Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Varist]

Doc, Pikachu, Samus, Luigi, and Ganon are all fine. When people talk about your character preventing you from learning the game, they're mostly talking about super low tiers that lose to the most basic tactics (i.e. CCing vs. Roy, DD camping vs. Kirby, etc).

Also, trying to play all of the top tiers is dumb. As long as you watch videos of top tiers and get decent exp vs. players that main them, you don't really have to ever play them.

You're calling all of the top players dumb, because every single top player has played most of the top tiers.

You're assuming he is fit to decide on Doc as his one main forever. If you don't have a baseline knowledge of how all the characters play he may not even be playing the right character for him. His doc time will be wasted when he could have greater success with a different character and just be ignorant of it.

And no Bones, you can't just watch videos and expect that to do everything for you. If I watch a video or play a person who uses a character I've never really tried to use, even if they seem cool I may not like the way they move in the air, I may not like how fast or slow their jumpsquats are, I may not have the consistency for some of their tech that you need to play them, I may find them too simple, and so on.

I would need to actually play them for a while to determine whether or not they fit me.

I have never seen someone advocate watching the game over playing the game as a form of improvement when speaking to a beginner. That principle in itself is naive.

You subscribe too heavily and too ignorantly to the "just play one character or you're stopping your progress" mantra, and I know where you get that mentality from.

Restricting yourself to one character as you dip your toes into the competitive scene is a recipe for disappointment.

 

[Xyzz]

Yeah, right, because every top player bothers to learn the weirder top tiers like ICs, Peach or Puff and all their little characterspecific techs.

 

[Xyzz]

Yeah, right, because every top player bothers to learn the weirder top tiers like ICs, Peach or Puff and all their little characterspecific techs.

 

[Varist]

Yeah, right, because every top player bothers to learn the weirder top tiers like ICs, Peach or Puff and all their little characterspecific techs.

Entirely missing the point.

 

[Monkley6]

stuff.

I think you're taking it to an extreme here. I think Bones was suggesting playing one character to learn the game, not trying to discourage anyone from trying different characters to see who works for them.

Personally, I believe in a little bit of both. I'm going to try my hand at Doc, but not hesitate to dabble in other characters as well. Everyone learns a little differently too.

 

[Bones0]

You're calling all of the top players dumb, because every single top player has played most of the top tiers.

You're assuming he is fit to decide on Doc as his one main forever. If you don't have a baseline knowledge of how all the characters play he may not even be playing the right character for him. His doc time will be wasted when he could have greater success with a different character and just be ignorant of it.

And no Bones, you can't just watch videos and expect that to do everything for you. If I watch a video or play a person who uses a character I've never really tried to use, even if they seem cool I may not like the way they move in the air, I may not like how fast or slow their jumpsquats are, I may not have the consistency for some of their tech that you need to play them, I may find them too simple, and so on.

I would need to actually play them for a while to determine whether or not they fit me.

I have never seen someone advocate watching the game over playing the game as a form of improvement when speaking to a beginner. That principle in itself is naive.

You subscribe too heavily and too ignorantly to the "just play one character or you're stopping your progress" mantra, and I know where you get that mentality from.

Restricting yourself to one character as you dip your toes into the competitive scene is a recipe for disappointment.

He wasn't asking how to pick a character. He was asking how to improve at the game, which is going to be done the quickest with one main and a secondary or two. The notion that all good players used to play every character when they started out is ridiculous and not true at all. Even Mango, who is known for using multiple characters at a high level, has said that when he and Lucky played all the time, they would just play Puff vs. Fox for hours at a time.

I don't know how you claim to know where I get the mantra of "only play one character" from when I don't at all agree with that advice. I'm assuming you're talking about Umbreon's insistence that you should only pick one character, but I've always been a supporter of players experimenting with secondaries even if just for a temporary period of time because they can open you up to developing different parts of your game. I would only suggest that to someone who has a good handle on their character and the basics of the game already though. I would never tell someone who can't SHFFL and WD fluently to try playing 5+ characters. That's ******** and no one will ever get good like that, or if they do it will take WAY longer than it should.

 

[Varist]

To improve at the game the first thing you want to do is play multiple characters. Improving at "the game" and improving at "one character" are two different things.

If you want to offer up limited perspectives of Mango's history, Puff is not the first character he ever played or even one of the earliest.

I would tell them to try playing all of the high characters. I would under no circumstances tell someone not to play everyone in the cast at least once. Not trying things is a bad way to live your life and a bad way to get good at Melee. For a decision as big as character choice, I wouldn't invest too much into playing my first choice because I accept that as an immature player that may be an immature decision.

I would turn that around on you and say it would take WAY longer than it should to get better if you invest too much in a character who just can't meet your potential because someone on the Internet told you to limit your choices.

 

[Ben Zed]

To improve at the game the first thing you want to do is play multiple characters. Improving at "the game" and improving at "one character" are two different things.

I would tell them to try playing all of the high characters. I would under no circumstances tell someone not to play everyone in the cast at least once. Not trying things is a bad way to live your life and a bad way to get good at Melee. For a decision as big as character choice, I wouldn't invest too much into playing my first choice because I accept that as an immature player that may be an immature decision.

I would turn that around on you and say it would take WAY longer than it should to get better if you invest too much in a character who just can't meet your potential because someone on the Internet told you to limit your choices.

As a someone who's very new and has a question regarding character selection, I just want to say that this is sort of the mentality that I have had as far as using a variety of characters. I don't know all to much about individual character strategies (at least not yet), but it seems obvious that the more characters that you use, the more options you have vs other match-ups as well as better match up knowledge in general. Though I wouldn't go so far as to say that you should use every high tier, just some that you like. I've already looked into three different characters already (Shiek, Marth, and ganondorf) and I think I'm just going to keep practicing all three.

To that end, I wanted to ask if it's particularly important to have a pocket fox/falco. It seems like just about everyone (from what I have seen so far) can play either one alongside their true main. And while I do think variety is important, I don't want to be spread to thin trying to cover match-ups that I may already have covered well enough, especially since I'm still trying to learn/apply basic tech skill and play-style for all three. In short, is it always best to supplement your lineup with fox or falco, or can it be/is it just a waste of time?

 

[Varist]

As a someone who's very new and has a question regarding character selection, I just want to say that this is sort of the mentality that I have had as far as using a variety of characters. I don't know all to much about individual character strategies (at least not yet), but it seems obvious that the more characters that you use, the more options you have vs other match-ups as well as better match up knowledge in general. Though I wouldn't go so far as to say that you should use every high tier, just some that you like. I've already looked into three different characters already (Shiek, Marth, and ganondorf) and I think I'm just going to keep practicing all three.

To that end, I wanted to ask if it's particularly important to have a pocket fox/falco. It seems like just about everyone (from what I have seen so far) can play either one alongside their true main. And while I do think variety is important, I don't want to be spread to thin trying to cover match-ups that I may already have covered well enough, especially since I'm still trying to learn/apply basic tech skill and play-style for all three. In short, is it always best to supplement your lineup with fox or falco, or can it be/is it just a waste of time?

It's not important to have a pocket anything, it's only important to be able to consistently win. If you want to get better it is almost always in your interest to play only one character. But the problem comes when you don't know which character to choose. Thinking you will be able to play all of them and improve at an adequate pace is erroneous, but assuming you have the maturity to choose which character is the correct one for you can also be erroneous.

Things like this can only be judged on a case-by-case basis and for your case I would recommend that you definitely try Fox and Falco.

But there is one thing that you have to do and there is no way to get around this fact: You will have to narrow down the amount of characters that you frequently play.

I see Sheik, Marth, Ganon, and soon to be Fox and Falco. At least 3 of those needs to go. You can play a maximum of two while you're improving and they should complement each other as well as possible. Let your understanding of the game increase and if you become aware of your own habits you might even abandon those two characters and pick up one of the ones you left behind. Just make sure you have a memory of what those characters were like so that if you notice things like "I really get shut down when I'm stuck in shield and I HATE shielding" then you will remember that certain characters do much better when they aren't shielding, and you can go choose a new main.

Choosing a new character is fine, just know when enough is enough, and you've spent too long trying out characters and getting your feet wet. Your progress doesn't truly start making a great climb until you find the character that's for you.

 

[Svvagcube]

I'm wondering:
Is it okay as a beginner to play on an LCD TV (with lag) for a week or so - or is it too harmful (getting used to lag etc.)?

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Lag is never okay

 

[TY Ermacio]

I don't know if this is something that happens to others, but my friendv plays mafth and sometimes after being hit he will lose his second jump. Can anyone explain this?

 

[Bones0]

I don't know if this is something that happens to others, but my friendv plays mafth and sometimes after being hit he will lose his second jump. Can anyone explain this?

He either up-Bed or jumped right before you hit him. Sometimes it's really hard to tell you jumped at all, but that's the only way to lose your jump.

 

[TY Ermacio]

He either up-Bed or jumped right before you hit him. Sometimes it's really hard to tell you jumped at all, but that's the only way to lose your jump.

thank you very much, i will be sure to get back to him. we just started playing this game seriously and it seems to be happening to him a lot. thank you again.

 

[Bones0]

thank you very much, i will be sure to get back to him. we just started playing this game seriously and it seems to be happening to him a lot. thank you again.

If it's happening to him a lot, he might be tap jumping right before he gets hit because he is trying to DI your attack upwards. DIing up is usually the best direction to hold for most KO moves, but if you do it a tad early you end up losing your jump.

 

[Varist]

If it's happening to him a lot, he might be tap jumping right before he gets hit because he is trying to DI your attack upwards. DIing up is usually the best direction to hold for most KO moves, but if you do it a tad early you end up losing your jump.

Wow, I forgot holding up for jump even existed because Y button only and all that. Usually I'm very conscious about when I lose my jump but the few times I've been frustrated because there was no way I was mashing Y this was definitely what had happened.

Definitely important information

 

[rpotts]

Don't forget it's also possible he lost his jump before the final hit, like he tried to mash out of upthrow -> shine or something.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Not a Melee question exactly but I'm not sure where else to ask. I'm trying to write a new guide for G&W and plan on trying to revive and update a bunch of dead threads there to get them updated for 2014. Who can I talk to for getting access to edit a thread or to get a thread stickied there?

 

[Sashimi]

How do multi-hit moves stale? ie: Does the first hit affect the damage of the second hit?

 

[Ripple]

the first hit does not stale the second.

but if you hit only the last it will stale the whole move the next time you use it.

and just FYI, Fox's up-air isn't a multihit move like the others. hitting the first only has no effect on the second hit

 

[Kadano]

How do multi-hit moves stale? ie: Does the first hit affect the damage of the second hit?

No. Staling affects the entire attack, not individual hitboxes. So as soon as you hit with one hit of your multi-hit move, the staling slot is written and not checked or written again for subsequent hits.

and just FYI, Fox's up-air isn't a multihit move like the others. hitting the first only has no effect on the second hit

I cannot confirm this. When I hit the first hit only, followed by another uair where only the second hit hit, the damage first went to 5% and then to 16%. When I did a fresh second-hit-only uair, it did 13% damage.
It seems it’s actually the opposite of what you wrote. When I hit a fresh uair where both hits connect, it deals 16% damage. So apparently hit 1 and hit 2 are treated like separate instances of the attack.

 

[Ripple]

interesting, I thought non hitbox cycling attacks weren't treated the same

 

[Bones0]

So the first hit of Fox's uair DOES stale the second hit (even within the same move)?

 

[Kadano]

So the first hit of Fox's uair DOES stale the second hit (even within the same move)?

Exactly. This doesn’t mean that avoiding the first hit would increase the knockback, though, because knockback is calculated using the post-hit damage amount. As 5 is more than 13*0.09, double hit knockback is still higher than late hit only. (Also, why did I get a quote notification even though you didn’t quote me?)

 

[Bones0]

That's weird, no idea how it might have happened.

 

["YOLO"]

Is there a compendium about controller grips, someone knows?

 

[mooki]

Is hold left or right while just falling from, let's say a jump for example, also considered DI?

 

[Ripple]

no, its considered aerial control or mobility

 

[Kadano]

Aerial drift is another term for it.

 

[rpotts]

Is hold left or right while just falling from, let's say a jump for example, also considered DI?

no, its considered aerial control or mobility

Aerial drift is another term for it.

I've also heard it called "moving"

 

[mooki]

Ok. I've heard people using the term DI for that and it didn't seem right. Thanks.

 

[Demna]

When should a Jump-canceled grab be used instead of a boost grab, and why?

 

[thundrio]

I currently use the L button for everything possible (WDing, Lcanceling, Grabbing, Shielding, teching), and feel I should start using the R button for something (like shielding at least), but I don't really want to switch because of my muscle memory. How important is it to spread the actions across both buttons, and what do people commonly use each for?

 

[Varist]

Literally zero need for you to ever touch that R button. There is no technique that requires the use of both triggers. Be glad that you chose the L button instead of the god awful R button and enjoy your left trigger master race status.

 

[Kadano]

Most players I know go R only. I’m a leftie and I never use L. I feel it impairs the level of control I have over the control stick – contracting my index muscles inevitably moves my thumb a little bit too, and for things like 353° wavedashes, a few milimeteres can make the difference between perfect execution and SD.

When I use R, I can operate my right hand in a more keyboard-like mode. The C-stick requires much less precision than the control stick.

 

[Bones0]

When should a Jump-canceled grab be used instead of a boost grab, and why?

Sheik is the only character that benefits from boost grabbing afaik. The benefit is she travels further in less time. It is primarily helpful for techchase or chasing rolls when you can target the grab location early. If you are trying to react to minute spacing such as DDing, you would essentially have to read the opponent's movement more than if you JC grab because boost grabs require a certain timing with the dash input and go a fairly long distance whereas JC grabs can be done at any distance out of a dash and come out a bit quicker.

I currently use the L button for everything possible (WDing, Lcanceling, Grabbing, Shielding, teching), and feel I should start using the R button for something (like shielding at least), but I don't really want to switch because of my muscle memory. How important is it to spread the actions across both buttons, and what do people commonly use each for?

I also used to use L for everything. I trigger tricked my R button (when you remove the spring) so I could use R for powershielding. Now I use R for powershielding, shield stopping (only because the muscle memory resembles dash-powershielding), and shai dropping (it was often difficult to shai drop with L, relase it, then repress it before I landed). If I could easily change my habit, I would start teching with R as well because it makes it easier to tell when I'm hard pressing the trigger, but L works fine so there's no real reason for me to change now.

 

[N9TMARE]

can someone direct me to a thread/video to help me learn Up+B stalling? i think thats what its called. and whatever its called when you let go of a ledge and jump to grab get back on

 

[Kadano]

can someone direct me to a thread/video to help me learn Up+B stalling? i think thats what its called. and whatever its called when you let go of a ledge and jump to grab get back on

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Ledgestall#Up-B_ledgestall

 

[Bones0]

can someone direct me to a thread/video to help me learn Up+B stalling? i think thats what its called. and whatever its called when you let go of a ledge and jump to grab get back on

I think you are describing ledge hopping (abbr. "LH"). You have to LH in a couple different ways depending on the situation, but the general idea is that you let go of the ledge by pressing away or down on the control stick, and then jump while holding towards the stage. It is easiest with characters who have a large double jump (spacies) and more difficult with characters that have a short DJ (Ganon, Marth). When you can do it well enough, you can start adding in an attack as you jump back on stage. It may seem risky and bad at first because you use your DJ, but when you get good at LHing back on stage with attacks or with a waveland (called ledgedashing), it is almost universally better than the traditional ledge options (roll, getup attack, stand, and jump).

If you are talking about getting back on the ledge, then there's no real secret to it. You just drop off the ledge and double jump to regrab it. The shorter your character's DJ is and the higher their gravity is, the faster you can regrab the ledge (meaning there is a smaller window of vulnerability). Some characters can even regrab fast enough to get full invincibility, like Ganon.

 

[Juice_]

Alright so I'm new to the smash community. I just picked up melee this year. So I have a question:

I've got wave dashing and shffling down pretty consistantly, but where do I go from here to make myself a better player?

I don't really have a "main" yet. I'm just playing different characters and exposing myself to different play styles .