Official SWF Tier List v8

[Delta-cod]

You heard it here first boys and girls, ddd's bair is overrated and has no oos options. Clearly all of his winning mu's with most everyone below him are clearly overrated.

Maybe everyone below him is just more terrible.

 

[ChickenWing13]

F*ck the tier list!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I think Sonic is probably better than peach, and its a character Im pretty familiar with out here. Also no one is saying peach sucks, and while she does have some pretty strong tools in comparison to Sonic she just seems more limited as a character.

Im also not sure why you brought up snake, from what I remember Sonics do pretty well against snake compared to peach.

I disagree with Peach being worse than Sonic. Sadly, my impressions of sonic are few and far between. The only problem I see with peach is that she cannot get past being easily juggled. She has the worst options out of any character I think at getting back down when you look at how her mobility in the air prevents her from preventing the opponent from doing much.

Best(MK)
Air Dodge Lasts 39 Frames
Invincible Frames 3 – 28

Worst (Peach)
Air Dodge Total: 49
Invincible Frames 4 – 19

Lets couple this with one of the games worst fast fall speeds and air dodge is not very useful in the air. Then after this, floating is not all that useful in brawl, imo. Its still better to have it than not at all because you get greater control over your recovery, but still pretty much all characters will fall faster and accelerate faster up to peach when she is in the air. Simply wait out her float. 2nd jump is not extremely useful earlier in recovery because the height gain is pretty poor and slow to accelerate. And, because of her slower falling speed her aerials are not all that great for preventing people from attacking her. You can typically out space her in the air.

When peach is lower to the ground (short hop height) many of these faults are actually really good or negligible. Air dodge doesn't matter if you manage to do into the ground to avoid the lag. Float is rather useful for many ground related defenses and offensive attacks. The big plus to Peach over Sonic is having better ground tools. I believe she actually has guaranteed punishes on characters at lower percents that hardly any other character can claim. Many punishes are subject to well-timed attacks or appropriate DI. However, peach manages to work in guaranteed lower percents punishes that will work until you start getting close to 100% range. With the help of turnips, she can maintain a rather nice advantage near the edge.

Sonic reminds me too much of Falcon and Marth from melee. He has to rely more upon movement and waiting for the opponents to commitment to an attack before rushing in and getting a punish. However, his punishes like the most of the brawl cast are one hits before its still no longer really an advantage for him anymore.

 

[Dekillsage]

@Dekillsage: You're underrating DDD's recovery waaaay too much, even though he has a bunch of jumps, any DDD should be smart with them as if he only had two or three. Again, a smart DDD should not really have problem when offstage.
He even has the option of do the invincible (no non-SA frames) Up-B.

It's not an issue of being smart. DDD's recovery isn't good and you can force him to up-b because even though he has multiple jumps they become ****tier with each jump he does. If he's up to his 3rd jump they start doing jack **** for ddd when he's off stage, and chances are he wont reach the ledge unless he was already over it.

This is what you do
1)knock ddd off stage/
2) jump at ddd and stay right out of fair range(char dependant)
3)If ddd does fair hit him and recover on stage. If he doesn't hit him anyways. If he turn around bairs chances are he used his jump. Good for you!
4) If he's over the ledge hit him before he reaches it, if he's under the ledge just stand there because he wont be able to grab it with his last few jumps.
5) punish up b with fair

Doesn't apply to smash "recover for free on a platform" ville

 

[ChickenWing13]

I think players should start experimenting with low tiers nowadays, seeing as this game is now 5 yrs in the making. It would be pretty interesting to see a complete change in the tier list.

If only players would look at brawl in a more fun perspective rather than competitive, but nope its all about ranking and bringin in the dough

 

[Jabejazz]

This game isn't even fun yo. The hell you're smoking.

 

[Dekillsage]

This game isn't even fun yo. The hell you're smoking.

It's really fun to play a game where when you win it feels like you genuinely outplayed and outsmarted your opponent.
Then you fight metaknight and that feeling is lost.

 

[DeLux]

What if you win though?

 

[Jabejazz]

Then you wake up.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

What if you win though?

Win? Against Metaknight?

 

[Tesh]

4-19/49, good lord its that bad? I thought it was like 4-29.

Peach is a better secondary than Sonic, but Sonic is better overall. She gets trashed waaaaaaaaaaay too easily by MK.

What is Dark Peach even talking about with Snake. When had a top Snake lost to a Peach?

 

[Dekillsage]

What if you win though?

You end up realizing you didn't out play the MK player and won because they killed themselves.
Don't know how you can outplay someone who has a character who has answers to everything, can't be edge guarded and can always return to neutral whenever he feels like it.

 

[Espy Rose]

Then you wake up.

The best answer.

 

[pidgezero_one]

In vs. mode, you are punished for repeatedly using moves and rewarded for using a move once for the first time to discourage spamming, hence the stale moves queue and 1.05 bonus damage on fresh moves.

That does not disprove my sentence

 

[ShadowLink84]

What if you win though?

You plug your opponent's controller back in and say GG.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Man, this won't be much of a challenge............oh well

I think Sonic is probably better than peach, and its a character Im pretty familiar with out here. Also no one is saying peach sucks, and while she does have some pretty strong tools in comparison to Sonic she just seems more limited as a character.

Im also not sure why you brought up snake, from what I remember Sonics do pretty well against snake compared to peach.

He isn't and I can easily break down while. Im just waiting to hear all the ******** answers as too why people think he is a better character before I shut down this whole operation.

And sonic does not do better than peach vs snake. I could break this down in a very simple format that does not even need for me to hit you with a text book of Peach knowledge. I will state one thing on this though. Sonic can not lock down snake when he gets in. I on the other hand can do that. Peach has one of the best 50/50's in this game when she gets someone on block or pressure. All Sonic can do is hit and run.

But as I said, Im just waiting for more BS answers as I been hearing thus far as to why he is better before I kill this.

4-19/49, good lord its that bad? I thought it was like 4-29.

Peach is a better secondary than Sonic, but Sonic is better overall. She gets trashed waaaaaaaaaaay too easily by MK.

What is Dark Peach even talking about with Snake. When had a top Snake lost to a Peach?

When has sonic mop the floor with a top snake?

Because Sonic can actually win.

I'm sorry, your trolling and reason is weak as hell. Are you even trying? I'm ticked people like you help with the rules of this community. This explains alot.

Welcome to Internet Forums.
Dark Pch tries to sound intelligent when he actually isn't IMO. Throwing up walls of text doesn't make you intelligent. Also sounding condescending doesn't help :/. As soon as I read "Oh good god. I'm sorry. I can't do this. I can't just sit here and let so much garbage and false info just be spread around here.", I stopped.
Also,

Sonic > Peach. Easy concept to grasp.

Seriously all these comments to try and sound funny online and get at me are washed up. Can't you people be creative? This is hella weak and clearly shows you know nothing. Just jumping on the board wagon to seem cool and hide your heavy lack of knowledge. Comments like this just make my point every time and make me look good. If you are gonna come at me, at least try......

 

[FourStar]

kinda like how i support pika no matter the situation, everyone is gonna defend their favorite character no matter what. an opinions an opinion. sometimes though we gotta realize when a character has a bad MU or plain sucks

 

[Tesh]

So you are saying Peach does better based on Sonic not winning the matchup either? If you are the smart one here, you should gladly show me some evidence that Peach is even remotely viable in the matchup. Just tell me the best snakes that have fallen to peach and when these losses occurred.

From now on, "Live and Learn" is "Hit and Run".

 

[FourStar]

So you are saying Peach does better based on Sonic not winning the matchup either? If you are the smart one here, you should gladly show me some evidence that Peach is even remotely viable in the matchup. Just tell me the best snakes that have fallen to peach and when these losses occurred.

From now on, "Live and Learn" is "Hit and Run".

umm are talking to me or the peach guy?

 

[Dark.Pch]

So you are saying Peach does better based on Sonic not winning the matchup either? If you are the smart one here, you should gladly show me some evidence that Peach is even remotely viable in the matchup. Just tell me the best snakes that have fallen to peach and when these losses occurred.

From now on, "Live and Learn" is "Hit and Run".

I recall simply asking you when was the last time sonic mop the floor with a top snake....and it lead to something else such as this. guys make this too easy for me.

No top snake lost to a peach. Now if you dodge my question again, this means you bringing this up means nothing. if no sonic has mop the floor with a top snake, this question means nothing and holds no weight.

I ask time and time again why you guys think sonic is better. I'm actually making this fair and making you guys state your peace so this can be a fair clean debate (then I realize this is the smash community.......). And all I get back is stupid comments to sound cool and be one with the crowd online. Last chance before I make you look like the fools you are trying so hard to make me.

Why is Sonic better?

 

[Dark.Pch]

PC acting up. excuse double post

 

[Tesh]

I asked first...

In any case, I didn't say Sonic does better. I personally think they are both so poor at the matchup its hard to measure because they both always lose. Since you've made the statement that Peach is better, I'd like to see what you've got that supports it. Aside from rambling theorycraft.

 

[Shaya]

Sometimes you just use a character who goes.

OH MK
YOU"RE ON THE LEDGE?
OH GOODY
(Bonus points for there being an LGL and you having a percent lead)

Oh MK, you're above my head and don't have time to start gliding?
OH GOODY

Oh MK, you're off stage and I'm using invincibility from the ledge + broken aerials?
OH GOODY

MK is actually not a very good character

 

[Dark.Pch]

Then there is no point in me getting into this. Why this whole thing was really why people think sonic is a better character in general. Im giving the others one more chance on this.

But I don't mind playing this game to make a point match up wise. Tell me just what can sonic do in the match up. There be no point in comparing anything if this is just one side. Tell me how sonic deals with snake and how he is suppose to pull off the win, and I will do the same in my next post.

 

[Shaya]

Why could Sonic be better in this game?

Because as a punisher from power shields, he is vastly superior to Peach.
The end.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I nominate myself for SWF mod and BBR member

 

[KuroganeHammer]

The last 5 pages of this thread made me cry.

 

[FourStar]

The last 5 pages of this thread made me cry.

in what way?

 

[Tesh]

Dark Peach what do you want from me? I said they both suck. I said my part on overall viability of each character, but on this matchup I have no strong opinion one way or the other. I'm just asking for evidence to YOUR claim. I think you don't have any, which is why we are on "last chance" 3 or something.

If you have anything that supports your claim, say it now or admit your opinion is based on fantasy.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

in what way?

Some times Dark.Pch has that effect on people.

 

[FourStar]

Some times Dark.Pch has that effect on people.

LOL he would defend peach untill the end of the world but there's gotta be a point where you just got to to give up defending your character is the best unless it actually is the best character

 

[Jabejazz]

kinda like how i support pika no matter the situation, everyone is gonna defend their favorite character no matter what. an opinions an opinion. sometimes though we gotta realize when a character has a bad MU or plain sucks

an opinions an opinion

You don't defend a character using opinions. You choose/prefer a character over others because it's your opinion that X character is your favorite one.
Not because you're obviously biased in your statements when Pikachu is concerned that everyone acts like you do.

 

[Tesh]

Why doesn't Dark Peach actually write a book and then cite it whenever he gets into an argument?

 

[Shaya]

I bet you he's going to have a really good time explaining how in 7 extra frames Peach can now usmash punish people for stocks and be the next Olimar.

 

[FourStar]

You don't defend a character using opinions. You choose/prefer a character over others because it's your opinion that X character is your favorite one.
Not because you're obviously biased in your statements when Pikachu is concerned that everyone acts like you do.

yeah i see what you mean but i went as far as i can to defend pikachu. no one listened so i gave up. if anyone tries to bring it up again yeah i'll try my best to defend him but either way no one listens and lists the bad MU. and yea i admit pikachu sucks in some aspects but i feel he could do better if people give him a chance

 

[bubbaking]

Can't believe I never read or even heard of this earlier.

Oh hey, all the regulars + the regular <500 posts poster are here.

 

[Player-1]

in my honestest onion pokmon traner is beter than peach

 

[Shaya]

That Charizard powershield fsmash punish.

LEARNING THE WAYS OF ZERO SUIT.

 

[Tesh]

I honestly think the most viable thing you can do as Peach is pull lots of turnips and pray.

 

[FourStar]

peach is such a weird character. a lot of the peaches just pull those damn turnips.... hoping one is gonna kill smh