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Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
Trying to practice ledge teching. What's the best move for my friend who doesn't play smash to try and ht me with? Game and watch down tilt.
Marth’s forward smash or Falco’s down smash. Once you got the hang of that, also practice Marth’s counter as that has different timing (you need to do the SDI input later because of the pseudo-hitlag).

For the precise inputs for the former, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkdPVUlrSOo&t=5m40s
Slow the video down to lower speed, otherwise it’s hard to tell what buttons the Fox is pressing.
 

Galaxian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
400
Location
Pickering, Ontario
NNID
Galax1an
How the **** do you play Melee? I mean that.

No matter how much I play, I forget every goddamn time to do wavedashing and l cancelling and I'm just slowluy moving across the stage spamming dash attacks. I can't get used to these controls. I WANT to play Melee. But I just can't. I know what the pros do, I go to my weeklies, how the **** do I play this game?

I am salty as **** about this. I'd like to win once.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
How the **** do you play Melee? I mean that.

No matter how much I play, I forget every goddamn time to do wavedashing and l cancelling and I'm just slowluy moving across the stage spamming dash attacks. I can't get used to these controls. I WANT to play Melee. But I just can't. I know what the pros do, I go to my weeklies, how the **** do I play this game?

I am salty as **** about this. I'd like to win once.
You need to grind out techskill until it's all instinctive and pure muscle memory. The sooner you can put all of your focus on trying to read the opponent, mixing up recoveries, pressuring, and the dozens of other things going on instead of tech skill, the better off you'll be.

Also, I would give this thread a read: http://smashboards.com/threads/drastic-improvement.311129/

Detatching your emotions from the game is very important because getting mad or frustrated causes you to make dumb decisions and getting cocky causes you to possible get overconfident and could lose you the game.
 

Galaxian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
400
Location
Pickering, Ontario
NNID
Galax1an
You need to grind out techskill until it's all instinctive and pure muscle memory. The sooner you can put all of your focus on trying to read the opponent, mixing up recoveries, pressuring, and the dozens of other things going on instead of tech skill, the better off you'll be.

Also, I would give this thread a read: http://smashboards.com/threads/drastic-improvement.311129/

Detatching your emotions from the game is very important because getting mad or frustrated causes you to make dumb decisions and getting cocky causes you to possible get overconfident and could lose you the game.
I am trying to grind out techs and ****. I forget to do them in match or I just don't time them right and I look like a ****ing CPU.

**** man, getting 2-0'd every match I play just ain't fun.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
I am trying to grind out techs and ****. I forget to do them in match or I just don't time them right and I look like a ****ing CPU.

**** man, getting 2-0'd every match I play just ain't fun.
I know it's difficult, but if you practice implementing your tech in friendlies, you'll get much better using it in-bracket. I had the hardest time knowing when to WD or DD at the right time, but over time, I learned when to use a certain tech and when not to use a certain tech. Staying after you get eliminated from the bracket or coming before the bracket starts is as important (if not more important) than actually entering bracket. Tech skill doesn't do much good if you don't figure out how to use it, and that's just forcing yourself to look for opportunities where it could work to your advantage and exploiting them (preferably outside of bracket so that you don't mess yourself up in tournament.)

Also, I know that getting 2-0'd every match isn't fun, but if you learn from your mistakes and strive to eliminate them, you'll have made yourself a better player and more likely to win a game.

P.S. Sorry for taking a while to reply. I was eating lunch.
 
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dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
I am trying to grind out techs and ****. I forget to do them in match or I just don't time them right and I look like a ****ing CPU.

**** man, getting 2-0'd every match I play just ain't fun.
Melee is really hard, it's like a sport like basketball or something. It takes blood/sweat/tears to get good.
And I know what you mean about tourney matches not being fun when you lose all the time. I get seeded low every time, then play ppl I can't beat in friendlies and feel like I wasted my money. But it's part of what you have to put into being good at this game. I really enjoyed my last tourney which had pools. Even though I didn't make it out, I played 4-5 times more tourney matches than I usually get to play.
In drastic improvement, he talks about how you have to want it more than anyone else in the room. That's what I'm working on right now. I also suggest this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ORsjXzq-w.
 

Galaxian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
400
Location
Pickering, Ontario
NNID
Galax1an
Also, I know that getting 2-0'd every match isn't fun, but if you learn from your mistakes and strive to eliminate them, you'll have made yourself a better player and more likely to win a game.
That's the thing. I know my mistakes. I'm too slow, I barely use shines or whatever else, I don't use any techs. I don't know how to improve on these things.

In the heat of battle I forget all about l-cancelling and wavedashing and I play like I'm playing Smash 4. I know I'm not, but I do anyway. I don't find fun to be ****ed sideways by everyone at a weekly and get salty. When I'm salty I just want to win. I don't focus on learning.

Good grief.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
That's the thing. I know my mistakes. I'm too slow, I barely use shines or whatever else, I don't use any techs. I don't know how to improve on these things.

In the heat of battle I forget all about l-cancelling and wavedashing and I play like I'm playing Smash 4. I know I'm not, but I do anyway. I don't find fun to be ****ed sideways by everyone at a weekly and get salty. When I'm salty I just want to win. I don't focus on learning.
Hmmm... I don't know what to recommend. I've only played >10 hours of Sm4sh and started out with Melee, so I can't really recommend a good way of changing between games seamlessly. I do know that while WD takes knowledge of when to apply it, L-Cancelling doesn't (you would just need to do it within 6 frames of landing) and it comes as muscle memory if you do it frequently enough. If you are practicing Melee independently of the weeklies and practicing your tech skill (WD movement, WL on platforms, L-Cancelling, DD, etc.) and have been for a decently long time (frequently practicing for at least a couple months), you should be able to do it.

Melee is incredibly deep and MUST be practiced (independently and more importantly, with others) in order to get at least decent at the game. Don't expect it to come quickly; it takes years to start placing highly in the competitive scene (I've been playing competitively since 2013-14 and I'm still not placing that highly in my locals). Reading DI, accounting for the opponent's tenancies, and adapting all come from practicing with other people. Playing against CPUs get you into bad habits because they are programmed to always react a certain way to any certain situation. That's why playing friendlies are so important.

In addition, you need to work on not getting salty so easily. You said you don't want to learn when you get salty and just want to win, but if you don't win you get salty. That means if you don't win a game, you don't look back and try to see what you did incorrectly, meaning you'll be less likely to win the next game (since the opponent is adapting to your playstyle). After all, as competitive as Melee gets, it's still just a game and intended to be fun. I wouldn't be playing competitively if I didn't enjoy it.
 
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dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
The best way to improve is to just keep getting bopped. That is part of what it means when you're a buster.
I remember there was a long time when me and my best friend (who's way better than me) were (and still are) playing at least 2-3 hours every day. And I would get 4-stocked 30 times in a row before going to bed every night. But you learn. Now, when I get in a situation where I've SD'd twice and he's KO'd me once, and I'm about to get 4-stocked, instead of giving up and preparing for our next game, I put on my game face and push it out. If he keeps playing well, usually I can take like 2 stocks. More often than not, he'll get worn down and maybe SD twice, then I'll kill him once, then it's anyone's game.
My dad's been a running coach/personal trainer all my life, and one of things he says when you're in a race is that there's gonna be a little voice in your head that says stuff like 'you can't do this' 'it hurts, it's hard'. What you gotta do is stuff all that stuff in an imaginary box and sit on it. Then at the end of the race, you can unleash that stuff and use it for fuel. This is part of what 'no johns for life' means.
You gotta be like this: when you play someone worse than you (and hopefully win; that's my problem), it's friendly. When you play someone better than you, you learn so much - that's you're training. It's gonna be delayed gratification. As with most sports, there are diminishing returns. You will rapidly be able to beat casuals, but you're gonna make a list of ppl better than you, and tackling each one is gonna be supa hard.
Enjoy
 
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Berwyn

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
7
I had a question about grabs. Am I doing a boost grab when I dash > shield > press a? I know a boost grab is dash > press a > press z but I've always done the other way when I go for grabs especially when I practice chain grabs and tech chases. Is there such a thing as dash attack cancelled shield grab lol. It's hard for me to tell the difference between the two when I check it myself so I'm wondering if there is actually any difference or is it basically the same thing. I've just naturally always done it that way(don't know why lol) and if I don't have to change it then that works for me.
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
I had a question about grabs. Am I doing a boost grab when I dash > shield > press a? I know a boost grab is dash > press a > press z but I've always done the other way when I go for grabs especially when I practice chain grabs and tech chases. Is there such a thing as dash attack cancelled shield grab lol. It's hard for me to tell the difference between the two when I check it myself so I'm wondering if there is actually any difference or is it basically the same thing. I've just naturally always done it that way(don't know why lol) and if I don't have to change it then that works for me.
As far as I know, it is. Doing shield+a inputs a grab the same as Z, I think. There may be some obscure differences, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that you can boost grab with shield+a.
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Dont hate but... Why do people think melee is the best? I never played it (I have no gamecube)
Sakurai agrees that it is his opus. It took so much out of him that he can't replicate it. The sequels are mostly for the money. There's some nice discussion about this embedded in kadano's perfect marth class. There was also a nice article that I'll try to find for you about how melee was not an accidental success.

EDIT: http://smashfts.com/2015/02/09/melee-is-an-accident-i-disagree/
EDIT2: http://smashboards.com/threads/kada...dvanced-frame-data-application.337035/page-20
 
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random rendum

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
375
Sakurai agrees that it is his opus. It took so much out of him that he can't replicate it. The sequels are mostly for the money. There's some nice discussion about this embedded in kadano's perfect marth class. There was also a nice article that I'll try to find for you about how melee was not an accidental success.
Thanks for the answer:)
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Dont hate but... Why do people think melee is the best? I never played it (I have no gamecube)
Things such as Wavedashing (a physics exploit allowing you to slide a short distance on the stage), L-Cancelling (pressing either shoulder button within 6 frames of landing while still in an areal animation cuts the landing lag in half), SHL (Short Hop Lasering is preformed by lasering with Falco, fastfalling, and land-cancelling endlag; faster than normal lasering), Multishining, Moonwalking, and SHFFLing (Short Hop, Fastfall, L-Cancelling moves is a fast, effective way to quickly use aerials) just to name a few lend to faster, deeper, and more competitive play. This is just one example of how complex it gets; I've seen a couple more input-intensive moments than even this. Just to give a more in-depth answer in case you were interested :)
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
I have 2 questions:
1: does sheik's Uair have a sweetspot? If so, where is it (top or bottom hit box, or is it a timing-based sweetspot?)
2: I've been trying to master moonwalking for a long time, and I can do it. But I haven't been able to get that boosted jump that ppl talk about. A lot of places say it's all about how fast you move the stick, but I was wondering if you have to start from a walk like you would for characters w/out a natural moonwalk in order to do the really fancy stuff. Or do I just need to do it even faster?
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
1,615
Location
???
Does anyone else play significantly worse the longer they play through the day? And how can I avoid this? I feel the longer I play I actually get worse at the game instead of better.
 

Russy

Russydorf of Cincy
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
116
Location
Cincinnati, OH
How do I find the right character for me? I've been playing this game for a bit more than a year now and I still haven't found a character that fits me. I've been through sheik, marth, falco, and puff and I'm currently dual maining falcon and ganon (who i've used since I started). Nobody has stuck in my head and made me go "yep, that's my character", aside from ganondorf, but matchups against falco, puff, and sheik make me hate my life.

I like to be reasonably aggressive and get fast kills without having to cheese them (e.g. chaingrabbing 0-death, wobbling, falco pillaring). Can anybody help me decide who would fit me best?
 
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dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
How do I find the right character for me? I've been playing this game for a bit more than a year now and I still haven't found a character that fits me. I've been through sheik, marth, falco, and puff and I'm currently dual maining falcon and ganon (who i've used since I started). Nobody has stuck in my head and made me go "yep, that's my character", aside from ganondorf, but matchups against falco, puff, and sheik make me hate my life.

I like to be reasonably aggressive and get fast kills without having to cheese them (e.g. chaingrabbing 0-death, wobbling, falco pillaring). Can anybody help me decide who would fit me best?
I can't help you make the choice, but I'll let you know that if you want to be the very best, you'll have to someday accept the cheese coz this game doesn't get patched. To get results, you just need to pick a character and stick with it, like drastic improvement says. I didn't believe it at first and wanted to be a triple main, but I chose to play sheik even though she's "gay", and the only reason I chose her is coz she's my favorite Zelda character. Maybe someday I'll change mains, but that just makes the game deeper.
 

wiiqwertyuiop

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
25
Location
Northeastern PA
Is it a bad idea to choose a main like Fox or Falco when just starting off in Melee and is it better to choose a easier character to play if you are just beginning?
 

keninblack

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
63
Location
Summit, NJ
Any idea how to exercise your hands for stronger endurance? Left hand to be more specific.

Playing FG's for years is kind of helping, I can play casuals 4-5 hours straight without much strain. Since I started with Falco though, I can't do raw tech skill practice for not much longer then an hour before my left hand gets sore. Any tips on overcoming this, stretching or anything like that? Or just stomach through it and build the endurance manually like that?

Any help would be appreciated, i'm getting mildly annoyed at myself that I have to force myself to stop physically when I want to keep practicing everything. Not use to that coming from a traditional FG background when I can play til I just get bored and get off the stick.

Thanks.
 
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dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Any idea how to exercise your hands for stronger endurance? Left hand to be more specific.

Playing FG's for years is kind of helping, I can play casuals 4-5 hours straight without much strain. Since I started with Falco though, I can't do raw tech skill practice for not much longer then an hour before my left hand gets sore. Any tips on overcoming this, stretching or anything like that? Or just stomach through it and build the endurance manually like that?

Any help would be appreciated, i'm getting mildly annoyed at myself that I have to force myself to stop physically when I want to keep practicing everything. Not use to that coming from a traditional FG background when I can play til I just get bored and get off the stick.

Thanks.
I found a thread once written by a hand doctor or something, I'll try to find it for you.

EDIT: http://smashboards.com/threads/staying-healthy-a-guide-to-playing-melee-better-and-longer.332355/
 
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The Coach

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
35
Location
Ames, Iowa
I recently changed mains from Falco to Fox and I have noticed that now that I main Fox specific things about my Falco and other characters are off. For example I now have trouble wavedashing oos with all characters who aren't fox. Wavedashing in general is now difficult with falco. Basically, how do I tell myself fox and falco are different and tech timing that applies to one may not to the other?
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
I recently changed mains from Falco to Fox and I have noticed that now that I main Fox specific things about my Falco and other characters are off. For example I now have trouble wavedashing oos with all characters who aren't fox. Wavedashing in general is now difficult with falco. Basically, how do I tell myself fox and falco are different and tech timing that applies to one may not to the other?
As far as wavedashing goes, Fox's jumpsquat is 4 frames (which means he's airborne on the 4th frame; 3 grounded frames), while Falco's is 6 frames (meaning he's airborne on the 6th frame; 5 grounded frames). You have to wait until you're airborne before you can airdodge into the ground for a wavedash (you can input the airdodge on the frame before you get airborne b/c actions happen the frame after you input them). Sheik's jumpsquat is the same as Fox's. Fast jumpsquat is also what causes short hopping to be hard with those two, coz you have to let go of jump before jumpsquat ends in order to short hop. Peach and Puff have the same jumpsquat as Falco, but they all have it the same as DK, they're all supa slow.

You can check out a ton of info here: http://clashtournaments.com/mew2kings-melee-information-and-discoveries/

You can also use this resource: http://www.ssbwiki.com/
(the other smash wiki, supersmashbros.wikia, is pretty bad and not updated often and has misinfo, just use ssbwiki).
 
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The Coach

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
35
Location
Ames, Iowa
As far as wavedashing goes, Fox's jumpsquat is 4 frames (which means he's airborne on the 4th frame; 3 grounded frames), while Falco's is 6 frames (meaning he's airborne on the 6th frame; 5 grounded frames). You have to wait until you're airborne before you can airdodge into the ground for a wavedash (you can input the airdodge on the frame before you get airborne b/c actions happen the frame after you input them).

You can check out a ton of info here: http://clashtournaments.com/mew2kings-melee-information-and-discoveries/

You can also use this resource: http://www.ssbwiki.com/
(the other smash wiki, supersmashbros.wikia, is pretty bad and not updated often and has misinfo, just use ssbwiki).
The issue for me is more mental. In my head I'm treating them as the same character because they have similar moves.I'm trying to figure out how to get out of the mindset that their inputs are the same
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
The issue for me is more mental. In my head I'm treating them as the same character because they have similar moves.I'm trying to figure out how to get out of the mindset that their inputs are the same
Their fundamentals do have some similarities, but there are still some major differences (like neutral is so different for them; I suggest watching some of mango's match analyses of the Fox-Falco MU), so I guess you've just gotta play a lot. Sorry, I'm not a spacie main (just a frame junkie) so I can't help you there.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I heard there was some website or something posted on Reddit that allowed you to test your tech chasing reaction times to Fox's tech options. I searched around but can't find it, so if anyone knows what I'm talking about please lmk.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Yeah Ive played it before but I dont have a link. IIRC you play with the arrow keys and have to press the input within the reaction window or else you lose. Kinda interesting practice but just made me want to play the real thing XD
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Yeah Ive played it before but I dont have a link. IIRC you play with the arrow keys and have to press the input within the reaction window or else you lose. Kinda interesting practice but just made me want to play the real thing XD
Can you remember what it was called/what site it was on/who posted it?
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I cant remember anything sorry. I looked through my reddit saves cause I thought I would have saved if I came across it (and I think i saw it posted on reddit), but it wasn't there. If you cant find anything, consider making a post in /r/ssbm or /r/smashbros asking, I'm sure someone will see it.
 

Estwood

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
126
Location
Gaithersburg,Maryland
3DS FC
3609-2019-2185
I have an idea for the new 20XX tournament edition. What if the cpu's attack patterns and recovery would revolve around how you and your friends play? Seems like a lot of work but it could be really useful for training.
 

GOLF

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
22
Location
BC Canada
Slippi.gg
golf#184
What are some principles to keep in mind in the very first moment of a match?

The very beginning of a match is a pretty important part of how a battle goes, so I want to be as prepared for it as possible. What should be going through our minds at this exact point of the game?

 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
What are some principles to keep in mind in the very first moment of a match?

The very beginning of a match is a pretty important part of how a battle goes, so I want to be as prepared for it as possible. What should be going through our minds at this exact point of the game?

You should be asking yourself "why didn't I request a neutral start?"
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
I cant remember anything sorry. I looked through my reddit saves cause I thought I would have saved if I came across it (and I think i saw it posted on reddit), but it wasn't there. If you cant find anything, consider making a post in /r/ssbm or /r/smashbros asking, I'm sure someone will see it.
Was it this?

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/2wo38f/techchasetrainer_online_minigame_for_tech_chase/

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention that you should probably use Chrome to get the best results. Whenever I used it, Firefox crashed whenever it tried to bring up the messagebox for a missed tech.
 
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datyvk

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
2
I play Marth and fox and I guess this isnt too big of an issue with fox
But for marth, I seem to have trouble spacing, Most the time i end up aerialing (fair nair) right into someone's shield and getting grabbed, and when I try to fade I rarely hit them or I get cornered from constantly fading back. I guess spacing help.
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
I play Marth and fox and I guess this isnt too big of an issue with fox
But for marth, I seem to have trouble spacing, Most the time i end up aerialing (fair nair) right into someone's shield and getting grabbed, and when I try to fade I rarely hit them or I get cornered from constantly fading back. I guess spacing help.
First off, this game is hard. That pretty much answers your question.
I suggest practicing doing aerials with different combinations of timings and spacings. Experiment with how much you can influence your horizontal position before and after inputting the aerial. Try seeing the effect of instant aerials vs late aerials.

EDIT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKsEobD1pew
 
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SPAZ494

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
Messages
119
Location
Moses Lake, Washington
3DS FC
4511-0835-8425
Does Melee play well on a wii? As well as it does on GameCube? There's no lag or anything if you play it on a wii?
 
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