Important Official Custom Moveset Project

[Ansou]

In future updates, will sets be swapped based off this list or will they be completely redone like this one. A lot of sets seemed to just move around, which was really annoying to fix. Like I understand if a major one is in the back, it getting move to the front, but sometimes two of them just swapped places.

Also, I find it funny how many sets that I made to fill up the 9/10 slots ended up actually becoming sets on the project.

This version of the project was a more extreme change (we moved from 6 to 10 sets). Future updates seem to be more like slight changes for some movesets and will probably happen twice a year.

 

[HeroMystic]

Keep in mind this is specifically formatted for EVO, which will not allow any 3DS uploads due to it taking additional time. This is why all slots are filled.

 

[DavemanCozy]

All of Fox's sets look good. Glad to see all lasers included, as they all are useful.

 

[Nintendrone]

Yes, it's finally here! Thank you to AA and everyone involved for helping to shape the future of competitive Smash 4. You've all done a great community service by participating in the discussion.

@ Amazing Ampharos What is the reason for replacing two of Wario's sets with Inhaling Chomp? I'd love to know what your council sees in it that the Wario boards didn't.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Feel like Ganondorf would rather have a couple Warlock Punch sets over Warlock Thrust, though my own opinion on the matter has gone back and forth on the subject several times during the discussion, which may partially have had something to do with the outcome.(and it's changed since after the discussion had ended as well) Warlock Punch is still mostly a gimmick move best used for showboating, but I do think it's the best option in a couple MUs(and a good option in doubles). Don't think Thrust is really worth using at all, though it's not as if it really makes a difference for Ganon from a competitive standpoint.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So I'm making the sets on my Wii U as I type this (huzzah for having all customs unlocked) and it's interesting how it's possible to sort of piece together your logic in choosing the sets that you did. Luigi, for instance:

1311
1211
3311
3211
3111

That's basic iteration of all combinations of Fireball/Iceball and the 3 Missile types. 1111 is default and doesn't need an explicit set. From this I infer that Iceball is useful but not superior to Fireball and the Missiles all have a purpose.

1312
3312
3212

Down 2 is Mach Cyclone. I'm not sure exactly what synergies exist between the specials but these seem to be recovery-focused sets.

2311
3231

Bouncing Fireball and Burial Header sets for reasons.

And now a direct question to satisfy my idle curiosity: Was Samus's Turbo Missile (Side 3) ever in consideration?

Also a second question, either for AA or anyone else who may know the answer: What is the downside to ZSS's Lateral Kick custom? (Up 3) From my initial testing it seems to go just as high, moves much further horizontally, and does just as much damage. Is the knockback angle different or something?

Serial edit: Is there a reason all of Robin's Distant Nosferatu sets are paired with Gliding Elwind? That struck me as a bit odd since I thought most Robin players didn't like Gliding Elwind.

 

[Quickhero]

Can you please sticky this project now or even after March 27 arrives?

This is SO HELPFUL for anybody that wants to set-up their custom sets that have the 10 most viable sets for their console / some other TOs in the future that won't allow custom set. Even then, you can just put the first 6/8 and go from there. This list is just so beneficial and I would hate for this to go to waste!

 

[darkreyeder]

Eh, I don't see why they can't let people create their own sets and move them over. Can't they do that before the tournament even starts?

 

[hey_there]

Luigi

Burial Header is really cool -- it recovers the highest and there's some neat stuff you can do with it. It's not strictly outclassed and synergises well with iceballs and floating missile. But SJP is so dangerous and so rewarding that it's hard not to take, so almost all sets have SJP instead of BH. The bouncing fireball set is a hold over from the first iteration of the project and admittedly no one really seems to vouch for it. I don't think it's been shown to be really be superior to the other two versions in any way, but Luigi had extra slots and some player somewhere might want a bouncing fireball set for some reason, so there it is.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Eh, I don't see why they can't let people create their own sets and move them over. Can't they do that before the tournament even starts?

At a tournament the size of EVO (which this iteration is specifically tailored for)? No, they can't. They are completely disallowing all on-site set creation, so it's presets or nothing.

For smaller tournaments it's less of an issue of course and you can probably just ask the TO nicely.

 

[smashbro29]

I like it but feel like if you're going to let people throw in their own mii you shouldn't restrict what they can do with them.

 

[LipePereira]

Yo, congrats to all people involved for this amazing effort.
I wish everyone the best of luck, and success to customs!
Now, before I go sit down at my wii u to set this all up, I wanted to give a suggestion (I know it is late)

It's regarding the names of the Mii fighters
On the old version we had Small, Normal and Wide. But now, these names seem to no longer suffice, since we have a few combinations going on (quarter height and so on), so here is an idea I've been thinking about:

Since we have 9 letter spaces to use on the names, they would go as follows:

XXXX-YHZW

Where XXXX represents the moveset itself (like every other character)
- is used for separation (and look good)
Y represents the value for the height and H represents "Height"
Z represents the value for weight/width and W represents "Weight/Width"

Examples:
a mii named "2222-MHMW" represents Minimum Height and Minimum Weight
a mii named "3333-QHTW" represents Quarter Height and Top Weight

Here are my suggestions for the codes:
M - Minimum
Q - Quarter
H - Half
F - Three Quarters (I just picked F because quarters can also be fourths)
T - Top

An alternative system I tought off would use a ratio system for W and H (and ommit the letter W and H)
Examples:
a mii named "1111-1411" would represent "1/4 height" and "1/1 weight"
a mii named "2222-1201" would represent "1/2 (standard) height" and "0/1 (minimum) weight"

I think the second one allows for more options (1/2, 1/3 ... 1/8 + 0), however I think the first one is easier to understand on the fly.

Anyway, I just wanted to share how I am naming my Miis around here

 

[ZarroTsu]

Would probably be easier to just do a percent value for their size ala (set)-(height)(width)

Example, 1231-5050 or 1231-2500. Max size could just be (w/e)-9999.

When I read "MHMW" My first instict isn't 'minimum height minimum width' it's 'maximum height maximum width' which may throw more than just me off.

 

[Name Cannot be changed]

So what colors should I use on the custom sets? I asked this in the previous thread, but I'm asking again to see if it changed at all.

Also, why limit the prefix to three letters? Counting the Mii's one-letter suffix, there's enough space for 5 letters. (To be honest, I only care because my Mii's name on my 3ds fits in the 5 letter limit, but not the 3 letter limit. )

 

[W.A.C.]

For 5/6 of the characters I use, it seems like you guys did a very good job choosing which moves to represent. However, I feel Bowser Jr. and Koopalings could've been better. To be fair, picking only ten configurations for this character is a nightmare that's impossible to please everyone. All three of his side specials are very good for very different reasons and since his play style is practically defined by his kart and mechakoopas, this makes coming up with the best play style very difficult. However, I absolutely do not understand why up special 2 is paired with side special 1 instead of 2. X12X makes his recovery options lousy, while X22X makes him good at horizontal recoveries. Also, I'm very glad you changed the neutral specials. 2 is easily his worst neutral special. Projectiles like that only work well when the frame data is good and lack is minimal, which is not the case for Bowser Jr.'s neutral special. As for setups involving giant mechakoopas and side special 3, I haven't experimented with them enough to give decent feedback. I highly recommend changing 1121 and 1123 to 1221 and 1223. I see absolutely no reason why up special 2 should be paired with side special 1 over side special 2.

 

[guedes the brawler]

It looks like I have a few inquiries to address.



Your perspective here is the opposite of how we looked at it. It's not about which car goes best with which Mechakoopa. Car is the dominant option and was the starting point for each set for Bowser Jr., and from there, we looked at which specials worked better with each particular car. Side-3 has very slow movement but has armor and can lead to incredible rewards. This is better suited to Giant Mechakoopa for two reasons. One is that it further emphasizes the reward from grounding; if you do this with a Giant Mechakoopa in hand, your final combo (if you execute correctly) will do 56% damage (if you time it for the double explosion glitch, you might be able to get even more, I dunno but I do know that it's way too much damage either way). The second and bigger reason is that the main utility of default Mechakoopas is impaired by Grounding Dash. As thrown projectiles giants really are just better than defaults (easier to grab, more damage, bigger explosion radius), but defaults have a lot of application as you can use their walking forward as a spatial control tool in a way that just never works out with giants. With the default car (or drift really) you can approach behind the spatial control of a default Mechakoopa easily, but Grounding Dash is just way too slow to take any kind of advantage of the situation so, in pretty much any situation you might be using default Mechakoopas and Grounding Dash together, you'd be better served to have giants instead.

Factor in that Grounding Dash also has severe anti-synergy with Meteor Ejection, and that's why it only has one set. It's not even a quality statement about Grounding Dash (honestly all three of his car versions are awesome in different ways); it's just that 1313 is a very good set for Grounding Dash that covers the needs of the move very well. Bowser Jr. was space limited otherwise so we decided to thank our lucky stars for that and to give it just that one set that is perfect for it (3313 would have also been pretty good for Grounding Dash, but that one was a late victim of the need to get down to 10 sets).

but the fact that the big mechakoopas don't hurt while moving is what makes them bad. they can't pressure opponents to do something in the way the normal mechakoopas can, and with side-b3 being the FASTEST side-b at short-medium range (jump cancel it, please)... i think it's silly not to have a x311 set if we are going to have only ONE set with his better side b option.

 

[W.A.C.]

Considering how all of Bowser Jr.'s side specials are very good and down special 1 and 3 are good, X113, X211, X213, X311, and X313 probably should've all been on there. Again, I haven't experimented enough with side special 3 and down special to give decent feedback, but it's very apparent from the feedback given in his thread that neutral special 3, side special 2, side special 3, and down special 3 are his most well liked custom moves, with up special 2 deserving spots for its usefulness (only way he can spike enemies off stage) and down special 2 deserving one spot entirely for the matchups involving Rosalina and Villager. Neutral special 2 and up special 3 are probably his worst custom moves and are difficult to justify a spot anywhere when you only have ten spots to work with.

 

[CitrusRain]

A change list from the previous version also simply cannot be provided due to the magnitude of the changes. We in general were expanding the set counts greatly, and we cast a much wider net this time than we did before when it came to input so we made a ton of changes. A change list would likely be non-meaningful; sorry to those who adopted the project before, but it may very well be easier for you to start from scratch for this update instead of trying to figure out the massive number of changes. I do, however, promise that there will not be another update until the autumn at the absolute earliest, likely even later than that, so you can trust that you will be able to use these sets for a long time.

30/49 were completed on my system.
Daaarrrrn iiit!

I told my brother a few weeks ago to keep his customs to slots 9 and 10. Now I have to decide how to change that rule.

If anyone wants to start a project to make a tool to do quickly make changes to custom movesets on the computer via sd card, I would be happy to join such a project. If I can make my desktop connect to the router at least.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Why do none of ZSS's sets have Plasma Dash? Am I the only one that likes that move?

1211 is a set for ZSS though? Plasma Dash is clearly pretty marginal compared to the other options, but we felt it did warrant a spot and gave it one (congruent with the discussion on the ZSS board that seemed to suggest this).

This is a question from the reddit thread, *quote about Miis*

You'll have to talk to @ John12346 about the custom Miis; he handled that. I believe the reasoning is that locking those Miis will make it harder for people to subtly cheat by tweaking them, but again, he can offer much better explanation than I can.

Bit of a silly question, but you do plan to contact Mr. Wizard directly with this stuff, right? I doubt he reads Smashboards.

I'm going to hit him up on twitter about it.

Yes, it's finally here! Thank you to AA and everyone involved for helping to shape the future of competitive Smash 4. You've all done a great community service by participating in the discussion.

@ Amazing Ampharos What is the reason for replacing two of Wario's sets with Inhaling Chomp? I'd love to know what your council sees in it that the Wario boards didn't.

In the Wario discussion, Reflex who is a top Wario posted in support of Inhaling Chomp. Reflex was, of course, also on the panel and insisted that Inhaling Chomp, while worse overall than standard Chomp, was useful to include I believe mostly for its range. He also insisted that Widescrew was not useful due to the slow start-up, but we did not have other pressing needs in those two slots, you guys discussed how you liked it in your discussion, and one of the people SamuraiPanda talked to was Wafty who wanted 1122. It seemed as though we could reach a gameplay optimum for Wario and simultaneously include the sets that everyone would be likely to use with this approach.

So I'm making the sets on my Wii U as I type this (huzzah for having all customs unlocked) and it's interesting how it's possible to sort of piece together your logic in choosing the sets that you did. Luigi, for instance:

1311
1211
3311
3211
3111

That's basic iteration of all combinations of Fireball/Iceball and the 3 Missile types. 1111 is default and doesn't need an explicit set. From this I infer that Iceball is useful but not superior to Fireball and the Missiles all have a purpose.

1312
3312
3212

Down 2 is Mach Cyclone. I'm not sure exactly what synergies exist between the specials but these seem to be recovery-focused sets.

2311
3231

Bouncing Fireball and Burial Header sets for reasons.

And now a direct question to satisfy my idle curiosity: Was Samus's Turbo Missile (Side 3) ever in consideration?

Also a second question, either for AA or anyone else who may know the answer: What is the downside to ZSS's Lateral Kick custom? (Up 3) From my initial testing it seems to go just as high, moves much further horizontally, and does just as much damage. Is the knockback angle different or something?

Serial edit: Is there a reason all of Robin's Distant Nosferatu sets are paired with Gliding Elwind? That struck me as a bit odd since I thought most Robin players didn't like Gliding Elwind.

Samus's Turbo Missiles were dismissed pretty quickly in the discussion on the Samus boards. Internally we revisited that to make sure they weren't overlooking anything like niche match-up utility, and we concluded they were pretty much correct (this happened a lot where a board would conclude something, we'd investigate on our own, and we'd realize the board was right all along). It's simply the case that Relentless Missiles are a dominating option; they're one of the main reasons at a competitive level someone might want to use Samus. They set up her entire game and in every last match-up are more difficult for the opponent to resolve than both other Missile variants. Even against someone like Rosalina, you might think that the slow speed of Relentless would make them Gravitational Pull bait which is kinda true, but they force Rosalina to Gravitational Pull later and honestly the other two variants are not a threat to her at all either so giving Samus more time to move in and punish the Grav Pull is still the most utility she'll get out of side special (related, 3211 is designed as an anti-Rosa set). Samus was very space limited otherwise since honestly every one of her non-side customs is pretty useful so we were happy that Relentless Missiles made that decision so easy.

Zero Suit Samus's Lateral Kick is often suicide to use on-stage. This is true from a wide variety of stage positions and severely hampers the utility of the move. A Zero Suit Samus who cannot Boost Kick people whenever she wants is an unhappy Zero Suit Samus. It does improve her recovery and let her go really, really deep with Shooting Star Flip Kick which is pretty cool though.

The logic with Robin is that you set up for both of them in fairly similar ways and that we were a bit space limited for supporting two moves that most Robins are pretty unlikely to pick (both Gliding Elwind and Distant Nosferatu are similarly niche). I believe our Robin sets were agreed upon by the Robin boards, and Numbers was pretty confident in the quality of the work (Robin was a character he did more of the work watching than I did; you can ask him if you want elaboration beyond this).

So what colors should I use on the custom sets? I asked this in the previous thread, but I'm asking again to see if it changed at all.

Also, why limit the prefix to three letters? Counting the Mii's one-letter suffix, there's enough space for 5 letters. (To be honest, I only care because my Mii's name on my 3ds fits in the 5 letter limit, but not the 3 letter limit. )

You can set the colors however you want. It doesn't really affect players. I just cycle colors for slots (like slot 1 is default color, slot 2 is color 2, etc.). If you would prefer to do something else, you're free to do so. This project does not take a position on the cosmetic settings for characters; it is player/TO preference.

If you want a five character prefix, be my guest. 2-3 is just shorter and simpler, but this will have no gameplay effect.

For 5/6 of the characters I use, it seems like you guys did a very good job choosing which moves to represent. However, I feel Bowser Jr. and Koopalings could've been better. To be fair, picking only ten configurations for this character is a nightmare that's impossible to please everyone. All three of his side specials are very good for very different reasons and since his play style is practically defined by his kart and mechakoopas, this makes coming up with the best play style very difficult. However, I absolutely do not understand why up special 2 is paired with side special 1 instead of 2. X12X makes his recovery options lousy, while X22X makes him good at horizontal recoveries. Also, I'm very glad you changed the neutral specials. 2 is easily his worst neutral special. Projectiles like that only work well when the frame data is good and lack is minimal, which is not the case for Bowser Jr.'s neutral special. As for setups involving giant mechakoopas and side special 3, I haven't experimented with them enough to give decent feedback. I highly recommend changing 1121 and 1123 to 1221 and 1223. I see absolutely no reason why up special 2 should be paired with side special 1 over side special 2.

Indeed Bowser Jr. was a huge challenge. I do think you're somewhat overstating how much up-2 gimps his recovery; even with side-1 and up-2, he still has about average recovery options when compared to the cast as a whole. Koopa Drift got relatively minimal support from the Bowser Jr. boards which resulted in us giving it relatively few sets on a crowded character, and since up-1 is more general purpose, the limited sets it got were up-1 sets. I am admittedly less familiar with Bowser Jr. than a few of the others; Ninjalink and Thinkaman were the two who seemed to understand Jr. the best and who were mostly leaders in our internal discussion on him.

I feel as though I should explain things in more detail about how they went down with Jr. Grab your popcorn as this one will be long.

His board's discussion was fairly chaotic with a lot of "these customs are bad!!!" which is something we saw on a few boards and honestly was usually not very helpful (it in no way helps us put together sets even if it is true, and in Jr.'s case we're pretty sure it's not true). In the other cases though it was usually characters like Lucario who are easy to put together sets for; on Jr. who is hard it created the greatest possible challenge. People were not sticking up for car variants but were mostly all about Air Cannon and Giant Mechakoopas with some niche Meteor Ejection support (up-2). We did have to respect that as much as we could since we needed to respect the actual desires of the mains of every character as much as possible; this is just as much about putting in the sets people who main those characters say they will use than the sets we think are best. Jr. just made it really hard so we went through everything:

The first thing we noted is that there's really no reason to use Koopa Meteor (up-3) or Piercing Cannon (neutral-2). We went over the mechanics of all three neutral specials and I was made to feel bad about Piercing Cannon being on every set in the previous release. I'm sorry; I did my best. Either way, those two specials were out. We also concluded that, while both Clown Cannon and Air Cannon are valid choices, when in doubt Clown Cannon is mostly better and it's the least important special so when it comes time to make the hard decisions Air Cannon sets will be the ones cut. This didn't come up in earnest until the end but it was something we decided at this point.

We were aware of Impatient Mechakoopa's advantage. The super fast explosion timing means that, unconditionally, if Rosalina uses Gravitational Pull on it she'll get hit by the explosion (Ninjalink pointed out that cooking giants is also pretty good against Rosa; you just really, really don't want defaults). Likewise, if Villager pockets an Impatient Mechakoopa, he cannot pull it out without it blowing up in his hand which actually severely diminishes Villager's ability to just negate Mechas entirely. These are two generally poor match-ups for Jr. that this move addresses even though that move is otherwise pretty poor so it needs precisely one set (no more, no less). Neither are really inhibited by wind at all so we have 1XX2 that needs a set. Side-1 and up-1 are the most general purpose and probably best suited to those MUs anyway so 1112 is in.

We went into Grounding Dash a bit. We confirmed that side-3 to up-2 does not combo and thus those moves should never be used together (the hitbox from Meteor Ejection's car doesn't break opponents at reasonable percentages out of the grounded state, totally preventing a combo into the hammer). Further discussion suggested it has better synergy with Giant Mechas since it leads to more damaging combos and seriously Grounding Dash has over 30 frames of start-up which is about the same as Ike's forward smash it's way too slow to use as a chase something and pressure move so it synergizes poorly with default Mechakoopas. We had X313 in and limited side-3 to that.

At this point our sets are:

X111
X113
X121
X123
X211
X213
X221
X223
X313
1112

That is 19 sets. We saw it was only 18 since X111 can only become 3111 (1111 is default and available regardless) and 3111 was pretty requested so it had to be in. We had to cull from here. We decided that, in general, default Mechakoopa and default Clown Cannon have good synergy (they do, Clown Cannon can be used to prevent someone from picking up a Mechakoopa if you fire them with the right timing pattern) so any set remaining with XXX1 became 1XX1. We also decided that Koopa Drift was more niche than side-1 and that when we needed to give options Mechakoopa options were more important than up special options so, in the interest of space, the doubly more niche X22X options went. That put us at:

3111
X113
1121
X123
1211
X213
X313
1112

That is 12 sets; two have to go still and there's no easy choice to make. We decided that X113 was going to be pretty popular and mainstream so we needed both 1113 and 3113. We also decided that, overall, X313 was narrowly purposed enough that 1313 would probably serve it well enough (it was the easiest remaining sacrifice). Between sacrificing 3123 and 3213 it was a close, difficult decision, but we settled on leaving out 3123 so Koopa Drift and Air Cannon would be possible to use together which is a combo that makes some sense.

The sets for any character will never be 100% perfect, but we put in a ton of time doing our due diligence to give Jr. the best sets we possibly could with our knowledge and using the product of the Bowser Jr. discussion as much as we possibly could. The above represents my understanding of all discussions both on the Bowser Jr. board and internally; Thinkaman and Ninjalink know the character better than I do and are the people to talk to if there is more to ask. I apologize to anyone who feels their preferred set was left out, but this was the best we could do. Also, I am extremely, extremely reluctant to change any sets for any reason at this time other than perhaps to fix typographical errors if any exist (but we were careful; I don't think there are any); now that it is a public list, people have begun implementing it on their local consoles and it creates an unfair burden on those players and TOs to keep changing things. I would like to thank everyone for their understanding on that issue.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

Here's a diff. Note that this also highlights changes of position, not just set composition - if, say, a 1131 set changed places with a 1313 set, then those would be listed as two deletions and two additions. Also note that the 2222 and 3333 sets aren't included, so each regular character gets 2 more additions to deletions.

thanks man, this'll help a lot. I'll have to make an announcement to my locals about this update.

 

[Name Cannot be changed]

You can set the colors however you want. It doesn't really affect players. I just cycle colors for slots (like slot 1 is default color, slot 2 is color 2, etc.). If you would prefer to do something else, you're free to do so. This project does not take a position on the cosmetic settings for characters; it is player/TO preference.

This didn't occur to me at first, but Mii dittos would be a irritating if both players appeared identical. Since this project officially "does not take a position on the cosmetic settings for characters" I'm not going to expect an official standard on this, but I am personally planning on creating two copies of each Mii (one with a hat and one without a hat) to identify who is playing as which Mii in the ditto.

Also, I just came up with this while writing this post, but you could simply set the match to a team battle to give each Mii a colored border if you don't want to have two copies of each Mii

 

[Pazx]

I'd make a Mii with a different shirt colour personally, and maybe alter other cosmetic features (in game or in the mii maker).

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

This didn't occur to me at first, but Mii dittos would be a irritating if both players appeared identical. Since this project officially "does not take a position on the cosmetic settings for characters" I'm not going to expect an official standard on this, but I am personally planning on creating two copies of each Mii (one with a hat and one without a hat) to identify who is playing as which Mii in the ditto.

Also, I just came up with this while writing this post, but you could simply set the match to a team battle to give each Mii a colored border if you don't want to have two copies of each Mii

I didn't think about either of those options. Thank you for pointing those out Maybe the Mario and Waluigi caps? How often do people get confused in doubles matches on For Glory? That would be worth checking out if we decided to go with option B.

 

[Yikarur]

Lol are you serious?

- you need far more than 1 3DS for a bigger tournament

- setting this up is an enormous work

- how can you seriously think people have a 3DS, with the game, with all customs unlocked? Most people don't.


The more I think about this project the more I think this project has no future - no even farther, this Project might destroy Smash4's professionality.

To base a ruleset depending on subjective individuals putting something together is one thing. But being required to use a cheating device to get things done and to need the hardware is extremely flawed.

This whole project is not coherent. It excludes options you should've have. It excludes people that are playing differently.

It's extremely unprofessional and as much as I love what customs at to thr game, after long thinking, I'm against this project because it hurts Smash 4 as a professional and competitive game.

Just want to leave this here as well
Aaand

Unfortunately, the best solution that can be suggested for a tournament where the Wii Us are blank, the TO doesn't have a 100% 3DS, and you don't have a 3DS period, is to find someone who possesses a 3DS and request that they create and send over a set for you.


At a customs legal tournament, you are guaranteed to find people like this of course, because most people do own Smash 3DS and are going to have a reasonable degree of customs unlocked. Of course, you then run into the issue that maybe all of the 3DS systems on the tournament grounds are not 100%, and do not contain the specials for the custom set you'd like to make.

I do find this scenario to be quite unlikely, as the people who actually do own Smash 4 are going to grind to a pretty large degree to get those customs, on both Wii U and 3DS... but I do agree the scenario you presented is viable to occur as well. If all else fails, I would just say switch over to a customs banned tournament, and, as a TO, encourage your player base to help support customs tournaments in your scene by going out and trying to unlock more of them.

this sums up a lot of problems.
In germany most people don't even touch the Single Player actively and even less on 3DS because no one plays the 3DS Vwrsion any more.

This is such an unprofessional way "you will probably have someone there" yeah. Good way for what could be the standard competitiv format.

 

[John12346]

this sums up a lot of problems.
In germany most people don't even touch the Single Player actively and even less on 3DS because no one plays the 3DS Vwrsion any more.

This is such an unprofessional way "you will probably have someone there" yeah. Good way for what could be the standard competitiv format.

I mean, is there some other way at looking at this...?

I'm talking about the unbelievably unlikely scenario where the Wii Us are completely blank, the TO or someone helping out doesn't have a 100% 3DS to spare, and all of the 3DSes present are so underequipped it's infeasible to actually provide sets for any of the players who do not have a 3DS available to them. If you're met with this apocalyptic scenario of events, then it's easy enough to simply switch over to a no-customs ruleset instead(at the entrants' and TO's discretions of course), and hold using customs off for a week or two to allow more people to unlock more of them, if not all of them.

And if your region doesn't feel like romping through single player modes to do it, then I don't know what to say. It's not like unlocking more customs is that difficult anymore(unlocking ALL of them still does take time, admittedly, but one or two weeks is a lot of time, too), considering how simplified receiving them in Classic is. If your region really wants to get customs going, maybe you guys should try taking a more active effort to help get the ball rolling, if you know what I mean.

 

[Turtlicious]

Maybe I'm missing something, can't you just upload / download a 100% save onto your SD card?

 

[Soul.]

Maybe I'm missing something, can't you just upload / download a 100% save onto your SD card?

That's not possible at the moment.

 

[Turtlicious]

I meant for the 3DS if you have a physical cart you can upload a bunch of cheats / saves with poewrsaves pro, then you'll have 100% everything.

e: Does it really take that much more time though? It seems weird to not do a tournament or something like that because it make take a few more minutes.

 

[Soul.]

If you're talking about PowerSaves to unlock the custom moves then yeah that's possible. It's a slightly faster process than getting the custom moves without them.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Ahh, just finished spending two hours or so creating sets and naming them properly on my Wii U version. Before I get up to stretch my back, I've got a question regarding the Mii Fighters.

I've created a couple dozen silly fighters for use at real life parties. Miis that look like Iron Man, Nicholas Cage, 8 player smash, casual matches, that sort of thing. Will they be majorly in the way of legitimate Mii fighter sets? I couldn't find any way to move the placement of sets up or down. And with a total of 30 Mii fighter sets (10 for each fighter class), I'm worried about whether I'll have to delete my lovely mii fighter collection.

 

[FSLink]

I meant for the 3DS if you have a physical cart you can upload a bunch of cheats / saves with poewrsaves pro, then you'll have 100% everything.

e: Does it really take that much more time though? It seems weird to not do a tournament or something like that because it make take a few more minutes.

You can't upload saves because it's encrypted. If I upload my 100% save, nobody else can use it but myself. The solution is for anybody in my community who wants all custom moves to either meet up with me in person to let me use my Powersaves on their cart, or to upload the custom moves from my 3DS to their Wii Us.

But yes, that's one of the better ways to do it as far as unlocking all moves on the 3DS goes.

 

[John12346]

I guess since it was requested, here are QR codes for template Miis, complete with the proper heights and weights you need for each fighter, and now they can be edited.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/sc4f82s918a71s4/Template Mii Fighters.rar

I don't use Reddit by the way, so someone should go give the news over there.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Just want to leave this here as well
Aaand




this sums up a lot of problems.
In germany most people don't even touch the Single Player actively and even less on 3DS because no one plays the 3DS Vwrsion any more.

This is such an unprofessional way "you will probably have someone there" yeah. Good way for what could be the standard competitiv format.

The thing is that you have to set up a Wii U once and it's fine. On the day of the tournament you don't necessarily need to have a 3DS at all; this is just a part of setting up a Wii U for competitive play in the first place. Once you set up a 3ds (which is admittedly slow, 2 hours is a fair estimate if you have everything unlocked), it takes approximately 13 minutes to set up each Wii U from that 3ds. Your per Wii U time to set up customs is a small fraction of the time it takes to unlock all of the characters and stages; logistically customs are not burdensome at all unless you also consider allowing unlockable stages and characters like Duck Hunt a problem.

More people with fully unlocked 3dses is obviously desirable, but even if you have a rate of about one guy per city, it's really more than enough. Let's consider the EVO scale. EVO has 64 set-ups, and each Wii U will take 13 minutes to set up. Let's give two minutes of wasted time moving between Wii Us for an even 15 minutes. If one guy with one 3ds wanted to set up all of EVO by himself, we'd expect it to take him 16 hours. If I were doing it by myself, I could comfortably set up all of the EVO set-ups within a week in my free time (if I had physical access; too bad for me they aren't stored in Missouri). Having a second fully unlocked 3ds would let a friend help me out and cut our total time in half (with two 3dses with all customs unlocked, two people could set up all of EVO's set-ups in a single day off). Now we consider that your local tournaments are definitely less than half of the size of EVO, and it becomes clear that one 3ds really is enough. More is even better of course, but it's a luxury. One is plenty, and it doesn't even have to be present on the day of the tournament as long as you have all of the Wii Us set up ahead of time which is a matter that merely requires basic organizational competence on the part of your local TOs and event organizers. I speak from experience being the guy with the unlocked 3ds in my scene that it's really not that hard. Up front it's burdensome, but you just pay the set-up cost and then enjoy playing a way better game from that point forward.

In practice it's essentially a guarantee that your scene, unless super tiny, will have at least one guy who has either done this or is at least willing to do this. Like most of the people local to me required substantial badgering just to get them to unlock Flat Zone X and Pac-Land so stage striking on their Wii Us wouldn't be obnoxious, but then again, I exist local to me so that's all we need for customs (and I know at least one other person has done the same in my city so even if I didn't live here they'd still be fine). The worst case scenario is that it turns out that actually 100% of your scene is lazy (like really, not even one single motivated guy) in which case you buy the cheat device. I don't really view expecting local scenes to be able to manage this unprofessional; it's pretty analogous to the fact that we generally expect that areas that want to hold tournaments will be able to procure venues, non-laggy displays, Wii Us, GC controller adapters, etc. from my perspective. I am 100% confident in the practicality of the logistics on this.

 

[Yikarur]

I think you and john think to optimistic about that.
Not every region is full of players. "One guy per city"? We don't even have more than one player per city in average.
And if no one is willing to set-up the 3DS? It's a lot of work and you need more than 1 3DS for a tournament with 20 Set-ups.
All set-ups are brought by players so you have to transfer all sets at the day of the tournament.
and do you know what you're doing at that moment? You're overwriting every sets the players have created themselves. Personally I have a lot of Single Player Sets, Broken Equipment Sets for 1on1etc. and other players have too ! If only 10% don't take their WiiU with them because they want to keep their sets we'll have a shortage at our tournament.
And the other option is holding a custom: off tournament? If Custom on becomes the standard Custom off tournaments will lack streamviewer, entrants, general interests etc.
but Regions might be forced to play without customs.

It's just disgusting to depend on external hardware to make a tournament work. An external hardware that requires a lot of work.
I really think CustomsMetagame cannot be the standard. A lot of major tournaments won't put extra time in setting this up because the organisation of a tournament itself is already enough work.

this way we will have 2 metagames, the players and TOs who wants customs by the base of the project and the player and TOs who don't want customs by the base of the project.
This will hurt the game a lot so I only see this project as some kind of cancer, destroying the game step by step.

With "unprofessional" I meant "Creating a Metagame by using an arbitrary system that only grands not even half of the options that should actually be available just for the Metagame to be playable"

As much as love customs, I don't see a consistent future for Smash 4 this way :/
and that is what we should aim for: An environment where results are comparable worldwide, because this is how the game can grow and receive attention as a competitive fighter.

 

[Tinkerer]

So for anything that isn't EVO, do we just take the last 2 or 4 movesets off as free space for people's own movesets? EVO seems to be an outlier in how customs are handled.

Especially considering EVO is singles only - optimal custom sets change for at least a few characters in doubles.

 

[Tinkerer]

It's just disgusting to depend on external hardware to make a tournament work. An external hardware that requires a lot of work.
I really think CustomsMetagame cannot be the standard. A lot of major tournaments won't put extra time in setting this up because the organisation of a tournament itself is already enough work.

You mean like CRT TVs? Yeah, they're a hassle every time.

You're throwing up a lot of vague assumptions about TOs (which we haven't really seen happening, mind you) to call this project a "cancer". All the future tense in your post speaks volumes.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I see a 2331 moveset for Rosalina, so I'm perfectly content, since that's what I'd use competitively.

Seeing as custom moves are much easier to unlock in the 3DS version than the Wii U, it shouldn't be hard to have a custom-legal tourney, especially if many people are willing to transfer moves from their 3DSs to the Wii U version. I'm sure between the majority of us, our combined transfers + whatever was unlocked on the Wii U should equate to unlocking all moves.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I see a 2331 moveset for Rosalina, so I'm perfectly content, since that's what I'd use competitively.

Seeing as custom moves are much easier to unlock in the 3DS version than the Wii U, it shouldn't be hard to have a custom-legal tourney, especially if many people are willing to transfer moves from their 3DSs to the Wii U version. I'm sure between the majority of us, our combined transfers + whatever was unlocked on the Wii U should equate to unlocking all moves.

It doesn't quite work like that. You can transfer custom sets between systems but it doesn't unlock the moves themselves and you can't edit the set at all once it's transferred.

Vaguely related idle thought: @ Amazing Ampharos , what if the Wii U actually does have all customs unlocked? Because then you could pick any one of:

• 3DS transfer
• Wii U creation (in advance)
• Ad hoc creation at need during the tourney

(Assuming all relevant Miis exist on the system.)

 

[Claire Diviner]

It doesn't quite work like that. You can transfer custom sets between systems but it doesn't unlock the moves themselves and you can't edit the set at all once it's transferred.

Okay, well that sucks. At least the viable movesets in the OP can be transferred regardless, but still...

 

[ZarroTsu]

Got the portraits and QR images working on that sheet now. Seems to be about done and ready to fold into a paper airplane and throw into the car windows of various TOs*.

*Don't take this literally.

EDIT: I have linked the sheet on Reddit. If it disappears, it's on their hands now.