Bones0
Smash Legend
You should take one of your spares and give her that one just to see her reaction. "See, now we can play together all the time!" XD
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Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!
- Thread starter DtJ Jungle
- Start date
She actually sort of wants to play after watching The Smash Brothers with me :D I feel like she will get frustrated before actually getting really good, but it'll be fun to play with her every once in a while.
Oh, yeah, I know what you mean. I've seen that too.
SAUS, if you've got even a terrible extra controller for parts, then the one with the broken R button would be an easy fix if you want to do that (perhaps for your gf, a back-up, or temporary).
john!
Smash Hero
you can actually make gifs in photoshop. i've been spending some time over the past few days making them. imageready might be easier, though... never used it.You may notice it's two images. The one on the right I did in Photoshop. The one on the left I made ages ago with Photoshop and ImageReady. I started with a 2D image and applied shape transformations on it to manually make each frame. Then I took them to ImageReady to make the gif. (I made the spinning insignia in my program an entirely different way though, thankfully lol, because the original method took forever.)
It's broken into two parts to greatly increase the quality of both. It allowed me to make the right side a PNG, so it looks way better than if it was a gif. Plus, then I could focus the gif's 256 color palette limit entirely on shades of blue, so that half too looks way better than if the whole sig was a gif.
What version? I did it a long time ago, and I think I was using version 7.0 of Photoshop. I don't remember it being able to do animations, but I'm not sure if it could. They've probably added a lot since then.
ImageReady had a lot of control over things, which I liked. And are you able to specify duration times for individual frames, modify the color palette, or tween in your version of photoshop?
ImageReady had a lot of control over things, which I liked. And are you able to specify duration times for individual frames, modify the color palette, or tween in your version of photoshop?
john!
Smash Hero
yes to all of those
i'm using cs6 but i've been animating since (i think) cs3
i'm using cs6 but i've been animating since (i think) cs3
Hey guys, I've been playing Smash for 13. However, for the first 12 years, I was not found of the competitive Smash scene until Apex 2013, with solid fundamentals, I ventured into the Brawl scene and played it competitively for a good year. Watching Melee nowadays makes me regret not choosing it as a competitive game over Brawl, so I decided to play Melee competitively (Well, P:M to be exact).
I need help regarding the mechanics and advanced techniques. I know how to wavedash, but I can't seem to able to convert it into anything; my only use for it is spacing so far. As a competitive Brawl player, where should I start in training? What steps must I take? What helps and what doesn't? Etc.
I need all the help I can get guys. From big informations to small informations, it all helps. Thanks
I need help regarding the mechanics and advanced techniques. I know how to wavedash, but I can't seem to able to convert it into anything; my only use for it is spacing so far. As a competitive Brawl player, where should I start in training? What steps must I take? What helps and what doesn't? Etc.
I need all the help I can get guys. From big informations to small informations, it all helps. Thanks
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Wavedashing is a movement option. What more could it do other than placing yourself where you want to be?
There's obviously pros and cons to it, when compared to other movement techniques... the most basic ideas for example would be that wavedashing allows for a pretty quick ledgegrab in comparison to jumping out there... or the good old wave dash back > free punish of your choice on the whiffed approach that the opponent might have done assuming you would stand in the area you were in before the WD.
Coming from brawl, you probably have a good idea about the neutral position (just keep in mind melee has harder punishes, so stuff that leads to nothing is less valuable than it would be in brawl), and need work on your combo and edgeguard game...
Actually, head on over to the character boards of the one you chose to main in melee, and ask for the things these guys think you should learn as a new Sheik (or whatever) main, and skip the things you already know from brawl.
Bones0
Smash Legend
barlw won't help you at all in terms of Melee's neutral game. If you try to just zone in the space around your opponent (especially while airborne), you're going to get destroyed. The most important thing for new players to practice is dashdancing. If you get hit or shield an attack and could have DD grabbed/dash attacked/aerialed the opponent instead, you still need to work on your DDing (spoiler alert: you will always need to work on your DDing). DDing is such a powerful tool that any mediocre player with a good DD can absolutely destroy anyone at his level in every other aspect, so it is a must learn. Other than that, you should be watching a lot of videos and practicing tech skill so you aren't missing opportunities to capitalize on the opponent's mistakes.Hey guys, I've been playing Smash for 13. However, for the first 12 years, I was not found of the competitive Smash scene until Apex 2013, with solid fundamentals, I ventured into the Brawl scene and played it competitively for a good year. Watching Melee nowadays makes me regret not choosing it as a competitive game over Brawl, so I decided to play Melee competitively (Well, P:M to be exact).
I need help regarding the mechanics and advanced techniques. I know how to wavedash, but I can't seem to able to convert it into anything; my only use for it is spacing so far. As a competitive Brawl player, where should I start in training? What steps must I take? What helps and what doesn't? Etc.
I need all the help I can get guys. From big informations to small informations, it all helps. Thanks
Protip: the best option out of a WD is quite often to start DDing
Inspiration:
Does anybody know which commonly used aerials/tilts usually beat out Sheik's Forward Air or Forward Tilt?
I'm also wondering whether or not you should always jump cancel your shield (Wavedash OOS, Nair OOS, Roll, Spot Dodge ... etc) in some way, as releasing the shield incurs 14-16 frames of lag for your character (making it vulnerable for a quarter of a second ... something I've noticed has lead me to losing quite a few number of stocks).
I'm also wondering whether or not you should always jump cancel your shield (Wavedash OOS, Nair OOS, Roll, Spot Dodge ... etc) in some way, as releasing the shield incurs 14-16 frames of lag for your character (making it vulnerable for a quarter of a second ... something I've noticed has lead me to losing quite a few number of stocks).
Xyzz
Smash Champion
In what way is rolling or spotdodging exactly related to jump canceling your shield?
But yeah, in general you really don't want to just let go off your shield, but rather do something from it that the game allows you to do directly from shield (as always: you shouldn't have a go-to option, that the other guy can start to read and punish you for).
Well, and for completeness sake: For Yoshi it can make sense to go through the animation and downsmash the other guy in the face if he did something horribly laggy (like fsmash / dash attack) on Yoshi's shield... But yeah, you don't really ever need that with other characters (although it can sometimes work, it's probably not really a good option).
But yeah, in general you really don't want to just let go off your shield, but rather do something from it that the game allows you to do directly from shield (as always: you shouldn't have a go-to option, that the other guy can start to read and punish you for).
Well, and for completeness sake: For Yoshi it can make sense to go through the animation and downsmash the other guy in the face if he did something horribly laggy (like fsmash / dash attack) on Yoshi's shield... But yeah, you don't really ever need that with other characters (although it can sometimes work, it's probably not really a good option).
Bones0
Smash Legend
Releasing your shield can be faster with characters that have slow jumps, but in general you will want to adjust your spacing a little anyway, so WD should be your goto option for those "oh ****, why am I shielding? I shouldn't be shielding!" moments.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
@otter: Usually you have to fast fall after the aerial in order to get hitboxes out before hitting the ground (there's some exceptions, e.g. you can fast fall before inputting a nair with Sheik).
(also: you shouldn't really depend on the aerial to time your fast fall. The mental connection should be about reaching the apex of your jump, and knowing that as of NOW you are enabled to fast fall (usually you want to FF right away during SHFFLs to spend as little time in the air as possible, but there are exceptions, e.g. Sheik might be delaying a little when doing a shorthop and waiting whether she catches some punishable reaction from the opponent that way))
@Ace55: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
(also: you shouldn't really depend on the aerial to time your fast fall. The mental connection should be about reaching the apex of your jump, and knowing that as of NOW you are enabled to fast fall (usually you want to FF right away during SHFFLs to spend as little time in the air as possible, but there are exceptions, e.g. Sheik might be delaying a little when doing a shorthop and waiting whether she catches some punishable reaction from the opponent that way))
@Ace55: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
Xyzz
Smash Champion
This is the sort of question that would be answered in the big thread about DI things. But well, here again in short:
DI and SDI can only be inputted via the controlstick, and completely ignore the c-stick.
ASDI can be inputted using the controlstick, but also using the c-stick. The C-stick takes priority.
So if you are holding up on the controlstick and left on the c-stick, your regular DI will straight up, and your ASDI will be straight to the left.
DI and SDI can only be inputted via the controlstick, and completely ignore the c-stick.
ASDI can be inputted using the controlstick, but also using the c-stick. The C-stick takes priority.
So if you are holding up on the controlstick and left on the c-stick, your regular DI will straight up, and your ASDI will be straight to the left.
What do people mean when they say "conversion"?
From what I've read/heard, it seems like it is something like this:
- If you are bad at it, you drop combos/miss opportunities to combo. It is like being bad at hit-confirming (knowing you hit and following up).
- If you are good at it, you don't drop combos and follow up random hits.
Is this correct?
Also wtf is DACUS? (I think that's the right abbreviation)
From what I've read/heard, it seems like it is something like this:
- If you are bad at it, you drop combos/miss opportunities to combo. It is like being bad at hit-confirming (knowing you hit and following up).
- If you are good at it, you don't drop combos and follow up random hits.
Is this correct?
Also wtf is DACUS? (I think that's the right abbreviation)
Bones0
Smash Legend
Converting is simply transitioning from one "state" to another. Any time a combo ends with a tech, you are trying to convert from the tech chase into another combo. If you mess up a punish or combo string, you didn't "convert" into the next phase. Hit confirming can definitely be one way you successfully convert. Really any continuation of a combo can be considered converting in Melee, but I think other fighters are a little more strict and only use it at the hardest points in combos. Like in MVC, a player would be comboing someone against the wall, but when he has to do a difficult input to knock them back off the ground, that would be considered a "conversion".
DACUS is Dash Attack Cancelled Upsmash. It's a barlw and P:M-specific thing. Not possible in any way, shape, or form in Melee. Simply put, you start a dash attack and immediately input an usmash after, and your character will slide across the stage. You can YouTube for examples.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Conversion simply is what you can get of the hits you manage to land in neutral position. E.g. CF hitting an up air on an opponent trying to come down from a platfrom tends to lead to nothing much but a slightly better, but mostly neutral position. If however he can sneak in a nice followup combo, that'd usually be labeled a "good conversion".
Dacus is some bawrl thing.
Dacus is some bawrl thing.
Bones0
Smash Legend
It's "barlw". Please misspell it correctly, thank you.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Using a consistent misspelling is more attention from me than that game deserves. I just hit all five keys at more or less the same time, and whatever happens to come out is fine enough.
Thanks guys! I know about the up-smash out of dash attack stuff. Played barlw for a while. I just didn't know what the abbreviation meant. I thought I googled it before and found nothing, but doing it now it's the first result lol
Kind of a random question, but against fox, is it possible to smash DI one/some of his down-air hits so that you are elevated for when he shines (so that you don't have hit stun when he shines you)? If so, could I do this with automatic smash DI?
Kind of a random question, but against fox, is it possible to smash DI one/some of his down-air hits so that you are elevated for when he shines (so that you don't have hit stun when he shines you)? If so, could I do this with automatic smash DI?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
If you want to (A)SDI on Fox's dair do it to the side so the shine will whiff entirely.
Especially if they do a lot of hits and/or start out rather far away it's possible to do so with just ASDI, but usually they will try to avoid that scenario.
At least that's what I try to do (:
Especially if they do a lot of hits and/or start out rather far away it's possible to do so with just ASDI, but usually they will try to avoid that scenario.
At least that's what I try to do (:
Cool! Thanks. Such quick replies. Got another question. This is a quote from some thread in the marth discussion forum:
Makes it annoyingly difficult to read things when this happens. It's like reading a word you don't know in a book, looking it up in the dictionary and finding out that it's not there. This must be how compilers feel when they read my derp code >.<
My code:
wihle (true){
//...
}
Compiler: "Wtf is wihle?"
What does "AC nair" mean?
Makes it annoyingly difficult to read things when this happens. It's like reading a word you don't know in a book, looking it up in the dictionary and finding out that it's not there. This must be how compilers feel when they read my derp code >.<
My code:
wihle (true){
//...
}
Compiler: "Wtf is wihle?"
Xyzz
Smash Champion
AC = auto cancel.
If you have a look at (for example) Super doodle man's frame data pages (or the threads on the character boards have the same information), you'll see that aerials have two frames specified. If you land between these, you'll go through the specified landing lag (and you can L-cancel), if you land before or after that, the move will auto-cancel, meaning you'll land with just four frames of landing lag without having to press any buttons.
If you have a look at (for example) Super doodle man's frame data pages (or the threads on the character boards have the same information), you'll see that aerials have two frames specified. If you land between these, you'll go through the specified landing lag (and you can L-cancel), if you land before or after that, the move will auto-cancel, meaning you'll land with just four frames of landing lag without having to press any buttons.
Ah that's like how link can short-hop back-air and then jump before landing (but in this case you would not jump and it would be "auto cancelled"). I think that's how peach float-cancels as well, but I could be mistaken. Thanks for your help!
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Close but no cigar. If you are able to rejump then your aerial would indeed autocancel upon landing, but the reverse isn't necessarily true (at least I think there is no example of a move that can already be interrupted but wouldn't autocancel).
Let's have a look at what the Link's frame data and hitboxes thread has to say about his dair:
Total: 89
Hit: 13-64
IASA: 80
Auto cancel: <12 65>
Landlag: 50
Lcanceled: 25
For a move to autocancel, you have to land on a frame earlier or later than what's specified.
For you to be able to rejump you have to pass the IASA (interruptable as soon as) frame.
E.g. if you land 70 frames after initializing the dair, you would already autocancel, but you wouldn't be able to rejump and do something else.
For Peach it doesn't matter on what frame you land. If you initialize an aerial during your float you will always have four frames of landing lag, no matter when during the animation of the move you end up landing.
oh also regarding IASA: There is only certain things you can do to interrupt them. Using b-moves and shield (well shielding is hard to do in the air anyways, haha) are not among them for example. Using other aerials or jumping is possible... I don't have a conclusive list of things at hand, sorry
Let's have a look at what the Link's frame data and hitboxes thread has to say about his dair:
Total: 89
Hit: 13-64
IASA: 80
Auto cancel: <12 65>
Landlag: 50
Lcanceled: 25
For a move to autocancel, you have to land on a frame earlier or later than what's specified.
For you to be able to rejump you have to pass the IASA (interruptable as soon as) frame.
E.g. if you land 70 frames after initializing the dair, you would already autocancel, but you wouldn't be able to rejump and do something else.
For Peach it doesn't matter on what frame you land. If you initialize an aerial during your float you will always have four frames of landing lag, no matter when during the animation of the move you end up landing.
oh also regarding IASA: There is only certain things you can do to interrupt them. Using b-moves and shield (well shielding is hard to do in the air anyways, haha) are not among them for example. Using other aerials or jumping is possible... I don't have a conclusive list of things at hand, sorry
Bones0
Smash Legend
You can't airdodge or grab ledges during IASA. The move has to be completely over. Hence why SH double fairing with Marth is super easy, but in order to fair WL, you have to time it a lot more strictly.
I didn't actually know that but I always practiced doublefair to do it really accurately (seeing a good half of the second fair's arc) so it didn't even occur to me that I was using IASA frames for SHDF and not fair-waveland. It makes sense in retrospect though.
-ShadowPhoenix-
Smash Bash
Not really a requirement, but I know a decent amount of people started using it after Javi came to Apex.
So.....if someone is crossing up my shield, what are my options? What is the fastest way I can turn around and grab them (in any fashion), and how many frames does it take (for characters with regular grab speed, ~7f )? Would my best option just be some OoS option that hits behind me without having to turn around ( i.e. Fox nair/bair OoS )? Im not talking about any one character in particular, im just asking in general, what is the best way to deal with crossups? Just wavedash OoS away from them to create space maybe?
The reason I ask is because doing moves that normally have more than ideal land lag are rendered "Safe" to a certain degree by simply crossing up with it, and im just curious how people deal with this.
Edit:
I understand certain characters can deal with this easier than others.....namely characters that have a fast nair/bair that hits behind them. Im still curious though if there is any universal option that can punish me. Just for arguments sake, lets say my crossup is -10 after L cancelling.
The reason I ask is because doing moves that normally have more than ideal land lag are rendered "Safe" to a certain degree by simply crossing up with it, and im just curious how people deal with this.
Edit:
I understand certain characters can deal with this easier than others.....namely characters that have a fast nair/bair that hits behind them. Im still curious though if there is any universal option that can punish me. Just for arguments sake, lets say my crossup is -10 after L cancelling.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Melee is too complicated to answer any of those questions for the whole cast in general. M2K's SSBM Statistics List has a list of all the jumpsquat values and WDs have 10 frames of landing lag. With that knowledge and access to all of the hitbox threads, you can figure out for yourself which attacks will hit soonest OoS (either by WDing for a ground move or jumping for an aerial).
^^thats a completely fair answer. I was just curious if people have enough time to grab me somehow, but after crunching the numbers, im fairly confident grabbing me isnt really feasible.
Ive got another question though. Ive heard the term "transcendent priority" thrown around a bit......particularly in regards to Zelda. Im curious what exactly this means......because supposedly Zeldas Nair (along with quite a few other moves) have this transcendent priority.....but it doesnt seem to beat out very much in practical terms. Just hoping for some clarification.
Ive got another question though. Ive heard the term "transcendent priority" thrown around a bit......particularly in regards to Zelda. Im curious what exactly this means......because supposedly Zeldas Nair (along with quite a few other moves) have this transcendent priority.....but it doesnt seem to beat out very much in practical terms. Just hoping for some clarification.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
I always thought "transcendent priority" was the term used for the kind of thing like Falco's laser, that'll just pass through every kind of hitbox out there.
I found what it means on the wiki while smashboards was down.
" Transcendent hitboxes ignore the rules of normal priority: they cannot collide with, cancel out, or be cancelled out by other hitboxes "
Essentially, as long as your moves hitbox actually touches their hurtbox, the absolute worst that will ever happen is that you will trade.
Also, I think the wiki may have some errors because it lists Zelda's Dsmash as having this priority....yet I have her Dsmash clank with things kinda often. Anyways, yeah. Sorry for asking in the first place, I couldve found it on my own. Sorry!!!
Edit: after taking a look, it also lists fox and falcos side B's....those things clank all the time D=
" Transcendent hitboxes ignore the rules of normal priority: they cannot collide with, cancel out, or be cancelled out by other hitboxes "
Essentially, as long as your moves hitbox actually touches their hurtbox, the absolute worst that will ever happen is that you will trade.
Also, I think the wiki may have some errors because it lists Zelda's Dsmash as having this priority....yet I have her Dsmash clank with things kinda often. Anyways, yeah. Sorry for asking in the first place, I couldve found it on my own. Sorry!!!
Edit: after taking a look, it also lists fox and falcos side B's....those things clank all the time D=
How does one consistently execute a backflip as opposed to simply jumping back?
I've noticed that I've been alternating from one and the other, leaving me with not as much control with Sheik when I short hop and go for my delayed SHFFL aerials. Thanks!
I've noticed that I've been alternating from one and the other, leaving me with not as much control with Sheik when I short hop and go for my delayed SHFFL aerials. Thanks!
I believe if you are holding back as you jump you will do a backflip. Jumping back is probably holding back after you already jumped. I'm not 100% if I know what you're talking about or if what I am saying is 100% true, but that's what I think is the case.
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Got a couple of my own questions:
1) Link and Samus both have grapple recoveries. There seems to be this sweetspot somewhere right around the edge where if you hit that spot with your grapple, and then activate the grapple (couldn't think of a better word) to pull yourself in right away, your character kind of teleports to the edge. Does anyone know how this actually works? I can kinda get it sometimes on demand, but it's extremely inconsistent for me.
2) Kind of broad, but how do you teach people to play the game? I don't really know where to start and I find people get obsessed the with unimportant things like:
- Extremely difficult and niche moves like moonwalking.
- Focusing too much on something I am doing that is actually not that important to my game plan like random wavedashing with captain falcon. One guy even sort of seemed to insist that there was some magic in wavelanding that made my falcon godlike (I 4-stocked his falcon every game except when I suicided) when my falcon isn't even that good, and wavelanding had barely anything to do with it.
- They have really bad habits. Like really bad. Then they die for it and say falcon is OP (I should possibly use a different character to teach people?).
- I try to tell them that DI can save them from my combos (forward throw into tipper with marth) but they pretty much look at DI as magic powers and claim to not understand it at all.
- How do I get people to stop johning? I am not really the kind of guy to make fun of people, but sometimes I think just calling "johns" on them every time may make them stop. I don't want to make them feel bad or anything though, but sometimes it's non-stop johns. Sometimes I feel like they don't respect my skill because of it lol but that's not really a problem.
- I feel like the johns create a wall for them - "There's nothing I can do about your marth's forward air." - when there are clearly many things they can do. I don't know if it is actually a wall (stopping them from improving because they believe it's impossible to beat) or if they are just frustrated.
- They want to do cool and crazy things like Ken combo, crazy knee edgeguards/combos, but then they kill themselves while missing at the same time, or gain nothing and put themselves in a terrible position. What do I do? I feel like if I let them keep trying, maybe they will learn how to do it properly/better or they'll at least realise they can't do it at a given time, but sometimes I think I should just tell them to stop jump off the edge and dying.
- What should I focus on teaching them first? I try to pound it in that short hop, fast fall, and L-cancelling are the most important things to learn first, but they want to do way more than they can. Are these the right things to teach them?
A link to a guide for 2) would be sufficient.