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There's your contribution.~snip.~
No.so because someone disagrees with you they are wrong.....what a welcoming and friendly community.......
I didn't say he was right or wrong.so because someone disagrees with you they are wrong.....what a welcoming and friendly community.......
*raises hand*Well, it's kind of a stupid idea to come into a thread with almost six hundred pages of debate and tell everyone that they are wasting their time... if you don't agree with the thread, ignore it and go somewhere else.
No because someone who is wrong and stupid is well, wrong and stupid.so because someone disagrees with you they are wrong.....what a welcoming and friendly community.......
I stopped right there.I'm simply stating my opinion, and in a debate thats what your supposed to do blah blah blah
Your opinion isn't worth stating.I'm simply stating my opinion.
Aww, look at that!So let me get this straight, if any opinion here is posted that is not similar to your own you will just throw it out and think of it as garbage, then why should anyone post here? Humm and I thought this was a "friendly welcoming community" but apparently not, could a moderator just send all of my posts to the garbage along with these others, as far as I'm concerned I'm done with this debate, especially when there are people who won't even acknowledge another's opinion.
Or you could just delete them yourself and save a moderator the trouble.So let me get this straight, if any opinion here is posted that is not similar to your own you will just throw it out and think of it as garbage, then why should anyone post here? Humm and I thought this was a "friendly welcoming community" but apparently not, could a moderator just send all of my posts to the garbage along with these others, as far as I'm concerned I'm done with this debate, especially when there are people who won't even acknowledge another's opinion.
Aww, look at that!
He's trying to guilt-trip us, everyone!
Isn't he just the cutest little boy you ever saw?
Don't feel bad, though, honey bunny. We say the same thing to everyone who claims all the tier debaters are idiots. ^___^
Oh, I certainly acknowledge your opinion.Nope, just those who won't even acknowledge other's opinion ^__^.
well, not too bad...but then....High-tier:
Snake
G&W
D3
When I proposed, people said I was stupid, prepare yourself...Anyhow, You people are smart and have figured this out already, but I don't QUITE get it.
Let's all admit that there are more people playing MK, Snake, D3, Wario, DK and other high tiers in the important tournies than the lower-tier characters, yes?
So I guess my question is: Does the amount of entrants at a character-played ratio have anything to do with it? I mean if you have a 100 man tourny with 80 MK players... Yes, MK is going to take top, second and third, but those results are skewed just a bit are they not?
I... don't get it.Bottom-Tier (useless! Just like this list!):
Meta-Knight
There's a difference between hidden character potential and implying this game was perfectly balanced to the point that everyone could compete. Let's face the music here, not every character is made equal, some will suck. Now certainly, people can change their views if proper evvidence is brought up, but this doesn't change the fact that some characters will see little, if any use in the competitve smash scene, simply because they are not cut out for it . You will almost NEVER, see a Captain Falcon beat out a Snake in a tournament level stting where Tier lists would apply, and while certain people can use Low/Bottom Tier characters effectively, you have to know for the most part in serious competitions they used Better overall characters (Taj's real main was Sheik/Marth IIRC). Now it's obvious that you could have such a great skill advantage over another to the point where CF could win, but at the current Metagame level, this ideal just isn't possible when everyone is at or around the same area of skill. Characters with glaring weaknesses and very little strengths will get thrown to the curb, it is survival of the fittest and not a matter of fairness or not. No characters are created equal, saying otherwise is foolish. Not to mention, who is he, or anyone for that matter, to stop competitive players from researching the game and finding out Tiers and arranging them in the awaited Tier list? Do you really think ANYONE has that authority? That's nonsense. He also seems to be not only heavily ignorant of Smash's competitive scene, but is also somewhat hypocritial and contradictory when he says all the pros use Top Tier characters, then points out Taj and Gimpyfish as an example.I agree with Dik-Dik for the most part. He's not saying that tiers are totally stupid as far as I can tell. He's saying that this far into a new game, there shouldn't be tiers and you shouldn't pick your mains based from the tiers. Also, I believe he's saying that they're balanced enough so that any character can beat any other character with practice.(which is true) If a person understands his main so well that he can beat any character regardless of tier with his own skill, then tiers don't mean anything to that person. They can compete with everyone.(remember taj from melee?) Y'all need to quit flaming him b/c he's sharing his opinion in the thread where it belongs. He's trying to explain that the game will change so much in the future-from now- that the true future tiers(that shouldn't even exist anyways b/c they're so close together) are going to be totally different by the time each character's full potential is discovered, and that they're pointless right now. That's somewhat true for the most part though. The tiers that are today will change and are stepping stones basically. It's a foundry for the future tier list. Here's an example: Pikachu will never be bottom tier, but he might go back down to middle tier some day? He's not in his absolute final spot right now. In fact, if you remember back to the early days when brawl game first came out in the U.S., DK was regarded as crap. bottom tier by everyone. Look at him now-upper tier with a bunch of great tourney placings. It must have been awesome for all the people that mained DK from the beginning who stuck with him anyways, not b/c of tiers or matchups, but b/c they loved him as a character. I personally love Olimar's playstyle and I liked his pikmin games, so I stuck with him. He's high-mid, upper-low right now fyi.
As for this tier discussion, I enjoy the excitement of being a part of this. I enjoy discussing potential, thinking of the future metagame and it's role on today's lists. I enjoy reading matchup threads, learning how people think and analyze each character, learning about the stereotypical bottom tier characters and pointing out mistakes in people's analysis' of them.
If you choose your main from looking at today's tiers, you should lose at life, b/c whether you want to realize it or not, that's metaphorically the way life is. You should make decisions off of what you think is right and will benefit you later on, not what everyone else is doing or what you think is best right now. This is basically what I think DD's saying when he "invades this thread for no reason." I respect his opinion, and I commend you for taking the time to share your opinion in this hostile thread, Dik-Dik.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141725&page=44
He doesn't look at tiers, remember? He wouldn't know.I'm just loling at the fact that he thinks Game and Watch is bad.
Not to mention, he hides behind the "Well I'm entitled to my opinion" crap when he gets flustered.I'm simply stating my opinion, and in a debate thats what your supposed to do, if you don't agree with it fine, you don't need to, and I'm totally fine if you disagree with me, I'm betting 90% of the people here would, I'm simply stating my opinion and I'm pretty sure I'm entitled to that. If you disagree with me thats fine, but if your gonna throw out anyone's opinion who does not seem correct to you then why bother posting in a debate thread where there is sure to be people who find the opposite of what you think.
"Now it's obvious that you could have such a great skill advantage over another to the point where CF could win, but at the current Metagame level, this ideal just isn't possible when everyone is at or around the skill area of skill."
This^ sums up my belief on tiers in general. People can and DO have the skills to compete with the best characters-with the worst ones, and tiers do change over time. This is why tiers shouldn't be the reason you pick up a character. It's largely based on the proportion of people using one character over another, thus more people finding out new ways of playing the character, thus the character places better in tourneys partly b/c the proportion of one character over another is skewed, but also b/c the character might be a little better, but (in reality)not as much. Thus dik-dik says the tiers are closer than people think. hopefully I cleared this misconception up.
P.s. I want to help to create accurate tiers. I want to contribute to this thread, so let's not waste time clearing up that we actually DO agree with each other, but not to the extent that we agree perfectly with one another.
Edit:
He doesn't look at tiers, remember? He wouldn't know.
Neither do i man. that's why mary jane is in the top tier.I... don't get it.