Official Metaknight Discussion

[Chuee]

It's going to be so embarrassing when some MK player wins thousands of dollars at MLG by planking/scrooging the entire match (depending on what the so-called LGL is, if any).

Brawl will become the laughingstock of the entire video game community.

Maybe you should try being more realistic.

 

[Delvro]

Maybe you should try being more realistic.

I very strongly suggest that you read DMG's planking data.... it seems you are under the impression that planking is beatable. You would be wrong.

Welcome to the future of Brawl.

 

[TeeVee]

It's going to be so embarrassing when some MK player wins thousands of dollars at MLG by planking/scrooging the entire match (depending on what the so-called LGL is, if any).

Brawl will become the laughingstock of the entire video game community.

no, there's going to be a ledgegrab rule and a snake/diddy will win just like the past 2 nationals.

 

[Delvro]

no, there's going to be a ledgegrab rule and a snake/diddy will win just like the past 2 nationals.

Oh, a ledgegrab rule..... less planking, more scrooging.

Oh, but scrooging is beatable. Just go under the stage and shoot a laser!


..... and now you're under the stage vs MK, gg.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

TO ALL PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT A LEDGE GRAB LIMIT.

Please answer the following questions with either yes or no only.

Are you under the impression that the Ledge Grab Limits are necessary for any character other than Metaknight?

 

[Judge Judy]

Are you under the impression that the Ledge Grab Limits are necessary for any character other than Metaknight?

If you're assuming that I'm strongly opposed to planking and feel that there should be a ledge grab limit, then yes.

 

[MarKO X]

If you're assuming that I'm strongly opposed to planking and feel that there should be a ledge grab limit, then yes.

this is where the fun begins...
what characters is the ledge grab limit necessary for?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

TO ALL PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT A LEDGE GRAB LIMIT.

Please answer the following questions with either yes or no only.

Are you under the impression that the Ledge Grab Limits are necessary for any character other than Metaknight?

Yes.

Yes or no.

Do you believe that planking with characters that aren't Metaknight is "broken" in the sense of being realistically unstoppable?

 

[Judge Judy]

this is where the fun begins...
what characters is the ledge grab limit necessary for?

If you're going to have it, it's going to have to be applied to every character. Who really needs it, that up for debate but still not really all that important; planking in itself is a "broken" tactic that promotes camping and can be abused to varying degrees with every character. MK is extremely apt at planking, but there are other noteworthy ones as well; G&W and Mario off the top of my head.

Do you believe that planking with characters that aren't Metaknight is broken?

The question is do I think planking is broken period, possibly, but I'm not going to set aside MK alone for that.

 

[Spelt]

So you are agreeing Melee fox is no less broken than MK.

It's a comparison.
If i compare a bread crumb to a loaf of bread does that mean the crumb is as filling as the loaf? Does it mean it has as much nutritional value?
If i compare a dog to a cat does that mean they both meow?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

If you're going to have it, it's going to have to be applied to every character. Who really needs it, that up for debate but still not really all that important; planking in itself is a "broken" tactic that promotes camping and can be abused to varying degrees with every character. MK is extremely apt at planking, but there are other noteworthy ones as well; G&W and Mario off the top of my head.



The question is do I think planking is broken period, possibly, but I'm not going to set aside MK alone for that.

Yes or no.

Do you believe that planking with characters that aren't Metaknight is "broken" in the sense of being realistically unstoppable?

Yes or no, please. We have established that MK's planking is provably broken and bannable, can I assume that that is a yes then?

 

[ElDominio]

Maybe you should try being more realistic.

Good job on not replying to Budget...

And remember, we're (PR) living proof of how Brawl is dying....

MK is broken, and it should take an important national like the MLG Circuit to help Brawl die.

Action needs to be taken ASAP. Oh and, yay, ADHD said it was 50-50. He is God now, he knows everything. The only thing is, you take two random players, tell the both to press B, and make one choose MK and another Diddy, then tells me who wins.

 

[MarKO X]

If you're going to have it, it's going to have to be applied to every character. Who really needs it, that up for debate but still not really all that important; planking in itself is a "broken" tactic that promotes camping and can be abused to varying degrees with every character. MK is extremely apt at planking, but there are other noteworthy ones as well; G&W and Mario off the top of my head.

how is planking broken?
how does planking promote camping differently from Falco's lasers or Snake's... well, gameplay?
if there are exploitable holes in a character's planking, how is it broken?

 

[Judge Judy]

Yes or no, please. We have established that MK's planking is provably broken and bannable, can I assume that that is a yes then?

I answered yes 2 posts ago, but yes, I say yes.

 

[MarKO X]

Action needs to be taken ASAP. Oh and, yay, ADHD said it was 50-50. He is God now, he knows everything. The only thing is, you take two random players, tell the both to press B, and make one choose MK and another Diddy, then tells me who wins.

That's unfair, because with this logic, Falco beats MK.

 

[DMG]

inb4 DMG "i do it all the time but never win tourneys lol"

I actually don't plank much in tournament. I time people out pretty frequently though with Wario. I can plank well, it's not hard to learn and perform correctly, but I play as Wario mostly in tournament where planking is not that good of an option for me to try lol. However, I have been picking up MK actually, slowly but surely, and I'm confident enough to bring it out in tournament. This weekend is No Koast, and I plan on planking some if needed.

 

[Judge Judy]

how is planking broken?
how does planking promote camping differently from Falco's lasers or Snake's... well, gameplay?
if there are exploitable holes in a character's planking, how is it broken?

Yeah, exactly, even MK's isn't 100% perfect; 6 frames is still 6 frames.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

TO ALL PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT A LEDGE GRAB LIMIT.

Please answer the following questions with either yes or no only.

Are you under the impression that the Ledge Grab Limits are necessary for any character other than Metaknight?

Yes.

Yes or no.

Do you believe that planking with characters that aren't Metaknight is "broken" in the sense of being realistically unstoppable?

I answered yes 2 posts ago, but yes, I say yes.

Game and Watch's planking has, according to the frame data, large holes in it that can be abused and is therefore more likely to be categorized as normal camping/finding an advantaged situation than stalling. Do you want planking to be banned for Game and Watch, although it clearly is not broken?

 

[Judge Judy]

Game and Watch's planking has, according to the frame data, large holes in it that can be abused and is therefore more likely to be categorized as normal camping/finding an advantaged situation than stalling. Do you want planking to be banned for Game and Watch, although it clearly is not broken?

It depends on how you're defining broken; it's stalling all the same.

 

[MarKO X]

Yeah, exactly, even MK's isn't 100% perfect; 6 frames is still 6 frames.

rofl @ you using MK (the broken character in question) as an example. You also stated G&W and Mario... how about you use those guys as examples...
let's try again:

how is planking broken?
how does planking promote camping differently from Falco's lasers or Snake's... well, gameplay?
if there are exploitable holes in a character's planking, how is it broken?

 

[Judge Judy]

how is planking broken?
how does planking promote camping differently from Falco's lasers or Snake's... well, gameplay?
if there are exploitable holes in a character's planking, how is it broken?

It depends on how you want to define "broken", but basically it's stalling.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

If we limit how much time Game&Watch spends at the ledge, we should limit how much time Falco spends on stage.

 

[DMG]

Judge Judy, do you want Air Camping Banned? Cause people use that for stalling too

 

[Spelt]

Recent anti-ban arguments make me sad. Everyone one has conveniently ignored all of the charts and data pro-ban has put forward. And what do you have?

"LOLOLOLOL planking's already banned and m2k loses to diddy. LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE WRONG. :D :D :D :D :D :D"

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It depends on how you're defining broken; it's stalling all the same.

No, it isn't. It's achieving a superior position. Camping on and around the ledge for G&W is like what being onstage is for Link-a good place to be.

YES OR NO.

 

[Judge Judy]

If we limit how much time Game&Watch spends at the ledge, we should limit how much time Falco spends on stage.

Planking is a form of stalling, it's up to you whether or not you believe it needs to limited.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

JJ, no it isn't. It is NOT stalling unless it is 100% impenetrable. As in, it's impossible to stop the other person from doing it at all/effectively enough for it to matter (like MK: sure, in those 6 frames,, you can SDI out of a powershield of a move that comes out in like 3 frames and grab the ledge, but then MK just runs to the other ledge while you're in lag). We have established that MK's planking is, in fact, very close to stalling. As G&W/Pit, it is merely an extremely advantaged position. Now answer the question. Yes or no.

Game and Watch's planking has, according to the frame data, large holes in it that can be abused and is therefore more likely to be categorized as normal camping/finding an advantaged situation than stalling. Do you want planking to be banned for Game and Watch, although it clearly is not broken?

 

[Spelt]

If planking is truly stalling why do we need LGLs to deal with it? There's already a stalling rule in place, and should cover anything defined as such, which in your opinion means planking.

 

[Judge Judy]

JJ, no it isn't. It is NOT stalling unless it is 100% impenetrable.

At the discretion of a judge; no, not me.

As in, it's impossible to stop the other person from doing it at all/effectively enough for it to matter (like MK: sure, in those 6 frames,, you can SDI out of a powershield of a move that comes out in like 3 frames and grab the ledge, but then MK just runs to the other ledge while you're in lag). We have established that MK's planking is, in fact, very close to stalling. As G&W/Pit, it is merely an extremely advantaged position.

Pretty much, so what do you think? Do you think MK's planking is close enough to be considered stalling? Where do you want to draw the line?

No, it isn't. It's achieving a superior position. Camping on and around the ledge for G&W is like what being onstage is for Link-a good place to be.

The idea is to gain a lead and then stall for as long as you need to. The question is whether or not it's too unpunisable to be broken.

YES OR NO.

I've said yes quite a few times, no need to keep reposting the same question in caps.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

TO ALL PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT A LEDGE GRAB LIMIT.

Please answer the following questions with either yes or no only.

Are you under the impression that the Ledge Grab Limits are necessary for any character other than Metaknight?

Yes.

Yes or no.

Do you believe that planking with characters that aren't Metaknight is "broken" in the sense of being realistically unstoppable?

I answered yes 2 posts ago, but yes, I say yes.

Game and Watch's planking has, according to the frame data, large holes in it that can be abused and is therefore more likely to be categorized as normal camping/finding an advantaged situation than stalling. Do you want planking to be banned for Game and Watch, although it clearly is not broken?

I've said yes quite a few times, no need to keep reposting the same question in caps.

It's not the question, I'm telling you to just answer yes or no.


So you support banning tactics and the like which are not broken, is this correct?

 

[Judge Judy]

So you support banning tactics and the like which are not broken, is this correct?

That's clearly a charged question; first define the boundaries in which you are defining "broken", once you do that, I'll answer.

 

[HeroMystic]

lol, J.J. isn't dumb enough to leash, guys.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That's clearly a charged question; first define the boundaries in which you are defining "broken", once you do that, I'll answer.

A broken tactic is one which is realistically unsurmountable; a broken character is one that provides a nearly unsurmountable advantage.

By this definition, G&W's planking is by no means broken. You however advocate banning it regardless. Why?

EDIT: are you pro or anti-ban?

 

[Judge Judy]

A broken tactic is one which is realistically unsurmountable; a broken character is one that provides a nearly unsurmountable advantage.

Unsurmountable? You must mean insurmountable. Nevertheless, be more specific.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Unsurmountable? You must mean insurmountable. Nevertheless, be more specific.

Examples:
-Metaknight's Infinite Dimensional Cape is broken. When done correctly, it makes the game virtually unplayable, and ensures that the MK automatically wins when he gets the lead.
-Metaknight's Planking is broken. When done correctly, there is a 6-frame window where MK can be hit, and in these 6 frames, he is covered by a large, disjointed hitbox above him. He can make himself immune to dropped items or lava or long-lasting projectiles with the IDC method. If you manage to play perfectly, the most you can do is grab the ledge from him, which also proves no solution because now you are in lag on the ledge, and MK has time to get on the stage and either edgeguard you like an *** or just run to the other ledge.
-Metaknight's Tornado is not broken. It makes some matchups incredibly hard, it has absurd risk/reward, but it is definitely realistically (and relatively easily for most, I might add) beatable.
-Game and Watch's planking is not broken. It is a position where he has a lot of advantages, and can be hard to beat (really hard) with the right mixups, but you can definitely beat it within reason.

I don't know what you mean with being more specific. Do you have a different definition of broken? Why would you ban G&W's planking if it's beatable?

 

[Mew2King]

What if ICs and Diddies started winning everything? What would we have to do?

BAN NANAS!!!!!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What if ICs and Diddies started winning everything? What would we have to do?

BAN NANAS!!!!!

This is a good post. Good one.

However, it's extremely doubtful that that will happen. Diddy has obscure counters that MK holds down, ICs have a lot of counters overall.

 

[alexgamer03]

What if ICs and Diddies started winning everything? What would we have to do?

BAN NANAS!!!!!

i'd shoot myself first.

 

[demonictoonlink]

IC's DON'T HAVE MANY, IF ANY, COUNTERS RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGEY RAGE

But really, unless your character CANNOT be grabbed or CANNOT be CG'd (only IC dittos), you don't hard counter them, if counter at all.

I love the statement Ban Nanas. It means ban bannanas, ban Nanas (popo's ho), and it spells bananas

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

i'd shoot myself first.

O.o

Before what?

@DTL: Lies. Snake.