Yeah, as far as the current matchups go, MK has no counters, just even matchups... every time a "counter" shows up, it's only because people aren't used to dealing w/ them/playing vs them.
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Oh dear lord, Overswarm has been given a trial by the gods
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
Nitrix
Smash Ace
Vidjo will be a toughy. Good luck OS! Make us proud 
Why are people still posting as if this hasn't happened yet?
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
Yeah.... *sigh*
At least none of the MK's I have to deal with are of this caliber. They're more cookie-cutter, thank God.
Hopefully you'll wake up tomorrow morning with some burning new insight into the matchup left in your brain. More likely, MK is just going to continue to win, and win often.
At least none of the MK's I have to deal with are of this caliber. They're more cookie-cutter, thank God.
Hopefully you'll wake up tomorrow morning with some burning new insight into the matchup left in your brain. More likely, MK is just going to continue to win, and win often.
You realize the last three tournaments that I have had, I have lost to two metaknights on all but one ocassion(when I lost to a ddd). Im tired of this ****. Ive actually been driven to the point where I picked up snake today for one match. Its rediculous. I really dont know how you do it OS. But Ive given up on Rob v MKs :[.
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
I think you mindgamed yourself.
TeeVee
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,570
Seriously, I bet you can go to about 30 different character boards and hear the same exact thing, "I've given up on ____ vs MKs". He's broken and I don't understand why he isn't banned yet. Months into the game there still isn't a single CP, and the number on meta mains is growing, and isn't slowing down.
yungunr2
Smash Cadet
The moment meta gets a solid counter is when brawl will return to normalcy but seeing as he is like god tier i dont see it happening soon. good luck OS with all those mks
but seeing as he is like god tier i dont see it happening soon. good luck OS with all those mks
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
He's not banned for the same reason that a lot of people don't think the no-tripping hack will fly. Because, at their core, people don't want to have to change the game. If the game has to be changed to play, why are we playing it? And if it doesn't have to be changed.... well, it doesn't have to be changed.
I don't think MK should be banned, but at the same time, I don't know what other options there are. It's more likely that he's just plain superior to every other character than that we just haven't found "the counter." It's more likely that no counter exists. That sucks, but completely banning a character is unlikely.
At the same time, I'm not exactly playing DSFs, so on my level the matchup isn't broken. The advantages of not being a pro....
I don't think MK should be banned, but at the same time, I don't know what other options there are. It's more likely that he's just plain superior to every other character than that we just haven't found "the counter." It's more likely that no counter exists. That sucks, but completely banning a character is unlikely.
At the same time, I'm not exactly playing DSFs, so on my level the matchup isn't broken. The advantages of not being a pro....
TeeVee
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,570
The fact that your bracket was mk,mk,mk,gaw,mk is a little rediculous. The meta mains are growing in numbers daily. If something doesn't happen soon with mk, EVERYONE is going to start maining/secondarying him.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
MK isn't literally broken in the sense that he's absolutely unbeatable, so it's unlikely he'd ever be banned. Overpowered, maybe even unhealthy for the game in that he's 50/50 or better against literally every character in the game and is strong on every stage so there's never any disadvantage to being him? Yeah. But it's never impossible to beat him. Unless you're Olimar.
I suppose our best bet as ROB players, if we're still going to dedicate ourselves to this matchup, is to be better on all the lame-*** CPs that aren't banned at the tournament in question. (e.g. rofa's had Mansion, Pipes, Green Hill Zone unbanned) Where'd you take 'em OS? I got knocked out quickly, played some friendlies downstairs and left early so I certainly wasn't paying attention. :/
Of course, the biggest problem is that you have to win twice so you still have to beat them off the bat or on their own CP...
I suppose our best bet as ROB players, if we're still going to dedicate ourselves to this matchup, is to be better on all the lame-*** CPs that aren't banned at the tournament in question. (e.g. rofa's had Mansion, Pipes, Green Hill Zone unbanned) Where'd you take 'em OS? I got knocked out quickly, played some friendlies downstairs and left early so I certainly wasn't paying attention. :/
Of course, the biggest problem is that you have to win twice so you still have to beat them off the bat or on their own CP...
Samuelson
Smash Lord
I am starting to dislike Metakawk more and more.
indianunit
Smash Journeyman
It's funny because this is why I know of some tournaments that are trying to solve this problem by creating a different tournament. It's a tournament where it's a best 2 out of 3 but for each round of 2 or 3 matches you MUST pick a different character per match. I actually like the idea because it creates variety and prevents a metaknight from owning every single match in a round. Just thought I'd put it out there that this might be a good idea.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
There should be MK-only tournies and MK-free tournies. MK really is in a different league than every other character.
Nintendevil
Smash Ace
Yeah Snake and MK that's it.
GaW is predictable after a while. Don't laser any MK that uses SH SideB, because they will ge there before you. Roll.
Still tough though, good luck.
GaW is predictable after a while. Don't laser any MK that uses SH SideB, because they will ge there before you. Roll.
Still tough though, good luck.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
MK counterpicks really aren't that tough for him; they just limit him.
I 3 stocked Vidjo on Pipes last time I played. He then practiced it a lot and two stocked me on it there. He got me to 60%, then baited me to the top of the pipe, and gimped me with the up+b because I was stupid. From that point on it was a lost game.
I 3 stocked Vidjo on Pipes last time I played. He then practiced it a lot and two stocked me on it there. He got me to 60%, then baited me to the top of the pipe, and gimped me with the up+b because I was stupid. From that point on it was a lost game.
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
No, Snake isn't even close to MK. Overused, definitely, but he isn't 50/50 or better on every stage, against every character. ROB, for example, has good chances against him.
*sigh*
HugS
Smash Champion
LoL, the "snake phase" was very legitimate, I just can't think of a single good snake that lived in the midwest during the phase. I guess you dodged the plague, just like you were dodging the MK problem for a bit before Vidjo came around.
Right now, you're in a legitimate MK phase. A month ago you were bragging about MK being one of your favorite and most winnable match ups. Now you're finally running into some decent MK's and realizing the problems. It's still just a phase though. MK is the best, but he can be dealt with.
Nintendevil
Smash Ace
no, were talking about MK's mathcups.
So far the chart says MK's are Snake and DK, and Snakes are DK and ROB. And even still, ROB's matchup against Snake isn't all that uneven, ROB has a slight advantage.
SLAYERCoLdKiLr
Smash Journeyman
I dont get the point of this thread. Not trying to hate right now, but I mean this thread is an attention getter. If you make this thread, then win, you are showing that you beat all these over powered MK's and are a better person for it. If you lose, you prove that MK can't be beat by your Rob and you get peoples sympathy for a huge uphill battle. It's a win win on your part.
Like...the tournament results will speak for themselves, you don't have to make this thread. If every person fighting metaknights made a thread like this, it would really be annoying and I would gain less respect for the players that did.
Like...the tournament results will speak for themselves, you don't have to make this thread. If every person fighting metaknights made a thread like this, it would really be annoying and I would gain less respect for the players that did.
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
Ignore this.
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
Are you talking about IvanEva's chart? 'Cause that chart is..... ok. Don't rely on it, by any means. Even going by the chart MK only has 5 matchups without a clear advantage, while Snake has 10. So yeah, Snake is not as dominant of a character as MK. He's good, but he's got plenty of characters that can beat him; MK has far fewer characters with a chance of beating him, and they have less of advantage on him than Snake's counters have on him.
And while ROB doesn't have a huge advantage over Snake, it's at least 60/40. Probably closer to 65/35, from my play experience. That's pretty uneven. 60/40 is still ROB being 1.5 times as likely to win.
So, uh, why does a thread have to have a way to make him look bad? Your first paragraph is silly.
It's true that if every person fighting MK's made a thread like this we would get pissed. However, this thread is nice for a couple reasons. One, it's the ROB community supporting each other, which I consider positive. Two, this isn't any old ROB. This is perhaps the best ROB out there (though a couple other names might be able to give him a run). If the best ROB out there says something, it's pretty wise to at least give it a listen. If the best ROB out there is unhappy about facing a gauntlet of MK's, it means something. So maybe we can take this and learn from it, both in game and in the metagame.
I'm not a competitive smasher (yet), but having SO many MKs in tourney will give everyone ridiculous amounts of MK practice. The other part of this is that people will have less practice against other underused chars. Eventually mains of underused chars (w/ lots of MK practice) will start winning tourneys with MK mains(who have no practice outside of MK dittos).
Is this a possibility?
Is this a possibility?
Sudai
Stuff here
No because MK just does the same **** against everyone.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
We have a winner!
There are two things MK needs to change in each matchup:
edgeguarding
defense against enemy's approach
He never has to change how he approaches.
Sudai
Stuff here
He doesn't even really have to change edge guarding against 50-60% of the cast. Only people he has to change it for is people with weird up-bs like DDD, Snake, and ROB
TKD
Smash Lord
Hahahah, banning MK would be AWESOME! It won't happen though.
Falco beats MK. I've had trouble against Falco players that aren't very good, so imagine if Falco started getting overused. OU = More players maining him, including GOOD ones. Falco is generally MK's light counter.
Now for the OTHER top tier character. Snake. They say Snake beats MK. They also say MK and Snake are both as good (the best). But Snake is so much harder to play, it takes longer to get as good with Snake as MK players get in little time.
And finally, the counter. Yoshi beats MK in FD and Smashville. You have to know the matchup though, I once tried Yoshi and didn't even try to remember how the matchup's played, and I self destructed a couple times.
So MK has two characters good against him. Only two. Which are light counters, not heavy ones. It's sad if you don't like either of them, because, well, they're only two! And the counter...it's only one!! What if you don't like Yoshi? I'm not in the mood to learn how to play as him.
Going FD against MK with a character that can KO upwards early is good too.
Meta = Metagame. He's too good.
EDIT: Donkey Kong works too, according to the DK threads. Maybe it's 60/40 like Falco, but I don't take that as a fact yet.
Falco beats MK. I've had trouble against Falco players that aren't very good, so imagine if Falco started getting overused. OU = More players maining him, including GOOD ones. Falco is generally MK's light counter.
Now for the OTHER top tier character. Snake. They say Snake beats MK. They also say MK and Snake are both as good (the best). But Snake is so much harder to play, it takes longer to get as good with Snake as MK players get in little time.
And finally, the counter. Yoshi beats MK in FD and Smashville. You have to know the matchup though, I once tried Yoshi and didn't even try to remember how the matchup's played, and I self destructed a couple times.
So MK has two characters good against him. Only two. Which are light counters, not heavy ones. It's sad if you don't like either of them, because, well, they're only two! And the counter...it's only one!! What if you don't like Yoshi? I'm not in the mood to learn how to play as him.
Going FD against MK with a character that can KO upwards early is good too.
Meta = Metagame. He's too good.
EDIT: Donkey Kong works too, according to the DK threads. Maybe it's 60/40 like Falco, but I don't take that as a fact yet.
BBQ°
Smash Champion
I would say the MK vs DK matchup is 55:45 in DK's favor.
It'll probably change to MK's favor once people find out how to fight DK though.
It'll probably change to MK's favor once people find out how to fight DK though.
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
Yeah. MK's game is just so good he rarely has to change it. That's the real reason he's had troubles with DK, imo; 'cause DK is the only character that can counter MK's usual b*******. Soon as the MK realizes how to get past that, I'm sure things'll be back to normal.
SLAYERCoLdKiLr
Smash Journeyman
What does Rob need to change in each matchup? Cause i was reading in your other thread that someone asked how to deal with a diddy, and you said camp it until ect.... then another character you said camp it until ect.....
Mr.E
Smash Lord
Well, that's a pretty simple answer. ROB, and some other generally campy characters, are forced to do a 180 and be very aggressive against characters that outcamp them. ROB pretty much has to camp Dedede to death so as to avoid being CGed up close and put into edgeguarding situations. ROB is forced to be aggressive against Pit, as Pit can outcamp our robotic overlord and will win if both characters try to chip away at range.
MK never has to change what he does because he's generally very aggressive regardless of the matchup. Everything about his game, from the lagless attacking to his great gimping ability, implore him to play heavy pressure. To say he never has to change how he approaches isn't quite right (e.g. MK can't space at tipper range against characters with better range, Tornado is better in some matchups than others) but MK never has to radically change what he does.
MK never has to change what he does because he's generally very aggressive regardless of the matchup. Everything about his game, from the lagless attacking to his great gimping ability, implore him to play heavy pressure. To say he never has to change how he approaches isn't quite right (e.g. MK can't space at tipper range against characters with better range, Tornado is better in some matchups than others) but MK never has to radically change what he does.
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
Its amazing when you switch suddenly from very defensive and camping to very aggressive. It catchs them sooo offguard and sometimes you can get a stock off of it.
Doggalina
Smash Lord
I've played a Meta with my DK on numerous occasions, and I can assure you that DK DOES NOT counter MK. DK can do well and win, but MK can wreck him with a healthy helping of tornado and shuttle loops.
MK is actually one of the reasons I picked up Melee again. I should be thanking him.
MK is actually one of the reasons I picked up Melee again. I should be thanking him.
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
there is no counter for mk, dk simply keeps him away a with tilts and spaced smash attacks. dk can do well against mk on certain situations (observing and learning from bum's matches) and has a good ground game and the power to take mk out, but mk can still beat the **** out of him like everyone else.
good player+Metaknight=bad news
and that my friends, is called a equation lol.
good player+Metaknight=bad news
and that my friends, is called a equation lol.
QUIVO
Smash Master
VIdjo's MK vs my TL was hell...
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
well said
oddly i have played my friends mk and i somehow managed to kill him at 63% with a nair (not a fresh move at the moment). i play defensively then offense against mks where i spam lasers, gyros and tilts until they decide to roll behind so that i down smash usually leave a gyro hanging on the floor so that i can glide toss across the stage. at the start of the game this alone in one match up i had 7% to his 104%.
but yea i wanna inform you guys that m2k and others believe rob has the slight advantage against mk but we know thats a lie
Overuse of a character is not a viable reason to for a ban -_-. And as to your comment about all the character boards complaining about the matchup, the difference is that ROB is ACTUALLY at a significant disadvantage now compared to many other characters v mk. I predict there is going to be a rush of MKs just like there was a rush of snakes and then hopefully it will slightly balance out.
btw OS is there a bracket for this posted on the boards, and how did you place?