Official Ganon/Ganondorf for Brawl (updated)

[TheBuzzSaw]

They just need to fix his unused moves: up-tilt, warlock punch, etc.

 

[chaos_Leader]

I recently submitted my Ganondorf/Ganon support thread to be placed into the sticky index

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=111421&page=4

Post #58

The link to my thread is here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=113523

 

[Blackadder]

They just need to fix his unused moves: up-tilt, warlock punch, etc.

Yeah, that's what I would agree with most here.
The moves that really where to slow to use in any decent combo, or single.

 

[MeLeo]

Ganondorf

Heavy, very very powerful, slow and full of evil lol, preety much the same as his melee status.

[...]

Hope you like it lol

Well if you look at the frame data I made for his moveset, all of his moves are now much faster than before. The problem with Ganondorf in Melee wasn't the start time to his moves. If you actually look into it (try Seanson's Hitbox thread if you don't have AR) like 95% of his moves come out the SAME EXACT frames as Captain Falcon's. The only difference is that the ENDLAG is higher for Ganondorf, he cannot tech punish as well due to a piece of crap grab, fox trot, and dashdance, and he can't capitalize on his throw-punish game as well because of his crappy midair jump.

Like I said in the thread, I feel his moveset just needs improvement, no large makeovers. Also, while magical attacks or fancy special moves may sound great, they don't mean squat if they can't function well together.

What good is magic ball for a projectile if it'll wind up like Luigi's fireball? i.e., you can't SHL like Falco. All I want is that the current high tier characters remain that, high tier (NO nerfing). Instead, bring up all the lower characters.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I could squeeze in up-tilts as edge-guards now and again, but the moves seriously need more dynamics such as being able to cancel them midway through or prematurely executing them for less damage/knockback.

 

[Blackadder]

I could squeeze in up-tilts as edge-guards now and again, but the moves seriously need more dynamics such as being able to cancel them midway through or prematurely executing them for less damage/knockback.

I just gave up on the up-tilt.
I could occasionally get in a Warlock Punch, but rarely, and it had to be done at very opportune moments.

But really, they can be both edited to perfection, or just changed to summat better all round.

 

[MeLeo]

They just need to fix his unused moves: up-tilt, warlock punch, etc.

Yeah, that's what I would agree with most here.
The moves that really where to slow to use in any decent combo, or single.

I could squeeze in up-tilts as edge-guards now and again, but the moves seriously need more dynamics such as being able to cancel them midway through or prematurely executing them for less damage/knockback.

I just gave up on the up-tilt.
I could occasionally get in a Warlock Punch, but rarely, and it had to be done at very opportune moments.

But really, they can be both edited to perfection, or just changed to summat better all round.

Exactly! I took this same frame of mind when I made my OFFICIAL Ganondorf THREAD:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=114365

His moveset is great, it just needed improvement. If you take a look at mine, I think you'll both agree that it is just what you two had in mind.

 

[Blackadder]

Exactly! I took this same frame of mind when I made my OFFICIAL Ganondorf THREAD:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=114365

His moveset is great, it just needed improvement. If you take a look at mine, I think you'll both agree that it is just what you two had in mind.

Huh, advertisment much?

But yes, I do agree with you on it all.
I really think his moves just need to be a little polished, and tested for effectiveness, and then you have a rather neat character.
But still, Sakurai listens to the majority, and right now, most people want him to have a sword.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

what are his weaknesses

 

[MeLeo]

what are his weaknesses

For my moveset, his biggest weaknesses are:

--His walk/run is still relatively slow (I said he should be just as fast as Mario, and Mario is like in the middle in terms of walking/running)
--No projectile (debatable)
--Same relatively slow start lag from first jump
--First jump still short
--His UpB can still be edgeguarded more easily than other characters (I just made the grab hitbox for it larger and allowed it to sweetspot)
--And last but not least he's still the tallest and one of the fattest characters

And so, while I did make all of his moves a heck of lot better, he still retains some key weaknesses. I realize that a character shouldn't be broken, and this Ganondorf moveset is not broken.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Ganondorf

​

Profile Data

Name: Ganondorf
Age: Ancient
Developer: Nintendo
First Appearance: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Other Notable Appearances: Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Legend of Zelda: Four Swords

Statistics
Height: 5/5
Weight: 5/5
Attack Speed: 2/5
Attack Power: 4/5
Attack Range: 4/5
Grab Range: 4/5
Running Speed: 2/5
Jump: 2/5
Falling Speed: 5/5

Regular Attacks:

A: Jab (7%)

AA: Elbow (7%)

AAA: Gut Punch (Not a repeating move. 10%)

Dash A: Gerudo Charge (Ganondorf extends his arm forwards, runs into a character, clamps the hand around the person’s face and shoves them to the ground as he jumps off them horizontally, skidding forward. 15%)

F Tilt: Plexus Pound (A brutal Ganondorf fist right into the abdomen, knocking the enemy away. 15%)

U Tilt: Dark Strike (Ganondorf delivers a crushing blow to the underside of a character’s head, knocking them up. 16%)

D Tilt: Dark Sweep (Ganondorf drops into a crouch as one leg lashes out, knocking those he hits off their feet. One of his quicker moves. 14%)

F Smash: Warlock Slam (Ganondorf claps the enemy round the head with both hands at the same time, and uses his well-placed hands to drag the face down into a knee smash that spirals the character away. 20% Uncharged, 30% Charged)

U Smash: Explosion Kick (Ganondorf brings his leg straight up until his shin touches his forehead, then slams it back down, causing an explosion on impact with the ground that hurls players. Unlike Melee, you can perform the attack at any point of the charge, so it’s not as slow and restrictive. 15% Uncharged, 35% Charged)

D Smash: Roundhouse (Ganondorf spins and thumps his heel deep into the hip of the opposition. His fastest smash move. 12% Uncharged, 27% Charged)

Aerial Attacks:

N Air: Flip Kick (Same as Melee, he flips, potentially striking with both feet. 8% each foot.)

F Air: Warlock Spiral (Ganondorf spins horizontally in midair to deliver a powerful punch, knocking opponents forward. 15%)

B Air: Double Elbow Slam (Ganondorf simply slams his elbows backwards, driving them into any opponent behind him for high knockback. 11%)

U Air: Shadow Pulse (Ganondorf drives his hand up, and it flares with purple fire as it hits, knocking characters for six. 16%)

D Air: Shadow Crash (Ganondorf drives his fist downwards as purple fire flares around him. A meteor smash of epic proportions is delivered from the end of this move. 24%)

Special Attacks:

B: Gerudo Smash (Ganondorf charges forward, in an arrempt to punch the foe high into the air with a burning fist. Same as the Forward B move of Melee. 15%)

Smash B: Shadow Projectile (Ganondorf shoots a ball of that shadowy magic he uses in the end of TP, which moves relatively fast and has a moderate range, about that of Mario’s fireballs. 10%)

Up B: Twili Warp (Ganondorf transforms into those black pixels and can be moved in any direction for the duration of the move. Tapping B when the pixels are close to or touching a character reverts Ganondorf, placing him into an aerial grab, just like his Up B from Melee. The move has moderate distance, a lot more than his regular jumps. 10%)

Down B: Swordplay (If Ganondorf has his sword sheathed, he draws it in a horizontal slash, to the front, doing excellent knockback when timed right. When he has the sword out, the slash is repeated with a flare of magic around the blade, dealing an extra 5%. When he has the sword drawn, Ganondorf moves slower and attacks slower, but has greater range with his moves, and deals slightly more damage. In addition, all the Special Moves are changed. 18%)
Note: I’m also debating preventing him from using most items while the sword is out, too. What’s your opinion?

B (Sword): Warlock Gore (Almost identical in animation to the Warlock Punch of Melee, this attack is an indefinite charger. As long as B is held, Ganondorf keeps charging the attack, at a hefty rate of around 10% per second. As soon as B is released, the attack is performed, stabbing the sword into the opponent’s gut.)

Smash B (Sword): Counter Blow (Ganondorf cuts across the chest of an opposing player. If timed just right, it will do an initial animation of blocking an attack, and has quite high blocking priority, before it slashes through the started opponent, dealing extra damage. 25%, 35% with a counter.)

Up B (Sword): Vortex (Ganondorf jumps, spinning vertically, cutting in a full 360-degree arc around him. Two rotations, and each hit deals a solid 18%. The final 90 degrees of the cut deal 25% instead. The jump is mostly upwards, low horizontal recovery, and quite a small jump in the first place.)

F Smash (Sword): Dark World Death (Ganondorf slashes downwards, which tends to pin characters in their spot, and then delivers a blazing magical knee slam. 25% Uncharged, 35% Charged)

Final Smash: Beast Within (Ganondorf morphs into Ganon for the remainder of the match.)

Grapple Attacks (Cannot be performed with Sword):

Grab: Gerudo Grip (Ganondorf reaches out and grasps a player, then pulls them in.)

Grab Attack: Beatdown (A series of slower strikes. 5%)

Forward Throw: 8%

Reverse Throw: 5%

Up Throw: 10%

Down Throw: 7%

Miscellaneous:

Edge Recovery: Footsmash (Ganondorf brings his fist/sword down on the area at the ledge, crushing the toes of anyone standing too close. 12%)

Aerial Tech: Air Grab (Ganondorf can perform his grabs in mid-air. If performed near an item, Ganondorf will grab the item instead. Ganondorf cannot use this with the sword out.)

Taunt: Ganondorf becomes a golden sphere of energy with his face distinguishable in the currents

Spoiler

, like how he appears to Zant in TP

. During the taunt, he becomes somewhat protected from flinching from projectile attacks.

I'm thinking of editting this one to change the Final Smash and remove Ganon altogether. Also, considering removing the sword stance from this and making Windwaker Ganondorf as a seperate moveset, cause that guy is incredibly awesome.

 

[MeLeo]

I agree with you on the WW Ganondorf, I think he (as well as the game) is underrated. WW Ganondorf added such a better personality to Ganondorf. In the old Zelda games, he was just a raging tyrant with no method to his maddness. WW Ganondorf, however, was so calm and collected. The brief bio he gave of himself and his homeland was excellent: How he was really just jealous of how happy, successful, and fertile Hyrule was. I think he said, correct me if I'm wrong, "I covetted those winds I suppose..."

BTW, love those pics you provided of Ganondorf, his blazing red hair will never dissapoint me

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

That's pretty much what he said. I just rewatched it on YouTube. Those three stages before the swordfight are just plain weird. Makes me wonder if he has a true Ganon form or if he's really just an awesome shapeshifter, at least in the WW timeline.

 

[MeLeo]

Well Miyamoto (creator of Zelda series) said that OoT is the first in the storyline of the entire Legend of Zelda series and that Ganondorf his his original, true form. So yea, Ganondorf is just an uber shapeshifter. I only wish they picked a wolf
Lol, but anyway, Miyamoto never released the entire comprehensive storyline to Zelda, although he claims it's on his computer.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Comprehensive storyline? Pfft. They class gameplay first, individual story second, and interrelatedness to other games last in most Zelda games. You can shoehorn a lot of it in, but only through sheer luck really... I don't think that Minish Cap and Four Swords/Four Swords Adventures were following this supposed timeline.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

you ever noticed the way ganons hair connects to his eyebrows?

 

[Hydde]

**** that sword!!! why oh why!!

he doesnt ned a sowrd...he is a god!

BTW there are 2 threads now------ what we are suposed to do?

I think this thread was first in the sticky than the one done by the Freakazoid avatar guy

 

[shminkledorf]

ya dat wud b cul

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Ganondorf should have two move sets. He starts without his sword and has the basic move set. Press down-B, he pulls out his sword, and his move set all changes. Press down-B again to put his sword away and revert to the first move set.

<3 Ganondorf

 

[Hydde]

I read thewhole first post...and altho i have diferent ideas about his moveset......... im DEEPLY glad that at least someone agrees with me that GANONDORF DOESNT NEED THAT GODDAM SWORD.



I dont have t state anything more............... all the reasons u said about why a sword is crap for him are 100% valid. Hats off


Ill come later with my own moveset from ganondorf. Ill make him more of a warlock than a marcial artist..... but without leaving the essence of Melee´s Ganondorf.

BTW im a marth user....and WE DONT NEED MORE SWORDMEN


at least not in the same way the old ones are made. Ike fills perfectly the heavy swordman line...and ganon have so much power that the sword of sages is not worthy for him.

 

[SenorPresidente]

I would mainly want ganon to return with his sword but i really just want him to return.

 

[dsoreo39]

sweet stuff!

i like the thread, but i really want him with a sword

 

[IllidR]

i like the thread, but i really want him with a sword

Ehh, I don't want him to use his sword.. That could create the possibility if they were to include Black Knight he'd be a clone of Ganondorf. So Ganondorf without his sword ftw.

 

[SenorPresidente]

Ganon will mostly likely have a sword. The link and zelda they have are from TP so its obious that ganon will be from TP. In the final battle Ganon uses his sword so there fore ganon will have his sword.

 

[Wyvern]

Hey, no fair! The other thread predates this one by about a week. It already has a debate in it and everything! A debate I was winning, even! I guess if the mods decide to keep this one, I could just move my arguments for an unarmed Ganondorf over here...but they're really heavy! I don't want to have to carry them that far.

EDIT: Heh, looks like the two threads got merged together somehow. Move along, nothing to see here...

 

[Hydde]

Ganon will mostly likely have a sword. The link and zelda they have are from TP so its obious that ganon will be from TP. In the final battle Ganon uses his sword so there fore ganon will have his sword.

Zelda's design is from Twilgith Princess...... but her attacks are from Ocarina of time...also she have a sword in TP....

but guess what.... she doesnt do aything from TP in Brawl so far....... so your reasoning is obviously not so obvious,.,..

and is NOT A FACT he will have a sword.

 

[SenorPresidente]

Zelda's design is from Twilgith Princess...... but her attacks are from Ocarina of time...also she have a sword in TP....

but guess what.... she doesnt do aything from TP in Brawl so far....... so your reasoning is obviously not so obvious,.,..

and is NOT A FACT he will have a sword.

Well true that zelda uses moves from ocarina but by looking at Links boomerang and claw shot we can see that his moves have changed to match TP. So i guess its a 1 : 1

 

[Hydde]

Yeah! that right

1-1


It can go in both ways...... but we certaintly not know. So is not a fact

 

[MR.WIGZ]

um we never see zelda fight, all she ever does is shoot light arrows. so making a new moveset for her TP look is not neccesary

she doesnt really use the sword, ganon was possesing her at the time

 

[Hydde]

She used the sword to thrw somelighting.... thats enough for me to say that she could easily wield tthe sword in Brawl. Possesed or not, the fact that the character showed some moves that could be potentially used in Brawl is enough for me.

This is the way u guys are stating of why ganon must have the sword... because he used it in the final fight in TP and nothing more.

And yes we have a Thread issue here:

The old thread was before this one.... but the guy who did this thread proclaimed it to be the official while the other not.


I call for a merging or something...... but if not, i think the guy who posted first have the upper hand...


i dont know let the mods decide.

 

[Noshiee]

Well true that zelda uses moves from ocarina but by looking at Links boomerang and claw shot we can see that his moves have changed to match TP. So i guess its a 1 : 1

well theyre the same moves of OoT but with different looking items/weapons, the only difference is that the bomerang brings people closer and the spin attack can be charged, which could also be charged in OoT.

 

[Tau]

why are there two ganondorf threads? i dont know which one i should look at now..

 

[MeLeo]

EDIT!: Update: Saturday 08/25/07 at 1:52 AM

I made the first of many updates to my first post, please check out what I updated. Also, please resond with any more comments/suggestions/criticisms, and keep debating on Ganondorf for Brawl.

If any of you come up with you own moveset that you would like me to quote and append to my first post, then please post it and ask me to do so! The moveset could be whatever you want, including a sword-based move-set or Ganon! Even though I myself don't want Ganon or a sword-based Ganondorf in Brawl, I still want people to see all the possibilities for him.​

 

[Shuma]

Ganondorf is Win. He will be in Brawl and then Brawl will b e win.

GANONDORF IS BRAWL!.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Wow you sure wrote a lot of info but I don't like what you have for Ganondorf...

Ganon as a final smash fits him perfectly...they are 1 being with Ganon being the boss of the first half Zelda games in the least and Ganondorf only added in OoT...

That's not my only concern with what you wrote of course...

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Yo, McLeo, if you wanna stick mine in the front page, go for it. Pics might make it clunky though, so whatever you reckon. It's back on Page 2. You'll see it.

Oh, and I'm currently musing a WW Ganon moveset with dual wielding, just for giggles. No point in trying to come up with a melee moveset really, since the Melee moveset was an awesome melee moveset. And yes, I did that intentionally.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

EDIT!: Update: Saturday 08/25/07 at 1:52 AM

I made the first of many updates to my first post, please check out what I updated. Also, please resond with any more comments/suggestions/criticisms, and keep debating on Ganondorf for Brawl.

If any of you come up with you own moveset that you would like me to quote and append to my first post, then please post it and ask me to do so! The moveset could be whatever you want, including a sword-based move-set or Ganon! Even though I myself don't want Ganon or a sword-based Ganondorf in Brawl, I still want people to see all the possibilities for him.​

What's wrong with Ganon...not an old school fan???

...I don't like most of the new school stuff myself...

 

[MeLeo]

Sure, I'll quote and append your moveset right now. Also, I actually would like if you guys gave me sword-based movesets or w/e to post. Despite my hopes and wishes, there is still a big chance Ganondorf will get a sword in Brawl. At least if you guys post up good movesets with a sword, Sakurai might see them and he won't turn Ganondorf into a Roy

EDIT: Vagrant Lustoid, can you edit the post where you posted your moveset and take out the quote box? SmashBoards doesn't allow us to quote quote boxes.

 

[SenorPresidente]

why are there two ganondorf threads? i dont know which one i should look at now..

I like this thread because it was here first. The other user fully well knew that this one already existed but still went ahead and made another one. GRADE A DOUCHE.

 

[Blackadder]

why are there two ganondorf threads? i dont know which one i should look at now..

No idea, but I like this one.
It seems cosy, and easier to go with.

But the other one will win out soon, and this one will be closed.
It looks more official and Uber, all up.