Olimar general discussion

[steelguttey]

the yellow throwing arc is hella weird and is rly hard to hit tho they gotta change that.

and yo pikmin throw is hella

 

[WIDL]

But throwing purple --> grab is sooo good, why wouldn't you use it?

 

[steelguttey]

every pikmin that isnt blue is very good for throwing

 

[robosteven]

A part of me can't get over the fact that losing a Pikmin in battle not only reduces my recovery but also means I have to get another Pikmin and wait for it to flower in order to rack up MASSIVE DAMAGE.

My entire playstyle revolves around using Pikmin Throw as nothing more than a distraction, and I've had decent results in my local tourney because of it. I know attached Pikmin rack up damage hella quickly, but the risk of losing a flowered Pikmin (unless it's a Purple I'm throwing) isn't worth it to me. ...even though I know I'm completely wrong.

Like, every person I lose to suggests that I use Pikmin Throw more. It always feels like such a useless move when my opponent just swipes them clean off though.

If his recovery wasn't reliant on his Pikmin I'd totally use Pikmin Throw way more than I currently do.

 

[Shokio]

A part of me can't get over the fact that losing a Pikmin in battle not only reduces my recovery but also means I have to get another Pikmin and wait for it to flower in order to rack up MASSIVE DAMAGE.

My entire playstyle revolves around using Pikmin Throw as nothing more than a distraction, and I've had decent results in my local tourney because of it. I know attached Pikmin rack up damage hella quickly, but the risk of losing a flowered Pikmin (unless it's a Purple I'm throwing) isn't worth it to me. ...even though I know I'm completely wrong.

Like, every person I lose to suggests that I use Pikmin Throw more. It always feels like such a useless move when my opponent just swipes them clean off though.

If his recovery wasn't reliant on his Pikmin I'd totally use Pikmin Throw way more than I currently do.

Trust me dude, you HAVE to start using Pikmin Throw more often. Especially when it's a blossomed White. If a White is left on someone for 4 seconds, it'll literally rack up 64% damage. All the other Pikmin rack up 32%, which is still insanely freakin' good. They're worth throwing.

If you're having trouble with your opponent swatting them off, what I do is throw one on them while APPROACHING so I can hit them immediately after with a Fair. Hitting/pressuring your opponent while they have a Pikmin stuck on them is the key. That way, they don't have time to knock them off, and your Pikmin will rack up insane damage along with the moves you're hitting them with. So many times I've taken someone literally 0-100%+ by throwing a White on them, then doing Up-Smash > Up-Air combos.

Pikmin Throw could literally win the set for you. It's VERY good for making comebacks. Use those Whites!

 

[WIDL]

If you are good at preserving your second jump, you are not as dependent on having the maximum number of pikmins, as the second jump provides a lot of upward momentum.

 

[robosteven]

I am learning so much today. Thank you guys, gonna start trying to use that throw more.

 

[B.W.]

Some day I'll make that video to better explain putting Pikmin on call.

If I can record it smoothly on my PC, I'll do it tomorrow.

 

[jtm94]

Hey guys I need serious MU advice on GnW vs Olimar.
I play Sheik/Zelda as well, but I seem to do better as GnW.

I find myself fighting a very uphill battle when Olimar has a purple pikmin, my only way to avoid all of the damage from pikmin is approaching bair. Olimar's grab seems slow enough that I can escape with UpB out of l-cancelled bair. The problem is mainly this... I get grabbed and off of that I take 60% easy or die. Is there a special way to DI down/upthrow? I tested it and can't escape fair out of downthrow at almost any% with away DI and while DIing away I get hit with another fair while still in hitstun.. I really need help with this because the MU felt more hopeless than anything else I've faced in PM.

 

[robosteven]

Hey guys I need serious MU advice on GnW vs Olimar.
I play Sheik/Zelda as well, but I seem to do better as GnW.

I find myself fighting a very uphill battle when Olimar has a purple pikmin, my only way to avoid all of the damage from pikmin is approaching bair. Olimar's grab seems slow enough that I can escape with UpB out of l-cancelled bair. The problem is mainly this... I get grabbed and off of that I take 60% easy or die. Is there a special way to DI down/upthrow? I tested it and can't escape fair out of downthrow at almost any% with away DI and while DIing away I get hit with another fair while still in hitstun.. I really need help with this because the MU felt more hopeless than anything else I've faced in PM.

Stay grounded and CC everything (except for his nair). G&W's d-tilt beats Olimar, and the key beats his juggles.

 

[Timid_Panda]

Hello, I'm new to the forum, so sorry if this is the wrong place to post.

Has anyone here ever won a tournament with Olimar as their main?

 

[jtm94]

Stay grounded and CC everything (except for his nair). G&W's d-tilt beats Olimar, and the key beats his juggles.

Hmm, that's good to know. I can usually get down, I did notice pikmin fly off the key. The issue is that GnW doesn't have the best aerial momentum so in coming down he jumps to the side of me and fairs. I'm just mainly having an issue avoiding fair because it feels like it beats my fair out with invisible hitboxes.

 

[steelguttey]

whenever he tosses a pikmin just toss some bacon right back at him. other than that you are fine just dont approach by goign above him

 

[EmptySky00]

Pikmin throw seems far less committal than Bacon and have far more direct trajectories generally so that seems like a terrible out.


On another note, PMDT should seriously make it so you don't randomly suffer intervals of hitlag when fighting this character. Arbitrarily throwing off timing and giving him free frame advantage because hurtboxes appear around him when he uses certain moves is ****ing stupid and jank. I understand it's not literally random and the hurtboxes become live after certain moves are used, but it's still extremely janky. That's not an asset to a character that should be deemed as legitimate. It's bad enough IC's do that ****. At least with them it's more consistent.

 

[B.W.]

Pikmin aren't the only things that do that by the way. There are other, more useful, projectiles that put you in hitlag if you make contact with them.

 

[jtm94]

Like Nana?

Bacon against Pikmin doesn't work. They fly too true bar yellow and those go off the stage anyway.
My quest continues for GnW domination.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

I have just recently taken an interest in learning olimar seriously, but a few "subtle" problems really aggrevate me from using him competitively.
1. Lack of grab armor. While not an issue in brawl due to increased range, it is weird that olimar himself doesn't get armor in a pm environment but every other tether character does.
2. Pikmin grab getting jabbed away. Literally the only tether grab I know that gets hit away.
3. Neutral b not coming back after landing with him. His below avg recovery made worse for no reason. Combining that with moments where you are forced to press down b cause your pikmin went to another dimension and won't come back.
4. I have had smash attacks and aerials knocked away with a simple jab, some being fully charged. Not sure why, but extremely dumb.
Those are my main issues, now don't get me wrong, I enjoy the character, and depending on what line up I have, he is my best character, but he just seems too random (pikmin plucked) and glitchy(fall out of grabs) for me to rely on him seriously in a competitive tournament. What strategies does the oli forum have for successfully getting rid of jank pikmin lineups while not getting bodied.

 

[B.W.]

Pikmin can't get hit away when you're grabbing with them. Olimar can get hit and it messes up the grab, but Pikmin themselves are intangible, meaning nothing interacts with them. If it's a projectile or disjointed hitbox it'll go through them, if it's a hitbox with a hurtbox inside of it the opponent gets grabbed.

Olimar's recovery is pretty legit. I'm not sure what this Aerial Pluck not coming back with landing is. It doesn't return if you grab ledge though.

Numbers 1 and 4 are actual problems though.

imo just wait for 3.5 because I guess he's getting a few changes anyway.

 

[The Coach]

Do we have any idea what changes there will be to Olimar in 3.5?

 

[robosteven]

sigh

10sighs

 

[Yung Mei]

idk if yall knew, (i checked again today it works in 3.5), but if you dash at the ledge, roll into it, then tilt down in a certain angle, olimar drops off the stage and imediately catches the ledge

 

[WIDL]

RIP poison pummel (haven't played 3.5 yet, but read it). </3

 

[B.W.]

You don't need poison pummel anymore. White Side-B poisons regardless of what stage it's on now. It's fantastic.

 

[WIDL]

Oooh, did not know that. That's neat.

 

[steelguttey]

just an update

i whined and ******* alot from 3.0-->3.5 but you know what this character is still good. he still gets followups off his throws that are better than most characters in the game and not only that he has the best pivot grab in the game. he has a really good punish game, but the only nerf in terms of playstyle i see is that you cant force your opponent to approach anymore. but one thing they did buff by nerfing him per sey is that when they nerfed pikmin health, they made the concept of forcing the opponents to throw out a move to kill the pikmin and then olimar can punish by hitting them when they throw out something. pikmin throw is still good, just not as ridiculous as before. purple pikmin side-b waveland (my favorite thing ever to approach with) was kind of unchanged, but the problem is olimar is so defensive now you shouldnt be going into the offense much anyway.

if you just look at pure patch notes, olimar does look bad. but hes still good. if they gave him the buffs that they gave him and didnt nerf him at all he would be op as **** and probably high tier after more people do what ss was doing near the end of 3.0

also sorry @SiLeNtDo0m for ******** lots. take most of it back now

 

[B.W.]

It's okay, I ******* a lot too.

There's still some dumb stuff with him. I'll forever complain about the bugs that were untouched. But he's not that bad. He's also still a gimp monster. Being able to toss Ganondorf off stage with Blue at 0 and smack them three times with F-Air to make sure he's dead is fantastic.

The only other thing I hate is the limit to 2 up-Bs at a time because he has a mandatory tether.

@SiLeNtDo0m was it really so broken at 3? Hell with the new nerfs to it, keeping tether recoveries off stage is incredibly easy. And I really mean INCREDIBLY easy. It's totally viable to just edgeguard them now. Hell I don't think it'd be broken at that point to even give them unlimited because of how easy it is.

I guess another thing I wouldn't mind being tested for mandatory tethers is the option to just edgeguard mandatory tethers while giving them unlimited tethers, but if they reel in when someone is on the ledge they just fall into special fall. Also give them all a love-tap hitbox so edgeguarding them isn't as mindless anymore, but they won't get launched from the ledge like old Olimar Up-B.

I'm suggesting all this because I'd like to see tether up-Bs act a little more like normal up-Bs. I understand recovery was nerfed across the board, but in their current state these recoveries are probably among the worst out there, especially because they immediately home in on the edge. Even when we want to go on stage with it, sometimes it doesn't let us even try. They're the most predictable recoveries in the game.

I guess as an example: If Marth goes to edgeguard Mario, and Mario is close enough to Up-B back to the ledge or stage all 5 times he gets hit out of his recovery he gets to make it back. If Marth tries to edge hog Mario, but doesn't do it with the proper timing, he gets hit off the ledge, but not necessarily killed. Marth is now in a reverse gimp situation, but Mario is capable of messing up or not properly edge guarding as well and Marth also has the ability to get back to the stage should this happen.

Now if we make the match Marth vs ZSS in the same situation with ZSS off stage. If she gets swiped out of her Up-B (which wasn't even hard to do in 3.02) she only has one more chance to make it back. Marth is just holding the edge now and she Up-B's while he is and manages to tether the ledge. Unfortunately though Marth is able to either drop and attack to get her off because her path is set, or he can edge guard and swat her away for a gimp. This wouldn't be an issue except of in the case that ZSS may still be in range for a third recovery to work. Except that's too bad. She can't do it. Most any other character Marth may have had to put in more work to keep them down (usually at low damage, it'll take 3 or 4 times on a lot of characters, even in Melee), but you only have to knock Up-B tethers out of their recovery twice, and their Up-Bs don't even have a hitbox to cover them when they're in ledge range, unlike most characters.

 

[robosteven]

All of the changes unrelated to his bugs are great and the PMDT did a great job with the character.

B.W. pretty much already said it though, and I've ranted about the design of Oli's recovery enough. His recovery and bugs make him infuriating to play as. He's better than he was, but I can't mentally handle playing him competitively anymore, which is a huge pain because he's my best character in PM. All you had to do was give him a non-tether up-b and my salt would've been completely gone, but I guess that just wasn't an option or something.

Either way, thank you for making Olimar less poopy than he was before, still a blast to play as and his punish game is great.

I guess a general strategy for all Olimars now is to make sure you never ever let your opponent get you offstage ever because now it's way harder to get back onstage than before.

 

[Ultimate Sneeze]

What music do you guys recommend listening to while practicing Olimar?

 

[robosteven]

Boards of Canada.

No particular reason, I just really like Boards of Canada.

 

[B.W.]

The sounds of yourself crying.

Because you're playing Olimar.

 

[Ultimate Sneeze]

Hey, I'll have you know I sort of almost came close to beating a lower-mid level Falco in a small local. There's potential. My Up-B tether only failed me once that match.

 

[Ningildo]

I'll have you know I beat a mid-high level MK in a yearly we had a week back.

Doesn't really prove that he doesn't need bug fixes to start being viable. His damage is still real despite that, tho.

In other news, I think lylat is still godlike for oli. Helping his edgeguarding due recovering being harder there for everyone but oli and tether characters and easing Uair juggles is fun. Need more counterpick stages due people catching onto it, tho...

 

[B.W.]

Wait til your scenes get over Olimar being weird.

I was placing really well in IL with Olimar in 3.0 until everyone learned that all you have to do is jump over everything you do on the ground.

Now he's beaten by the same strats but he's worse.

I don't even think SS plays him anymore. Pretty sure I saw something recently of him using Wario instead.

 

[steelguttey]

yea ss dropped him for now. he says "they did him wrong"

 

[B.W.]

So I talk **** about this character a lot. Fact is that if you want to win, you probably shouldn't play him.

However, I do still play him. Probably because I hate myself or something. But I also want to push the character to some extent in his current form. You have to approach things much different from before... Meaning really you can't approach at all normally.

You can still ask me stuff about the character and I will try to help you if you think you enjoy pain and suffering.

 

[steelguttey]

same here. i still know a silly amount about this character cause how much i invested in him in 3.0

i would actually play this current olimar if they removed rng (without putting in seto rder) and made flower pikmin the same as flowered pikmin in 3.0 with the same knockback and everything

 

[robosteven]

I'd actually enter in bracket as an Olimar player if they fixed his recovery.

At this point that's all I'm asking for. Everything else, purple range and all, is adaptable.

 

[PootisKonga]

I play a good Olimar and he's frankly very annoying no matter my character choice lol

 

[robosteven]

He can still combo the **** out of like half the cast, but the other half of the cast is either bad matchups or really bad matchups do to their ability to capitalize on Oli's trash recovery.

I still love the character, but my god does he need work.

 

[PootisKonga]

I get grabbed and dthrown a lot