Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yup it plays just fine on the Wii

 

[Deleted member]

Does the crowd actually chant "Dong-dong!" for Jigglypuff for French and German?

 

[circa26]

Hey guys, sorry if this has been discussed but i can't find anything. Been trying to install 20XX for dolphin on mac and been having some problems with wine specifically. When trying to open the exe files required (the gamecube rebuilder), i'm getting the message 'unable to find a version of the runtime to run this application'. I've downloaded both versions of wine available on the website and have had this problem with both. Any suggestions on how to solve this problem would be much appreciated! this is the 20xx guide i'm using https://imgur.com/a/wKUPx

edit: managed to get it working. you have to create it as an app bundle if anyone's having the same problem

 

[Bigherolike6]

What are all the techs/skills that I will need to know to hold my own in a competitive match?

 

[KevJames]

What's with the drop in Falco mains nowadays? I noticed a lot of high-level Falco mains have switched to Fox. If I'm not mistaken, Mango only plays Falco for the Fox matchup to avoid the ditto. Zhu has recently switched to Fox. Westballz has been using a lot of Fox in tournament. Can Falco no longer win majors without a secondary? Is Fox just superior in every way?

 

[Benny P]

I was wondering, could someone make a seperate forum for doubles? i think it could help things tremendously and then there would be less "X character in doubles?" posts.

 

[Bones0]

What's with the drop in Falco mains nowadays? I noticed a lot of high-level Falco mains have switched to Fox. If I'm not mistaken, Mango only plays Falco for the Fox matchup to avoid the ditto. Zhu has recently switched to Fox. Westballz has been using a lot of Fox in tournament. Can Falco no longer win majors without a secondary? Is Fox just superior in every way?

It's just the natural shift in the metagame. For Falco specifically, I think the floaty matchups requiring a ton of precision and people dealing with lasers and pressure better are causing Falco mains to switch. Fox has an overall easier time vs. floaties because of his vertical KO setups, and most Falco mains didn't use him vs. floaties to begin with (Zhu, for example, has always used Fox vs. Peach and Puff). Characters have had the metagame tilt out of their favor in the past, but Fox/Falco are not only the most common characters overall, but the most common dual main pair. This has led to an easier mass migration than for a character like Marth who was struggling in the meta a few years ago, but whose players did not have a consistent secondary across the board.

 

[Dolla Pills]

What are all the techs/skills that I will need to know to hold my own in a competitive match?

In my opinion the most important fundementals to learn as far as stick movements and button presses go are DI (because otherwise you will feel hopelessly destroyed), L canceling (if you miss an L cancel it is a free punish for your opponent or cause you to drop combos/follow ups), and movement options such as dash dancing and wave dashing so you don't get shut down too easily.

It is also my opinion that mental aspects of the game are more important (check out the drastic improvement thread) but you can't practice those by yourself too effectively, and you do obviously need to learn basic tech skill to hold your own. Just don't get caught up in trying to moonwalk or whatever else because that's not really necessary.

 

[CeLL]

I see sometimes where people land on a platform in tumble, tech, and then edge cancel the tech. What causes this and is it feasible to do it on purpose?

 

[tauKhan]

I see sometimes where people land on a platform in tumble, tech, and then edge cancel the tech. What causes this and is it feasible to do it on purpose?

Teching in place doesn't prevent you from falling off edges. This is different to tech rolls which do prevent you from falling during them. I'm not sure how exactly the TIP alters momentum, but at least it doesn't stop you, and I think you lose speed pretty much the same manner if you miss tech.

Sliding off platforms from missed tech/ TIP can be very useful in many situations. For example you can sometimes escape marth's platform combos by asding utilts to hit the plat and sliding off. I don't think there's much difference if you TIP or if you miss tech, but it might be better to TIP just in case you don't have enough speed to carry you off edge.

 

[Sleepy Driz]

Out of normal ledge get up, get up attack, and roll, which option allows you to edge hog the longest?

 

[Bones0]

Out of normal ledge get up, get up attack, and roll, which option allows you to edge hog the longest?

It's character dependent. Check the hitboxes/frame data thread of your character. I believe ledge occupancy lasts for the duration of the animation, but I'm not sure.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

roll > attack > stand

edit- bones is right, there are exceptions. General rule though ^

 

[kingPiano]

What's with the drop in Falco mains nowadays? I noticed a lot of high-level Falco mains have switched to Fox. If I'm not mistaken, Mango only plays Falco for the Fox matchup to avoid the ditto. Zhu has recently switched to Fox. Westballz has been using a lot of Fox in tournament. Can Falco no longer win majors without a secondary? Is Fox just superior in every way?

Far superior ground speed for following up on confirms, MUCH stronger Up-Smash, easy shine gimps, and longer Up-B / Side-B recovery.


and he looks like a corgi

////////////////////////////////////

 

[Benny P]

how do i leave the thread

 

[kingPiano]

how do i leave the thread

At the top right by the title there is an "Unwatch Thread" hyperlink

 

[Benny P]

At the top right by the title there is an "Unwatch Thread" hyperlink

Thank you. It's a good thread though

 

[Eonn]

I'm new to Melee. What are some characters that require minimal skill but are still viable? I've used Pikachu in every other Smash but I've heard he really has nothing going for him in his game. I'd love to be a hyper aggressive Fox or Falco but I simply don't have enough time to dedicate solely to practicing tech skill before actually getting practice against other players.

 

[kingPiano]

I'm new to Melee. What are some characters that require minimal skill but are still viable? I've used Pikachu in every other Smash but I've heard he really has nothing going for him in his game. I'd love to be a hyper aggressive Fox or Falco but I simply don't have enough time to dedicate solely to practicing tech skill before actually getting practice against other players.

As far as least amount of inputs and tech I'd say:

JigglyPuff
Ganondorf
Game & Watch
Samus

Not really viable, but super easy and simple:

Zelda


Also Ice Climbers if you learn desyncs and wobbles (doesn't take long initially) you can go VERY far, and take out players much more skilled than you. A fairly cheap character at a low to mid level, but difficult to win with at the highest level even with these gimmicks.

 

[Eonn]

As far as least amount of inputs and tech I'd say:

JigglyPuff
Ganondorf
Game & Watch
Samus

Not really viable, but super easy and simple:

Zelda


Also Ice Climbers if you learn desyncs and wobbles (doesn't take long initially) you can go VERY far, and take out players much more skilled than you. A fairly cheap character at a low to mid level, but difficult to win with at the highest level even with these gimmicks.

Alright, thanks. I've heard Sheik, Marth, and Pikachu don't require too much tech as well? I can SHFFL with characters that have easy short hops, I was trying Fox earlier and it was difficult to short hop and also hard to time to l cancels because of his fast falling speed.

 

[kingPiano]

Alright, thanks. I've heard Sheik, Marth, and Pikachu don't require too much tech as well? I can SHFFL with characters that have easy short hops, I was trying Fox earlier and it was difficult to short hop and also hard to time to l cancels because of his fast falling speed.

Yes those 3 as well, but they require speed, dexterity, and tech. Sheik you have to really know the hitboxes and spacing she has a lot of tech though and she also has a 2 frame SH like Fox. Marth you have to L-cancel and FF everything since all his aerials have small hitbox windows and he's floaty (he can be easy to kill, you need to learn his spacing well), Marth has a bad recovery too, it's easy to predict and gimp (just takes one invincible drop bair from most characters). Pikachu is easy to kill, but can recover from anywhere; mostly relies on Upsmash, Thunder, and Fsmash to kill if you aren't good with SHFFL aerials (his up-air is amazing), again he also has a 2 frame SH.

IMO Fox is easy to L-cancel with, even with the hitlag (impact lag) he falls so fast that you can press L as you FF attack and successfully cancel a majority of the time. With those other 3 characters you will have to attack > FF > press L right before landing > then input next

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Alright, thanks. I've heard Sheik, Marth, and Pikachu don't require too much tech as well? I can SHFFL with characters that have easy short hops, I was trying Fox earlier and it was difficult to short hop and also hard to time to l cancels because of his fast falling speed.

Sheik's short hop timing is the same as fox's. But between her simple edgeguarding (eg, grab edge -> bair), simple yet effective combos strings (eg, dthrow -> ftilt -> fair) and simple approach game (eg, walk ... -> ftilt or just dash attack) I would say she is the most fundamental character.

 

[tauKhan]

What's the common view on the meaning of stage bans, i.e. can you pick a stage you have banned previously on the set? I think you should be able to pick it, since that way both players have equal cp opportunities.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You may not pick a stage you banned, unless the opponent agrees with gentleman's clause. Unless the rules of a specific tournament state otherwise, your ban is permanent over the set and neither you nor your opponent can chose it.

 

[Kadano]

What's the common view on the meaning of stage bans, i.e. can you pick a stage you have banned previously on the set? I think you should be able to pick it, since that way both players have equal cp opportunities.

I agree with you that the established concept of stage bans do not give equal CP opportunities (the first loser has more freedom) and that this is a bad thing, but I don’t think making every ban affect only the opponent’s picks is the right way to go about this; doing so increases the gimmick factor (banning a stage on purpose only to pick it later on). Alternating temporary stage bans are so much better imho. They give both players more freedom and flexibility in character and stage counterpicking, but always to completely equal degrees. (See “Bones’ ruleset”.)

 

[tauKhan]

@ Fortress | Sveet Really? That's ********, it limits the winner of the first match for no reason. Edit: Yeah I know you didn't state your opinion
@ Kadano Is it just me or is your post contradictory? But yeah I think that either both players should make their bans before the 2nd match, or bans should just be limited to next match.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I am not talking about what "should be", I am simply stating the rules as they are right now.

 

[Kadano]

@ Kadano Is it just me or is your post contradictory? But yeah I think that either both players should make their bans before the 2nd match, or bans should just be limited to next match.

Yeah, it didn’t make any sense, dunno what I was thinking, haha. It’s how it should be now.

 

[tauKhan]

doing so increases the gimmick factor (banning a stage on purpose only to pick it later on). Alternating temporary stage bans are so much better imho.

Umm, the Alternating temporary stage bans for Bo3 work precisely like stage ban affecting only opponent. Obviously you should be allowed to ban the same stage your opponent did. This will allow players to try to trick the other player to ban wrong stage though, but I don't see that as a problem.

 

[Rlagkrud]

I have a question about BK and KG.
I looked at the formula, but it's too complicated for me.

Approximately at what percent does KG = BK? Let's say the character weight is 80 (approx avg) and is hit with a move that does 0% with 50 KG and 50 BK.
At percentage will the knockback effectively be 50 + 50?
Or is knockback not linear?
Thanks!

 

[Kadano]

Umm, the Alternating temporary stage bans for Bo3 work precisely like stage ban affecting only opponent. Obviously you should be allowed to ban the same stage your opponent did. This will allow players to try to trick the other player to ban wrong stage though, but I don't see that as a problem.

That’s true, but with alternating stage bans it’s very obvious that they are only temporary, so I don’t think players will falsely assume they cannot pick their stage ban.

I have a question about BK and KG.
I looked at the formula, but it's too complicated for me.

Approximately at what percent does KG = BK? Let's say the character weight is 80 (approx avg) and is hit with a move that does 0% with 50 KG and 50 BK.
At percentage will the knockback effectively be 50 + 50?
Or is knockback not linear?
Thanks!

It’s not really linear because d scales quadratic. I show this here from 0:18 on with some arrows that should give you an idea how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93Fwem-ngw

 

[Rlagkrud]

It’s not linear. I show this here from 0:18 on with some arrows that should give you an idea how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93Fwem-ngw

The graphs in the videos are all linear relationships though.

 

[Kadano]

The graphs in the videos are all linear relationships though.

I only plot from p there. Plotting from d would produce a quadratic curve.

The solution for your question is p = 527.

 

[DarkBlueSpark]

Functional mods are not allowed at Melee tournaments, correct? Like removing the springs from the L/R buttons? Only cosmetics mods are allowed, right?

 

[Bones0]

Umm, the Alternating temporary stage bans for Bo3 work precisely like stage ban affecting only opponent. Obviously you should be allowed to ban the same stage your opponent did. This will allow players to try to trick the other player to ban wrong stage though, but I don't see that as a problem.

The trickery isn't even the only problem. If I go Falco game 1 and win vs. a Fox, I'll probably ban FD. My banning FD for game 2 should obviously have no impact on whether or not I can choose FD game 3. I may simply change my mind based on how game 2's stage went, or I may want to use my Marth secondary. Unfortunately, the Apex ruleset is filled with logical inconsistencies like this. Selecting characters after stages is the other huge example that comes to mind.

Functional mods are not allowed at Melee tournaments, correct? Like removing the springs from the L/R buttons? Only cosmetics mods are allowed, right?

Removing springs, rumble, and swapping your sticks with an official Nintendo analog/C/Nunchuk stick are all widely accepted mods. Anything beyond that you should ask the TO specifically.

 

[NEXmaniosis]

Hi,

Recently a friend of mine told me that you can't DI spikes, is that true? I know that you can Smash DI, but regular directional influence?

 

[Kadano]

Hi,

Recently a friend of mine told me that you can't DI spikes, is that true? I know that you can Smash DI, but regular directional influence?

Of course you can DI them. Vertical SDI is forbidden if they connect on the ground, but that’s it.

 

[Malkasaur]

How the **** do you drop through platforms consistently? I've been playing Melee for 12 years now and I have NEVER EVER been able to drop through a platform consistently. I'll always crouch instead of dropping through :/

 

[Moy]

How the **** do you drop through platforms consistently? I've been playing Melee for 12 years now and I have NEVER EVER been able to drop through a platform consistently. I'll always crouch instead of dropping through :/

I think it's dependent on how fast you bring the control stick from a neutral position to down position. Sort of like how the game determines whether you shield drop or spotdodge from shield. Think of it like doing a smash attack.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Not all platform drops are equal, too.