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Dont worry they can be regulated!!. Since im pretty sure ganon will **** in short range combat....giving him a shadow proyectile which travel the whole screen would make him too tough to handle.
The shadow dogs could somthing like a spirit which travel fast in front of ganon.... htting like 3 times but with a short range....and the size of them could be tweaked somehow to make them not as bis as in tp!. The 3 hits could do around 5-7% damage or maybe more.
Are you suggesting the dog things as his final smash or just one of his moves? His final smash would be cool if he turned into the beast Ganon like how Bowser's final smash is Giga Bowser.
no no im suggesting them as one of his b moves.....his single B or his forward B.....
now that i think about it.... what if you areable to charge it? something like marth´s and roy´s B?.
the more you charge, the bigger they are.....
To fix the size issue when fully charged.... ganon can sumon them from his back withis fist...then they com to the front and travel more or less the same distance.....but doing more damage, (imagine ganon doing a move like his warlock punch and throwing this things).
I have t point that this move will NOT have KO capabilities like the shadow ball or samus´s....... is only to rag up damage. It will send you flying eventually if you are in extreme damage tho.
Name: Ganondorf Age: Ancient Developer: Nintendo First Appearance: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Other Notable Appearances: Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
Dash A: Gerudo Charge (Ganondorf extends his arm forwards, runs into a character, clamps the hand around the person’s face and shoves them to the ground as he jumps off them horizontally, skidding forward. 15%)
F Tilt: Plexus Pound (A brutal Ganondorf fist right into the abdomen, knocking the enemy away. 15%)
U Tilt: Dark Strike (Ganondorf delivers a crushing blow to the underside of a character’s head, knocking them up. 16%)
D Tilt: Dark Sweep (Ganondorf drops into a crouch as one leg lashes out, knocking those he hits off their feet. One of his quicker moves. 14%)
F Smash: Warlock Slam (Ganondorf claps the enemy round the head with both hands at the same time, and uses his well-placed hands to drag the face down into a knee smash that spirals the character away. 20% Uncharged, 30% Charged)
U Smash: Explosion Kick (Ganondorf brings his leg straight up until his shin touches his forehead, then slams it back down, causing an explosion on impact with the ground that hurls players. Unlike Melee, you can perform the attack at any point of the charge, so it’s not as slow and restrictive. 15% Uncharged, 35% Charged)
D Smash: Roundhouse (Ganondorf spins and thumps his heel deep into the hip of the opposition. His fastest smash move. 12% Uncharged, 27% Charged)
Aerial Attacks:
N Air: Flip Kick (Same as Melee, he flips, potentially striking with both feet. 8% each foot.)
F Air: Warlock Spiral (Ganondorf spins horizontally in midair to deliver a powerful punch, knocking opponents forward. 15%)
B Air: Double Elbow Slam (Ganondorf simply slams his elbows backwards, driving them into any opponent behind him for high knockback. 11%)
U Air: Shadow Pulse (Ganondorf drives his hand up, and it flares with purple fire as it hits, knocking characters for six. 16%)
D Air: Shadow Crash (Ganondorf drives his fist downwards as purple fire flares around him. A meteor smash of epic proportions is delivered from the end of this move. 24%)
Special Attacks:
B: Gerudo Smash (Ganondorf charges forward, in an arrempt to punch the foe high into the air with a burning fist. Same as the Forward B move of Melee. 15%)
Smash B: Shadow Projectile (Ganondorf shoots a ball of that shadowy magic he uses in the end of TP, which moves relatively fast and has a moderate range, about that of Mario’s fireballs. 10%)
Up B: Twili Warp (Ganondorf transforms into those black pixels and can be moved in any direction for the duration of the move. Tapping B when the pixels are close to or touching a character reverts Ganondorf, placing him into an aerial grab, just like his Up B from Melee. The move has moderate distance, a lot more than his regular jumps. 10%)
Down B: Swordplay (If Ganondorf has his sword sheathed, he draws it in a horizontal slash, to the front, doing excellent knockback when timed right. When he has the sword out, the slash is repeated with a flare of magic around the blade, dealing an extra 5%. When he has the sword drawn, Ganondorf moves slower and attacks slower, but has greater range with his moves, and deals slightly more damage. In addition, all the Special Moves are changed. 18%) Note: I’m also debating preventing him from using most items while the sword is out, too. What’s your opinion?
B (Sword): Warlock Gore (Almost identical in animation to the Warlock Punch of Melee, this attack is an indefinite charger. As long as B is held, Ganondorf keeps charging the attack, at a hefty rate of around 10% per second. As soon as B is released, the attack is performed, stabbing the sword into the opponent’s gut.)
Smash B (Sword): Counter Blow (Ganondorf cuts across the chest of an opposing player. If timed just right, it will do an initial animation of blocking an attack, and has quite high blocking priority, before it slashes through the started opponent, dealing extra damage. 25%, 35% with a counter.)
Up B (Sword): Vortex (Ganondorf jumps, spinning vertically, cutting in a full 360-degree arc around him. Two rotations, and each hit deals a solid 18%. The final 90 degrees of the cut deal 25% instead. The jump is mostly upwards, low horizontal recovery, and quite a small jump in the first place.)
F Smash (Sword): Dark World Death (Ganondorf slashes downwards, which tends to pin characters in their spot, and then delivers a blazing magical knee slam. 25% Uncharged, 35% Charged)
Final Smash: Beast Within (Ganondorf morphs into Ganon for the remainder of the match.)
Grapple Attacks (Cannot be performed with Sword):
Grab: Gerudo Grip (Ganondorf reaches out and grasps a player, then pulls them in.)
Grab Attack: Beatdown (A series of slower strikes. 5%)
Forward Throw: 8%
Reverse Throw: 5%
Up Throw: 10%
Down Throw: 7%
Miscellaneous:
Edge Recovery: Footsmash (Ganondorf brings his fist/sword down on the area at the ledge, crushing the toes of anyone standing too close. 12%)
Aerial Tech: Air Grab (Ganondorf can perform his grabs in mid-air. If performed near an item, Ganondorf will grab the item instead. Ganondorf cannot use this with the sword out.)
Taunt: Ganondorf becomes a golden sphere of energy with his face distinguishable in the currents
, like how he appears to Zant in TP
. During the taunt, he becomes somewhat protected from flinching from projectile attacks.
Hrm... I'm trying to recall all the different moves Ganon has used over the years. Trident techniques, magical, other, whatever. I know of invisibility and fire bats (a whole ring of them). Any others?
I love Ganondorf in the Zelda Series, and play him alot in melee, so I am very exited to see him in Brawl.
For moves I can see the following.
Taunt - Ganon rears back and laughs.
A - Punch
AA - Punch Knee
AAA - Punch Knee Kick
AAA Continuisly - Punch Knee Kick Sword (Ganon Punches, then Knees and Kicks with the same leg, followed by grabbing his sword from his sheath, then spinning it like a buzz saw in front of him, Like that one Marth Win pose.
Ftilt - A long kick
Utilt - Sword swipe above (Ala Marth)
Dtilt - Sword strike (Marth's Third Forward B Down variation)
Fsmash - Warlock punch (Yup, chargeable)
Dsmash - Smashes fist onto the stage causing damage around him
Usmash - Same as Melee only with one kick
Uair - Flip kick
Dair - Same as Melee
Bair - Spins around and sword slashes
Fair - Like Marios
Nair - Spin kick
Dash - Basically his Dair only sideways.
B - Holds hand out and charges a magic bolt (OOT)
Side B - Slash with sword
Down B - Falcon Kick Variation
Up B - Dashes up and if connects Punches away, can repeat if connects.
Uthrow - Uppercut
Dthrow - Stomp
Fthrow - Launches forward like a baseball
Bthrow - Spins and kicks
Hit - Head butt
Final Smash - Ganon Transformation (OOT Ganon-ish, Sword and Trident attacks.
This is a Ganondorf moveset that appeared on another thread. Although I'm not to fond of all the moves, I find that the solution to the the Ganondorf sword wielding issue (highlighted in bold and blue) to be the perfect one:
APPEARANCE
Pretty much as seen above. Ganondorf´s sword would be held in his left hand, still in its sheath. He would draw it for certain attacks, combining it with his fists and grappling techniques to bring the hurt in multiple ways. It´d be cool if he were programmed to laugh cruelly whenever he KOs someone, or something like that.
A-ATTACKS ground A - First Strike (quick right hook to the foe´s face) A, A - Blunt Break (clocks enemy up the head with sheathed blade) A-Tilt Up - Dragon Kick (lifts leg high in the air--release for vertical kick) A-Tilt Side - Breathtaker (unsheaths sword to hit foe in gut with hilt) A-Tilt Down - Desert Flame (cape flies upward as purple fire is released around him--inflicts burn, but deals practically no knockback) Dash - End of the Line (grabs opponent´s face and throws them into the ground) Floor Recovery - Trickery (quickly unsheaths sword and slashes before standing straight up) Edge Recovery - Spring Blade (pulls self up with one hand and stabs downward in midair)
A-ATTACKS air A - Second Strike (far-reaching forward kick) A-Up - Magician´s Breath (breathes dark flames upward--inflicts burn) A Forward - Helm Breaker (claps in front of him to crush foe between palms--inflicts burn) A Backward - Surprise Slash (twirls back while drawing and slashing with blade) A-Down - Crater (dives downward, fists-first, creating a shockwave upon impact)
A-ATTACKS smash A-Smash Up - Black Moon (full-circle vertical spinning kick) A-Smash Forward - Rising King (two hits; first punches opponent slightly into the air, high damage and tiny knockback; second draws sword and slashes foe into oblivion, low damage but high knockback) A-Smash Down - Howling Darkness (thrusts sword into the ground; release to make him twist handle, causing dark flames to burst out from both sides--inflicts burn)
B-MOVES B - Cloudy Orb :: Press and hold B to make Ganondorf shift stance and face the screen, charing a relatively small orb of pitch-black darkness in his free hand. The orb doesn´t get bigger through charging, but more powerful. Finally, move the D-Pad in any direction and Ganondorf will rapidly chuck the Cloudy Orb toward the direction indicated, speed and power being indicated by charge time. The move has some lag as Ganondorf gets into position to charge. B Up - Feral Stab :: Ganondorf--stopping in midair--will unsheath his sword and throw the sheath diagonally upward, where it will also stop in midair. He then points his sword forward and instantly dashes at high speed toward the sheath so that the sword connects with it again, causing a shockwave of dark energy and knocking intercepted foes away. B Side - Floor Rapture :: Ganondorf unsheaths his sword and kneels to stab the ground in front of him with great strength, sinking the whole blade in. Instantly while he does this the blade of the sword will burst out of the ground a short distance in front of him, pointing diagonally upward. Release B to make Ganondorf retrieve and sheath his sword. B Down - Reverse :: Similar to Counter, Ganondorf holds his sheathed sword with both hands in front of him. If hit with a physical blow (as opposed to a projectile), Ganondorf will block the blow and his sword will begin to glow. Keep using this to block attacks and his sword will glow more strongly. When you use this move and then press A, Ganondorf will unsheath his sword with a mighty battlecry, which will shoot out purple burn-inflicting fireballs. The strength of the attack depends on the amount of blows blocked.
GRABS Grab - Grapple (grabs foe with one arm and lifts them above the ground) Hit - Rising Knee (knees foe in the gut) Throw-Up - Hurricane Blade (lightly tosses foe up, then sends them away with well-placed arching slash) Throw-Side - Wild Toss (runs a short distance forward, dragging foe against the floor, then hurls them forth) Throw-Down - Floor Breaker (casually drops foe and then stomps them with mighty, shockwave-making foot)
FINAL SMASH - Dark Morph :: Ganondorf transforms into TP´s Ganon, a feral beast about half the size of Giga Bowser. Ganon is significantly faster than Giga Bowser but still very powerful, and can pick off singular foes. Like with Bowser´s transformation, it doesn´t last long and should be taken full advantage of.
Like I said, some of the moves I like, some I don't, but I think the idea of Ganondorf just holding a sheathed sword in his off hand for his moveset is the perfect way to represent the King of Evil.
That Up B is almost identical to mine, lol, I like your ganondorf
Though I think his best Down B could be puching the ground and creating a wave of energy like he did in OoT.
His best Final Smash is him transforming into Ganon, that is the best bet, though it would be preety much the same as Giga Bowser exept if he uses the Ganon from TP, which would be I guess like Yochi's Final Smash, without his normal moveset, couse I guess Giga Bowser will be able to use Bowsers B attacks, and Yochi instead gets to fly freely across the screen breathing fire and shooting fire balls, though I don't know what TP Ganon would do as he just runs around the screen charging at you, being big, and making itself invisible. Only when he is announced or in case of being unlockable, when the game comes out and you figure it out by yourself lol.
95% chance of Ganondorf returning. I want him back, he was awsome in Melee! I was thinking his Final Smash could be turning into Ganon - Dark Beast from Twilight Princess.
I really don't think of Ganondorf as a clone of Captain Falcon. Sure, I felt that way when I first started the game, but now that I play Melee competitively, Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are really nothing alike. Yeah, Nintendo borrowed a couple 3D models, and it makes him less original (and I do hope he has his own unique model in Brawl), but Ganon/Falcon are really nothing alike. The few moves they have that look alike have completely different physics.
gannondorf will have a sword! (i think)
in melee the given excuse for clones was not enough production time and i think gannon was ment to have a sword in melee. there is of course the finishh where he has a sword but also on the a new challenger aproaches screen from melee, in shows a sillhouette of the chars sprite it showed gannon with a sword!
^^ I tend to agree with you on keeping Ganon the way he is because hes my main and i like him the way he is, but i would also like to see what he would be like with a sword too, so im on the fence on this one.
Ill rather prefer to see a combination between his mage/swordsman/hand-to-hand style, like using his hand for normal attacks, his sword for some of his smash attacks and other attacks like some air moves or tilts and maybe a B move and his magic abilities in his B moves.
As deebz said, it could go either way. But it IS Sakurai making this game, and he is, frankely, a genius. I'm sure no matter what he does with Ganon will be masterwork.
But still, I still would rather him being near the same as he was in Melee.
the thing there is that he has never shown any of his hand to hand abilities in any zelda game, also zelda have never used any of those OoT magic but that is because she never fought before ecxept for that big beam of light she shoot at the end of the game. That why I thing he would not be that much oriented in his Melee CF clone style that happened because of sakurai running out of time, but more on his mage/swordsman form, becouse unlike zelda, he has shown lots of battling abilities.
Thats my opinion, he could be exactly like melee, or totally different, this is just my guess and preference.
whoa... I missed like... three pages. D: I'm to lazy to read through them all....... I'll just start over
Ganondorf needs his Sword. it's original, and we don't have enough Sword users (thats not a joke. we seriously don't have enough...). Ganondorf being a clone in Melee was uncalled for. I admit that it did suit him suprisingly well, but it's more the principal that gets to me. he's the main villain of the Zelda franchise, and holder of the triforce of power. with that much importance, being anything less that 100% original is completely ridiculous! Ganondorf uses his sword in a unique way (mixing swordplay with hand to hand attacks), so he would be very interesting to play as. I seriously don't understand why people would even begin to think that keeping him as a clone is a good idea....
Bah, I'm still having trouble with Ganon. He can turn invisible, but that could become cheap if implemented into a moveset in a similar way to Cloaking Device... he can also make fire bats, which covers a few of the B specials, but I still really need more techniques.
I'm honestly not too fussed about sword or not. He was excellent in Melee, but I'm sure whatever they do with him will be good. That's why I decided to implement the sword draw mechanism with my Ganondorf moveset one page back. A slight shift in power, range, speed and the like, and a few different moves. Not enough to consider it a transformation, but enough to give him options.
Bah, I'm still having trouble with Ganon. He can turn invisible, but that could become cheap if implemented into a moveset in a similar way to Cloaking Device... he can also make fire bats, which covers a few of the B specials, but I still really need more techniques.
I'm honestly not too fussed about sword or not. He was excellent in Melee, but I'm sure whatever they do with him will be good. That's why I decided to implement the sword draw mechanism with my Ganondorf moveset one page back. A slight shift in power, range, speed and the like, and a few different moves. Not enough to consider it a transformation, but enough to give him options.
I don't see what there is to be "fussed" about... he was a clone in Melee, he shouldn't be in Brawl. giving him his sword and fighting style from TP would make him 100% original. having a completely hand based move-set would mean that he wouldn't be more then a luigified Captain Falcon. (at least judging by the examples people here are giving) and seeing as thats obviously a ******** idea, I don't see why theres any argument...
I don't see what there is to be "fussed" about... he was a clone in Melee, he shouldn't be in Brawl. giving him his sword and fighting style from TP would make him 100% original. having a completely hand based move-set would mean that he wouldn't be more then a luigified Captain Falcon. (at least judging by the examples people here are giving) and seeing as thats obviously a ******** idea, I don't see why theres any argument...
most of the characters in brawl are hand fighters ¬¬
what those who want him to be similar in brawl mean that ganondorf should be a powerful character with devasting attacks, still slow and fast faller, they dont want him to be to change so is not that hard for them that mastered him in melee to master him in brawl too. I support their idea of being a heavy, powerful, yet slow character, but disagree in the "he should be hand to hand, no sword" couse I support him having his sword, but not all the time, I prefer him using his hand fighting, with his sword in some of his moves, his hand fighting makes him special , but not having his sword is taking his TP form out.
Warning!: To all those who don’t feel like reading a book... I wrote a book for this post
After a couple of weeks, it seems that Ganondorf's support for Brawl has died, which I was shocked at. Come on people! Support Ganondorf! Since I did not expect nor want a rift to come between Ganondorf supporters, I personally requested Admin Mic_128 to merge my thread INTO the original Ganondorf thread. Hooray for ONE Ganondorf Thread!
Prologue
First post: 08/23/07 --When I started the thread (the bulk of what's here) EDIT!: First update: 08/25/07 (All updated text is colored Yellow) --Added Vagrant Lustoid's proposed moveset for Ganondorf, check it out below!
--Added a few more arguments for the arguments section
--Added a "QuickList" of my moveset, to provide a less detailed, quick overview of my proposed moveset
--Added a general PROS/CONS list to Ganondorf with my proposed moveset
--Added a "Combos/Finishers" list detailing what possible combos/finishers Ganondorf can pull off with my proposed moveset
--Corrected spelling errors, typos, and other minor mistakes Whew, my first update. Expect plenty more to come. Please, respond with any suggestions/criticisms/thoughts. EDIT!: Second update: 09/06/07 (All updated text is colored Magenta)
The only Ganondorf-related thread I found was for both Ganondorf and his pig form, Ganon, and it wasn’t linked in the Index Sticky, so I made this OFFICIAL Ganondorf thread. For me personally, I want the current bad@$$ Ganondorf for Brawl, NOT Ganon (potential Bowser clone) NOR a sword-based Ganondorf (potential Ike clone), although I encourage those of you who support such ideas to become true Ganondorf supporters!
As of now, it seems most people on these forums want Ganondorf to have a sword for Brawl. Most likely, Sakurai will go with what he thinks the majority would want, but I believe there's still hope for those of us who want Ganondorf to remain melee-based.
In line with other character-dedicated threads, I created a completely detailed introduction/background to Ganondorf, listed arguments for/against changes to Ganondorf, and created a very, very detailed moveset. The thread I mention above included no such features. I look at xianfeng’s OFFICIAL Diddy Kong thread as an ideal character thread, one to be looked up to and mirrored. He showed not only unwavering dedication to Diddy Kong, but put the time and effort to make a detailed and thorough-minded thread worthy of him. In addition, it brought together every Diddy lover/enthusiast in SmashBoards. That’s everything what I want this thread to be and more.
I especially dedicated a large amount of time in creating an improved moveset for Ganondorf. Unlike most of the proposed movesets I’ve seen for Ganondorf or for any other characters for that matter, I specifically designed every move of this moveset to work in tandem with each other. What I mean is, rather than creating moves that “sound” cool but could never actually do well in a match or don’t work together, I created a completely effective combo-manic moveset.
The reasons why I created this thread and the reason for my proposed moveset for Ganondorf (found below) are the following:
(1) Ganondorf is fine without a sword (albeit in need of a little improvement).
(2) Ganondorf’s moveset should not use a sword except as a final smash.
(3) Ganondorf’s aggressive martial arts/street fighting style suits him perfectly.
(4) Ganon should not replace Ganondorf as a character.
I am dead set against Ganon or Sword Ganondorf being present in Brawl if it means no Melee Ganondorf. IF, however, ALL of them could receive slots in Brawl, then YES, I'm all for them being added. I just don't want MeLee Ganondorf to dissapear. For the purposes of this thread, the argument I am making for Melee Ganondorf ASSUMES that only one version of Ganon(dorf) can be in Brawl. liek I said above, and I repeat, IF, however, ALL of them could receive slots in Brawl, then YES, I'm all for them being added. I just don't want MeLee Ganondorf to dissapear.
Introduction
Bowser already fills the role of a slow, large, powerful, monster thing (can’t think of a better word). All of those who like the idea of Ganon should play as Bowser All a sword would do is change his moveset so drastically that he basically wouldn’t be the same character. He would just become a Marth (or worst-case scenario a Roy). All you people who want Ganondorf to have a sword don’t appreciate Ganondorf’s moveset for what it is now and are most likely Marth users who like the idea of Ganondorf in Smash but hate his moveset compared to Marth’s. In addition, with Ike confirmed for Brawl, the “heavy swordsman with large sword” slot is taken. Quite frankly, I’m glad about that, as all those who don’t appreciate Ganondorf’s current moveset can now play as Ike. Also, for God’s sake there are enough swordsman.
Some people have also suggested that half his moves be melee-based while the other half be sword-based. This idea would take away too many of Ganondorf’s already great moves. In addition, the added necessity to take out his sword whenever a sword move calls for it would not only add further lag to the move due to the need for a “sword unsheathe” animation, but I think it would look too messy.
Another suggestion I’ve seen is that Ganondorf be able to transform into either a sword-wielding Ganondorf or Ganon. I hated the whole Zelda/Shiek transformation idea and I hate this one. Every worthy character should have his/her own slot.
Background
When (NOT if, you all know he’s going to be in Brawl) Ganondorf is confirmed on Smash Bros. DOJO, I will EDIT this first post and update the thread.
Ganondorf’s appearance in OoT__Ganondorf's appearance in WW________Ganondorf’s appearance in TP
I know Ganondorf will be in Brawl and anyone who doesn’t think so is wrong. In fact, Sakurai’s DOJO update on August 13th of newcomer “Pokemon Trainer” gives hope to many more NFW and WTF characters. Link and Zelda are already in and so it’s just a matter of time until Ganondorf is confirmed.
Now everyone knows Ganondorf is the coolest character in Melee, in fact, probably the coolest Nintendo character. Let’s analyze a few reasons why he’s so cool:
(1) His (last) name, Ganondorf, as well as his physical appearance, reveal that he’s 1/4th German, 1/4th Irish, 1/4th Persian, and 1/4th Indian. Why is this cool you may ask? I don’t know, I just think it is
Ganon is an Irish surname (a less common, alternative spelling of Gannon):
Reduced Anglicized form of Gaelic Mag Fhionnáin, a patronymic from the personal name Fionnán. This name, from a diminutive of fionn, “fair”, was borne by several early Irish saints.
Dorf is a German surname:
German and Jewish (Ashkenazic): nickname or topographic name for someone who lived in a village, German Dorf.
So that’s where his blazing red/orange hair and impressive build come from!
Also, Link’s name has German origin as well:
German, Dutch, and Jewish (Ashkenazic): nickname for a left-handed person, from Middle High German linc, Dutch linker, links, Yiddish link “left (side)”. In Europe left-handed people were long regarded with suspicion as clumsy, awkward, deviant, and even untrustworthy.
Obviously this name was chosen because Link is left-handed (except in the Wii TP, for gameplay reasons, because most people are right-handed).
Ganondorf’s tan/brown (OoT) to darker tan/brown (TP, although it’s also greenish) skin means he must also be part Persian and Indian.
Those other two names that appear in earlier Zelda games, Ganondorf Dragmire and Mandrag Ganon, were only included in the American releases. More specifically, they were in the instruction booklets, due to poor translation protocols at the time. Also, Miyamoto stated that OoT is first chronologically in the Zelda storyline and so Ganondorf is his true name.
Also, in WW and Four Swords Adventures, the names Ganon and Ganondorf are used interchangeably. This proves my belief that Ganon has become just a nickname for Ganondorf, which I am glad of.
(2) Did you even see the full body armor and cape he sports in OoT, WW, and TP?
(3) He plays a mean f@&#in’ organ.
(4) He’s one of Nintendo’s only true villain’s. Bowser has recently become comic relief (especially in the Mario Party series) and his role in Sunshine just proves that he’s more of a pimp than a villain. Wario has become his own character and moved past his previous anti-Mario/Mario’s antagonist role. Ridley is another great Nintendo villain, who I want to appear in Brawl. I don’t care if this analysis is not “official” or “cannon”, but this is what I what I propose and what I think is cool. Also, due to the lack of an accepted, unified, coherent storyline in the Zelda series, we’re sort of left up to our imaginations on this.
Arguments for/against Changing Ganondorf
Now I know a lot of you want Ganondorf to have a sword in Brawl, but I don’t think he should. Ganondorf is fine in Melee without a sword (albeit in need of a little improvement). His aggressive martial arts/street fighting style suits him perfectly. I feel the only reason why many people want him to have a sword is because of how great the final sword fight with him in TP is.
In OoT, only his pig form uses a sword (duel swords actually). In Wind Waker, Ganondorf once again wields duel swords. In TP Ganondorf uses one sword.
Duel swords: I feel that duel swords would not work well for Ganondorf in Brawl. The only way I could think of duel swords being used would be like DK’s moveset in Melee, like his smashes.
Single sword: Moving on to the final sword fight in TP, true, Ganondorf does look cool fighting with such a sword... in Twilight Princess! Brawl is not Twilight Princess and I feel his TP sword transition into Brawl would NOT go well. Besides, Ike has taken Brawl’s place of “heavy swordsman”, maybe Link too.
I've seen some people argue that Ganondorf used a sword in most of his games, so that's why he should have a sword. The same argument is used for supporting Ganon or a "magic-based" Ganondorf for Brawl. This argument holds no water. Taking all of the Zelda games where Ganon/Ganondorf appears into account, you'll find that he did NOT use any weapon exclusively.
In the early games where only Ganon appeared, he used a combination of a trident, melee attacks, and magic. In the games where Ganondorf appears, he uses a combination of a sword(s), melee attacks, and magic. So as you can see, there is no exclusive weapon Ganondorf uses. Therefore, that argument cannot be used for/against any type of weapon you think he should'shouldn't use.
Another reson I just thought of for keeping Ganondorf melee-based is that the only other two Zelda characters in Brawl (Link and Zelda) are not melee-based. Link is a swordsman and Zelda uses magical attacks. That way, with a melee-based Ganondorf, the three Zelda characters would balance each other out. In addition, Link's Triforce is courage (Master Sword), Zelda's is wisdom (magic), and Ganondorf's is Power (brute strength).
However, thanks to Sakurai’s creation of Final Smashes in Brawl, Ganondorf can now wield a sword in Brawl without ruining his moveset. Some people suggested that Ganondorf’s pig form be his Final Smash, but that’s not likely. Bowser already has such a Final Smash in the form of Giga Bowser, and Giga Bowser had a special place in Melee’s single player.
One frequent argument used to give Ganondorf a sword in Brawl is “Well, in Melee he’s Falcon’s clone, so he needs a new, unique moveset, which can only be achieved by utilizing his sword.” WRONG
Even though he is Falcon’s clone in Melee, their fighting styles are completely different! Just because two moves look the same or have similar animations doesn’t mean they have the same effects.
Examples with Ganondorf and Falcon:
Falcon’s Uair: Hitbox ends 3 frames before Ganondorf’s does (roughly when his leg is 45 degrees to the horizontal), which is why he cannot do Reverse Uair.
Falcon’s Dair: 6 less damage than Ganondorf’s, much smaller hitbox, much smaller knockback, and the same exact hitbox frames as Ganondorf’s.
Other Examples:
Fox and Falco, Marth and Roy: Identical frame times for most attacks, identical animations for most attacks, but completely different effects by the attacks, thus, completely different fighting styles.
In conclusion, I want Ganondorf to retain his Melee moveset, but with a few changes and improvements. Below is my proposed moveset for Ganondorf. Now without further ado, I bring you my proposed moveset for Ganondorf!
QuickList of MeLeo's proposed moveset for Ganondorf
--Walking/running/fox trot/dash dance: same walking/running speed as Mario, same fox trot as Fox, better dashdance as a result
--First jump: same height as now, same start lag, same animation
--Short hop: same height as now
--Midair jump: much higher (high enough to let all of his aerials and specials come out in a ledgehop)
--Wall jump: now he can wall jump, which I want all characters to be able to do
--Falling speed: same as now
--Fast fall: same as now
--Weight: same as now
--Horizontal air speed: much faster (as high as CF, which will enable him to cover more horizontal distance in a jump and with aerials)
--Horizontal fall speed: much higher (he has a cape), which would enable him to cover more distance when falling
--Tumble animation: same as now
--Dodge rolls: same as now but, if possible, just a little longer
--Spot dodge: much faster, same as Mario's
--Crouch: same as now (i.e., a high crouch)
--Crouch cancel game: much better (on par with Samus')
--Traction: a little higher than it is now
--Shield: powershield covers his lower calves and feet now; lightshield larger as well
--Ledgeroll: same as now except less endlag
--Wavedash: same as now
--Ledge attacks: both of them the same as his current <100% ledge attack (although >100% one is slower)
--Rising attacks: both of them the same as his current leg-spin rising attack
--Grab: much larger grab range now (on par with Shiek's grab range, who is 8th in terms of reach)
--Throws: besides animation changes I made for some, all of them have the same effects as now, except for the slightly longer stun time the DownThrow gives to an opponent
--Grab attack: same as now (or, an alternative I came up with where he Jabs an opponent's face)
--Dash attack: same as now except the hitbox doesn't become smaller for the last half of the attack
--Neutral A: same jab as now, except it is ~1.5 times faster
--DownTilt: same as now except it comes out twice as fast and the hitbox lasts twice as long
--UpTilt: similar in animation to Zelda's UpTilt, but faster and with no magic
--Other tilts: I left Ganondorf's other tilt animations the same, but I doubled all of their hitbox lengths, and made the foot hitbox to the Down-Angled tilt larger (to stop sweetspotters).
--UpB: same animation and attack (it's a grab), but the grab hitbox is bigger, it can now sweetspot, it comes out ~1.6 times faster, and it's height is the same
--Ground DownB: now there's a Windup DownB (hit B once) and a Fast DownB (hit B twice quickly)
--Aerial DownB: same as now except it's a very-hard-to-cancel meteor (there should no spikes in Brawl), the overall hitbox is larger, and it still gives him back his midair jump
--Ground SideB: now there's a Windup SideB (hit B once) and a Fast SideB (hit B twice quickly)
--Aerial SideB: same distance as CF's Aerial SideB, goes through opponents, it's a hard-to-cancel meteor, and it can grabthe ledge
--Neutral B: Ganondorf pulls his cape in front of him, OoT style, reflecting all projectiles (NOT attacks), and it's pretty fast too, although it has to be timed properly
--UpSmash: same as now except the crotch hitbox is much larger (same reach as 1/2 of his ForwardTilt), it comes out much faster, and it can't double hit opponents
--DownSmash: same as now except when he kicks forwards, he punches backwards with his right arm and when he kicks backwards, he punches forwards with his right arm. The first punch/kick has the same effect and the second punch/kick has the same effect. Also, it comes out quicker, and the first punch/kick ALWAYS brings and opponent into the second punch/kick.
--SideSmash: same as now except he pivots farther back, comes out faster, and has the same reach as Samus' SideSmash
--Nair: same as CF's current Nair
--Dair: same as now except it comes out quicker, has bigger horizontal reach (in front of him), it's harder to meteor cancel, and it can hit sweetspotters more easily
--Fair: same as now except it comes out quicker and there is a hitbox in his waist now
--Bair: same as now except it comes out quicker, lasts ~1.3 times as long, and can hit sweetspotters more easily
--Uair: same as now except the hitbox starts lower (45 degrees below the horizontal)
--TauntUp: Current taunt. Ganondorf spins, floating in the air, and makes the most insulting laugh and face ever.
--TauntDown: Ganondorf just shouts a loud “Ha” laugh.
--TauntLeft: Ganondorf folds his arms and turns his head to the side as he grunts “Hmmph” (this is Fox’s taunt from SSB64).
--TauntRight: Ganondorf grunts a “Hmmph” as he gives a Roman military salute and then shouts a loud “Ha” as he displays the Triforce of Power on the back of his hand.
MeLeo’s proposed moveset for Ganondorf Legend (terms used for attacks)
Note!: For trajectory, I used compass directions instead of descriptions like Up, Down, Horizontal because to me they are more clear and give me a better way to describe the trajectories. See the compass below if you don't know for some reason.
General info: General information Animation description: Description of the animation of the attack Range: The range of the attack Damage: How much damage the attack deals to the opponent Knockback: How far the opponent is knocked back by the attack Stun time: How much stun the opponent receives from the attack Trajectory: What direction the opponent is sent by the attack. I will use North, South, East, and West and all angles in between to describe this (you know, a map compass). Powershield eat: How much of an opponent’s powershield the attack eats Powershield knockback: How far back the attack knocks a powershielding opponent Note!: For lightshields, just assume that the above powershield stats are increased by a lot. Total frames: How long the attack animation lasts (until the character stands up on his own) Hitboxes: Where the hitboxes are located Hitbox frames: Which frames the hitboxes are out Type: The type of move it is, i.e, combo starter, finisher, et cetera Recovery speed: How soon you can react after an aerial move lands on the ground (both normal reaction time and lag-cancelled, in frames) IASA: The soonest time you can perform another move before the attack animation ends (Interruptible As Soon As) Extra information: Any extra information
Walking/running/fox trot/dash dance
Ganondorf has the longest legs of any character by far and yet his stride is one of the shortest. He should have the longest stride in the game, resulting in:
(1) a much faster walking speed (on par with Mario’s walking speed),
(2) a much faster running speed (on par with Mario’s running speed),
(3) a longer fox trot (on par with Fox’s fox trot), and
(4) a much better dashdance resulting from an improved fox trot.
The above improvements would expand his mindgames and techchasing abilities greatly.
First jump
I think Ganondorf’s current first jump has a good height. It is just high enough to allow him to perfectly waveland on the bottom platforms of a few stages like DL64, BF, and YS. However, the animation of his first jump (the same exact posture as Mario’s first jump) can cause some wavelanding problems (mostly wavelanding on the stage).
In his first jump, his back leg hangs like 1 foot lower then his front leg. Because his midair dodge causes him to contract his arms and legs (namely, pull his back leg together with his front leg), his overall length becomes shorter than during his first jump. This is just a slight annoyance to me and I don’t think anything really has to be done about this.
Short hop
His current short hop is fine.
Midair jump
I like both the forwards and backwards midair jump animations, but aside from that, it’s just plain too short in Melee. Because it’s so short, the only real ledgehop Ganondorf can do is with his Uair, and that’s only because the Uair animation brings his legs above him. Yea, the first Nair kick can come out too, but that’s just too hard and risky to do for such a crappy payoff.
His midair jump should be just high enough to let all his aerial hitboxes come out in a Ledgehop (including all special moves). I know a lengthened midair jump would cause his ledge stall to lose its full invincibility and end his double platform wavelands, but I think the benefits outway the deficits here.
Wall jump
I think every character in Brawl, Ganondorf included, should have a wall jump. If every character can wall tech jump, then every character should be able to wall jump.
Falling speed
I don’t know if weight will affect vertical KOS in Brawl instead of the way falling speed does now in Melee. I wouldn’t really have a problem with the physics remaining that way. I think his falling speed is fine since it allows him to stall his jumps long enough to give him extra mindgames with aerials. In addition, it’s high enough that he’s not too easily KO’d vertically compared to other characters.
Fast fall
Tied in with falling speed. I think it’s fine as it is.
Weight
I think his weight is fine as it is. His weight is high enough that he’s not too easily KO’d out horizontally. In addition, in Sakurai’s description for Ike’s UpB, which mirrors Kirby’s UpB, he states that he will not flinch at the beginning of the attack. He goes on to say that you should expect this from most heavy characters’ special moves, which is good news for Ganondorf. I will include this “no flinching” ability in Ganondorf’s special moves.
Horizontal air speed
It needs to be a faster than it currently is. Ganon has one of the slowest horizontal air speeds and that affects his punishing ability and aerial attack reach. In addition, a faster air speed would cause Ganon’s UpB to cover much more horizontal distance, which he needs. This is why Falcon’s UpB covers so much more horizontal distance than Ganondorf’s, because he has one of the fastest horizontal air speeds. This is also why Falcon can practically jump across half of FD with aerials.
Horizontal fall speed
Not to be confused with horizontal air speed, horizontal fall speed is how far a character can move horizontally while falling. Ganondorf has one of the slowest horizontal fall speeds. I think it should be increased because it effects how much distance his UpB can cover after it enters the fall animation. In addition, a faster horizontal fall speed means that faking out opponents to dodge edgeguarding moves with Ganondorf’s UpB would be more effective. Also, he has a freakin’ cape, so he should have a very high horizontal fall speed anyway.
Tumble animation
It’s fine as it is.
Dodge rolls
Both of Ganondorf’s dodge roll’s are great. They both cover the same (fairly large) distance, are pretty fast, and give him good invincibility time. In fact, he is one of the only characters who has extremely useful and necessary dodge rolls. Maybe just a slight length increase would make me happy.
If his dodge roll ends inside another character, because of his big body, instead of rolling behind the person he gets pushed in front of them. I know you shouldn’t really dodge roll into such a vulnerable position, but if it was slightly longer it would just be better for Ganondorf.
Spot dodge
Worst, spot dodge, ever (tied with Falcon’s). Not only is it the second longest in duration (37 frames instead of most characters’ 22 frames), but the few extra frames of invincibility it gives (19 frames instead of most characters’ 14 frames) is not worth it. Every character can dashdance twice around Ganondorf before his spot dodge ends. Give him (along with Falcon) a real spot dodge (on par with Mario’s spot dodge).
Crouch
He’s a big guy, so he should have one of the least effective (i.e., tallest) crouches. I say his current crouch is fine.
Crouch cancel game
I feel that Ganondorf’s crouch cancel game is bad. In line with his heavy, big-bodied nature, he should have one of the most effective crouch cancels, but he doesn’t. In addition, even when you do crouch cancel an attack, he slides like 1 foot back to even a semi-powerful attack at low percentages, thereby eliminating any chance of counter attacking after a crouch cancel. Furthermore, his DownTilt (normally the quickest and most common crouch cancel counter) is not an effective crouch cancelled counter:
It takes fairly long to come out, the hitbox only last for 3 frames (half of Falcon’s even though they are exactly the same in every other way), and only reaches any significant distance on that last hitbox frame. And so, in addition to a much improved crouch cancel (on par with Samus’ crouch cancel), I propose a better DownTilt as well, which you will see below.
Traction
Ties in with his crouch cancel game. Being a heavy, big-bodied character with heavy combat boots, Ganondorf should have one of the best tractions in the game.
Shield
There really isn’t a big difference between characters’ shields except for size. The thing I don’t like about Ganondorf’s powershield is that it doesn’t protect his calves and feet. This makes him more vulnerable than most other characters to low hitting attacks or attacks from under him while he’s on a platform. His powershield should protect his calves and feet.
In addition, in accordance with a larger power shield, his light shield should also be made larger, which would improve his light shield tilting ability.
Ledge roll
His ledge roll is good. It’s fast and covers the second largest distance in the game. However, the end lag is too long. The endlag should be reduced (on par with Shiek’s ledge roll endlag) so he could follow up his ledge roll with an attack before an opponent could react.
Wavedash
Hopefully wavedashing will remain in Brawl. I think his wavedash is fine as it is. With a fairly high startup lag jump, his wavedash comes out slower than most characters, but I’m fine with this. It covers a good distance as well. Besides, I think first jump, falling speed, and traction all affect a character’s wavedash, and I don’t want to really change any of those stats for Ganondorf just for his wavedash.
Ledge attack(s)
General info: His current ledge attacks are okay. The <100% and >100% ledge attacks both cover the 5th and 4th longest distances respectively, which is good. I say his >100% ledge attack could be changed to be the same as his <100% ledge attack, albeit slower of course. Animation description: He swings his body over the ledge, bringing his right leg down on the ground in an arc. Range: The attack is the length of his leg from his waist to his foot. Damage: 10% for both (same % now for <100% ledge attack, 2% higher than >100%) Knockback: low Stun time: low Trajectory: If hit by his leg: East/West
__________If hit inside his waist: SouthEast/SouthWest Powershield eat: very low Powershield knockback: very low Total frames: 24 Hitboxes: foot, leg, waist Hitbox frames: 7-12 Type: quick recovery Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 25 Extra information: Invincible on frames 3-6
Rising attack(s)
General info: I think his leg spin rising attack (two leg spins) is great and should remain the same. I hate his other rising attack though, where he kicks both feet into the ground to stand up, and it should be replaced with his leg spin rising attack. Animation description: He lifts his body up with his hand, stands on his head, and spin-kicks twice with his legs which are at 180°. Range: The attack is the length of both his outstretched legs and is close to the ground. Damage: 12% (6% per leg spin) Knockback: low Stun time: low Trajectory: East/West Powershield eat: very low (per kick), total (both kicks) = low Powershield knockback: very low (per kick), total (both kicks) = low Total frames: 30 Hitboxes: both feet, both legs, waist, head; basically, his whole spinning body Hitbox frames: 7-10, 13-16 Type: quick recovery Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 31 Extra information: Invincible on frames 3-6
Grab(s)
Long arms = long grab range. In Melee, his grab range is pathetic; he just grasps his hand closed like 6 inches from his chest. Come to think of it, DK has arms twice as long as the character with the second longest arms (Ganondorf) and his grab is almost as bad. Ganondorf should reach out with his full arm length to grab (grab range on par with his Jab range). CF, who has the same grab range as Ganondorf albeit slightly smaller, at least has a Dash and JC Grab that make him slide like a full stride forward, but Ganondorf doesn’t even have that. Come on, I mean Ganondorf and Falcon are full grown, buff, tall men and yet they have a smaller grab range than a 3 foot fox.
For the grab stats, I think everyone has pretty much the same frame times for standing and dashing grabs except for like Bowser, so all those stats should stay the same.
Grab attack
Meh, it’s okay as it is, kneeing opponents in the face. This can be kept or another one I though of is where he jabs a grabbed opponent in the face, either one is fine with me.
UpThrow
Ganondorf quickly swings the opponent up in the air making his classic “teuh” sound as he does so. In addition, with a higher midair jump, opponents won’t be able to escape a follow up attack from his UpThrow as easily as they can now (especially Samus). Damage: 7% Knockback: very low Trajectory: North, NorthEast/NorthWest Stun time: low/med Type: combo starter, CG, techpunish setup
DownThrow
His current DownThrow is great and allows for a pretty good CG and combo game, but most especially a great tech punishing game. His DownThrow animation should remain the same, including his grunts/shouts. In addition, with an improved stride, fox trot, and grab range, his tech chase and punishing game after a DownThrow will be improved dramatically. Damage: 9% Knockback: very low Trajectory: North, NorthEast, NorthWest Knockback: very low Stun time: med Type: combo starter, CG, techpunish setup
ForwardThrow
Ganondorf quickly throws the opponent in front of him using both arms (like the animation of Luigi’s ForwardThrow). Damage: 7% Knockback: low Trajectory: East, West Stun time: low/med Type: edgeguard setup
BackThrow
He spins his body once and quickly swings the opponent behind him (like the animation of Luigi’s BackThrow, but he only spins once). Damage: 9% Knockback: low Trajectory: East, West Stun time: med Type: edgeguard setup
DashAttack
General info: His dash attack is actually pretty good. The only stupid this is how he falls of the stage if the animation ends near it. Animation description: He thrusts his body forward, shoulder out in front. Range: The attack length is from his chest to his shoulder (the hitbox on the shoulder itself is huge). Damage: 12% Knockback: med Stun time: low/med Trajectory: If hit by the first half of the attack: NorthEast/NorthWest (behind Ganondorf)
__________If hit by the last half of the attack: NorthEast/NorthWest (in front of Ganondorf) Powershield eat: low Powershield knockback: low/med Total frames: 26 Hitboxes: shoulder (very large hitbox), chest Hitbox frames: First half: 7-10
_____________Second half: 11-14 Type: quick attack Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 27 Extra information: none
Neutral A
General info: Ganondorf’s current Jab is infinitely needed and useful to him. Without it, all of Ganondorf’s aerials would be abused 3x as much and he would have no quick attack whatsoever. Animation description: He quickly jabs with his fisted right hand Range: The attack is the length from his back to his fully extended, fisted right arm. Damage: 8% Knockback: low/med Stun time: low/med Trajectory: If hit by his fist/arm: East, West
__________If hit inside his chest/back: SouthEast/SouthWest (away from his back) Powershield eat: low Powershield knockback: none Total frames: 18 Hitboxes: fist, arm, chest, back Hitbox frames: 3-6 Type: quick attack Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 13 Extra information: In 2v2, Ganondorf’s Jab is fast enough to never allow an opponent to escape the grab of his partner.
DownTilt
General info: As it is now, it takes fairly long to come out, the hitbox only last for 3 frames (half of Falcon’s even though they are exactly the same in every other way), and only reaches any significant distance on that last hitbox frame. I improved it greatly. Animation description: He quickly sweeps his right leg on the floor, from left to right (left to right in terms of stage depth). Range: The attack is the length from behind/under his butt to his extended leg/foot. Damage: 12% Knockback: low Stun time: med Trajectory: If hit by his leg/foot: North, NorthEast/NorthWest (away from his face)
__________If by his butt: NorthEast/NorthWest (away from his face) Powershield eat: low Powershield knockback: low Total frames: 30 Hitboxes: butt (extends behind and below it), leg, foot Hitbox frames: 5-10 Type: combo starter, finisher setup Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 26 Extra information: none
UpTilt
General info: It is the most useless move in the game, but if you ever do manage to pull it off (as rare as winning lotto), it is the biggest b!&#% slap. However, I gave him a useful UpTilt now (similar to Zelda’s UpTilt, but without the magic). Animation description: He arcs a fist with his right hand above his head, from behind his back to in front of his face. Range: The length of the attack is his fully extended, fisted right arm. Damage: 12% Knockback: very low/low Stun time: low/med Trajectory: North Powershield eat: very low Powershield knockback: none Total frames: 30 Hitboxes: fist, arm, shoulder Hitbox frames: 5-10 Type: at low%: juggler; at med-high%: combo starter, finisher setup Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 26 Extra information: none
Up-Angled ForwardTilt
General info: All of his tilts are rather good and used fairly often. I made minor improvements. This tilt is the least used one, but it still has its uses. Animation description: He swings his straight right leg 45° into the air. Range: The length of the attack is from his waist to the foot of his extended right leg. Damage: 13% Knockback: med Stun time: low/med Trajectory: East/West Powershield eat: very low Powershield knockback: none Total frames: 36 Hitboxes: waist, leg, foot Hitbox frames: 9-14 Type: spacer Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 32 Extra information: none
ForwardTilt
General info: All of his tilts are rather good and used fairly often. I made minor improvements. This tilt is the most often used and has good length. Animation description: He swings his curved right leg (bends his knee) a foot or so above the ground. Range: The length of the attack is from his waist to the foot of his extended right leg. Damage: 12% Knockback: med Stun time: low/med Trajectory: East/West Powershield eat: very low Powershield knockback: low Total frames: 36 Hitboxes: waist, leg, foot Hitbox frames: 9-14 Type: spacer, (tech)punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 32 Extra information: none
Down-Angled ForwardTilt
General info: All of his tilts are rather good and used fairly often. I made minor improvements. This tilt is useful for edgeguarding. Animation description: He swings his right leg close to the ground. Range: The length of the attack is from his waist to the foot of his extended leg (the hitbox extends below his foot enough to stop sweetspotting if timed correctly). Damage: 11% Knockback: med Stun time: med Trajectory: SouthEast/SouthWest Powershield eat: very low Powershield knockback: none Total frames: 36 Hitboxes: waist, leg, foot (hitbox slightly extends below foot) Hitbox frames: 9-14 Type: edgeguarder, spacer Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 32 Extra information: none
UpB
General info: Despite the vulnerability of it, I like the fact that it grabs. With a little improvement, I made this recovery move much better. Animation description: He crouches for a brief moment and after the first 2 (large) grab frames end, he jumps in the air, his right arm’s fist extended upwards (same animation as his first jump). After the attack ends, he doesn’t spin the fall like now, instead, he just falls. Range: First 2 frames: same range as ForwardTilt
______Other frames: from his waist to the elbow of his extended right arm Damage: 17% (7% if interrupted) Knockback: med/high Stun time: med Trajectory: East/West Powershield eat: none, N/A (grab) Powershield knockback: none, N/A (grab) Total frames: 29 (enters fall animation starting on 30) Hitboxes: waist, chest, shoulder, upper arm, elbow Hitbox frames: 9-29 Type: recovery; can be used as a finisher at med-high% Recovery speed: 20 frames, 10 if LC IASA: 49 (39 LC) Extra information: This is still a grab. Can sweetspot the ledge now. Doesn’t give an opponent his midair jump back anymore. Choose direction by frame 8. If Ganondorf is hit during the first 7 frames, he will not flinch.
DownB
General info: Same basic animation as his current DownB, but I added two different variants depending on whether or not you press B once or twice quickly (i.e., like Fox and Falco’s SideB).
Windup DownB
(Ground, Press B once) Animation description: He pivots on his left leg, pulling his whole body behind his standing position (even father than CF’s SideB), then he lunges forward with his right leg extended. Range: Covers a little more than half of YS in 12 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox). Damage: 17% Knockback: high Stun time: med/high Trajectory: East/West Powershield eat: med Powershield knockback: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers) Total frames: 47 Hitboxes: butt (extends pretty far behind it), leg, foot (extends pretty far beyond it) Hitbox frames: 14-37 Type: finisher, fake-out punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 48 Extra information: If Ganondorf gets hit during the first 7 frames, he will not flinch.
Fast DownB
(Ground, Press B twice quickly) Animation description: He immediately lunges forward with his right leg extended.
Range: Covers a little less than half of YS in 10 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox). Damage: 13% Knockback: high Stun time: med Trajectory: East/West Powershield eat: low/med Powershield knockback: low/med Total frames: 37 Hitboxes: butt (extends pretty far behind it), leg, foot (extends pretty far beyond it) Hitbox frames: 8-27 Type: finisher, tech punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 38 Extra information: To perform the fast DownB, you must hit B a second time by frame 7).
Aerial DownB
(Air, Only 1 version of the attack in the air) Animation description: he immediately lunges SouthEast/SouthWest (45° below the horizontal). Range: Goes same distance as it does now in the air. Damage: 15% Knockback: In air: very high
__________Into ground: med/high Stun time: very high Trajectory: If hit in air: same direction Ganondorf goes with his Aerial DownB goes, SouthEast/SouthWest, (45° below the horizontal).
__________If hit while on the ground: Up Powershield eat: low/med Powershield knockback: med Total frames: 37 Hitboxes: butt (extends fairly long behind and below it), waist, legs, foot (extends fairly long beyond foot) Hitbox frames: 11-37 Type: meteor, recovery, combo starter, finisher setup Recovery speed: 20 frames (10 frames LC) IASA: 58 (48 LC) Extra information: It is a meteor. I feel there should be no spikes in the game, just a few “almost impossible to cancel” meteors, like this one. It gives Ganondorf his midair jump back. The Aerial DownB can be used on grounded opponents much like his Dair, although the vertical knockback is much, much less than the Dair’s on grounded opponents, has a little more lag, and is harder to pull off. If Ganondorf is hit during the first 4 frames, he will not flinch.
SideB
General info: Same basic animation as his current SideB, but I added two different variants depending on whether or not you press B once or twice quickly (i.e., like Fox and Falco’s SideB).
Windup SideB
(Ground, Press B once) Animation description: He pivots on his left leg, pulling his whole body behind his standing position (even father than CF’s SideB), then he lunges forward with a fist in his right hand, his right arm fully extended forward. Range: Covers a little more than half of YS in 12 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox). Damage: 17% Knockback: low/med Stun time: high Trajectory: North, NorthEast/NorthWest Powershield eat: med Powershield knockback: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers) Total frames: 47 Hitboxes: head, fist, arm, upper body (when viewed sideways). When an opponent is above him, he thrusts his first high up to try and get them. Hitbox frames: 14-37 Type: combo starter, finisher setup, fake-out punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 48 Extra information: If Ganondorf gets hit during the first 7 frames, he will not flinch.
Fast SideB
(Ground, Press B twice quickly) Animation description: he immediately lunges forward with a fist in his right hand, his right arm fully extended forward. (Same animation as now except no windup). Range: Covers a little less than half of YS in 10 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox). Damage: 13% Knockback: low/med Stun time: med/high Trajectory: North, NorthEast/West Powershield eat: low Powershield knockback: med (can be shield grabbed by most, but not all, characters) Total frames: 37 Hitboxes: head, fist, arm, upper body. When an opponent is above him, he thrusts his first high up to try and get them. Hitbox frames: 8-27 Type: combo starter, finisher set up, tech punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 38 Extra information: To perform the fast SideB, you must hit B a second time by frame 7).
Aerial SideB
(Air, Only 1 version of the attack in the air) Animation description: he immediately lunges horizontally with his first out in front (same animation as Aerial SideB now). If he comes into contact with an opponent, he punches down in the air but keeps going forward (like Falco’s SideB). Range: Covers the same distance as CF’s Aerial SideB. Hitbox goes from his fist to his waist. Damage: 15% Knockback: If hit in the air: high
__________If hit while on ground: med Stun time: med/high Trajectory: If in air: South (like Falco’s SideB)
__________If on ground: North Powershield eat: low/med Powershield knockback: low/med Total frames: 37 Hitboxes: head, extended right arm, fist, waist, chest Hitbox frames: 11-37 Type: meteor, recovery, combo starter, finisher setup Recovery speed: 20 frames (10 frames LC) IASA: 58 (48 LC) Extra information: It is a meteor, but hard to cancel. The Aerial SideB can be used on grounded opponents much like his Dair, although the vertical knockback is much, much less that the Dair’s on grounded opponents, has a little more lag, and is harder to pull off. In addition, it can sweetspot the ledge and goes through opponents without stopping (like Falco’s SideB). If Ganondorf is hit during the first 4 frames, he will not flinch.
Neutral B
General description: OMG, a useful Neutral B! Get this... his OoT cape! This attack will have deflect all projectiles but doesn’t protect against regular attacks. Animation description: exactly in OoT fashion, Ganondorf grabs his cape and pulls it in front of him, reflecting any projectiles used on him. He will even make the same “teuh” sound that he does in OoT when he protects himself with his cape. Range: Hitbox barely extends past his cape in front of him and his back behind him, thus requiring that it’s timed properly. It extends from his head to his feet. So, while it protects his whole body, the hitboxes do not protrude too far out and it must be timed properly. Damage: depends on the projectile reflected Knockback: depends on reflected projectile Stun time: depends on reflected projectile Trajectory: see knockback Powershield eat: depends on reflected projectile Powershield knockback: depends on reflected projectile Total frames: 20 Hitboxes: Whole body Hitbox frames: 5-16 Type: defensive move Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 21 Extra information: This isn’t cheap. If it also protected against regular attacks with the same frame data and IASA, THEN it would be cheap.
UpSmash
General description: If it weren’t for the high startup lag or the low range, Ganondorf’s UpSmash would be excellent. The crotch shot is as powerful as Marth’s tipper at like med% and even more so at high%. The UpSmash is also fairly strong. As it is, it’s just too hard to land on someone, although using it as a lure does work pretty well. Animation description: same animation as now, he kicks up twice in the air, same “teuh” sound as well. Range: Crotch hitbox: Extends from his crotch to his thighs. Same reach as half of his ForwardTilt.
______UpSmash: Extends from his calves to above his feet. His feet can reach just above DL64's bottom platforms. Damage: Crotch shot: 24%
________UpSmash: 22% Knockback: Crotch shot: very high
__________UpSmash: high/veryhigh Stun time: med/high Trajectory: Crotch shot: East/West
__________UpSmash: North Powershield eat: Crotch shot: high
______________UpSmash: med/high Powershield knockback: Crotch shot: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers)
____________________UpSmash: low/med Total frames: 37 Hitboxes: calves, thighs, crotch Hitbox frames: 11-14, 19-22 Type: finisher, (tech)punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 38 Extra information: The move can no longer double hit opponents.
DownSmash
General description: If you actually manage to land his DownSmash, and your opponent gets hit by both kicks, it is a great move. Once again, the only problem with this smash like his UpSmash is that it’s very difficult to land. Animation description: He pivots on his left leg as he kicks his right foot in front of him, then behind him. In addition, when he kicks forwards, he punches backwards with his right arm; when he kicks backwards, he punches forwards with his right arm. Range: Kicks: same range as his ForwardTilt
Punches: 3/4 the range of his ForwardTilt Damage: First kick/punch: 10%
Second kick/punch: 12% Knockback: First kick/punch: none (set knockback, ALWAYS brings the opponent to the second kick/punch)
__________Second kick/punch: low/med Stun time: very high Trajectory: North, NorthEast/NorthWest (in front of Ganondorf’s face) Powershield eat: low Powershield knockback: med Total frames: 42 Hitboxes: both legs, both feet, both arms Hitbox frames: 11-14, 19-22 Type: combo starter, finisher setup, (tech)punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 43 Extra information: If the first kick/punch connects, then the second kick/punch will ALWAYS hit, regardless of the opponent’s character or percentage.
SideSmash
General description: Once again, this smash is too difficult to land. Animation description: He pivots on his left leg, bringing his whole body back (further back than CF’s SideB) then viciously thrusts his body forward with his elbow out. Range: Same as Samus’ SideSmash Damage: 22% Knockback: very high Stun time: high Trajectory: North, NorthEast/West Powershield eat: med Powershield knockback: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers) Total frames: 46 Hitboxes: waist, chest, elbow Hitbox frames: 11-16 Type: finisher, (tech)punisher Recovery speed: N/A IASA: 47 Extra information: none
Nair
General description: While Falcon’s Nair is great for combos and approaching, Ganondorf’s is not. Both of their Nairs’ animation frame times are exactly the same, so why are they so different? Because the programmers made both of his Nair kicks last ONLY 2 frames, while CF’s lasts 6 and 11 respectively. Why would they do this? I don’t know. Animation description: Same as now, he kicks first with one leg, then the other. Range: Same as now (the range is pretty good, farther than CF’s even) Damage: 6% per kick (12% total) Knockback: First kick: none (set knockback)
__________Second kick: med Stun time: med Trajectory: East/West Powershield eat: very low per kick (low if both connect) Powershield knockback: none Total frames: 30 Hitboxes: both legs, both feet, waist Hitbox frames: 5-10, 15-26 Type: comboer, approacher Recovery speed: 18 frames (9 frames LC) IASA: 48 (39 LC) Extra information: The first kick does not always lead into the second kick (although it does so a lot of the time).
Dair
General description: Ahh, the infamous stomp... Animation description: He crunches his body (like a spring) to prepare for the dreaded Dair. Then he suddenly stretches his body at a superluminal speed, destroying all those that stand in its way. Range: Entire body, from well above his head to well below his feet. Horizontally, the hitbox is two Ganondorfs put together. Damage: 22% Knockback: In air: very high
__________On grounded opponent: high/very high Stun time: very high Trajectory: If hit in air: South, SouthEast/SouthWest
__________If hit on ground: North, NorthEast/NorthWest Powershield eat: very high (can break full shields in 4 hits) Powershield knockback: med Total frames: 30 Hitboxes: Entire, freakin’, body, and then some Hitbox frames: 13-18 Type: comboer, finisher setup, meteor Recovery speed: 24 frames (12 frames LC) IASA: 54 (42 LC) Extra information: none
Fair
General description: Ahh, the infamous fist o’ death... Animation description: he pulls back his fisted right hand to prepare for a skull crushing blow, then he violently swings his first forward. The hitbox starts above his head then moves below his body (can more easily hit sweetspotters). Range: From his waist to well beyond his fist. Damage: 18% Knockback: very high Stun time: high Trajectory: If hit by his arm/fist: East/West in front of Ganondorf
__________If hit by his waist: East/West behind Ganondorf Powershield eat: med Powershield knockback: low/med Total frames: 26 Hitboxes: waist, arm, fist (very large on fist) Hitbox frames: 11-16 Type: finisher, approacher Recovery speed: 20 frames (10 frames LC) IASA: 46 (36 LC) Extra information: none
Bair
General description: Ahh, the ol’ reliable and quick Bair... Animation description: With his left arm, he turns sideways and puches backwards, angling the punch downwards as well (can hit sweetspotters). Range: From his chest to beyond his extended arm. Damage: 16% Knockback: high/very high Stun time: high Trajectory: If hit by his arm/fist: East/West behind Ganondorf
__________If hit by his chest: East/West in front of Ganondorf Powershield eat: med Powershield knockback: low/med Total frames: 20 Hitboxes: waist, arm, fist (very large on fist) Hitbox frames: 7-14 Type: finisher Recovery speed: 16 frames (8 LC) IASA: 37 frames (29 frames LC) Extra information: Just a quick, powerful move.
Uair
General description: Only rival to Fox’s shine edgeguard Animation description: he bends his upper torso under him and pulls both his legs in an arc, with his left leg doing the actual attack and his right leg following 90° behind. The attack starts and ends at 45° below the horizontal, covering a total of 270°. Range: From his waist to well beyond his fist. Damage: 14% Knockback: Reverse Uair: med/high
__________Uair: high Stun time: Reverse Uair: high/very high
_________Uair: med/high Trajectory: Reverse Uair: SouthEast/SouthWest
__________Uair: East/West Powershield eat: very low Powershield knockback: none Total frames: 20 Hitboxes: crotch, leg, foot (extends pretty far beyond foot) Hitbox frames: 5-16 Type: edgeguarder Recovery speed: 14 frames (7 LC) IASA: 34 (27 LC) Extra information: The Reverse Uair starts when his leg is upright facing North. The Uair is the only rival to the shine spike.
Final smash
Ganondorf yells at the top of his lungs, brandishes a sword that has appeared from nowhere, and goes medieval on everyone’s @$$.
Taunts
Only one taunt for most characters?... lame! Which is why I say every character should have four taunts (each direction on D-Pad). If Sakurai can come up with 4 more for each character (each direction on D-Pad and also which way the character is facing) then kudos. For Ganondorf, I could only come up with 4 good ones.
TauntUp
Current taunt. Ganondorf spins, floating in the air, and makes the most insulting laugh and face ever. Total frames: 100
TauntDown
Ganondorf puts his hands on his hips and just shouts a loud “Ha” laugh. Total frames: 60
TauntLeft
Ganondorf folds his arms and turns his head to the side as he grunts “Hmmph” (this is Fox’s taunt from SSB64). Total frames: 60
TauntRight
Ganondorf grunts a “Hmmph” as he gives a Roman military salute and then shouts a loud “Ha” as he displays the Triforce of Power on the back of his hand. Total frames: 100
PROS/CONS to Ganondorf with my proposed moveset
PROS
--Ganondorf's Up and Down Throws can lead into all of his other moves at certain% and depending on if/how an opponent DI's
--Thanks to his larger Grab, better Fox Trot, faster Running speed, and better DashDance, he can tech chase and tech punish opponents better, as well as CG more efficiently
--Ganondorf has a perfect balance between:
(1) relatively weak combo/finisher setup moves,
(2) powerful/semi-powerful finishers,
(3) fake-out/punisher moves,
(4) edgeguarders, and
(5) quick moves
Which makes him the ultimate (though precise) combo king
--Thanks to his very tall stature (long legs and arms) and buff body, his attacks generally have great reach
CONS:
--His tall stature (long legs and arms) and buff body is a double-edged sword. Though it gives him great overall reach, it also makes him a bigger target.
--His walking/running speed is still relatively small (compared to most current higher-tier characters)
--His heavy weight and relatively fast falling speed means he can still be comboed by good opponents
--His UpB is still pretty vulnerable to edgeguards and his recovery (i.e. DownB, jump, UpB) is still pretty predictable
Combos/Finishers
--At certain%, he can always KO an opponent from either his UpThrow or DownThrow (with no escape for the opponent). E.g., UpThrow/DownThrow into his Fair, Bair, DownB, et cetera
--Now that his DownTilt comes out faster, lasts twice as long, and is weaker, you can DownTilt an opponent into any one of his aerials
--Now with his improved UpTilt, he can juggle opponents at low% and he can UpTilt opponents into any of his aerials
--Dair'ing a grounded opponent gives them extreme stun time, which gives him the ability to Dair the opponent again, grab them at low%, and smash/aerial attack them at med-high%
--His DownSmash, Aerial DownB, and SideB attacks all give relatively high stun times to opponents, pretty high damage, come out pretty fast, and are weaker now than in Melee, which make them perfect moves to start a combo or lead into a finisher at med-high%
Name: Ganondorf Age: Ancient Developer: Nintendo First Appearance: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Other Notable Appearances: Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
Dash A: Gerudo Charge (Ganondorf extends his arm forwards, runs into a character, clamps the hand around the person’s face and shoves them to the ground as he jumps off them horizontally, skidding forward. 15%)
F Tilt: Plexus Pound (A brutal Ganondorf fist right into the abdomen, knocking the enemy away. 15%)
U Tilt: Dark Strike (Ganondorf delivers a crushing blow to the underside of a character’s head, knocking them up. 16%)
D Tilt: Dark Sweep (Ganondorf drops into a crouch as one leg lashes out, knocking those he hits off their feet. One of his quicker moves. 14%)
F Smash: Warlock Slam (Ganondorf claps the enemy round the head with both hands at the same time, and uses his well-placed hands to drag the face down into a knee smash that spirals the character away. 20% Uncharged, 30% Charged)
U Smash: Explosion Kick (Ganondorf brings his leg straight up until his shin touches his forehead, then slams it back down, causing an explosion on impact with the ground that hurls players. Unlike Melee, you can perform the attack at any point of the charge, so it’s not as slow and restrictive. 15% Uncharged, 35% Charged)
D Smash: Roundhouse (Ganondorf spins and thumps his heel deep into the hip of the opposition. His fastest smash move. 12% Uncharged, 27% Charged)
Aerial Attacks:
N Air: Flip Kick (Same as Melee, he flips, potentially striking with both feet. 8% each foot.)
F Air: Warlock Spiral (Ganondorf spins horizontally in midair to deliver a powerful punch, knocking opponents forward. 15%)
B Air: Double Elbow Slam (Ganondorf simply slams his elbows backwards, driving them into any opponent behind him for high knockback. 11%)
U Air: Shadow Pulse (Ganondorf drives his hand up, and it flares with purple fire as it hits, knocking characters for six. 16%)
D Air: Shadow Crash (Ganondorf drives his fist downwards as purple fire flares around him. A meteor smash of epic proportions is delivered from the end of this move. 24%)
Special Attacks:
B: Gerudo Smash (Ganondorf charges forward, in an arrempt to punch the foe high into the air with a burning fist. Same as the Forward B move of Melee. 15%)
Smash B: Shadow Projectile (Ganondorf shoots a ball of that shadowy magic he uses in the end of TP, which moves relatively fast and has a moderate range, about that of Mario’s fireballs. 10%)
Up B: Twili Warp (Ganondorf transforms into those black pixels and can be moved in any direction for the duration of the move. Tapping B when the pixels are close to or touching a character reverts Ganondorf, placing him into an aerial grab, just like his Up B from Melee. The move has moderate distance, a lot more than his regular jumps. 10%)
Down B: Swordplay (If Ganondorf has his sword sheathed, he draws it in a horizontal slash, to the front, doing excellent knockback when timed right. When he has the sword out, the slash is repeated with a flare of magic around the blade, dealing an extra 5%. When he has the sword drawn, Ganondorf moves slower and attacks slower, but has greater range with his moves, and deals slightly more damage. In addition, all the Special Moves are changed. 18%) Note: I’m also debating preventing him from using most items while the sword is out, too. What’s your opinion?
B (Sword): Warlock Gore (Almost identical in animation to the Warlock Punch of Melee, this attack is an indefinite charger. As long as B is held, Ganondorf keeps charging the attack, at a hefty rate of around 10% per second. As soon as B is released, the attack is performed, stabbing the sword into the opponent’s gut.)
Smash B (Sword): Counter Blow (Ganondorf cuts across the chest of an opposing player. If timed just right, it will do an initial animation of blocking an attack, and has quite high blocking priority, before it slashes through the started opponent, dealing extra damage. 25%, 35% with a counter.)
Up B (Sword): Vortex (Ganondorf jumps, spinning vertically, cutting in a full 360-degree arc around him. Two rotations, and each hit deals a solid 18%. The final 90 degrees of the cut deal 25% instead. The jump is mostly upwards, low horizontal recovery, and quite a small jump in the first place.)
F Smash (Sword): Dark World Death (Ganondorf slashes downwards, which tends to pin characters in their spot, and then delivers a blazing magical knee slam. 25% Uncharged, 35% Charged)
Final Smash: Beast Within (Ganondorf morphs into Ganon for the remainder of the match.)
Grapple Attacks (Cannot be performed with Sword):
Grab: Gerudo Grip (Ganondorf reaches out and grasps a player, then pulls them in.)
Grab Attack: Beatdown (A series of slower strikes. 5%)
Forward Throw: 8%
Reverse Throw: 5%
Up Throw: 10%
Down Throw: 7%
Miscellaneous:
Edge Recovery: Footsmash (Ganondorf brings his fist/sword down on the area at the ledge, crushing the toes of anyone standing too close. 12%)
Aerial Tech: Air Grab (Ganondorf can perform his grabs in mid-air. If performed near an item, Ganondorf will grab the item instead. Ganondorf cannot use this with the sword out.)
Taunt: Ganondorf becomes a golden sphere of energy with his face distinguishable in the currents
, like how he appears to Zant in TP
. During the taunt, he becomes somewhat protected from flinching from projectile attacks.
I'm thinking of editting this one to change the Final Smash and remove Ganon altogether. Also, considering removing the sword stance from this and making Windwaker Ganondorf as a seperate moveset, cause that guy is incredibly awesome.
Whew, what a long post. Please, respond with any suggestions/criticisms/thoughts.
Whew, my first update.
My last update, namely, asking an admin that the threads be merged. Specifically, I asked that mine be merged into the original. chaos_Leader... lead the way! lol.
The only Ganondorf-related thread I found was for both Ganondorf and his pig form, Ganon, and it wasn’t linked in the Index Sticky, so I made this OFFICIAL Ganondorf thread. Not only that, but anyone can start a new thread for a character and just have one sentence for the post:
In line with other character-dedicated threads, I created a completely detailed introduction/background to Ganondorf, listed arguments for/against changes to Ganondorf, and created a very, very detailed moveset. The thread I mention above included no such features. I look at xianfeng’s OFFICIAL Diddy Kong thread as an ideal character thread, one to be looked up to and mirrored. He showed not only unwavering dedication to Diddy Kong, but put the time and effort to make a detailed and thorough-minded thread worthy of him. In addition, it brought together every Diddy lover/enthusiast in SmashBoards. That’s everything what I want this thread to be and more.
I know there is already a Ganondorf one, but mine is better
J/K, I just want Ganondorf, not Ganon/Ganondorf.
I guess you can say that, but don't you think the mod's possibly might lock it up? but yea Ganon look should be as that of Melee but with his own moveset unlike in Melee in Brawl he could have his moves from oot
Well the OFFICIAL Sonic thread was created even though there were like two others at the time. However, he threw OFFICIAL in the title, made his post thread worthy (not 1 line), and now that thread is not locked and is the OFFICIAL Sonic thread for the Index Sticky.
most of the characters in brawl are hand fighters ¬¬
what those who want him to be similar in brawl mean that ganondorf should be a powerful character with devasting attacks, still slow and fast faller, they dont want him to be to change so is not that hard for them that mastered him in melee to master him in brawl too. I support their idea of being a heavy, powerful, yet slow character, but disagree in the "he should be hand to hand, no sword" couse I support him having his sword, but not all the time, I prefer him using his hand fighting, with his sword in some of his moves, his hand fighting makes him special , but not having his sword is taking his TP form out.
thats what I support too. he moves very slow in TP, and is naturally powerful (what with the Triforce of Power and all). so he's stats wont change that much except for maybe his range. but either way, people are going to have to remaster him anyways. every character is going to have to be remastered, because a lot of things are going to change in the transition from Melee to Brawl.
LOL quite a few. At first I wasn't in the mood to make a thread despite how much I wanted some of my ideas to get out there, but then I saw Sakurai's confirmation of Diddy on DOJO, and his description was very similar to that in xangfeng's Diddy Kong thread. Of course I jumped to conclusions, figured that Sakurai and his team read that post and decided to borrow its ideas, and wanted the same to happen for Ganondorf
lets put it like this:
ganondorf is a powerful, heavy, slow, evil hand fighter in smash bros, but a hand fighter 100% is going to be exactly the same as melee ganondorf with different cinematics if they want him, heavy, slow, powerful. thas why the sword must be added, to add originality, but not overtaking his hand fighting spirit
also I think magic must be added,not only becuse it makes him even more original, but because ganondorf is a sorcerer.
I take what I said back earlier, this is a very detailed thread man, are a wiz or something? but yea Ganon needs to return despite what appearance he brings, I hope the overall result will be awesome
You guys have heard that one of the main guys who worked on Phantom Hourglass said he's been working on designs for Ganon and Sheik to be used in Brawl and that they're pretty much in it, right?
I forget where the article is but yeah, Ganon is epic
Heavy, very very powerful, slow and full of evil lol, preety much the same as his melee status.
I prefer his mage/hand-to-hand fighting style than his swordsman TP version, we have enough swordsmans lol. But he indeed has his sword with him couse not having his sword will just take his TP Ganondorfness out, he has it in his waist and uses it in some of his normal A attacks, some tilts and aome smash attacks and his side B.
Standard B: Rises his hand which will start to glow and later shoots a ball of light, is fast but not that powerful, has some knock back. It can be charged, to increase the number of magic balls. When charging it, the glow will become in a black cloud in his hand. When fully charged, will shoot 3 balls of light which track enemies. The not charged ball doesnt take that much time to shoot as it seems, it take a little bit more than Link's not charged arrows. The charged attack does take some time, which makes it bad for close combat, but is very effective when shooting it from distance. (Ocarina of Time)
Up B: He will morph in Twilight matter...pixels or whatever, in the thing he turns to get inside Zelda in TP. He is able to move freely for some time (2 secons) while in this form in any direction by holding B, but is kinda slow, making it easy for an opponent to know where he will morph back, it takes some time to recover after morphing back. You are able to morph back by yourself by Stopping holding B. You can go through enemies. If you stop holding B while going through an enemie (being in the same space) it will create an explosion instead (like C. Falcon's Up B, does the same damage and knock back), and he will morph back faster and recovered, being abl;e to attack or dojng B moves, like after hitting with C. Falcon's Up B. Is preety much a different more evil, dark, TP version of his Melee Up B. (Twilight Princess, kinda lol)
Down B: He will he the ground with a powerfull punch (his had will glow green with some green smoke) and create a wave around him, which will knock enemies in an angle depending of how close to Ganondorf they are, the closest, the uppest (if this word exeist lol), and more damaging. If done in the air, he will go down like Yochi's Down B, and the wave will be a little bit bigger, but not that much, but enough to see the difference. If he connects with an enemie in the ground while doing it in the air, he will punch him very hard, making some good damage and sending them up. If it connect with an enemie while the enemie is in the air, it works as a smash attack. (Ocarina of Time)
Side B: He will draw his sword, charge, and thrust forward very hard, is not as powerful as Falcons Punch and doesnt have that much knock back, but it does have good knock back and it takes a little bit less to charge. (Twilight Princess)
Final Smash: Turn into Ganon. (Almost every Zelda game)
This I think is a balanced version of his hand fighting, magic abilities (he is indeed a sorcerer) and his sword fighting, and aslo taking the B attacks from both OoT and TP, and not only basing it in only one game.
![Terywj [태리]](/data/avatars/l/71/71007.jpg?1555906021){kind=avatar}
, but not having his sword is taking his TP form out.
