Q&A OK desu ka? - Lucas Q&A Thread

[Bill cipher3]

Here's something I like to do every now and then.

Go to the 2:23 mark. My grab game is bad, I know.

Nice. And i've heard of the 0-death footstoll can someone show me a video?

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What are some good combos on lighter and floaty characters? since i have trouble comboing them in anyway.... so i normally just spam jab and hope i can spike with B-air... although i can get Down Throw to U-air sometimes on Mewtwo... but i usually can't, and i cant get his footstool death combo on them, or just his lock combos because they fly to goddamn far... any tips on lighter/floaty characters on how to combo them?

 

[JosePollo]

Nice. And i've heard of the 0-death footstoll can someone show me a video?

What are some good combos on lighter and floaty characters? since i have trouble comboing them in anyway.... so i normally just spam jab and hope i can spike with B-air... although i can get Down Throw to U-air sometimes on Mewtwo... but i usually can't, and i cant get his footstool death combo on them, or just his lock combos because they fly to goddamn far... any tips on lighter/floaty characters on how to combo them?

My Smash Corner has an amazing starter video for Lucas combos and jab locks.

 

[Botcrazy]

I have a few probably basic questions. First off, what are some uses for PK Freeze? I mainly use it as a mixup/anticamping kind of thing (it doesn't usually hit, just bothers them), but whenever I do land a PK Freeze I have no idea what to do with them afterwards. Secondly, by using angle logic I can understand when I should use Bair spike and when I should use Dair spike, but are there any times I really should pick one over the other?

 

[JosePollo]

I have a few probably basic questions. First off, what are some uses for PK Freeze? I mainly use it as a mixup/anticamping kind of thing (it doesn't usually hit, just bothers them), but whenever I do land a PK Freeze I have no idea what to do with them afterwards. Secondly, by using angle logic I can understand when I should use Bair spike and when I should use Dair spike, but are there any times I really should pick one over the other?

It's kind of a Hail Mary play really, but you can use PKT2 to try to catch them as they're breaking out of the ice. It can net you some pretty early, flashy kills off the top. If you hit one at low percentages, just keep throwing more PK Freeze at it to rack up damage (like how Yoshi players will up smash an egged opponent to rack up damage--don't use up smash, though, for obvious reasons). If nothing else you can throw out a PK Freeze to keep up the pressure after a d-throw double nair to up air. It's a pretty situational move, but you can get a lot of reward out of it and it's pretty non-commital if you use it close enough to the ground that Lucas won't go into special fall.

Spoiler: Scrubby demonstrations

As for bair or dair, it really depends on what character you're edge guarding. Against characters with poor linear or non-offensive recovery dair is the more reliable of the two since it covers a longer window of time than bair. Dair is especially good against Rosalina, I've found. I mainly use bair to sort of protect myself as I'm trying to recover; to deter people trying to attack me off stage by threatening to meteor them if they approach. Bair can also be used off of a down throw to net some fairly early kills.

Spoiler: More scrubby demonstrations

I was like two frames away from landing that up smash when I got hit with the knee.

 

[Dizimous]

Does anyone know if Lucas' fair or bair are safe on shield?

 

[JosePollo]

Does anyone know if Lucas' fair or bair are safe on shield?

They don't auto-cancel when you're close enough to the ground to hit a shield, so that's a resounding no. Full jump dair is pretty hard to punish out of shield for most characters and provides decent shield pressure. You can cross up shields with nair by landing behind them, which forces them to waste frames by putting down their shield and turning. Nair's multi-hits are good shield pressure, too, but not actually safe.

 

[Salad :)]

HI! my first post yay!
So i was wondering if i wanted to improve with Lucas, should i learn use jablocks? i play alot of online and barely get to play offline so i am a bit discouraged to do it. Thanks!

 

[Bill cipher3]

HI! my first post yay!
So i was wondering if i wanted to improve with Lucas, should i learn use locks? i play alot of online and barely get to play offline so i am a bit discouraged to do it. Thanks!

It seems like one of his few iconic skills so yeah. ( hopefully i'll learn how to do locks too )

 

[Jacques Núanáin]

Is perfecting Lucas's PK thunder recovery a matter of practice? I'm having trouble pulling it off a 90 degrees (and higher), so straight below the ledge or under the stage. Does anyone see this as essential? Because of course, one can move to the right or left (depending on the side of the stage) and pull off the recovery far more easily. Under the stage? I'm not so sure? Usually this would only occur if both players are offstage and fighting, so a hit would retrieve his jumps yeah?

I'm rather new to Lucas, but he is so much more fun than all of my other mains.

 

[ilysm]

I have been seeing everywhere recently that any time you would normally jab with Lucas, you should probably dtilt, because they have 'similar' properties and dtilt sets up for much more. I was confused by this viewpoint because I thought they served distinct purposes. Dtilt comes out on frame 3 and lasts for two frames, while jab one comes out on frame 2 and lasts for three frames, plus the other two hits of the jab combo. I was under the impression that dtilt was better as a close-ranged poke to lead into block strings and hopefully land followups, while jab combo was more of a panic-button attack to catch slow opponents or a wall to stop quick but sloppy approaches, which doesn't work with dtilt because the hitbox is so low. Have I been using these moves wrong?

 

[alexthepony]

how do you smash di out of lucas's nair

 

[MrWhYYZ]

how do you smash di out of lucas's nair

Unless you play Jiggs you're not getting out, following DI is easy.

 

[Salad :)]

Unless you play Jiggs you're not getting out, following DI is easy.

So even againt fox, he cant get out of it?

 

[PKBeam]

the only way you can get out of nair is if you get naired at low % and the lucas is moving fast enough. then the autolink doesn't keep you in it and you can fall out.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

So even againt fox, he cant get out of it?

Because he's a fastfaller you can even N-air loop xN Fox at 0% if you have rage yourself, which is awesome! Free 40%
The only way to get out of n-air is like PKBeam said, if the Lucas player ****s up.
Infact, my sparring partner used to try to smash DI down with Falcon but that only resulted in D-throw N-air-> Up-air FF, N-air Footstool. So he stopped doing that. If anything DI'ing Up and then left or right gives the best results.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

How should i deal with wario's bike? I have trouble dealing with it and avoiding it when its used.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Use any aerial (N-air, Z-air D-air are your best bet) to hit Wario of his bike. Also PK-fire in the neutral works really well because it instabreaks his bike.

 

[busken]

How reliable is the down throw n-air footstool combo 0-death. My smash corner said its inescapable but it wont work against very floaty characters like jiggs twice. Anyway, has anybody been able to get consistently? I find trying it on the computer is best?

 

[MrWhYYZ]

D-throw N-air FS D-air isn't that great imo. After N-air they can DI all directions and then again left or right after the footstool. After D-throw they can only DI straight above you or in front of Lucas so they have less options to mix you up. Imo, 8 damage more isn't worth the harder footstool combo.
It doesn't work on Greninja and Fox probably because they're fastfallers.

I've gotten semi consistant. I usually go for the D-throw FS D-air when midweights are at 35/40% I find that the easiest percentage to react to their DI.
The lower their percentage, the harder it will be too follow them because you have less time.
If you want the learn the footstool combo you should first practice it on a higher percentage and than gradually lower it the more you feel comfortable with it.

 

[busken]

I'm here so many different opinions. I can't wait to get Lucas and try it out for myself.

 

[JosePollo]

I have been seeing everywhere recently that any time you would normally jab with Lucas, you should probably dtilt, because they have 'similar' properties and dtilt sets up for much more. I was confused by this viewpoint because I thought they served distinct purposes. Dtilt comes out on frame 3 and lasts for two frames, while jab one comes out on frame 2 and lasts for three frames, plus the other two hits of the jab combo. I was under the impression that dtilt was better as a close-ranged poke to lead into block strings and hopefully land followups, while jab combo was more of a panic-button attack to catch slow opponents or a wall to stop quick but sloppy approaches, which doesn't work with dtilt because the hitbox is so low. Have I been using these moves wrong?

That's the thing though. Jab is his panic button, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best option. The 1-frame difference between jab 1 and down tilt is negligible and, while jab will get the opponent off your back if you catch them with it, they can also expect it, shield, and punish the endlag. With down tilt you're only commiting to 15 frames of action and with more effective range due to how far the attack reaches (the farthest hitbox extends past his foot, effectively making it disjointed), which makes it rather safe on shield. Not only that, but while jab only reliably leads to jab, down tilt can combo into many other things.

So yeah, jab is never a bad option as a panic button, but you should get used to always just going for down tilt instead, since 99% of the time it's just a better option over-all. If Lucas's jab could kill or wasn't such a huge commitment (even jab 1 and 2 aren't interruptible until frame 20, meaning most opponents can choose a counter option if you don't follow up with jab 3) then there'd be a reason to use it over down tilt.

 

[JosePollo]

Not a question, but a small observation. Beefy Smash Doods' fairly recent video on how to survive getting launched at high percentages got me thinking about what move Lucas can do to give him those extra percentages of survivability.

He spins during nair, which extends his body horizontally at one point, which means it can potentially push his hurtboxes into the blast zone. Fair pushes him closer to the blast zone since he leans back while kicking his leg out, so that doesn't help. Like nair, back air also extends his body horizontally, but he kicKS behind him, so that could work for throws that turn hin around (e.g. Ness's back throw, Falcon's back throw). He leans his head back for up air, then brings it forward, which means he can't use it facing forward OR backward. Dair is really the only one that gets him out of tumble without pushing him into the blast zone, but doesn't actually move his hurtboxes away. Zair also extends his body horizontally, so that doesn't work.

As for specials, PSI Magnet out of hitstun pushes him towards his momentum, so that'll just get you killed in situations where you could survive by just doing nothing. I guess if you do a b-reversed magnet you can potentially save yourself, but failing to reverse it will most likely get you killed. Same goes for PK Fire.

I think reversed PSI Magnet and PK Fire are the answer, but those require plenty of precision to execute without SD'ing by accident. As for surviving off the top, dair pushes his hurtboxes downward ever so slightly, but I don't think it matters since hitstun from vertical launch almost always ends after you start to descend. Anyone have any better ideas?

 

[busken]

Pretty irrelevant to me. Most characters gain virtually nothing from that and Lucas is one.

What do you think about the n-air footstool set-up JosePollo

My smash corner said its inescapable

 

[JosePollo]

Pretty irrelevant to me. Most characters gain virtually nothing from that and Lucas is one.

What do you think about the n-air footstool set-up JosePollo

My smash corner said its inescapable

It's guaranteed within a certain percent range (weight dependent) and if you read the opponent's DI. It's certainly not hard to pull of with a bit of practice. I personally find it easier to do than footstool>magnet stall>sour fair

 

[busken]

What percent range?

Also what is Lucas's most viable combo? I've seen dthrow nair nair uair and it does 35%! Does that actually work?!?

 

[MrWhYYZ]

What percent range?

Also what is Lucas's most viable combo? I've seen dthrow nair nair uair and it does 35%! Does that actually work?!?

0-30% on lightweights
0-50% on mediumweights
0-85% on heavyweights

D-throw N-air, N-air U-air is DIable but only up. If they DI any other direction you can hit them.
D-throw Nair -> N-air, Uair, Dair is guaranteed, Although N-air D-air is really strict.

Also on certain characters (Ganon, Fox if you have rage) you can shorthop N-air loop them for 40/50% damage.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Was Lucas's nair changed so it now autolinks? The opponent is sent in one direction rather than a random one whenever i use it now.

 

[PKBeam]

no just the initial 4 hits were buffed in damage.
this may have had an effect on the knockback.
the knockback was always consistent, though.

 

[JosePollo]

Was Lucas's nair changed so it now autolinks? The opponent is sent in one direction rather than a random one whenever i use it now.

Nahh it still has that weird 367° angle. Rather than push the opponent in the direction you're going (a la 366°), it pulls the opponent to the center of the hitbox. So... even if you're going down, if the opponent is below you the angle will pull your target upward. You can see this effect a lot better if you go into training mode and set the CPU's damage to 999%. They start rocketing in every direction every time they get hit due to the shaking effect during hitlag lol

 

[JosePollo]

no just the initial 4 hits were buffed in damage.
this may have had an effect on the knockback.
the knockback was always consistent, though.

It's a very minute effect on the initial hits' knockback. Due to the angle of the hitbox, the pulling effect is actually stronger and helps the hits connect better when you're not moving in any direction. Knockback on the final hit wasn't affected outside of the difference the extra 4% (or 3/2/1%, depending on how late into the first hitbox you connect the attack) damage prior to it would make.

 

[EmpireCrusher203]

Are there anyone drills and practices I can preform in Training to work on my Recovery, specifically, when using PK Thunder. My current drill is throwing myself off and trying to hit myself with the PK Thunder with my eyes closed. I want to see if there is anything better.

 

[JosePollo]

Are there anyone drills and practices I can preform in Training to work on my Recovery, specifically, when using PK Thunder. My current drill is throwing myself off and trying to hit myself with the PK Thunder with my eyes closed. I want to see if there is anything better.

What I like to practice is angling myself just so in a way that it looks like I'm going for the ledge, but I go just above it. It's actually really unsafe because a smart opponent will usually hold shield at the ledge, but it gives you another mix-up option. Try to learn to sweetspot the ledge from above the stage for when you're fighting opponents that like to follow you off-stage (which they shouldn't even be doing, since it tends to backfire on them a lot of the time, in my experience). Practice your wall bounces for times when you get taken to stages with walls (Duck Hunt, Castle Seige, a lot of Omgas).

Outside of that, practice using magnet whenever you have forward momentum so that you can get close to the ledge without having to spend your second jump. You should avoid ever having to use PKT2 to recover.

 

[EmpireCrusher203]

I've tried it in Training, doesn't work that well. PSI Magnet does stop my movement done though. What I did was, once I was off stage, I would jump once, using PSI Magnet, then jump again. By that time I'm close enough to ledge and I use my tether. It works but I could be spiked very easily. And if I mess up, I'll take the risk and use PK Thunder. Thanks!

 

[trombonophone99]

Who are a few high-level lucas players I could look up?

 

[CURRY]

https://youtu.be/uKRuW0a7Zfw?t=13m54s
https://youtu.be/uKRuW0a7Zfw?t=13m1s

What the heck???
Throughout Izaw's video, it shows that the LB Blade Beam has transcendent priority.

Why does PK Fire clank with LB Blade Beam if LB Blade Beam is supposed to be transcendent? Does PK Fire in this game have item priority?

 

[Karna]

iirc, the PK Fire lightning bolt actually possesses a hurtbox, so it beats/clanks with pretty much everything. It'll even stop invincible moves like PK Thunder2 from Ness.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Does anybody know if someone has the framedata for Lucas's moves on hit?
I have them on shield but I want to have them on hit as well to get some misconceptions out of the air. (Like Lucas's Up-tilt for example comboing into it self which it doesn't because Up-tilt is +1.

 

[Kyuu]

Alright so, i've been trying to pick up Lucas and I have a few questions :

1. How should Lucas use his Z-Air? As a spacing tool? And what is his bread-n-butter combos out of Z-Air/PKFire?
2. What are Lucas' main differences from Ness? Can't seem to find anything on the subject.
3. Who does Lucas counter to most?

 

[SpenyEX]

Does the DThrow>Nair>Footstool>Dair>Jab Lock and DThrow>Nair>Footstool>Fair>Jab Lock still work after the patch?