Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Bounce N Back]

can anyone link me a video of wavelanding with good applications of it on the tourney stages? I play falco/marth, but idc if it's another character showcasing it. I understand what the mechanic itself is, but I wanna be able to move fluently from platform to platform.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[ShiekShallKill]

I'm suprized that this thread has been going on for 6 years O.O, but anyways. I personally think that Sheik has WAY more potential then what people think. Fox and Falco can easily be tech chased with d-throw. And yes, I know she doesn't have the best recovery (Which I think is why she's lower than the two) but still, she should be in the middle of Fox and Falco. (Fox>Sheik>Falco).

 

[Jimmology]

Could someone please give me an in depth explanation as to what is happening in this game at the time I linked. I think it's called either ledge or wall teching but I'm not sure and I really want to know how to perform it like in the situation I presented. Thanks in advanced for any help I have asked people before about this but I always get a really shallow explanation that I can't learn from. Here is the video I was speaking of: http://youtu.be/AAVSdpZ2IEk?t=3m2s

 

[Kadano]

Could someone please give me an in depth explanation as to what is happening in this game at the time I linked. I think it's called either ledge or wall teching but I'm not sure and I really want to know how to perform it like in the situation I presented. Thanks in advanced for any help I have asked people before about this but I always get a really shallow explanation that I can't learn from. Here is the video I was speaking of: http://youtu.be/AAVSdpZ2IEk?t=3m2s

That’s a wall tech. I created an in-depth explanation video for these (and other teching and DI related things): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkdPVUlrSOo

 

[Jimmology]

That’s a wall tech. I created an in-depth explanation video for these (and other teching and DI related things): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkdPVUlrSOo

cool thanks

 

[Phan7om]

Assuming Falco couldnt shine or laser, how good would pivot up tilt be, and when would it best be used?

 

[ShiekShallKill]

Assuming Falco couldnt shine or laser, how good would pivot up tilt be, and when would it best be used?

Up-Tilt is best used at higher percents, as it has no knockback at low or mid percents. But Falco would be garbage without lasers, shines, and D-Air

 

[dude it's raining]

@ dude it's raining Xeylode is right, knockback that causes tumble (>= 80, for reference sheiks fair had tumble kb vs pal fox starting 38% before hit) or being in the tumble animation is required for you to be able to tech. Hitstun doesn't matter at all actually, you can still tech if you are out of hitstun, but usually when you tech you are still in hitstun. Also when falling backwards from edge during shielding, you're put into 26 frame missfoot animation, during which you can't do anything except ff. Then after that you go into tumble if you are still in the air, and can tech or do anything else. You land normally during missfoot and get knocked down during tumble.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I think there may have been a misunderstanding (unless, of course, I'm still wrong - I just want to find the truth for the sake of the dude who asked the q).
He was asking about wall teching, and I responded without clarifying that I was talking exlusively about wall teching (when I said you have to be in hitstun, and when % shouldn't matter), which ssbwiki says is possible in tumble, reeling, or hitstun. Which is why I figured the answer to his question ("What percent does Fox have to be at before he can wall-tech?") is any percent.
I don't know if I'm right about this, but I don't feel like I understand it myself.

EDIT: just looked at the vid kadano linked, and it says right off the bat that even normal techs are tumble or hutstun.

 

[tauKhan]

@ dude it's raining Still the hitstun is not a determining factor; To tech you need kb that starts tumble when hitstun ends or you need to be in tumble, so I would just say that you need tumble. Being in hitstun isn't sufficient, and neither is it required.

 

[Kadano]

EDIT: just looked at the vid kadano linked, and it says right off the bat that even normal techs are tumble or hutstun.

In addition to that video, I mention weak (<80) and strong (>80) knockback in the knockback video. I also made an entire video about tumbling. I’m not quite sure what you are asking for here, so I’m just putting out the resources I’ve already created in case what you are looking for is in there.

 

[dude it's raining]

In addition to that video, I mention weak (<80) and strong (>80) knockback in the knockback video. I also made an entire video about tumbling. I’m not quite sure what you are asking for here, so I’m just putting out the resources I’ve already created in case what you are looking for is in there.

Thanks, hopefully I'll start to understand why I can't understand.

 

[hobbes_]

What are some good movement options with Sheik? I noticed Shroomed using her dash dance even when it's so short for example, but I don't really know what other things that she can do other than wavedash/wavelanding really..

 

[dude it's raining]

What are some good movement options with Sheik? I noticed Shroomed using her dash dance even when it's so short for example, but I don't really know what other things that she can do other than wavedash/wavelanding really..

Foxtrot
Run canceling: you can run back and forth on platforms in a sort of pseudo extension of her dash dance.
Dash canceling (with a crouch) can be used to get tilts out in weird spots.
Pivot tilts are even faster than dash canceling.
In PM, you can wavebounce a needle store for tricky stuff. You can also do the amsa climb by doing it out of a wall jump.

 

[hobbes_]

Run canceling: you can run back and forth on platforms in a sort of pseudo extension of her dash dance.
Dash canceling (with a crouch) can be used to get tilts out in weird spots.
Pivot tilts are even faster than dash canceling.
In PM, you can wavebounce a needle store for tricky stuff. You can also do the amsa climb by doing it out of a wall jump.

Sweet, thanks! And yeah it's mainly melee

 

[dude it's raining]

I was looking at the Roy article on ssbwiki, and was quite impressed (as always) with the quality of ssbwiki content (it talks about counter being strong but reliant on reads, so well put). However, there were a couple of things I wanted to edit, but I want to clarify a few things first.
1. The article says that Roy's fast falling speed contributes to his long wavedash. I've noticed that other character articles (ex, Sheik's says her high falling speed contributes to her short wavedash) also mention falling speed for contributing to wavedashes. I myself am not sure if wavedashes happen after or during jumpsquat, but even if they happen after jumpsquat, would falling speed have a significant effect on wavedash length?
2. It mentions Roy's "low-lag, fast aerials", but that is just not true, and even contradicts what it says later about his "high-lag aerials". I'm quite sure I'm right about this one.
3. A side note, can someone tell me exactly how falling speed and weight affect survivability? What difference does it make for horizontal and vertical survivability? Is it just that high falling speed helps prevent vertical KO's, and high weight reduces knockback in general, and by extension, leaves you with less hitstun?

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[idunspaek]

Does the teetering animation cancel landing lag from aerials? This has probably been tested, but would it be possible, for example, for Marth to be on a platform, double fair, land on the ledge so that you start teetering, and then grab with minimal to no lag?

 

[Bones0]

Does the teetering animation cancel landing lag from aerials? This has probably been tested, but would it be possible, for example, for Marth to be on a platform, double fair, land on the ledge so that you start teetering, and then grab with minimal to no lag?

It's generally considered a ledge cancel in those situations because you usually have too much momentum to stay on the platform. It's definitely possible to ledge cancel a fair and immediately grab though.

 

[dude it's raining]

It's generally considered a ledge cancel in those situations because you usually have too much momentum to stay on the platform. It's definitely possible to ledge cancel a fair and immediately grab though.

Are there different kinds of ledge cancels? I'm not at all sure what exactly causes ledge cancels. Sometimes I wonder if it's the teeter animation, or sometimes if it's just that you cancel the landing animation by no longer being landed. But neither of those would explain Sheik edge canceling her UpB while recovering.

 

[tauKhan]

@ I idunspaek Yeah you could double fair teeter cancel grab, but I think the opponent would have to be at low% for the grab to hit. If you are at the ledge, you can also go for fair teeter cancel fsmash.

It's generally considered a ledge cancel in those situations because you usually have too much momentum to stay on the platform. It's definitely possible to ledge cancel a fair and immediately grab though.

No, if you face the edge, you teeter cancels if you don't hold forward, and you edge cancel if you do hold forward. I'm pretty sure the amount of velocity doesn't matter at all, since even strong kb won't make you fall over the edge in the teetering animation. Tested this with falcon, and even he can teeter cancel full speed nair.

 

[Se7enSB]

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask but who is a character that requires fundamentals to win with? I'm trying to shape my fundamentals since Melee relies so heavily on them.

 

[KevJames]

Most characters require fundamentals to win before anything else. That being said, I think Marth would be the best character to improve fundamentals with as usage of wavedashing, dash-dancing, spacing, l-cancelling, and most basic techniques are used a lot in his game.

 

[Se7enSB]

Most characters require fundamentals to win before anything else. That being said, I think Marth would be the best character to improve fundamentals with as usage of wavedashing, dash-dancing, spacing, l-cancelling, and most basic techniques are used a lot in his game.

Thank you for answering. Isn't Marth weak in teams?

 

[KevJames]

Thank you for answering. Isn't Marth weak in teams?

In the current meta, Marth isn't as valued in doubles as other top tier characters. But there are some exceptions. One of the best doubles in smash history was a Marth/Falcon composition used by Ken/Isai. PewPewU/SFAT use a Marth/Fox combo that does really well. The knock on Marth is that he gets pressured very easily, and many teams will take advantage of double-teaming Marth. In high-level play, it's been shown that Marth is a very viable partner in doubles. In the end, it's about the synergy between the players.

 

[Se7enSB]

In the current meta, Marth isn't as valued in doubles as other top tier characters. But there are some exceptions. One of the best doubles in smash history was a Marth/Falcon composition used by Ken/Isai. PewPewU/SFAT use a Marth/Fox combo that does really well. The knock on Marth is that he gets pressured very easily, and many teams will take advantage of double-teaming Marth. In high-level play, it's been shown that Marth is a very viable partner in doubles. In the end, it's about the synergy between the players.

So Marth is a fundamental character in teams as well, unless I'm mistaken. Please define every key fundamental as well if you don't mind.

 

[dude it's raining]

So Marth is a fundamental character in teams as well, unless I'm mistaken. Please define every key fundamental as well if you don't mind.

lol, I've been having an existential crisis with the definition of 'fundamantals'. Ppl are like "it's this" and "it's that", and I start thinking too much about it.
A lot of ppl have said it's just knowing and being good at every little thing. Like, having good fundamentals is when you can do all of the Adv How To Play video techniques 99% of the time.
And like, it's different from tech skill b/c it's not about just doing them, it's when you have mastered them so well that they are options for you to choose from, and you can make educated decisions about their use.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Hey everybody!

I've been around here for a while but only just decided to create an account basically because I have a bunch of random questions (sorry in advance for the long post).

1) How good are the GameCube controllers that Nintendo re-released recently? I ask because I got one when they came out and I'm already having problems dashing with it. Also is there any way to fix this? (I'm a jobless college student and would like to not spend more money on this than I have already)

2) I saw a TAS video where Fox performed ~5 platform cancelled (and possibly edge cancelled?) bairs in a row and racked up 60 damage in about two seconds. I'm assuming this only works because the opposing Fox is DI'ing in and thus this would never work even on a human if it could be done right?

3) I am a Falco main and I was picking up Fox around two months ago more or less just for fun. I was making surprisingly quick progress with my control of the character and then I downloaded Project M and since playing PM Fox my Melee Fox has gotten much worse. Should I bother trying to correct this? I don't really need Fox for matchups I just think he is fun to play, plus I like to have a variety of characters I can play from time to time so I don't get bored with the game.

4) I don't have room for a CRT in my dorm so when I'm in my room I have to play on a flat screen. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be too much lag, but for some reason I feel like it varies from day to day, like most days everything feels smooth but on others I feel like my actions do not match my inputs. Is this just me being inconsistent or is something up?

5) Are there any performance/gameplay differences between 20XX Hack Pack and regular Melee? I ask because my roomy always complains when we play the Hack Pack and I'm tired of hearing his whining.

6) Most importantly, I feel like I have hit a plateau in my skill. I started seriously playing Melee sometime over the summer and was able to measure my progress through learning AT's and character control. Then I went to college (I go to Uconn if anyone cares) and was able to see my skill developing by playing a bunch of people for a period of time. For example, my roommate plays Falcon and used to hit me with random knees all the time and I had trouble surviving but now I pretty much never get hit like that. However, I seem to have reached a point where I am either not getting better or I can't notice it. Sometimes I try to slow down in a match and think really hard about how I can play better, and although it doesn't cause me to lose it doesn't really help at all and my Falco does better exerting pressure anyway. So, is there any way for me to get better/ measure improvement? Unfortunately due to being super busy at school I probably won't get to travel to many tournaments outside of the ones we have on campus until summer time, so for the moment that is pretty much out of the question. I also already watch a lot of high level play and try to incorporate it into my game, but maybe I don't do that enough? I'm not sure.

Thanks to anyone who can help me!

 

[Se7enSB]

lol, I've been having an existential crisis with the definition of 'fundamantals'. Ppl are like "it's this" and "it's that", and I start thinking too much about it.
A lot of ppl have said it's just knowing and being good at every little thing. Like, having good fundamentals is when you can do all of the Adv How To Play video techniques 99% of the time.
And like, it's different from tech skill b/c it's not about just doing them, it's when you have mastered them so well that they are options for you to choose from, and you can make educated decisions about their use.

In that case, I need to main Falco. Thanks again.

 

[dude it's raining]

Hey everybody!

I've been around here for a while but only just decided to create an account basically because I have a bunch of random questions (sorry in advance for the long post).

1) How good are the GameCube controllers that Nintendo re-released recently? I ask because I got one when they came out and I'm already having problems dashing with it. Also is there any way to fix this? (I'm a jobless college student and would like to not spend more money on this than I have already)

2) I saw a TAS video where Fox performed ~5 platform cancelled (and possibly edge cancelled?) bairs in a row and racked up 60 damage in about two seconds. I'm assuming this only works because the opposing Fox is DI'ing in and thus this would never work even on a human if it could be done right?

3) I am a Falco main and I was picking up Fox around two months ago more or less just for fun. I was making surprisingly quick progress with my control of the character and then I downloaded Project M and since playing PM Fox my Melee Fox has gotten much worse. Should I bother trying to correct this? I don't really need Fox for matchups I just think he is fun to play, plus I like to have a variety of characters I can play from time to time so I don't get bored with the game.

4) I don't have room for a CRT in my dorm so when I'm in my room I have to play on a flat screen. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be too much lag, but for some reason I feel like it varies from day to day, like most days everything feels smooth but on others I feel like my actions do not match my inputs. Is this just me being inconsistent or is something up?

5) Are there any performance/gameplay differences between 20XX Hack Pack and regular Melee? I ask because my roomy always complains when we play the Hack Pack and I'm tired of hearing his whining.

6) Most importantly, I feel like I have hit a plateau in my skill. I started seriously playing Melee sometime over the summer and was able to measure my progress through learning AT's and character control. Then I went to college (I go to Uconn if anyone cares) and was able to see my skill developing by playing a bunch of people for a period of time. For example, my roommate plays Falcon and used to hit me with random knees all the time and I had trouble surviving but now I pretty much never get hit like that. However, I seem to have reached a point where I am either not getting better or I can't notice it. Sometimes I try to slow down in a match and think really hard about how I can play better, and although it doesn't cause me to lose it doesn't really help at all and my Falco does better exerting pressure anyway. So, is there any way for me to get better/ measure improvement? Unfortunately due to being super busy at school I probably won't get to travel to many tournaments outside of the ones we have on campus until summer time, so for the moment that is pretty much out of the question. I also already watch a lot of high level play and try to incorporate it into my game, but maybe I don't do that enough? I'm not sure.

Thanks to anyone who can help me!

I probly don't have much more experience than you, but I think I can answer most of your questions. A lot of stuff I know is from reading what Kadano has written.
1. I've found really good and really bad controllers from the new batch. My friend switched out my right trigger with another white controller's coz I wore mine out. I think Kadano has a thread about technical stuff like that.
2. I dunno about the answer to your question, but I can tell you about platform cancels. They happen b/c of hitlag. Normally, the game won't update your Environmental Collision Box (ECB) for like 10 frames, preventing the game from recognizing that you should be platform canceling. Hitlag delays the time you spend above the platform so the game can catch up. Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/how-...t-your-ledgedash-timing.346128/#post-16526577.
3. PM has a 1 frame input buffer that they haven't been able to get rid of (yet - I'm optimistic about the future). In PM, it is generally understood that tech skill is free. This is one of the big reasons I don't use my melee main in PM. I haven't actually gotten around to reading this article, but this looks like it's relevant: http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2wtr7l/what_exactly_is_the_1_frame_physics_delay/.
4. If you're at all interested in being a competitive smasher, I highly suggest you don't ever play with lag (unless you're just playing for fun and don't intend to gain anything competitively from the experience). I personally got a puny CRT for free at the end of a garage sale. It's great coz I can easily lug it around campus in case a tourney/fest is short on setups.
5. He shouldn't be complaining about 20xx hack pack. There is a thing called sd remix, which is a hack that changes gameplay to balance it better, but 20xx only has good stuff that complements training (skipping results, allowing l-cancel flags, etc). One important thing is that it'll load a lot slower in b/w games, but it doesn't affect gameplay as far as I know.
6. For one, most competitive sports have diminishing returns. There are a lot of things that you can do. One of the biggest is to play ppl that are better than you. Unfortunately, this doesn't help you feel like you've improved. You can also make sure you've read drastic improvement by umbreon. Watch more vids of top players. Read my guide (sorry for the advertising lol). It's ridiculously hard to get good at this game. I'm in the same boat as you with school/etc keeping me from training as much as I should like.

 

[dude it's raining]

In that case, I need to main Falco. Thanks again.

I was actually hoping somebody better than me could answer your question, but it's a really big question with an answer that probly couldn't fit in this thread...

 

[DerpyDayha]

So here's my problem:

I started playing melee competitively (or at all) in late January. After spending every hour I wasn't in school and my grandparents weren't yelling at me to turn it off playing smash, I've reached the point where I can wavedash almost 100% consistently, I l-cancel Marth's move set perfectly ther than some tricky dair timings. I can waveland all the time although it isn't frame perfect.

I know what you're thinking: DerpyDayha, you can stop showing off now. Good for you, you've made it this far after less than two months, but how is this a problem?

While I'm proud of the success I've had, I do come with a somewhat embarrassing issue I've faced.
The mother-friggin short hop. I've always had some trouble short-hopping in melee since im so used to how easy it is in sm4sh. I've gotten used to all that. And the short hop is still one of my biggest roadblocks?!

Now, to clarify, I do know how to short hop, and it's not like I've never done it. In fact I'd say more than half the times I try, it works fine. Also, it can't be all my controller, although that could be a factor. My controller was well used when I got it, so it's buttons are by no means firm, but they work. It may have to do with that. But I almost feel like Hungrybox, like my hands just can't do it. The worst time I have with this is when other inputs are done before or after. So sh out of a shield stop is very difficult, and the dash before makes it harder and then thinking about that nair I want to use 100% eliminates my chances of shing.

I apologize for how long and run-on this is, but I just needed to get it all out, and hopefully say all the information anyone would need to help me out. Appreciated!

 

[Kadano]

Now, to clarify, I do know how to short hop, and it's hot like I've never done it.

I chuckled at that typo. In fact I often tell players that have difficulty with short hopping to imagine that their Y button is really hot, like a stove, so they can only get away with pressing it for a very short amount of time only.
Some find it easier by only slightly pressing at the very edge of the button and quickly slipping downwards from that.

Chances are you will be fine after some more months of practice. Most people who can now short hop easily found it rather hard at the beginning.

 

[Kerpy Derp]

So I own every smash game... Except project m I have the SD card and have downloaded it 3 times ( separately ) what version do u recommend right now I use the WiFi safe set but I don't think that was the right version help

 

[dude it's raining]

So I own every smash game... Except project m I have the SD card and have downloaded it 3 times ( separately ) what version do u recommend right now I use the WiFi safe set but I don't think that was the right version help

I never played brawl, but from what I've heard of online play, it wasn't very good. I'm not sure if it's still even supported. But if you want to be able to do that, then go with that option. There are several drawbacks listed on the PM website though, and for me it's worth it to not use the wifi safe version b/c of the gameplay drawbacks. The PM website says that you should only use the WiFI safe set if you want WiFI/replays. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

Are you having a problem getting Project M to work? If you use the hackless version (which I use just cause it's simpler for me since I don't own my own wii), you have to quickly start up brawl and go to the custom stages. You must make sure that all custom stages are deleted before trying this.
I know ppl who have the hard modded version, but I don't know how that works. My friend only plays Project M, and he just uses hackless. But another friend of mine plays all smash games, and he has the full hack, but I don't know anything about the full hack.
Also, make sure you have the right size SD card. It must be a 2 gb one or less.

Yeah, I always use the Hackless Wii ZIP (Full Set).

 

[SSS]

What's the best way to mash out of grabs? What is the game looking for, exactly? Is it just 1 input per frame, or is it more than that? Does the game read analog stick and c-stick movements as inputs during mashing? Is there a formula for how many pummels should be possible against a frame-perfect mash? It obviously depends on which character is grabbing, due to pummel speed.

 

[Kerpy Derp]

Thanks I will do that

 

[Kadano]

What's the best way to mash out of grabs? What is the game looking for, exactly? Is it just 1 input per frame, or is it more than that? Does the game read analog stick and c-stick movements as inputs during mashing? Is there a formula for how many pummels should be possible against a frame-perfect mash? It obviously depends on which character is grabbing, due to pummel speed.

http://smashboards.com/posts/9410671

 

[SSS]

http://smashboards.com/posts/9410671

I don't actually think you and Magus exist I think you're both just advanced AI designed to perfect Melee.

 

[AlphaQHard]

Trying to practice ledge teching. What's the best move for my friend who doesn't play smash to try and ht me with? Game and watch down tilt.

I tried using the sensor grenade ledge tech but i couldnt do it.