Official Ganon/Ganondorf for Brawl (updated)

[chaos_Leader]

You all know who he is. He's the big man of the Zelda series himself. (for those who know little or nothing of Ganondorf, I recommend you go here and do just a little research.

Here is the old front page if you want to look at it:Meleo's former Front page

Why Ganondorf?:

-He's been the main villain of the very successful Legend of Zelda Series for over 20 years

He's been plotting, kidnapping princesses, conquering whole worlds, possessing innocent bystanders for his own purposes, and so much more.​

-Brawl needs more big burly sorcerers/bare-kunckle fighters/swordsmen/anything else I missed.

If you think Zelda's "glowing hands and feet" will hurt, wait till this guy pours the magic on his already painful blows. A guy who consistently breaks out of seals in the evil realm, conquers various worlds in record time, survives getting impaled and still gives everyone a bad day with his world conquering and such surely makes a good SSBB character​

-He is a popular character in Melee for one.

Need I say more?​

-He is useful to help balance the game by filling a niche

That is to say no current confirmed character is quite like Ganondorf. You can argue Ike is like him, but you'd be wrong anyway you went with it. Ike is at best a little taller than Link, he'd barely be on the heavy side of characters. Ganondorf is at least a good 6' 6" with plenty of muscle. Way larger and heaver than Ike. He's by no means as heavy as Bowser or DK, but he is still up there.​

-He is a villain,

There has been some expressed interest by the development at Sora Ltd. to include more villains, its only a minor thing compared to what else is going for him.​

Probable Looks:

Ganondorf has appeared in several forms and variations, the most recent and significant are listed here. You don't have to pay attention to the swords; whether he wields a sword or not for Brawl is up to you to discuss, not the images to predict.

Ocarina of Time appearance (left): Twilight Princess appearance: (right)​

Wind Waker appearance:​

Fighting style:

No matter how Ganondorf appears, he is more than likely to use a sword as this was his weapon of choice in the last couple major Zelda games. However, with the current surplus of confirmed sword wielders, it is entirely possible he may fight with his bare hands/dark magic. Or, a third suggested option is to have a draw/sheath sword transformation. All of which are in character for Ganonorf

From MeLeo's original front page:

Arguments for/against Changing Ganondorf

Now I know a lot of you want Ganondorf to have a sword in Brawl, but I don’t think he should. Ganondorf is fine in Melee without a sword (albeit in need of a little improvement). His aggressive martial arts/street fighting style suits him perfectly. I feel the only reason why many people want him to have a sword is because of how great the final sword fight with him in TP is.

In OoT, only his pig form uses a sword (duel swords actually). In Wind Waker, Ganondorf once again wields duel swords. In TP Ganondorf uses one sword.

Duel swords: I feel that duel swords would not work well for Ganondorf in Brawl. The only way I could think of duel swords being used would be like DK’s moveset in Melee, like his smashes.

Single sword: Moving on to the final sword fight in TP, true, Ganondorf does look cool fighting with such a sword... in Twilight Princess! Brawl is not Twilight Princess and I feel his TP sword transition into Brawl would NOT go well. Besides, Ike has taken Brawl’s place of “heavy swordsman”, maybe Link too.

I've seen some people argue that Ganondorf used a sword in most of his games, so that's why he should have a sword. The same argument is used for supporting Ganon or a "magic-based" Ganondorf for Brawl. This argument holds no water. Taking all of the Zelda games where Ganon/Ganondorf appears into account, you'll find that he did NOT use any weapon exclusively.

In the early games where only Ganon appeared, he used a combination of a trident, melee attacks, and magic. In the games where Ganondorf appears, he uses a combination of a sword(s), melee attacks, and magic. So as you can see, there is no exclusive weapon Ganondorf uses. Therefore, that argument cannot be used for/against any type of weapon you think he should'shouldn't use.

Another reson I just thought of for keeping Ganondorf melee-based is that the only other two Zelda characters in Brawl (Link and Zelda) are not melee-based. Link is a swordsman and Zelda uses magical attacks. That way, with a melee-based Ganondorf, the three Zelda characters would balance each other out. In addition, Link's Triforce is courage (Master Sword), Zelda's is wisdom (magic), and Ganondorf's is Power (brute strength).

However, thanks to Sakurai’s creation of Final Smashes in Brawl, Ganondorf can now wield a sword in Brawl without ruining his moveset. Some people suggested that Ganondorf’s pig form be his Final Smash, but that’s not likely. Bowser already has such a Final Smash in the form of Giga Bowser, and Giga Bowser had a special place in Melee’s single player.

One frequent argument used to give Ganondorf a sword in Brawl is “Well, in Melee he’s Falcon’s clone, so he needs a new, unique moveset, which can only be achieved by utilizing his sword.” WRONG
Even though he is Falcon’s clone in Melee, their fighting styles are completely different! Just because two moves look the same or have similar animations doesn’t mean they have the same effects.

Examples with Ganondorf and Falcon:
Falcon’s Uair: Hitbox ends 3 frames before Ganondorf’s does (roughly when his leg is 45 degrees to the horizontal), which is why he cannot do Reverse Uair.
Falcon’s Dair: 6 less damage than Ganondorf’s, much smaller hitbox, much smaller knockback, and the same exact hitbox frames as Ganondorf’s.

Other Examples:
Fox and Falco, Marth and Roy: Identical frame times for most attacks, identical animations for most attacks, but completely different effects by the attacks, thus, completely different fighting styles.

In conclusion, I want Ganondorf to retain his Melee moveset, but with a few changes and improvements. Below is my proposed moveset for Ganondorf. Now without further ado, I bring you my proposed moveset for Ganondorf!

(see MeLeo's moveset in the index below)

Some clever folks have compiled a few speculative possible movesets for Gannondorf:

Current Moveset Index:
MeLeo's Former front page and Moveset Great detail on this one.
ClarkJables' Moveset
T-major's Moveset
LuLLo's Moveset
Noshiee's Moveset
Vagrant Lustoid's Moveset
Jakatsu's Moveset
Kunitsuna's Moveset
Bowserlick's Moveset
Hydde's Moveset
Deception's Moveset

I will do my best to periodically update this thread if/when needed.
(If you see something that you reallywant changed super-badly and can give reasonable and convincing reasons, PM me. You may also PM me if you have a moveset you would like added to the index)

I'm pretty easygoing with my opinions, I simply bring up the points that could be discussed.
Feel free to support/comment/criticize/flame/ect.

 

[Bassoonist]

Ganondorf should definitely return. I just hope he gets a new moveset.

One has to admit, it just wouldn't make sense to have Link and Zelda in, but no Ganondorf. I'm sure he'll be in.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I definetly think he should come back with his own moveset, and if he has his sword aroung that would be total PWNAGE!!

btw, I could have sworn i've seen a topic about ganon before

 

[ClarkJables]

i have an idea for gannondorf's moveset this time around, what do you guys think.

ok gannondorf first of all has the ability to switch between hand-to-hand fighting and using his two handed sword. most of his hand fighting moves stay the same from melee, just tweaked to maybe be a little faster. the sword moves will be mostly original, since they can borrow some elements from ike's two handed fighting and transfer it over to gannon, tweaking it to fit gannons style. the b moves while in hand fighting are mostly magic. heres how i could see some of them working

VB- switch stance, this lets him switch between sword and hand, there is some lag, but i am thinking if the sword is holstered to his waist, he can withdrawl it and perform a horizontal slash at the same time. since it is a two handed sword on the other hand, it will most likely be back holstered. in this case he can do a vertical slash, or no slash at all.

B- stun shot, this move is mostly drawn from the cutscene in OoT where link encounters G on the horse chasing after zelda as she flees from the castle. he charges the small ball of dark magic in his hand for 3 seconds, and then releases it. the bolt does 7% damage, and causes some stun and some knockback, but mostly knockback. with his sword drawn, G channels the dark magic through his blade. he thrusts the blade forward like a lance and the magic goes out of the tip of the sword. it of course goes forward, moving similar to M2's charge ball, except slower.

the other two are still blanks but i feel these two give a good idea of how he would work. now for his final smash i have two idea's. the first is that he could transform into gannon, and then his moves would be an extention of his swordplay, except modeled for 1 hand. now the second one, which i like more, would be he summons 3 phantom ganons, who ride across the arena, knocking people out of the way with their horses. when they reach the other end they rain magic bolts down onto the stage

 

[chaos_Leader]

@GigaKoopa: I thought that too, I guess he's just kinda spread out through the other posts.
Moving on;
Do you remember the WW Ganon? out of all the Legend of Zelda Ganons I've dealt with, that one gave me the most trouble. As cool as the TP version is I have to say, WW Ganon is my personal favorite. For once Ganon actually looked something like an evil wizard, and then he whipped out his 2 pwn swords at the end and nearly kicked my ***. And also, how many single sword characters do we have now, 3? a little variety would be nice.

 

[ClarkJables]

well if my moveset idea is implimented, ganondorf will so far be the only sword user able to switch to hand to hand combat. and pit already has two sword, plus a ganondorf who wears a robe doesn't seem that threatening. although i liked the OoT model the best because the tp model feel like he is a rich fat guy, while in OoT you knew by his look that he meant buissness

 

[jambre]

WW ganondorf reminds me of a fat man in a gown
although TP ganondorf has a head as wide as WW ganons belly i still prefer him and his boss fight was so much better IMO

i would like to see a sword with ganondorf but not all of his moves as he does use his fists aswell

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Oh wow. We don't.

I would either like to see Ganondorf with his sword as in TP or possibly keep him as a fist fighter but involve more grapple/hold moves and make him more....insane? I am thinking in the line of Iori from King of Fighters crazy. Like he would run at someone, grab thier face, push them into the ground, and fire up a large magical blast.

I also vote for him to transform to Ganon for his Final.

 

[jambre]

oh yes i think it will definatly have him turning into ganon for his final smash, similar to giga bowser i think

 

[IllidR]

I really hope he uses a sword this time around. Being a falcon clone is just crap.

 

[ClarkJables]

I really hope he uses a sword this time around. Being a falcon clone is just crap.

i don't know, his a moveset from melee fit him very niceley, all you would have to do is give him new and original b moves, maybe the ability to switch from hand combat to sword combat

 

[IllidR]

i don't know, his a moveset from melee fit him very niceley, all you would have to do is give him new and original b moves, maybe the ability to switch from hand combat to sword combat

I think the main villain from a huge franchise such as Zelda deserves a little more than to be Falcon's understudy. A whole moveset revamp would be best.

 

[ClarkJables]

well of course he would get b moves to suit his character more but for the most part his a moveset was original. i mean i felt it fit him very well, now since sakurai is updating and adding allot of abilities to returning character ganondorf will most definetly receive a moveset overall, but i think for the most part, his A moveset should stay as intact as possible

 

[T-major]

Ganondorf is my #1 wanted character to return for Brawl! he's way to important to the Zelda franchise to be cut, and being a Falcon clone in Melee was just plain blasphemy!

this time around, Ganondorf should have his sword from TP (God that sword is awesome...). I think they should incorperate some hand-to-hand attacks into his move-set to; because thats what I picture when I think of Ganondorf fighting.

::EDIT::

Moved moveset to a recent post.

 

[Procrasticritter]

for Ganondorf it is not a question of if, just a question of WHEN. He's definitely going to return, becasue if he doesn't its going to make alot of people angry...

 

[Chrisiscool]

i think they will keep
down B
down A and Dair
right A and Rair
up A
A
all from melee

then the rest of his moves with sword combat.

watch it be true ! lol

 

[Tau]

Ganondorf's upB: Twilight Warp (name by T-major)

well since ganondorf will return as the TP model, his upB should be him turning into those twilight pixels and moving in a similar way to how pikachu does his upB. it would be just as quick and then he would return to his normal form. here's the video of him doing this in TP- http://youtube.com/watch?v=jeX9jXH-n9Q (just skip to 3:28)

oh, and his final smash should be Beast ganon just imagine, Giga bowser vs Beast ganon! XD but i dont know often the final smash orb will come around.. anyway, tell me what you think of this idea for his upB.

 

[Hax]

i agree with the poster who said the B specials will stay but the other moves will change so he uses his sword which will probably make him better. he's obviously returning, though.

 

[SonicMario]

Just give him the Big nOOb pwning sword in Brawl. And Ganondorf is already better then he ever was. They teased us with that in both his Challenger Approaching & his Trophy.

 

[MageNinja]

I think the main villain from a huge franchise such as Zelda deserves a little more than to be Falcon's understudy. A whole moveset revamp would be best.

I second that motion.

 

[Tau]

yeah, he really does deserve a whole new moveset. there was only like three villains in melee and they had to make him a clone...

 

[2007]

So, it's not like Ganondorf didn't have "teh uber pwnage" as a clone.
Nonetheless, I can't wait to see how wicked he looks in Brawl.

and yes, I meant WHEN he returns, not IF he returns.

 

[Link Sharingan]

the only B move i want to stay is the gerudo foot and the dive

 

[SehkmetCLS]

He'd probably be in his TP outfit (or one based on, let it be so!).

For movesets, well, go all out, the Dark Lord deserves more then C.Falcon's set.
How about a swing with the sword in 360, longer range the longer you hold the B.
And it would be about **** time he'd use some dark arts to kick some Smash...(O.o).

And I'm not talking bout his purple glow, just some kind of uber punch (better then C.Falcons ) or some kind of magic/punch/kick combo.

Anyway, they got enough to make of it.

final smash idea btw, he calls out all his pevious forms to battle.
Boar from TP, Phantom Ganon from WW and OoT (charging round the screen from random angles while laughing = major win), maybe the puppet version too and ofc his big sword type from OoT.
And then some major dark blast to finish off, Triforce Unleash or something?

The Dark Lord has enough potential, that's for **** sure.

 

[Neanderthal]

i think they will keep
down B
down A and Dair
right A and Rair
up A
A
all from melee

then the rest of his moves with sword combat.

watch it be true ! lol

Dont thinks so, their not just going to do it half way, they'll make every move unique
He looks quite a bit different in TP not sure if it'll look better than in melee or not...

 

[Cyberbot5000]

Long live the King of Evil---

He has so many possible moves from magic, sword and fist they could really make him one of the best brawlers ever

 

[Tonyman]

What i still wonder is if he uses sword...Which one will he use, the one of the sages form TP or the one when he wins at SSBM, the really big one.

 

[Noshiee]

Ganondorf

B = shoots a light energy ball from his hand, can be charged so it shoots more of them in a spreaded fashion. (when charging, the screen get a little more darker, exept around ganondorf)

Down B = Punshes down creating a big wave of energy, if done in air, it will go down like kirby's brick.

Final Smash = Transforms in Ganon from Ocarina of Time lol.

I dont know about the rest

 

[T-major]

ok. I going to post the rest of the B move-set that I started, but didn't finish.


B: energy shot (better name anybody?) : based on his attacks from your battle with him in OoT, this energy ball attack is a little different this time around. the energy balls center is pitch black, but has a bright yellow-redish glow around the outside. by quickly tapping B you can send out a fast, but weak (about 4%-6%), long range shot that stuns your opponent slightly. it has little ending lag (but a bit of start up lag), so you can follow it up with an a melee attack, OR, another energy shot.

thats not all! if you hold B, you can charge it up! while charging, you can very slowly move left and right; it takes about 3 seconds to fully charge, but once it does, you get a much stronger energy ball; it moves at about half the speed of an uncharged ball, but is also twice as powerful (15%-20%). it also causes some good knock-back.

B forward: Dark rush; if you watch this (skip to 4:45) you'll see that Ganondorf does a dash with his hand out, then grabs and kills one of the sages. I think this would be a great thing to base a move on; Ganondorf will draw his hand back, then thrust it forward causing him to quickly slide (medium range) forward. if an opponent is in range of the dash you will grab them (does 10% damage), you can then press A to cause more damage (4% with each attack). pressing forward or back will cause you to throw them in that direction (up and down don't do anything).

Up B: Twilight Warp; Tau beat me to the punch on this one; but I think a good recovery move would be Ganondorf turning into twilight particles and moving upwards. you would be able to control its direction (like Fox's Up B) and trajectory (Zelda's forward B); and while in Twilight form you can't be attacked, and can move through opponents. this would be a very good recovery move, but the downside is that it doesn't move fast, has some lag, and because you can see the particles it easy to predict where your going.

Down B: ???; I'm not quite sure about this one....... a little help with this one.. cause I'm drawing a blank.. maybe something involving the Triforce of power? A shield that blocks attacks maybe?

 

[Noshiee]

it can be my Down B that is a post avobe yours, where he punches the ground creatin a shock wave, he does it in OoT to brake the floor when you fight him, and also to damage you.

 

[prettymanfairy]

Ganondorf is a magic user. I think he should have moves that correspond. His final smash could be him as Ganon, kinda like Bowser transforming into Giga Bowser.

 

[In touch with the wii]

i like the idea of him turning into a boar as a fsa then charging randomly but it would be easy to dodge unlike the other ones what about you control where the portal like in tp and iver point the wiimote at the screen where you want it or have a cursor and move it to the points you want to move in and out, but they can only use it twice

 

[=ImP=]

m hm i agree ganon for the win i think that they should keep him just change his moves from captain falcons to moves that compliment him more

 

[Wyvern]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I kind of hope that Ganon changes as little as possible. I know, he was technically a Captain Falcon clone, but he just had such a distinctive feel to him. There is nothing more satisfying than feeling the impact of striking someone just after the delay on one of those unbelievably powerful aerials, or watching an opponent get torn apart by those double-hitting smashes. Heck, even his jab is surging with power! Why have another sword wielder when instead you can have a guy who crushes your skull with his bare hands?

Obviously, he can't possibly stay exactly the same, because he has to get de-cloned one way or another. But I think he'll keep his hand-to-hand style anyway (though probably with some more magic worked in) rather than fight with one of his various sword styles. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that he should get to steal some of Captain Falcon's moves and keep them for himself! (The up and down smashes come to mind, since they just suit him so incredibly well. And he needs to keep the facestomp! He and Falcon can share that one.) And of course the fair and the jab are uniquely his anyway (and I must say, I love that jab!). The B moves should be completely redone, though. The only one I really like on him is the kick, and they could easily work in a similar quick, long-range move with a more characteristic flavor to it.

We already have a heavy, powerful, long-range swordsman in Ike, and I just worry that we would lose more than we'd gain in trying to give Ganondorf an entire sword-based moveset. Nobody else fights like Ganondorf (least of all Captain Falcon, impressively enough!), and it would be a real shame to lose the niche he fills now. Anything he could do with a sword would just feel too generic after playing as the Ganondorf of old.

 

[The Brawler]

I did have fun fighting against him with my freinds.. but i dint main him lol. But he was cool than again i doubt he will make it back Thers gonna be to many new characters tons i dont even like. I mean comon pokemon trainer Ganon should make it back and they should take out the pokemon trainer but they cant now.

 

[T-major]

it can be my Down B that is a post avobe yours, where he punches the ground creatin a shock wave, he does it in OoT to brake the floor when you fight him, and also to damage you.

that sounds good. works for me.

i like the idea of him turning into a boar as a fsa then charging randomly but it would be easy to dodge unlike the other ones what about you control where the portal like in tp and iver point the wiimote at the screen where you want it or have a cursor and move it to the points you want to move in and out, but they can only use it twice

that won't work. because the gamecube and Classic controller don't use motion control.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I kind of hope that Ganon changes as little as possible. I know, he was technically a Captain Falcon clone, but he just had such a distinctive feel to him. Not for me. the whole reason I don't use him in melee is because he was unoriginal and a clone.

Why have another sword wielder when instead you can have a guy who crushes your skull with his bare hands? because Sword users are awesome, and the one he has in TP is (in my opinion) the coolest sword in history!

Obviously, he can't possibly stay exactly the same, because he has to get de-cloned one way or another. But I think he'll keep his hand-to-hand style anyway (though probably with some more magic worked in) rather than fight with one of his various sword styles. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that he should get to steal some of Captain Falcon's moves and keep them for himself! (The up and down smashes come to mind, since they just suit him so incredibly well. And he needs to keep the facestomp! He and Falcon can share that one.) And of course the fair and the jab are uniquely his anyway (and I must say, I love that jab!). The B moves should be completely redone, though. The only one I really like on him is the kick, and they could easily work in a similar quick, long-range move with a more characteristic flavor to it. I disagree with pretty much everything in this. Ganondorf should use his Sword from TP. It makes the most sense seeing as he needs to have that desing to fit with the other Zelda character (you can't have TP Link fighting OoT Ganondorf). however, this also works in your favor too; becuase his fighting style in TP sort of mixed Hand-to-hand attacks with Sword attacks, giving him a completely original moveset (I see more then half his moves involving Hands attacks).

We already have a heavy, powerful, long-range swordsman in Ike But Ike and Ganondorf fight completely differently, so this is invalid , and I just worry that we would lose more than we'd gain in trying to give Ganondorf an entire sword-based moveset. heres the thing though... we can't lose anything in Ganondorf, because we didn't have anything that was Ganondorf to begin with. he was a clone, every move except for his Fair was taken from Captain Falcon. nothing about his Move-set was Representing of him, or the Zelda games. when did he use the "Warlock Punch" in Oot?... oh thats right, he didn't. every time you fought him in the games he has either: A) attacked you with magic from a distance. or B) used swords. so hand to hand fighting is out, (ESPECIALLY if those attacks belong to Captain Falcon), and Sword fighting is in! Anything he could do with a sword would just feel too generic after playing as the Ganondorf of old. No. it would feel original because he was a clone in old

also, I want to apologise in advanced if I sounded rude the that response. I was just stating my opinion, and I tend to get a little sarcastic and "mean" when I do.

I did have fun fighting against him with my freinds.. but i dint main him lol. But he was cool than again i doubt he will make it back Thers gonna be to many new characters tons i dont even like. I mean comon pokemon trainer Ganon should make it back and they should take out the pokemon trainer but they cant now.

...um... wait... what? first of all, Pokemon Trainer is a deserving, interesting, and original character. second, how does he being in Brawl effect Ganondorf in ANY WAY!!?

 

[FalconPunch]

They had better keep his Stomp and Punch. POOOOOWWWEEEEERR!!!

 

[OysterMeister]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I kind of hope that Ganon changes as little as possible. I know, he was technically a Captain Falcon clone, but he just had such a distinctive feel to him. There is nothing more satisfying than feeling the impact of striking someone just after the delay on one of those unbelievably powerful aerials, or watching an opponent get torn apart by those double-hitting smashes. Heck, even his jab is surging with power! Why have another sword wielder when instead you can have a guy who crushes your skull with his bare hands?

As a man who mains Ganondorf, I can say that I wholeheartedly agree. Although I fully expect Ganondorf to return with a new moveset, there're also many aspects of his old moveset that I don't want to lose, such as his jab, down B, and of course the stomp.

Personaly, I would use the sword almost exclusively for smash attacks. I see Ganondorf materializing the sword from a cloud of evil energy, whipping it around for an extremely powerful attack with great range, and then letting it dematerialize as he continues to kick his enemies in the face.

But what I REALLY want to see most of all is Ganon, in all his piggy, monster-tastic glory.
I see many people here who favor Ganon as a final smash only, but I say no. I think that if Sakurai is going to take the time to implement Ganon as even semi-playable for a final smash, then he might as well go all the way and fully implement Ganon for the game, rather than limit him to short, Final-Smash induced bursts.

 

[Wyvern]

Not for me. the whole reason I don't use him in melee is because he was unoriginal and a clone.

If you immediately tossed Ganondorf aside and never looked at him again because of his status as a clone, then you missed out on a lot. Even though the movements of his body match Captain Falcon's, his actual style of fighting is completely different, not only from CF himself, but from the entire rest of the roster. Ganondorf is the only character in the game who not only has really powerful moves, but is also able to use them effectively. Sure, you can play as Bowser, but if you want to do well, you need to ignore the awe-inspiring fsmash and rely more on the quick fair and Fortress. You can do well with Link, but it generally requires you keep his speed up with a heavy reliance on the quicker, weaker moves like the nair. Ganondorf was the only character who really fought with the power moves. He was the savior to heavy characters everywhere! If you removed Doctor Mario, the game would be exactly the same. If you removed Ganondorf, something very fun and very distinctive would be missing.

Here's how I picture Ganondorf. A match with Ganon will always be very short and very bloody. On the one hand, his offensive abilities are irrationally powerful, and he's going to be able to kill you in maybe four or five lucky shots. On the other hand, he has one of the worst recoveries in the entire game, and will not last too long against any opponent, either. As a result, he has an incredibly aggressive, in-your-face style of fighting, involving a constant barrage of your most powerful moves, having absolutely no defense aside from his godlike offense.

I can't imagine SSB-Ganondorf fighting from the "safe distance" of the other end of a giant sword. And I can't imagine any way that they could reconcile that kind of ridiculous offensive potency with that kind of range. Having a sword would probably necessitate the removal of some of Ganondorf's power, and as soon as you reduce his power, you completely strip him of his identity as a fighter. That's why I think he shouldn't use a sword all the time.

...his fighting style in TP sort of mixed Hand-to-hand attacks with Sword attacks, giving him a completely original moveset (I see more then half his moves involving Hands attacks)

I'm not trying to say there's no way to work the sword in at all. I could picture him summoning a sword out of midair for his fsmash (the CF one is lame anyway) and some of his specials. However, I can't picture him carrying a sword all the time, and I feel that the vast majority of his offense should stay as hand-to-hand attacks or close-range magic (a la Zelda).

we can't lose anything in Ganondorf, because we didn't have anything that was Ganondorf to begin with. he was a clone, every move except for his Fair was taken from Captain Falcon. nothing about his Move-set was Representing of him, or the Zelda games. when did he use the "Warlock Punch" in Oot?... oh thats right, he didn't.

I'm starting to feel like we are talking about different things here. I'm not trying to preserve the way SSBM-Ganondorf looks or moves. I fully expect and hope for a lot of his A moves and all of his B moves to be changed to something with real Legend of Zelda flavor. I'm trying to preserve the way he fights. Because even if the animation frames were pilfered from Captain Falcon, nobody in SSB history has ever truly fought the way Ganondorf fights. When I said I wanted him to keep the upsmash and downsmash, I didn't say it because of how they looked. I said it because of the way they mercelessly crush your opponents! I'm pretty sure that Ganondorf's upsmash is the single most damaging attack in the entire game, assuming both hits connect, and it's not exactly slow to come out either. That's pure Ganondorf to me, even if Captain Falcon went through the flipping double-kick motion first. Ganondorf is the holder of the Triforce of Power, and if nothing else, in SSBM, Ganondorf is power incarnate.

 

[T-major]

If you immediately tossed Ganondorf aside and never looked at him again because of his status as a clone, then you missed out on a lot. Even though the movements of his body match Captain Falcon's, his actual style of fighting is completely different, not only from CF himself, but from the entire rest of the roster. Ganondorf is the only character in the game who not only has really powerful moves, but is also able to use them effectively. Sure, you can play as Bowser, but if you want to do well, you need to ignore the awe-inspiring fsmash and rely more on the quick fair and Fortress. You can do well with Link, but it generally requires you keep his speed up with a heavy reliance on the quicker, weaker moves like the nair. Ganondorf was the only character who really fought with the power moves. He was the savior to heavy characters everywhere! If you removed Doctor Mario, the game would be exactly the same. If you removed Ganondorf, something very fun and very distinctive would be missing.

sure, you have to use him differently then any other character, that still dosn't change the fact that he didn't have any moves that were his own. I used to main C. Falcon, so it's not that I don't like the moves; it's more the principle! Ganondorf is the main Villian of the Zelda series, thats a VERY big role! the thought of him being a clone, (regardless of how different he plays) given all the possible originality they could pump into him, as well as the importance he has to his series, is nothing short of ridiculous! as far as I'm concerned, Ganondorf wasn't fully in Melee because he didn't do anything that Ganondorf does. he did things that Captain Falcon does! (albeit a little differently)


I can't imagine SSB-Ganondorf fighting from the "safe distance" of the other end of a giant sword. And I can't imagine any way that they could reconcile that kind of ridiculous offensive potency with that kind of range. Having a sword would probably necessitate the removal of some of Ganondorf's power, and as soon as you reduce his power, you completely strip him of his identity as a fighter. That's why I think he shouldn't use a sword all the time.

(this is going to sound rude, but) To bad! we need an acurate dipiction of Ganondorf, and everytime you've fought Ganondorf directly, he's used a sword... pretty much all the time.

I'm not trying to say there's no way to work the sword in at all. I could picture him summoning a sword out of midair for his fsmash (the CF one is lame anyway) and some of his specials. However, I can't picture him carrying a sword all the time, and I feel that the vast majority of his offense should stay as hand-to-hand attacks or close-range magic (a la Zelda).

agian, too bad! when you fight him in TP, Ganondorf has that beautiful sword out at all times. however he does use some hand to hand attacks as well, which is why I think about half his moves should use his hands. for example, in your fight with him in TP, he does a jump towards you and rams you with the side of his arm, he then spins around and slashes you with his sword (look it up on youtube if you want to see it). thats something I think of when I picture Ganondorf fighting. Hand-to-hand, mixed with Sword fighting. thats original, and fitting of Ganondorf. in the end, this works out for both of us.

I'm starting to feel like we are talking about different things here. I'm not trying to preserve the way SSBM-Ganondorf looks or moves. I fully expect and hope for a lot of his A moves and all of his B moves to be changed to something with real Legend of Zelda flavor. I'm trying to preserve the way he fights. Because even if the animation frames were pilfered from Captain Falcon, nobody in SSB history has ever truly fought the way Ganondorf fights. When I said I wanted him to keep the upsmash and downsmash, I didn't say it because of how they looked. I said it because of the way they mercelessly crush your opponents! I'm pretty sure that Ganondorf's upsmash is the single most damaging attack in the entire game, assuming both hits connect, and it's not exactly slow to come out either. That's pure Ganondorf to me, even if Captain Falcon went through the flipping double-kick motion first. Ganondorf is the holder of the Triforce of Power, and if nothing else, in SSBM, Ganondorf is power incarnate.

I see where your coming from, and I understand your position. but you see, I'm trying to preserve the way he fights too. the way he fights, in the zelda games. Ganondorf in Melee, dosen't fight like Ganondorf in Zelda. it's like there to different characters.