people miss the fact it's a ****post. 9.9

 

[PlateProp]

I can't ****post, apparently.

Well, I can, but then people miss the fact it's a ****post. 9.9

****post not meta enough, got rebuked, cried in the corner

 

[steelguttey]

idk why every oli player started ****posting like its a trend

its my thing

 

[Ningildo]

Go back to PMS for ****posting.

I heard you even get likes there for posts.

You'll risk ending up in a dating sim, though.