Official Stage Discussion

[Player -0]

Have you messed with having something inside the cloud? Just a vague color change would even be useful to show collisions while keeping the rest of the cloudiness intact.

How about a small circulating ring that goes around each cloud or the such?

 

[Zach777]

Posting here to say that I love the two new stages, Hanenbow and Infinite Glacier. That Castle Siege should have the second transformation taken away and PS1 should get new layouts for fire and rock that don't have wierd walls.

Pictochat's wind transformation should be removed and be replaced with either a Battlefield platform layout or a moving platform Smashville-esque transformation.

Also, Shadow Moses Island should be replaced with the custom stage called Mushroom Kingdom. The custom stage can be found on Theytah's PM 3.2 build v6.

I love this new version of PM stage wise(and pretty much all other wises)

 

[Chosenl]

Yup, ice climbers are still immune to ice collisions.


Dracula's castle is very much still in the game. It's on page 2


I take it you weren't a big fan of Melee's Battlefield eh?

Joking aside, the main platform actually has a degree of leniency built in now, so it's definitely not Lylat 2.0. The thin platforms instead of clouds are actually something we tried at one point, but they just didn't look good. The collisions on the clouds were adjusted to be more consistent between them though.


We kept the wind because it's part of what makes Dreamland, well, Dreamland.


It's actually exactly the same size as it was before.

I know its there, but its not tourney legal anymore. That's my beef with it.

 

[Player -0]

The page layout doesn't represent its tourney legality. It's a more convenient if it's on the front page and less likely to be forgotten about though, so it's weird that it's on page 2.

 

[Piford]

I know its there, but its not tourney legal anymore. That's my beef with it.

If you want it to be on the first page replace this file on your SD card. It adds Delphino Plaza, Port Town Aero Dive, Skyloft, Dracula's Castle, Pictochat, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium, and Halberd to the first page, and moves Temple, Infinite Glacier, Hanebow, and Rumble Falls to the second page.

 

[shapular]

To be fair, that is Brawl. A game where moving around is discouraged because you could be punished for anything by Icies or MK.

I'm not going to address your bad opinion, but that has nothing to do with the stages themselves.

I love the new stages, but I really do miss Dracula's Castle (or w/e its called). Use to pick that stage in.... I think 2.5 all the time. Hope it can be reworked to be a tourney legal stage again someday

I always hated Dracula's Castle. It's ugly, it's too big, and most importantly, it's not from a Nintendo game (or games for any third-party character in the game).

We kept the wind because it's part of what makes Dreamland, well, Dreamland.

Microgames are part of what makes WarioWare WarioWare. Lava is part of what makes Norfair Norfair. Bulborb is part of what makes Distant Planet Distant Planet. Checkpoints and collapsing floors are part of what makes Green Hill Zone Green Hill Zone. Transformations are part of what makes Pokemon Stadium 2 Pokemon Stadium 2. Et cetera.

Pictochat's wind transformation should be removed and be replaced with either a Battlefield platform layout or a moving platform Smashville-esque transformation.

If wind is okay on Dreamland, it's okay on Pictochat.

If you want it to be on the first page replace this file on your SD card. It adds Delphino Plaza, Port Town Aero Dive, Skyloft, Dracula's Castle, Pictochat, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium, and Halberd to the first page, and moves Temple, Infinite Glacier, Hanebow, and Rumble Falls to the second page.

Port Town Aero Dive on page 1? o.o

 

[Piford]

Port Town Aero Dive on page 1? o.o

No that file just adds it to page 1.

 

[Master WGS]

New Dreamland is gross. Something about it is incredibly off-putting to me.

Will simply replacing it with 3.02's Dreamland cause any problems/affect it gameplay-wise in any way?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I'm not going to address your bad opinion, but that has nothing to do with the stages themselves.

If you're not going to address something, simply don't comment. You look like a **** stating that you're not going to say anything.

 

[shapular]

If you're not going to address something, simply don't comment. You look like a **** stating that you're not going to say anything.

I did. I said that Brawl's gameplay doesn't affect the validity of the stages. There's no reason the stages suddenly become bad outside of Brawl.

No that file just adds it to page 1.

But why PTAD of all stages?

 

[Sandfall]

Have you messed with having something inside the cloud? Just a vague color change would even be useful to show collisions while keeping the rest of the cloudiness intact.

How about a small circulating ring that goes around each cloud or the such?

Yup I was experimenting with putting something inside the cloud, but it caused issues with entrance animations. I'll probably take another look at it later, but for 3.5, we decided to take a "No Johns" approach to Skyworld

New Dreamland is gross. Something about it is incredibly off-putting to me.

Will simply replacing it with 3.02's Dreamland cause any problems/affect it gameplay-wise in any way?

Nope, the collisions should be the same. I didn't work on that stage though, so I'm only like 95% sure on that.

Microgames are part of what makes WarioWare WarioWare. Lava is part of what makes Norfair Norfair. Bulborb is part of what makes Distant Planet Distant Planet. Checkpoints and collapsing floors are part of what makes Green Hill Zone Green Hill Zone. Transformations are part of what makes Pokemon Stadium 2 Pokemon Stadium 2. Et cetera.

Personally, I prefer the vBrawl versions of these stages. I'll tell you for the third time. I was not on the development team at the time those changes were made, so I cannot speak for them. However, for the stages that remain, I plan on keeping their identity intact if we are ever to modify them in any way.

I know its there, but its not tourney legal anymore. That's my beef with it.

Stage legality is decided by the TOs, not the PMDT.

 

[Piford]

I did. I said that Brawl's gameplay doesn't affect the validity of the stages. There's no reason the stages suddenly become bad outside of Brawl.


But why PTAD of all stages?

Well when I made it, I wanted to put most of the stages I use in friendlies (we agree to not abuse the broken things). There's a running joke that makes fun of the 20XX thing. In the year 20XX, our meta has grown so that Jigglypuff is the only viable character and Mute City is only viable stage, since no one mains fox. It carried over to project m in the form of PTAD. The reason it was mute city was because if you rested while the stage was about to leave the stop, the damage from the road cancels the rest animation so you can rest again.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I did. I said that Brawl's gameplay doesn't affect the validity of the stages. There's no reason the stages suddenly become bad outside of Brawl.


But why PTAD of all stages?

Wouldn't Brawl's gameplay have something to do with what stages were considered valid and what weren't though?

 

[GFooChombey]

Hey I just wanted to offer my insight now that we've started settling into the stages and after talking about them on other forums. I also have a few questions.

Dreamland is beautiful, but a common annoyance I hear is that the warp star against the tree since it looks so much like the actual item. Could that be changed to something like a star from Air Ride or something similar? It's a nice touch, just a bit distracting. While we're on the topic of this stage, do the Bronto Burt still appear or is just the Scarfy?

Distant Planet looks much more natural with the tree stump, but the texture is kind of jarring especially when compared to the HD N64 remakes. Is it possible to clean that up without the stage going over file limit?

I still think Hyrule Castle and Metal Cavern are perfect. Kudos.

I thought of a question while playing SSE that I wanted to ask about stages. Had the team not stabilized SSE, could you have used those stages for new stuff and added them to the SSS or was that not possible?

 

[shapular]

Wouldn't Brawl's gameplay have something to do with what stages were considered valid and what weren't though?

I don't get what you're saying. It still plays like a Smash game. There's nothing in Melee or PM that suddenly makes those stages banned. I guess maybe Frigate would be banned in Melee since gimps are way too good in that game.

 

[Piford]

I don't get what you're saying. It still plays like a Smash game. There's nothing in Melee or PM that suddenly makes those stages banned. I guess maybe Frigate would be banned in Melee since gimps are way too good in that game.

Well if you take something like Castle Siege, it could be legal in brawl because, while chaingrabs were a problem, the temporary nature of the walk-off helps to stop abusing it. In Project M, you now have chain grabs and waveshining to deal with, which makes that second transformaiton a lot worse (when it was removed it was pretty good).

 

[shapular]

Well if you take something like Castle Siege, it could be legal in brawl because, while chaingrabs were a problem, the temporary nature of the walk-off helps to stop abusing it. In Project M, you now have chain grabs and waveshining to deal with, which makes that second transformaiton a lot worse (when it was removed it was pretty good).

So, one more character? Maybe not even that because as far as I know there aren't really any characters that can carry you across the stage with a chaingrab like Brawl DDD. Even then, just ban the stage against Fox if you feel like you're going to get waveshined into the walkoff.

 

[Strong Badam]

The banning criteria is clearly different from community to community and Brawl's does not prevail in PM. PS1 for example is legal in both Melee and Brawl; this stage becomes a very poor tournament stage in PM because of redundancy with PS2 and being objectively worse for competition. Furthermore, Melee & Brawl are limited in their competitive stagelists by design. There simply aren't enough viable stages in the game to allow the type of banning criteria used in the PM community. If they were used, their stagelists would be 5 or less stages, forcing major issues in Bo5 sets and preventing DSR (Melee already has this issue). In PM, there's no fear of this; you're welcome to ban several stages that would otherwise have to be legal in other games, for a variety of reasons. To balance the stagelist based on archetypes (small, big, platform layout, blastzones), or to balance gameplay. Project M is a unique case and its stage banning criteria should also be unique, and not be dictated by that of other similar, but not entirely equivalent games.

Also, unrelated to the argument, it's quite rude to call people's opinions bad, or state that your opinion is somehow objectively correct. If your argument were truly sound you wouldn't feel the need to do something like that.

 

[Floati]

This isn't a huge deal and it's likely been brought up, but just in case:

It'd be nice to have the option to turn the training stage "off" for random stages
Also relating to the training stage, there are now platforms in the middle... It is impossible for anything to land on them though?

Btw I love both the new Norfair (seriously great) and the new Distant Planet (I loved the previous one as well)
Thanks PMBR

 

[Kati]

turn off every stage including the all button and then turn your stages back on. This should prevent the training stage from appearing I think.

 

[EddyBearr]

Metal Cavern is beautiful.

Tournament legal, please.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Uuuuuuh no? What do you mean by that?

I don't have any static but is the music supposed to drown everything out? It could be something on my end (idk what?) but the music is so loud you can barley hear the fighters and other sounds.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Regarding Part 2 of Castle Siege:

How about 2 relativity hard to break pillars be added to the sides of the stage similar to the ones on Shadow Moses (maybe even harder to break) and (if possible) the ceiling be lowered for that part alone.
1- the pillars would solve people trying to do "jank" with the walk offs, and 2- the lowered ceiling would encourage kills of the top so players wouldn't feel they need to break the pillars to KO.

Also if the ceiling shouldn't/couldn't be lowered this could essentially serve as the "rack up damage/combos part" of the stage while the 1st and 3rd would be the "KO parts".

 

[Leafeon]

Regarding Part 2 of Castle Siege:

How about 2 relativity hard to break pillars be added to the sides of the stage similar to the ones on Shadow Moses (maybe even harder to break) and (if possible) the ceiling be lowered for that part alone.
1- the pillars would solve people trying to do "jank" with the walk offs, and 2- the lowered ceiling would encourage kills of the top so players wouldn't feel they need to break the pillars to KO.

Also if the ceiling shouldn't/couldn't be lowered this could essentially serve as the "rack up damage/combos part" of the stage while the 1st and 3rd would be the "KO parts".

Doesn't solve the "jank" with wall combos.

Honestly the idea that the stage needs to be tourney legal needs to be abandoned and some real fire emblem-like transformations would be cool to see. imo Nintendo was lazy with the original, I wasn't impressed with it. (I like the layout of the original form, but the other forms didn't really feel immersed in fire emblem, felt like going through some rather random transformations. Something like Bridge of Eldin-esque could have been done where multiple units would attack each other on the ground of the stage as a hazard, but who knows, doing Fire Emblem now that I think about it is pretty tough as far as interesting stage ideas go.)

imo don't worry too much about castle siege, even if you brought it down to its original form without transformations, the TOs probably wouldn't have it as part of their set anyway. So adding back in the 2nd form as it was already is fine.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Doesn't solve the "jank" with wall combos.

Honestly the idea that the stage needs to be tourney legal needs to be abandoned and some real fire emblem-like transformations would be cool to see. imo Nintendo was lazy with the original, I wasn't impressed with it. (I like the layout of the original form, but the other forms didn't really feel immersed in fire emblem, felt like going through some rather random transformations. Something like Bridge of Eldin-esque could have been done where multiple units would attack each other on the ground of the stage as a hazard, but who knows, doing Fire Emblem now that I think about it is pretty tough as far as interesting stage ideas go.)

imo don't worry too much about castle siege, even if you brought it down to its original form without transformations, the TOs probably wouldn't have it as part of their set anyway. So adding back in the 2nd form as it was already is fine.

Yes. But its still better than walk offs...

And I wasn't trying to suggest things to make it "tourney viable". I was just thinking how to make it more interesting/fun to play. many people (including myself) don't enjoy walk offs all that much. So I thought adding the "walls" would make it tolerable.

 

[JOE!]

were any stages tweaked in terms of blastzones/etc from 3.02? Aside from the obviously revamped ones like Metal Cavern, I had some stage textures for my local scene that I wanna make sure I can just put back on as-is

 

[TreK]

I thought you would fix the tether glitch with randall
There's no way I'm putting YS as a starter until that is fixed tbh.

Dreamland still sucks even if it's SO PRETTYYYYYY. Norfair and Skyworld are better big stage starter candidates than Dreamland, you should put one of those on the first line instead imo

I'm glad you didn't change the edges on Lylat <3

The two features I would like the final build of PM to have :
-4 songs on every stage
-a software to change the position of the stages without having to know how to code

 

[Sandfall]

I thought you would fix the tether glitch with randall
There's no way I'm putting YS as a starter until that is fixed tbh.

Dreamland still sucks even if it's SO PRETTYYYYYY. Norfair and Skyworld are better big stage starter candidates than Dreamland, you should put one of those on the first line instead imo

I'm glad you didn't change the edges on Lylat <3

The two features I would like the final build of PM to have :
-4 songs on every stage
-a software to change the position of the stages without having to know how to code

There's not much I can do about the Randall thing. It's a tether issue, not a stage issue.

The 4 songs thing isn't really feasible at the moment. There's already a program for editing the SSS though: http://www.lakora.us/brawl/ssseditor/

I don't have any static but is the music supposed to drown everything out? It could be something on my end (idk what?) but the music is so loud you can barley hear the fighters and other sounds.

I'll see if the BRSTM can be made softer. It's a tad bit too loud for me as well.

EDIT: feasible, not readable... IDK what happened there. Autocorrect probably

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

So, we are talking about ...IDK WTH..are we talking about? Could you go back to including the stage in question, to the title of the thread .-. ? I'm lazy, so you don't need to cater to me er anything. Anyway, make Castle Siege not transform at all. I want just transformation 1. Yes.

 

[Sandfall]

So, we are talking about ...IDK WTH..are we talking about? Could you go back to including the stage in question, to the title of the thread .-. ? I'm lazy, so you don't need to cater to me er anything. Anyway, make Castle Siege not transform at all. I want just transformation 1. Yes.

We are currently taking feedback on all stages changed in 3.5. Normal stage discussions will resume in about a week.

 

[BananaBolts]

I always hated Dracula's Castle. It's ugly, it's too big, and most importantly, it's not from a Nintendo game (or games for any third-party character in the game).

Dracula's Castle is inspired by Castlevania, a game that is canonically featured on Nintendo systems.

 

[shapular]

Dreamland still sucks even if it's SO PRETTYYYYYY. Norfair and Skyworld are better big stage starter candidates than Dreamland, you should put one of those on the first line instead imo

I agree with Skyworld. I wouldn't call Norfair a big stage. I consider it a medium stage.

Dracula's Castle is inspired by Castlevania, a game that is canonically featured on Nintendo systems.

It just doesn't feel right to me. I know it's not a legit complaint.

Edit: I played some Hanenbow last night. I think it's a legit stage.

 

[Chevy]

I love the new Distant Planet texture, and I really liked the stage in 3.02, glad to see it bottom row. But, the way the tree curves at the bottom blastzone screws up a lot of recoveries and interacts really messily with a lot of characters. Walljumping off of it feels and looks weird, and it's my only complaint about an otherwise perfect stage. I would love to see the bottom walls straightened out.

 

[shapular]

I love the new Distant Planet texture, and I really liked the stage in 3.02, glad to see it bottom row. But, the way the tree curves at the bottom blastzone screws up a lot of recoveries and interacts really messily with a lot of characters. Walljumping off of it feels and looks weird, and it's my only complaint about an otherwise perfect stage. I would love to see the bottom walls straightened out.

I was having trouble figuring out how to recover on it properly with Zelda last night. The bottom slope goes out farther than the top slope so if you end up down there you either have to up B straight up and not sweetspot or try to angle in and hope you don't get stuck because of her up B glitch. I haven't tested it enough to know if it's a real problem though.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

I don't know if this counts as stage discussion, but Skyloft and Dracula's Castle should really be on page 1 of the stage selection screen. The top row of page 1 in 3.5 is kind of weird...

Anyway, after playing more 3.5, I'm amazed by how much better the new Yoshi's Island is. The changes made in 3.5 are a substantial improvement.

Also, I remember hearing sometime around 2.6 that the transformations of Castle Siege cannot be removed, and that the best that could be done to make the stage more competitive was removing the 2nd transformation. I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer having the 1st transformation only and the stage never transforms. So, am I correct in believing that the transformative aspects of Castle Siege cannot be removed due to coding impossibilities?

(For the record, if transformations can't be removed entirely, I definitely think that Castle Siege would be better off in its original Brawl form and left as a hectic casual stage instead of a semi-competitive-but-not-really stage that no one plays on competitively in PM anyway.)

 

[shapular]

I don't know if this counts as stage discussion, but Skyloft and Dracula's Castle should really be on page 1 of the stage selection screen. The top row of page 1 in 3.5 is kind of weird...

Anyway, after playing more 3.5, I'm amazed by how much better the new Yoshi's Island is. The changes made in 3.5 are a substantial improvement.

Also, I remember hearing sometime around 2.6 that the transformations of Castle Siege cannot be removed, and that the best that could be done to make the stage more competitive was removing the 2nd transformation. I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer having the 1st transformation only and the stage never transforms. So, am I correct in believing that the transformative aspects of Castle Siege cannot be removed due to coding impossibilities?

(For the record, if transformations can't be removed entirely, I definitely think that Castle Siege would be better off in its original Brawl form and left as a hectic casual stage instead of a semi-competitive-but-not-really stage that no one plays on competitively anyway.)

Please stop calling Castle Siege a "hectic casual stage". You're basically disrespecting every Brawl player and TO who uses that stage.

 

[JCOnyx]

Please stop calling Castle Siege a "hectic casual stage". You're basically disrespecting every Brawl player and TO who uses that stage.

I'm just going to say that this is PM and not Melee/Brawl. Get that PS1 and Castle Siege outta here if they're going to keep their intrusive/obnoxious transformations. I'm extremely happy that they're both on page 2 now.

This isn't saying I don't enjoy playing on them from time to time, but they have no place being on page 1 or being legal stages if they keep their current designs. I don't want them on page 1 specifically because people would start talking about them being legal again. Having the top row being mostly fun and totally not legal stages was a good call.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

When I first saw Infinite Glacier in-game,I was unimpressed.I thought it was bad design(too big),and that opinion didn't change when I fought CPUs on it.
Then I had a match with another human,and discovered what wavedashing was like on it.Geez,it's so fun.
Now I love it.Unfortunately though,the hazards make it unlikely to be compatible with competitive play.
It's a very odd stage,the way the water is like a lower hole(that you can escape from) due to the fish.The middle platform dropping can be annoying too.
Don't get me wrong,though,I love it.So fun to have everyone experience Luigi and Mewtwo wavedashes.

 

[TreK]

A quick note about dreamland : the spawn positions are not even, this should be avoided if possible imo.

 

[shapular]

A quick note about dreamland : the spawn positions are not even, this should be avoided if possible imo.

Doesn't Brawl always give you neutral starting positions in a 1v1? Did PM change that?