OHKO and Evasion Abuse in 5th Gen

[ss118]

For those who have been playing on Beta Server, they have been doing a huge overhaul and everything has essentially been unbanned... and now these two have taken the stage to be the next in-question.

So feel free to post your sets abusing the lack of bans over these moves:

Guillotine
Horn Drill
Fissure
Sheer Cold

Double Team
Minimize

I would post more but I gtg

 

[kirbyraeg]

oh lawd they unbanned those?

I see minimize being abused and subsequently getting evasion banned again very quickly.

Double Team Baton Passing could be fun too.

Gravity boosts the acc. of one-hit kill moves, a set on something fast with a ohko move might work alright if you feel like leaving it up to chance. Aiming Mark gives a guaranteed hit on something with a move???

 

[Wave⁂]

Minimize boosting Evastion by +2 is ****ing ridiculous.

Lock On Sheer Cold Articuno is ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think either will surface as a top tier tactic. I would rather them banned under the premise that it makes the game less luck oriented.

 

[Circa]

Minimize Blissey.

I don't give a **** what else the set has, because it doesn't really matter. It's Blissey and it has Minimize. Although I guess I would like to point out that running Healing Heart would be amazing with Minimize. It gets everything it really needs anyway (just run Softboiled instead of Wish)

Minimize Clefable.

Once again, set shouldn't matter. Just give it Magic Guard, some annoying support moves, and bam. You have yourself a sexy *****.

Minimize Drifblim.

Puff puff pass.

Minimize Muk.

Run it on the standard Curse set, using Minimize over...probably his Poison Jab, and it could get interesting. He's pretty bulky on the special side, whether people believe it or not, so it could be decent. Plus I love Muk. <333 Hooray.

Minimize Starmie.

Probably not very good, but I guess it could be a really annoying sweeper, considering its already pretty legit Speed and power. Just run it over Rapid Spin.

Minimize Shandera.

CM set just got REALLY gay.

Posting sets is lame. Basically all you have to do is take any of their standard sets, put Minimize on it in the position you don't need the most, and go.

 

[Wave⁂]

I think the lesson here is that Minimize makes everything better.

 

[Gates]

Shadow Punch Iron Fist Ghost/Ground becomes a lot better in a metagame with CM Minimize Shandera.

So does No Guard anything.

btw, does Machamp learn any OHKO moves?

 

[kirbyraeg]

I don't think GF is that stupid.

Not quite.

 

[T-block]

It wouldn't necessarily break absolutely everything. Maybe Stomp becomes more common?

Not saying it's a good idea in this case, but keep in mind that the metagame will change to adapt to the presence of these moves.

 

[CT Chia]

I have gotten hit with a dreadful baton pass team that passed in evasion, lol it was awful. however there are it's counters. moves that always hit, sending in a ditto or something so you have the same advantage, etc.

i sort of agree with umbreon. not having them makes it less luck oriented, but they dont really seem bannable per se. now it comes down to as whats justifiable for a ban

but w/e i currently have a minimizer on my team lol

 

[*JuriHan*]

welcome to Nintendo's and Japanese meta game.

In Gen 4 lots of Japanese players enjoyed using sheer cold and horn drill Lapras. I just woke up and didnt have my coffee, ill think of more **** later.

And double team or evasion on Blissey is scary with toxic.

Spoiler

I used it before in gen 3 and early gen 4 before I even felt bad using it lol

I still think calm mind Blissey is the best and overlooked. I need to test it in Gen 5 though but i'd imagine it would still be viable.


edit: So I take quick claw is legal too?

 

[Deleted member]

It wouldn't necessarily break absolutely everything. Maybe Stomp becomes more common?

Not saying it's a good idea in this case, but keep in mind that the metagame will change to adapt to the presence of these moves.

does a population change constitute as a metagame shift?

 

[cutter]

Whatever happened to using Haze? Seems like an excellent way to bust up Baton Pass teams, or just any stat-changing moves in general.

 

[Wave⁂]

That aren't many good Haze users. There's basically just Weezing and Vaporeon. Weezing sucks. Vaporeon has better things to do,

Actually, Weezing with Flamethrower kind of beats SD Doryuuzu.

 

[Kofu]

Desukaan can use it well, as well, and I'd imagine that Crobat could use it sometimes, too.

Quagsire gets a special mention, since with Unaware it ignores all stat changes except for Speed, allowing it to most likely get a Haze off without a hitch.

 

[Circa]

Erufuun gets Double Team. Too bad it'll hardly ever find time to use it.

Well it can, but it's a huge game of prediction, which really sucks.

 

[Fuelbi]

Shadow Punch Iron Fist Ghost/Ground becomes a lot better in a metagame with CM Minimize Shandera.

So does No Guard anything.

btw, does Machamp learn any OHKO moves?

iirc he learns Sheer Cold or something of the sort

 

[Moozle]

iirc he learns Sheer Cold or something of the sort

Machamp definitely doesn't get Sheer Cold.

I faced someone who used mind reader (I think that's what it was called) and sheer cold articuno; it was really stupid. Also, i've seen some people use Quick Claw so I assume it's being allowed right now.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Doesn't Lock On/Mind Reader/all that stuff like that only work if your opponent doesn't switch?

Telekinesis on the other hand...that could be dangerous.

 

[Kofu]

Machamp definitely doesn't get Sheer Cold.

I faced someone who used mind reader (I think that's what it was called) and sheer cold articuno; it was really stupid. Also, i've seen some people use Quick Claw so I assume it's being allowed right now.

He was being sarcastic lol

And Mind Reader + Sheer Cold is more or less a PHaze with a chance of KOing.

Doesn't Lock On/Mind Reader/all that stuff like that only work if your opponent doesn't switch?

Telekinesis on the other hand...that could be dangerous.

Correct.

 

[Wave⁂]

Mind Reader has 40 PP, and like 200 PP with PP Ups. That's a TON of Spikes and Stealth Rock damage if you switch,

 

[Kofu]

Mind Reader has 5 PP, that's like 8 with PP Ups and not a whole lot of Spikes and Stealth Rock damage if you switch,

lol

(Actually, I assume you checked Veekun? For some reason it's listed there as having 40, but it's actually 5) (Smogon has it listed as 40, as well. 5 seems more correct to me, considering that it's just a version of Lock-on)

Just checked in-game, it's 5.

 

[Wave⁂]

That's much better. Whew.

In retrospect it doesn't really matter since OHKO moves have 5 PP, IIRC

 

[Riddle]

edit: So I take quick claw is legal too?

What? Quick claw has never been banned afaik...

 

[kirbyraeg]

It hasn't.

Quick Claw lead Machamp. Because lum berry is for ******* who don't use Primeape on sleep leads.

Or for that matter using all-Fighting types and taking out their ghost with Guts Heracross.

 

[Deleted member]

the only articuno worth using is CB ice shard.

>_>

 

[Wrath`]

So if you go to Beta, you can no longer check off OHKO Clause and Evasion Clause anymore? Or is it just off by default instead of on by default.

 

[E123-omega]

Erufuun gets Double Team. Too bad it'll hardly ever find time to use it.

Well it can, but it's a huge game of prediction, which really sucks.

Pretty much everything get double team.

 

[Circa]

Pretty much everything get double team.

I realize this, and that wasn't my point at all. The entire point was centered around the fact that Erufuun could successfully utilize it. I stated that Erufuun gets it because some people just may not have considered the fact that it gets it, and it makes for a nice opener to the rest of my statement anyway.

But yeah. Erufuun becomes extremely destructive if you are able to get in a couple Double Teams. Especially if you've managed to lay down a layer or two of TSpikes. But like I said, getting the Double Team won't be easy.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

iirc he learns Sheer Cold or something of the sort

Machamp and Sheer Cold.

I can definitely see Erufuun being extremely abusive of Double Team, if it gets multiple sets up. Leech Seed + Substitute, combined with an early setup of entry hazards (especially Stealth Rock) will really make it painful to deal with. There's phazing, but ehh. I don't think that's as reliable of a method?

 

[Wave⁂]

Why would I use Erufuun when I can use Sub / Protect / Taunt / EQ Poison Heal Gliscor? Bulky as ****, fastest Taunt you'll see short of Aerodactyl.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Or floatzel. :D

 

[ss118]

Or Crobat. Or the mischevious heart Taunt users.

 

[UltiMario]

I'd make a Minimize team just to **** with People, but being sorta banned from Beta makes that hard.

 

[Hobobloke]

Been using a generic Clefable with Minimise, Cosmic Power, Toxic, and Seismic Toss. That **** wins games.

Lock-On, Sheer Cold Articuno was pretty underwheming.

 

[mood4food77]

doesn't articuno learn minimize?

lock-on
sheer cold
minimize
roost

really obnoxious set?

 

[Wave⁂]

Loses to switching. Also Articuno doesn't get Minimize.

 

[mood4food77]

no status evasion...oh well

it was worth a shot
i just thought that in gen 1, almost everything learned minimize and it carried over

 

[UltiMario]

Machamp learned Fissure in Gen I.

You see my point here?

 

[mood4food77]

yes i do....i'm sorry