Official Zelda Moveset (NEW MOVE!** MAGMA BEAT CONFIRMED!)

[im just peachy]

hi ! amazing thread I've always had Zelda in my top 5 characters to play with even in Melee.
I'd love to see her down grab magma beat you say? Is there any footage or pictures of it?
I made a thread just like this for peach, check it out if anyone's interested


Edit: just saw it from the post above it looks great !

 

[Toadallstar2]

idk where to post this, but in the new Smash video announcing the new characters, they shown Zelda at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ytrX0wweA
It's neat I guess, anything new here? idk, Nayrus looked good.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

idk where to post this, but in the new Smash video announcing the new characters, they shown Zelda at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ytrX0wweA
It's neat I guess, anything new here? idk, Nayrus looked good.

I kind of wished she was in the actual cut scene, she hasn't been in one yet and it's a shame. She also used the phantom, I think right before it cut away.

 

[Katy Parry]

I kind of wished she was in the actual cut scene, she hasn't been in one yet and it's a shame. She also used the phantom, I think right before it cut away.

She uses the Phantom and gets Blasted in the face with lightning. :/

 

[Katty Shepherd]

She uses the Phantom and gets Blasted in the face with lightning. :/

At least she was in the video.

 

[Toadallstar2]

Phantom nullified Villager's Side-B. And then she stood there and took that electric attack from the new girl. She could have had time for Nayrus. Maybe it's just me, but that ending lag was minimal after Nayrus, impressive.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

About getting hit by Robin, I think it's just a bad luck situation where the phantom disappeared right before being able to absorb the hit.

But that Nayru's love looked good.

 

[Katy Parry]

About getting hit by Robin, I think it's just a bad luck situation where the phantom disappeared right before being able to absorb the hit.

But that Nayru's love looked good.

It did, and its nice to know it takes priority, so she can follow up with a quick attack.

 

[BJN39]

What kinda bothers me in that clip is that Zelda OBVIOUSLY could've dodged or even jumped before getting zapped.
Also, note how the lowest charge level phantom could take Villager's Gyroid (11%) and still be living. That means it could take a decent amount of this game's projectiles before being neutralized... So it seems, at least. Combine that with the fact that it can shield you while it's pretty much slashing. That sounds nice IMO defense wise.

Also, my secret Zelda prayer circle prayer has been answered; Nayru's Love's crystal actually pretty much visually covers her again! It also looks like the spiky tornado crystals cover a larger vertical area around her. I wonder if the move could possibly, possibly have better hit-boxes.

 

[Toadallstar2]

What kinda bothers me in that clip is that Zelda OBVIOUSLY could've dodged or even jumped before getting zapped.
Also, note how the lowest charge level phantom could take Villager's Gyroid (11%) and still be living. That means it could take a decent amount of this game's projectiles before being neutralized... So it seems, at least. Combine that with the fact that it can shield you while it's pretty much slashing. That sounds nice IMO defense wise.

Also, my secret Zelda prayer circle prayer has been answered; Nayru's Love's crystal actually pretty much visually covers her again! It also looks like the spiky tornado crystals cover a larger vertical area around her. I wonder if the move could possibly, possibly have better hit-boxes.

Of course she could have dodged or even reflected that attack... But they were showing off that new character's abilities. So it's not a big deal. What is significant is that we know she could have dodged.
Speculating here but I think Phantom would be more beneficial for absorbing an attack without the ending lag or duration it takes for Nayrus to finish. Plus, for some projectiles it wouldn't matter if it was reflected or absorbed, and others could be great if reflected. Diddy's peanuts reflected wouldn't hit him probably so Phantom absorbing it and Zelda rushing in immediately might be better. While Samus' lazor beam or missiles is a good reflection choice. Just thinking here. I'm happy.

 

[Katy Parry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3CugGrHnF0

This video shows off some great Zelda gameplay. Shows her Upsmash catching bowser on the far end and it still manages to keep him locked in, and all her fsmashes seem to push them forward into the attack.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3CugGrHnF0

This video shows off some great Zelda gameplay. Shows her Upsmash catching bowser on the far end and it still manages to keep him locked in, and all her fsmashes seem to push them forward into the attack.

Dat kick at 2:56! o_o

I know that Rosalina is a Lightweight, but damn, that knockback!

 

[Katy Parry]

Dat kick at 2:56! o_o

I know that Rosalina is a Lightweight, but damn, that knockback!

Yeah, at a very low percent, too!

 

[L2 Sentinel]

idk where to post this, but in the new Smash video announcing the new characters, they shown Zelda at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ytrX0wweA
It's neat I guess, anything new here? idk, Nayrus looked good.

I'm not sure, but Nayru's Love appears to be larger than it was in the Smash Fest demo. If this is true, it could also mean she has received other buffs as well. It just goes to show that it's too early to declare Zelda bottom tier since they are still working on balancing her.

 

[ihskeyp]

I'm not sure, but Nayru's Love appears to be larger than it was in the Smash Fest demo. If this is true, it could also mean she has received other buffs as well. It just goes to show that it's too early to declare Zelda bottom tier since they are still working on balancing her.

Yeah it looks bigger to me too. I still think the people who put her bottom tier are clueless non-Zelda players who couldn't realize the improvements. She felt much better than brawl Zelda when I uses her (I only got to play as her twice, but she just felt better IMO)

 

[BJN39]

Yeah it looks bigger to me too. I still think the people who put her bottom tier are clueless non-Zelda players who couldn't realize the improvements. She felt much better than brawl Zelda when I uses her (I only got to play as her twice, but she just felt better IMO)

Just... felt, better.

People who put her in bottom tier, are clueless?

She's better than brawl, that much can be seen. But these known changes are FAR from enough.

I'd at this point consider her low tier. Does that mean, me? A well educated on Brawl, Melee, and P:M Zelda, Zelda player is clueless too?

Right now no one can know for sure if she's truly low-tier in this game yet. (It hasn't even come out!) But people can converse about what we know, and what we find out about the game so far. Right now, Zelda looks and plays a TON like Brawl.
That's already a bad sign.
Aside from some of Farore's Wind's changes, the changes discovered are not very fundamentally helpful. So, by speculation, she appears to be her Brawl low tier self, with a couple new changes that won't help her fundamentally, > thus not make her raise in viability, > thus, low tier.
It's a simple argument for her chances of viability in this game at this point. We can hope that some more changes will be made to address other glaring issues with Zelda.

^
tl;dr : You basically called a lot of people clueless.

 

[ihskeyp]

Just... felt, better.

People who put her in bottom tier, are clueless?

She's better than brawl, that much can be seen. But these known changes are FAR from enough.

I'd at this point consider her low tier. Does that mean, me? A well educated on Brawl, Melee, and P:M Zelda, Zelda player is clueless too?

Right now no one can know for sure if she's truly low-tier in this game yet. (It hasn't even come out!) But people can converse about what we know, and what we find out about the game so far. Right now, Zelda looks and plays a TON like Brawl.
That's already a bad sign.
Aside from some of Farore's Wind's changes, the changes discovered are not very fundamentally helpful. So, by speculation, she appears to be her Brawl low tier self, with a couple new changes that won't help her fundamentally, > thus not make her raise in viability, > thus, low tier.
It's a simple argument for her chances of viability in this game at this point. We can hope that some more changes will be made to address other glaring issues with Zelda.

^
tl;dr : You basically called a lot of people clueless.

The physics in this game are very different from Brawl, who knows, the physics might work in her favor more than others. Talking about tier lists in the first place is pretty clueless, actually, as it takes a serious amount of time to make a tier list that is even worth reading through. Saying 'she's still low tier' already is just strange, as we don't even know the roster yet and we haven't gotten to critically compare her to the others in one on one matches with no items.

 

[ECHOnce]

The physics in this game are very different from Brawl, who knows, the physics might work in her favor more than others. Talking about tier lists in the first place is pretty clueless, actually, as it takes a serious amount of time to make a tier list that is even worth reading through. Saying 'she's still low tier' already is just strange, as we don't even know the roster yet and we haven't gotten to critically compare her to the others in one on one matches with no items.

You're right, at the end of the day, it's mostly speculative. But that doesn't mean our speculation is irrational. Regardless of game physics, one of the main reasons why she did badly in Brawl was because she had a moveset filled with kill moves that had long endlag (easily punishable if whiffed, or if they fell out of the ineffective multihit hitboxes mid-animation), usually knocked opponents away (besides her D-tilt and F-tilt...but that's just two, and they were both fairly short-ish-ranged with long-ish endlag), and with no projectile that could reliably hit consistently enough to force approaches. And so far, SSB4 Zelda seems to reflect those traits still. Her Din's Fire, disregarding arguments about buffs/nerfs, will still likely not be able to force any approaches effectively. Most of her moveset still hits away, with a few exceptions like her U-tilt being made into a low KB combo starter...but even then it's limited by it's incredibly short range; if it's whiffed when trying to start a combo, you're punished, so it's probably better for continuing combos rather than starting them. F-tilt now hits away and isn't a combo starter. So we could essentially say we traded a good combo starter tilt (F-tilt) for a mediocre one with shorter range (U-tilt), and a pretty decent kill tilt (U-tilt) for an average weak KB one (F-tilt) that hits too far for combos/din follow-ups.

All we're really saying is that, in terms of following the Brawl trend of hitting too far with high KB moves to have reliable follow-ups, having long, ineffective (they can fall out easily even with the minimal DI/lack of SDI in the demo) multi-hits that are punished easily, and not being able to force an approach, she's still in trouble as it is. The few changes we've gotten don't really help her break away from those weaknesses, at least enough to be of much help. Unless Nintendo does something about them...not to condemn her, but we just think she's gonna struggle.

And I wouldn't say that we're clueless by any means. All of us who're talking tier lists and stuff are all fully aware of how much of what we're saying is liable to turn out differently after changes are made and the begins to meta develop, but that doesn't mean we can't think about it from what we have so far. If you don't like speculation, then that's just one thing that sets us apart as two groups. One shouldn't necessarily target the other just because they have an interest/disinterest. We're all fellow Zelda mains here.

 

[micstar615]

Have we talked about this video yet?

http://youtu.be/OXXkMV8vbXQ

Farore's Wind killed Fox as like 42% 0.o

 

[PrimalCarnage]

Yep, might be worth risking the ending and recovery lag for a surprise kill every now and then. Especially since it's so fast.

At 2:24 d smash acts weird. The Zelda ends up facing left but the knockback on it sends Fox right (as well as high). The second d smash looks like it has better horizontal knockback and makes sense, sending Fox the way the Zelda was facing.

iirc d smash did send characters at various angles depending on how it hit, but never from left to right.

 

[Katy Parry]

Have we talked about this video yet?

http://youtu.be/OXXkMV8vbXQ

Farore's Wind killed Fox as like 42% 0.o

Oh my god, thanks for this video! She is looking so much better. Nayru's lag ends QUICK.

 

[L2 Sentinel]

The animation on her up smash and forward smash looks different, too. They pulled Fox into the attack, so lets hope they aren't escapable this time. That's the one buff (bug fix?) Zelda needs most, in my opinion.

Thanks for the video. It's nice to finally see her in a 1v1 with no items.

 

[☆Jazz☆]

I Zelda for top tier!

 

[PrimalCarnage]

I thought it'd be interesting comparing the damage of Brawl vs Smash 4 Zelda.

Used this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2p-EyKKiAo
and this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXXkMV8vbXQ
since it shows the percentages clearest.

Both go through a lot of the moveset.

Spoiler

Jab
Brawl: 6
S4: 6
dmg same

Ftilt
Brawl: 11-13
S4: 12 (consistent)
dmg same-ish

Utilt
Brawl: 11
S4: 5
Change: - 6

Dtilt
Brawl: 6-8
S4: 5
Change: -1 to -3

Nair
Brawl: 13
S4: 3 (?)
dmg inconclusive, not shown enough to compare

Fair
Brawl: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
S4: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
dmg same

Bair
Brawl: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
S4: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
dmg same

Dair
Brawl: 5 (sour), 16 (sweet)
S4: 4-5 (sour), 16 (sweet)
dmg same-ish

Uair
Brawl: 15
S4: 15-17
Change: +2

Dash Attack
Brawl: 9-12
S4: 7-9 (sour), 10-14 (sweet)
Change: -2 (sour) and +2 (sweet)

Fsmash
Brawl: 17 (uncharged), 23 (charged)
S4: 18 (uncharged) to 20 (charged)
Change: +1 (base) and -3 (charge)

Usmash
Brawl: 15 (uncharged) to 21 (charged)
S4: 17 (uncharged) to 19 (charged)
Change: +2 (base) and -2 (charge)

Dsmash
Brawl: 12 (uncharged) to 17 (charged)
S4: 11-13 (uncharged), 15-18 (charged)
Change: -1 (base) and +1 (charge)

Dthrow
Brawl: 10
S4: 6-7
Change: -4

Bthrow
Brawl: 11
S4: 11
dmg same

Naryu's Love
Brawl: 10-15
S4: 11-13*
needs to see more vids, but probably same range as Brawl

Din's Fire
Brawl: 8-16
S4: 5-9 (sour), 12-15 (sweet)
Changes: -3 (sour) and -1 (sweet)

Faore's Wind
Brawl: 6 (start port), 8 (end port)
S4: 6-8 (start port), 10-14 (end port)
Changes: +2 (start), +6 (end)

Phantom
S4: (charged) 12, 13 (25)
new

Still needs some work but it's a start, the damage variance on some attacks are not shown enough in vids, and it's likely I've gotten some percentages wrong. But feel free to correct and add any information you think I missed, so I can update the info.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I thought it'd be interesting comparing the damage of Brawl vs Smash 4 Zelda.

Used this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2p-EyKKiAo
and this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXXkMV8vbXQ
since it shows the percentages clearest.

Both pretty much go through the whole moveset, only question marks are nair, uthrow and fthrow.

Spoiler

Jab
Brawl: 6
S4: 6
dmg same

Ftilt
Brawl: 11-13
S4: 12 (consistent)
dmg same-ish

Utilt
Brawl: 11
S4: 5
dmg nerf

Dtilt
Brawl: 6-8
S4: 5
dmg nerf

Nair
Brawl: 13
S4: 3 (?)
dmg inconclusive, not shown enough to compare

Fair
Brawl: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
S4: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
dmg same

Bair
Brawl: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
S4: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
dmg same

Dair
Brawl: 5 (sour), 16 (sweet)
S4: 4-5 (sour), 16 (sweet)
dmg same-ish

Uair
Brawl: 15
S4: 15-17
dmg buff

Dash Attack
Brawl: 9-12
S4: 7-9 (sour), 10-14 (sweet)
dmg buff

Fsmash
Brawl: 17 (uncharged), 23 (charged)
S4: 18 (uncharged) to 20 (charged)
dmg buff (+1 base) and nerf (- 3 charge)

Usmash
Brawl: 15 (uncharged) to 21 (charged)
S4: 17 (uncharged) to 19 (charged)
dmg buff (+2 base) and nerf (-2 charge)

Dsmash
Brawl: 12 (uncharged) to 17 (charged)
S4: 11-13 (uncharged), 15-18 (charged)
dmg nerf (-1 base) and buff (+1 charge)

Dthrow
Brawl: 10
S4: 6-7
dmg nerf

Bthrow
Brawl: 11
S4: 11
dmg same

Naryu's Love
Brawl: 10-15
S4: 11
dmg same

Din's Fire
Brawl: 8-16
S4: 5-9 (sour), 12-15 (sweet spot)
dmg nerf

Faore's Wind
Brawl: 6, 8 iirc
S4: 6-8, 10-14
dmg buff

Phantom
S4: (charged) 12, 13 (25)
new

I know I missed a couple, like the true damage variance on some attacks, as well as probably got some percentages wrong. Feel free to correct and add any information you think I missed.

I remember sitting down and counting near the beginning how much Nayru's love did maybe a month or two ago, but I got 13. It was a while ago and finding the video would be impossible. But that's just my two cents.
Does dash attack really have a sweet spot now?
And I'm not liking the sweet spot on Din's either, keep us at a consistent twelve, Zelda's already sweet spot heavy.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

I remember sitting down and counting near the beginning how much Nayru's love did maybe a month or two ago, but I got 13. It was a while ago and finding the video would be impossible. But that's just my two cents.
Does dash attack really have a sweet spot now?
And I'm not liking the sweet spot on Din's either, keep us at a consistent twelve, Zelda's already sweet spot heavy.

I think Naryu's one of the one with damage variance in Brawl, so it most likely does go to 13. But I'll add your information in. Thank you.

And yeah, dash definitely has a sweet spot. In the second vid, it usually does around 9% but at 1:33 it KO's Fox and does around 14%. From 92 to 106. iirc Bill described it as spacing it around her palms, instead of trying to get as close as possible.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I think Naryu's one of the one with damage variance in Brawl, so it most likely does go to 13. But I'll add your information in. Thank you.

And yeah, dash definitely has a sweet spot. In the second vid, it usually does around 9% but at 1:33 it KO's Fox and does around 14%. From 92 to 106. iirc Bill described it as spacing it around her palms, instead of trying to get as close as possible.

Your welcome, I could be wrong but I'm ninety percent sure I saw 13% somewhere in there.
Dash being a sweet spot. Huh. I think the thing is that dash is already a pretty powerful attack, it has pretty decent knock back but I usually use it in combos. Zelda does need a handful more kill moves so I guess this is a good thing.

 

[Toadallstar2]

Fair
Brawl: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
S4: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)


I've always wondered this. How come it's 20 in matches where moves never lose their freshness. But otherwise it starts out with 21?
It's always been 21 dmg for me outside of say, practice mode. But 20 in it.
21 for both Brawl/Smash 4 I've seen.

 

[ECHOnce]

Fair
Brawl: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)
S4: 4 (sour), 20 (sweet)


I've always wondered this. How come it's 20 in matches where moves never lose their freshness. But otherwise it starts out with 21?
It's always been 21 dmg for me outside of say, practice mode. But 20 in it.
21 for both Brawl/Smash 4 I've seen.

That's because many moves don't deal the exact %s shown. IIRC most moves have decimal values tacked on in terms of how much % damage they do and it doesn't round up, so if it goes up an extra %, it's probably just because the opponent previously had 0.9% or something

 

[Katty Shepherd]

That's because many moves don't deal the exact %s shown. IIRC most moves have decimal values tacked on in terms of how much % damage they do and it doesn't round up, so if it goes up an extra %, it's probably just because the opponent previously had 0.9% or something

Really?
We can have .9%?
How have I never heard about this. That's pretty cool.

 

[meleebrawler]

The physics in this game are very different from Brawl, who knows, the physics might work in her favor more than others. Talking about tier lists in the first place is pretty clueless, actually, as it takes a serious amount of time to make a tier list that is even worth reading through. Saying 'she's still low tier' already is just strange, as we don't even know the roster yet and we haven't gotten to critically compare her to the others in one on one matches with no items.

I keep saying this, thanks to air dodges having lag when used too close to the ground, Zelda can potentially catch
then with Din's Fire there.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I keep saying this, thanks to air dodges having lag when used too close to the ground, Zelda can potentially catch
then with Din's Fire there.

One of the custom moves for Din's Fire has it going faster a good bit faster I believe at the cost of vertical control I think. I think that would definitely help her projectile game if anything.

 

[Neo Zero]

Wow, slow month in here lol

So I'm sure you guys being smart Hyrulean Princess mains know about the whole multi move spiking thing right? Well, here's some fun stuff for you then. Zelda's Nair posesses this nice little feature, causing a spike from its middle hits (might be all but the final one). Now, here's where things get fun. I've tested many MANY multi hitting move spikes now, and Zelda can actually combo off the spike. If you input Dtilt right away, its a true inescapable combo. This likely means that her Nair is at frame advantage in this situation (i can't verify that at this time though).

Also, you can combo from her D throw into her Nair, meaning with enough skill it could be possible to Down Throw>Nair Spike>Dtilt>Regrab. Ill let you cats figure this out more though when the game is out on Friday.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Wow, slow month in here lol

So I'm sure you guys being smart Hyrulean Princess mains know about the whole multi move spiking thing right? Well, here's some fun stuff for you then. Zelda's Nair posesses this nice little feature, causing a spike from its middle hits (might be all but the final one). Now, here's where things get fun. I've tested many MANY multi hitting move spikes now, and Zelda can actually combo off the spike. If you input Dtilt right away, its a true inescapable combo. This likely means that her Nair is at frame advantage in this situation (i can't verify that at this time though).

Also, you can combo from her D throw into her Nair, meaning with enough skill it could be possible to Down Throw>Nair Spike>Dtilt>Regrab. Ill let you cats figure this out more though when the game is out on Friday.

Combs are always good.

 

[BJN39]

Wow, slow month in here lol

So I'm sure you guys being smart Hyrulean Princess mains know about the whole multi move spiking thing right? Well, here's some fun stuff for you then. Zelda's Nair posesses this nice little feature, causing a spike from its middle hits (might be all but the final one). Now, here's where things get fun. I've tested many MANY multi hitting move spikes now, and Zelda can actually combo off the spike. If you input Dtilt right away, its a true inescapable combo. This likely means that her Nair is at frame advantage in this situation (i can't verify that at this time though).

Also, you can combo from her D throw into her Nair, meaning with enough skill it could be possible to Down Throw>Nair Spike>Dtilt>Regrab. Ill let you cats figure this out more though when the game is out on Friday.

I believe that Dthrow knocks too far at even 0% for this to work on most chars. I can't see Zelda being able to at least land on the ground during NAir if it's used fast enough to actually catch the opponent. Not to mention good DI and vectoring will make it even harder to land the NAir in the first place.

NAir still having some sort of frame advantage into attack when landing like brawl makes me happy though.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wow, slow month in here lol

So I'm sure you guys being smart Hyrulean Princess mains know about the whole multi move spiking thing right? Well, here's some fun stuff for you then. Zelda's Nair posesses this nice little feature, causing a spike from its middle hits (might be all but the final one). Now, here's where things get fun. I've tested many MANY multi hitting move spikes now, and Zelda can actually combo off the spike. If you input Dtilt right away, its a true inescapable combo. This likely means that her Nair is at frame advantage in this situation (i can't verify that at this time though).

Also, you can combo from her D throw into her Nair, meaning with enough skill it could be possible to Down Throw>Nair Spike>Dtilt>Regrab. Ill let you cats figure this out more though when the game is out on Friday.

you're 5 years late to the party

http://smashboards.com/threads/lets-look-at-autocancelling-some-nair.259274/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHveYRodTrI


also i think this thread can be unstuck now