Honor
Smash Apprentice
Looks like Fox discussion is pretty much done.
Can we talk more about the Yellow Rat that is impossible to hit?
Can we talk more about the Yellow Rat that is impossible to hit?
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I'm all for it I seriously just Johed the write up because I felt like I would be talking out of my butt.Looks like Fox discussion is pretty much done.
Can we talk more about the Yellow Rat that is impossible to hit?
It feels like those three things are my only tools in the MUtl;dr to pikachu:
You know what moves are hard to beat: Up Tilt, Quick Attack, Back Air
Don't challenge them or attempt immediate punishments unless you're ahead of the ball game in pressure.
Sometimes a mindset of holding shield and minimising impact of getting grabbed (against Pika it usually isn't scary beyond early percent).
Slow and steady wins the race.
Why I Alt. Mario ._.tl;dr to pikachu:
You know what moves are hard to beat: Up Tilt, Quick Attack, Back Air
Don't challenge them or attempt immediate punishments unless you're ahead of the ball game in pressure.
Sometimes a mindset of holding shield and minimising impact of getting grabbed (against Pika it usually isn't scary beyond early percent).
Slow and steady wins the race.
A bit sorry for just barging in the discussion like this, but cloud seems to have very solid zoning tools that give ZSS a very very hard time.
https://youtu.be/lOCVLG7DaMk?t=9m3s
Nairo was 2stocked by Tweek in this video, as you can see Cloud is very fast and his crazy large aerial disjointed hitboxes give him priority over most of Zamus' options. (I think his projectile might also beat the paralyser but I haven't tested)
On top of that Cloud has kill confirms with his sourspot Dair and falling Uair that are generally much safer than Zamus' grab for downthrow. This would probably be a good matchup to talk about.
I totally agree, and to add to this: Don't try to punish up-smash unless it hits your shield/powershield, or you know the player will tend to hold shield afterwards. It recovers faster than you think, and if your opponent decides to go for a down-tilt, it'll probably beat out whatever option you were gonna try to punish with.here's what I got:
Fair is safe on shield. Nair stuffs us and autocancels. Don't challenge DAIR, or UAIR. Instead power shield Dair, and jump out of Uair. Limit break Side B is unpunishable. I find that Dt-Uair-Uair-UpB works at 48-55%. Flip Kick back to to the ledge and kick Cloud's ****ty UpB back to the depths. Try to hit him horizontally. Be around mid distance from him, close enough to keep him from camping and charging, but far enough to avoid his sword.
Yeah I agree with you, Cloud doesn't seem to be as much of a force as I thought.Cloud is at least even or slightly in our favour.
We have good tools to beat his range, we have better evading options than most of the cast especially thanks to flip kick and we have an easy time gimping him offstage.
Also his limit actually helps us combo him longer.
I recommend watching the bayo/corrin niconico tourney from yesterday. Nairo beat a very good cloud quite significantly, including a 0 to kill with a hype kick gimp.
I actually don't lol, sorry.Yeah I agree with you, Cloud doesn't seem to be as much of a force as I thought.
Also, didja have a link to that match?
I know Cloud mains must be tired of hearing the argument that his recovery is SOOOO BAAAAAD but seriously, I don't think there are many if any other characters that get flip kick spiked as easily as he does.I think the main thing about the Cloud match up is just how freely he gets combo'd like a fatty.
Otherwise what he has is realistically difficult for her to handle head on like she can against most other characters.
She can have a good time opting for crawls a lot though.
Oh and then there is flip jump against his bull **** disjoints on his vertical stalling/recovering that 90% of the cast cannot beat but yay beeeeg disjoint on our heel~
I know this sounds dumb but I have literally seen shulks start a tournament match VS me in a monado I don't like (speed) and since I'm at 0 I literally say eff it and just tether on the ledge to stall for time, I mean what's he gonna do Spike me at 0% and then gimp zss of all people so close to wall jump country?If you are having a problem with a certain monado, just camp it out. He is much more punishable if he is trying to force an approach in a limited timeframe, and he can't be buster all the time.
so many thing literally clash with blade beam IIRC you can most likely cancel it out and counter attack with zair.And how on Earth do I approach the Cloud matchup? I can't even get close. He can spam Blade Beam more easily than I can return fire, and seem to fall prey to all his moves, lose priority every time, and so on.
I kinda feel like have a lot of grid lock type standoffs of 50/50'sI think Bayonetta
is a negative MU for us, but not hugely. Can explain in more detail later, having pretty good experience with Bayos of all stripes at this point.
I *still* don't know how I would rate the Cloud MU. I think people were far too hasty in rushing to write it off as bad for us, and I think we have plenty of tools to play it well, including down B which dumpsters his recovery at any %. My thinking so far is that a lot of the struggle in that MU is because we have to play it a little more uncomfortably than most others, and that this contributes to a lot of people thinking it's worse than it is.