Yea most likely that Air traffic control ****, although Im considering a couple other options as well.
When you *****s come back from Canada we should play. I been missing the game son, I wanna be on point for Genesis II.
and Im hopping to have my thread marginally finished in about a month. Ive stashed it on Vgbootcamp.com the forum where Pound 5 results were posted.
After My m2 thread is done Im thinking about making a how melee works thread-something along the lines, how damage is calculated, how DI works, how teching works, hitlag, hitstun, stale moves, fall speed, knockback, momentum stacking, etc.
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Just kinda random, but in case any of you guys were wondering about Smash DI ASDI TEching. I found a pretty good guide
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SDI, ASDI, Teching
Magus420 said:
KAOSTAR said:
Magus420 said:
KAOSTAR said:
Magus420 said:
KAOSTAR said:
Rock crock posted this: can you confirm or deny? I was just a bit confused when I read your .6 w of Jiggs for SDI and .3 for ASDI
"Smash DI in the corner directions moves you farther than in cardinal directions. That's just the way it is. Weird."
"the corners move you both farther horizontally and farther vertically than do the cardinal directions. If you're using the c-stick for ASDI, it should be in the corners."
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/516492-super-smash-bros-melee?search=tech
He may have gotten that impression from TAS things that sometimes do a SDI each frame by alternating between diagonals, but that's done to satisfy the stick movement needed between each SDI rather then each one actually going further that way. If you want to go to the right you can't SDI full right every frame or you'd just be holding it, and going full right and skipping every other frame is less distance than alternating diagonals. Alternating between like 10 degrees above full right to 10 below full right would actually get you further to the right than either of those.
But yeah, I'm pretty certain a diagonal SDI doesn't cover any more total distance than a cardinal one, and it definitely doesn't cover more distance in that cardinal direction (it would in fact be less effective if you want to move in a cardinal direction).
Lol yea I didnt think about SDI the same direction every frame is holding it. You still need that 1 frame to input the button. but yes thank you makes perfect sense.
Do you know how many directions the GC controller has on its stick? I guess more importantly is 10 degrees how far you need to move to get a seperate input?
There are more than you'd want to try counting really. You basically move at the near exact angle you are pointing the stick when it is triggered (same with the very beginning part of an airdodge's movement). It's not limited to a small number of directions like aimable up-Bs.
The 10 degrees thing just comes from where SDIs can trigger from rotation. It's based on 4 specific points located very close to each cardinal direction for clockwise, and another 4 opposite of those for counterclockwise. To trigger a SDI by rotating along the outside you need to cross over an arrow for that particular direction.
The difference between them is much smaller if you're trying to go in an overall cardinal direction (about 20 degrees) and can go closer to a straight line with the SDIs, but it's much greater if you want to move diagonally (about 70 degrees).
Oh, very interesting. So are you saying that Rotating from straight up to straight down will get you the initial up, + 2 arrow points=3 SDI or do the 8 ways count also = a total of 7 SDI inputs?
And if it were frame perfect could you still SDI in ANY direction neutral and do another input, or are those 16 points the only ones in which you can SDI at all?
Meaning its just harder to SDI diagonally just in general, and the best way to SDI to the right most would be smashing right, and alternate your movement to each arrow?
sorry its so many questions
Yeah, if you smash up, then rotate to straight down you can get 3 SDIs (the actual directions you go on the 2nd/3rd SDIs will depend on where it's pointing on the frame the game sees you've gone past an arrow point).
If you go neutral inbetween you can SDI in any of the like 9001+ directions. Going from neutral you will be able to trigger a SDI by moving the stick into any part of the orange area. Also the distance you are pointing the stick doesn't change the distance (there's no slight SDI); it just takes the overall angle/slope. You can SDI in tons of directions through rotation as well, just not those that are within the same quadrant you're currently in. Entering a different quadrant is essentially what you're doing by passing over those arrows, which might be easier to understand/visualize than the arrows.
It's harder to move in a diagonal direction with multiple SDIs because it's the farthest away from the quadrants' borders/arrows which you need to go to to get another SDI without going back to neutral, so the directions you end up getting out of those SDIs every frame are far off from the direction you actually want to go in (going up, right, up, right... compared to right&slightly down, right&slightly up, right&slightly down... when trying to go to the right).
Also, every move that connects with either a person or shield, or hurtbox will have hitlag. Its hard to tell but you literally will freeze for a certain amount of frames. During these freezes, you can input SDI with the control stick. The amount that you move is .6 the width of jiggz with each input of SDI that you get. You cannot SDI in the exact same direction twice on two consecutive frames, or get multiple inputs by simple rotation. As shown above you must either reset to neutral or rotate past a certain point in order to obtain another input.
Im not actuallly 100% sure if ASDI happens the frame after hitlag aka the same frame u start moving, or if its the last frames of hitlag. But most likely it would be the frame after since it would be more consistent to be able to just SDI during hitlag and ASDI the next frame. Cstick has priority of control stick during ASDI only and only moves you a maximum of .3 the width of jiggz. Moves that have multiple htiboxes such as m2s nair, foxes drill have hitlag on each of the hitboxes, meaning you can hold the c stick or control stick for an ASDI input on each attack.
You can SDI/ASDI while in your shield(shield DI not smash DI, I dont think you can go vertically). Shield foxs lazers and hold left/right and you will see that you slide in that direction. I believe that is just simply automatic shield DI, just as hitting a person causes hitstop, hitting a shield does the same. During those frames you should be able to input SDI that would move you a greater distance.
The damage phase on shields and on a character happens after SDI, not 100% sure if its at the same time as ASDI or if its right after. What I mean by this is that each move similar to how it does x amount of percent, it does a certain amount of damage to a shield. Marths shield breaker while unstale(im not sure which Nth/9) will completely deplete your shields health bar. At full stale, it doesnt have enough power to break a full shield. It always breaks light shields. While light shielding you have more shield stun and take more shield damage(I believe). The shield itself decays over time which adds to the damage, less the lighter you shield.
1.Hitbox comes out
2. player/shield is hit
3 hitstop(hitlag) occurs, both players are frozen in place for a set amount of time. During this freeze you can inut SDI
4 ASDI is on the same frame that you start moving, You also want to normal DI perpendicular to your launch angle. This is necessary for the maximum change in trajectory. You will either be trying to survive, tech, or escape the next move in a particular "combo" Survival DI is typically towards the stage and up to some degree. This will direct your path up and towards the corners of the blast zone giving you the best chance to recover. Double stick DI(actually just using both sticks(c stick for ASDI only) but often misused to describe trying to stick tech) is usually the opposite. Its away and down in attempts to lower your launch angle as much as possible so that you can tech. Combo DI is tricky, it varies from character to move, to situation to time of day. Most of the time tho ur gonna wanna to smash as far away to get out of the next hit, sometimes you wanna go up and out of their reach, to a platform, or sometimes down to the ground thus ending the combo.
Teching...
Basically you can pop up rather quickly to recover from hitting the ground. Your velocity is drastically slowed but you keep your momentum. there are 4 kinds of techs:
1.Just normal run of the mill stick tech, such as after falcons downthrow. You can tech from the tumble animation, or during hitstun. During a tumbling animation tho mashing buttons is usually better because you recover immediately and are not forced into a more limiting situation. With m2 or fox I like to recover from tumbles with laser(since it land cancels) or a shadowball. A way to force yourself into the tumble animation is to WD back off a platform or edge while holding shield(it has to come out b4 u fall off). If you fall off backwards while shielding you will tumble, and can actually force yourself to tech...its easier to test with m2 or luigi on the right platforms in hyrule.
2.double Stick Techs-You optimize you DI so that you collide with a floor surface during ASDI in which you still have most of the momentum from the attack but your net displacement will greatly decrease.
3.Wall/ceiling tech-same as a stick tech except you collide with a wall or ceiling. The biggest difference other than the ability to wall jump, is that you can collide with these surfaces during hitstop as well. What this means is that you can SDI into the side of a wall to "ledge tech" which opposes stick techs because you must ASDI into the ground in order to "collide" with the surface.
4.non stick tech-Im not 100% sure on the conditions required to satisfy this, but I know that as you fly across a platform (often diagonally) you can simply hit left/right and you will instantly right yourself but will keep all of your momentum. And for the record this isnt the same thing as edge canceling your downed animation when u miss a tech.
TEch mechanics are as follows:
A FULL press of L/R starts your tech cycle. It is discriminant on what you are doing, whether it be airdodgeing, shielding( full press is required to powershield), l canceling...its best to light press so you do not prematurely activate your tech cycle, Wave Dash(huge, Will **** up your techs if u get hit during the wrong time)
notice I said it only starts your tech cycle.
This tech cyle lasts for 20 frames. During the twenty frames if you ASDI into a floor, land on a floor during hitstun or tumble, SDI/ASDI into a wall/ceiling... you will stick tech unless you break one of the following rules:
All of this is independent on whether you have teched or not teched already, its about having a working tech window, a broken one, or during cool down. Im 100% sure on whether you can tech multiple times during 1 tech cycle(will make sense later) but Im assuming that either you can, or it would never come up simply due to the length of time in which it takes to tech.
A 2nd full press of L/R during your initial 20 frame working tech cycle, will break your tech cycle and it will become broken. What this means is that you immediately start a new 20 frame window...but you CANNOT tech because you "mashed" L/R.
After every single tech cycle(working or broken), there is a 20 frame cool down in which you cannot tech. If you fully press L/R during the cool down you immediately start a broken tech window of 20 frames...followed by the standard 20 frame cool down in which you cannot tech during regardless of the situation.
If you press L/R during hitstop you cannot tech because you immediately enter a broken tech cycle, once again followed by the standard 20 frame cool down.
EZ MODE Reading
20 frames of wrkng tech as long as you dont "break" the cycle
20 frames of cool down
or
20 frames of broken tech
20 frames of cool down
nothing inbetween, either it works or its broke, then cool down. this means to play it safe you have to wait 40 frames between L/R presses to always be in good standings for techs.
*+Very important*+
If you plan on stick teching you want to assess the time from when u will get hit until the time that you will hit the ground. Since you cannot activate a working tech cyle during hitstop, you must press L/R b4 or after you get hit.
If you plan on pressing it after just make sure that you have enough time to do it b4 you hit the ground. This is hard to accomplish for double sitck etchs, or when close to a wall/ceiling such as ledge teching(I mean like actually close to the wall) but much easier with normal stick techs or wall/ceiling techs where u have some time to react.
If you plan on pressing it b4, such as attempting to double stick tech, insta-tech, wall/ceiling tech being very close to the wall, you need to take into account the hitstop of the move you are being hit with. Take a move like samus charge shot which has 16 frames of hitstop. If you are close to a wall and want to ledge tech u dont have alot of time to react after getting hit, so u push L/R b4 hand...well the tech window only last for 20 frames. 20-16=4 frames. You must activate you tech cycle within 4 frames of being hit. moves that are easier to DI, are harder to stick tech if you have to press L/R beforehand.
...go to Genesis 2!!!!
