Hoff
Smash Cadet
It's clearly a joke list. What's not so clear is whether the subsequent reactions are sarcasm as well. With some of the ******* on these boards I wouldn't be surprised if people took it seriously.
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
I love your explanations for the character placements. They are so ****ing hilarious!
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
@St. Viers
I don't know who would be stupid enough to believe he is serious
I don't know who would be stupid enough to believe he is serious
Grunt
Smash Master
Yuna-Maria
Smash Ace
Metalmonster is a comedic genius. 
PopeOfChiliTown
Smash Ace
Has anyone here ever played PT? Apparently not, because everyone seems to think Squirtle is better than Ivysaur and Charizard. Also, ranking PT as one character is lazy and just a way for all of you to bypass the obstacle of your own ignorance.
You all use general statements like "______'s power and speed tear _______ a new one". That's no way to argue about these things.
What specific attributes does a character have and how many, if any, counters do other characters have for it?-- These are the kinds of questions you should answer in this thread.
As for PT:
- There is nothing here to justify Squirtle's placement above his teammates. He's an incomplete character. He can rack up damage, has good grab range, and his mobility makes him elusive and he CAN stifle some opponents, but he is extremely light, depends on his two main damage dealing moves for KO's, which, coupled with stamina makes it nearly impossible to KO some people. Due to his subpar recovery, and lack of moves to do so, he also lacks the ability to gimp. His best kill move, upsmash, is not very safe often times, and the best way to get it off (sliding out of a dash dance) is completely shut down by most projectiles. He is a capable character, but he is not the best of the three.
- Ivysaur has nearly all a high tier character needs, save for a strong, fast, high priority aerial. Bair is the best pressure oriented aerial in this game, period. It controls a vast amount of space and can easily be spammed with minimum time in between strikes. Razor Leaf is a top tier projectile: large and long lasting hitbox, fast to come out, spammable, flexible trajectory, cuts through anything, and can also control much space. He has decent mobility both in the air and in the ground, which combined with his projectile, means he will not ever find himself outspammed save for when facing the campiest of Pits. He has an excellent grab range to lag ratio, surpassed only by Olimar. Auto-cancelled fairs are also good for pressure. He has what Squirtle mainly lacks in that he has a variety of dependable kill moves. Fsmash is fast, safe, and extremely strong; it is his main kill move out of shield. Vine whip is amazing and underrated, the sweetspot can kill at extremely low % and is easier to land than most people realize. Uair is ridiculously strong, fresh fairs can kill at over 100%, bthrow sets up bair or vinewhip edgeguards. Bullet seed is an amazing punish, although if predicted it is easy to DI. Ftilt ranks as one of the better spacing tools in the game, it can keep people on the edge for ages when used well in conjunction with bair, and vinewhip, trying to find a way up. His weight is decent, and the whole deal about tether recoveries was a bit overstated; yes you will occasionally get edgehogged, but it is not nearly the game breaking factor it was touted to be.
- Charizard is heavy and lives forever. He has amazing ground speed, fast tilts and jabs, ridiculous grab range. Rock smash breaks shields and deals heavy damage, while not being all that unsafe for how powerful it is. Fair and nair are good for gimping, and dair is a strong meteor that is easy to land. Up B can kill easily, out of shield or an up air combo, and has SA frames. Dtilt is fast, strong, and has IASA frames. His main weaknesses are his size, slow aerial movement due to ****ty jumps, and having no projectile. He can be stifled by projectile spam, yet that is, after all, why you have two other pokemon.
You all use general statements like "______'s power and speed tear _______ a new one". That's no way to argue about these things.
What specific attributes does a character have and how many, if any, counters do other characters have for it?-- These are the kinds of questions you should answer in this thread.
As for PT:
- There is nothing here to justify Squirtle's placement above his teammates. He's an incomplete character. He can rack up damage, has good grab range, and his mobility makes him elusive and he CAN stifle some opponents, but he is extremely light, depends on his two main damage dealing moves for KO's, which, coupled with stamina makes it nearly impossible to KO some people. Due to his subpar recovery, and lack of moves to do so, he also lacks the ability to gimp. His best kill move, upsmash, is not very safe often times, and the best way to get it off (sliding out of a dash dance) is completely shut down by most projectiles. He is a capable character, but he is not the best of the three.
- Ivysaur has nearly all a high tier character needs, save for a strong, fast, high priority aerial. Bair is the best pressure oriented aerial in this game, period. It controls a vast amount of space and can easily be spammed with minimum time in between strikes. Razor Leaf is a top tier projectile: large and long lasting hitbox, fast to come out, spammable, flexible trajectory, cuts through anything, and can also control much space. He has decent mobility both in the air and in the ground, which combined with his projectile, means he will not ever find himself outspammed save for when facing the campiest of Pits. He has an excellent grab range to lag ratio, surpassed only by Olimar. Auto-cancelled fairs are also good for pressure. He has what Squirtle mainly lacks in that he has a variety of dependable kill moves. Fsmash is fast, safe, and extremely strong; it is his main kill move out of shield. Vine whip is amazing and underrated, the sweetspot can kill at extremely low % and is easier to land than most people realize. Uair is ridiculously strong, fresh fairs can kill at over 100%, bthrow sets up bair or vinewhip edgeguards. Bullet seed is an amazing punish, although if predicted it is easy to DI. Ftilt ranks as one of the better spacing tools in the game, it can keep people on the edge for ages when used well in conjunction with bair, and vinewhip, trying to find a way up. His weight is decent, and the whole deal about tether recoveries was a bit overstated; yes you will occasionally get edgehogged, but it is not nearly the game breaking factor it was touted to be.
- Charizard is heavy and lives forever. He has amazing ground speed, fast tilts and jabs, ridiculous grab range. Rock smash breaks shields and deals heavy damage, while not being all that unsafe for how powerful it is. Fair and nair are good for gimping, and dair is a strong meteor that is easy to land. Up B can kill easily, out of shield or an up air combo, and has SA frames. Dtilt is fast, strong, and has IASA frames. His main weaknesses are his size, slow aerial movement due to ****ty jumps, and having no projectile. He can be stifled by projectile spam, yet that is, after all, why you have two other pokemon.
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
You know, I thought about that for the longest time. And you know, you're completely right. Nobody has created a meta for her just yet, so the potential is off to the side. *changes*
Anyone up for some discussion? Critiques? I'm all ears. And I swear I'll respond POLITELY. Haha.Here's my own diagnosis
TOP TIER Be prepared when you face these guys.
Snake [Still ***** all too well]
Metaknight [Slowly losing it. Will probably drop below G&W before long]
--
Game and Watch [Everyone says Bair. But don't forget D-Smash!]
HIGH They amass at tournaments. Know how to play against all of them.
ROB [He can best everyone in his own tier and make the top three cower in fear sometimes]
Marth [Still good. He's got the match-ups. Nothing more to say]
Pikachu [Can anyone NOT love the electric rodent?]
Toon Link [You know, I thought he was top tier for awhile. But I realized he really can't kill]
Falco [Hes good and all, but his gameplay is awfully predictable. That's why he's this low]
UPPER Definitely will have these guys at tourneys. But be careful of the player. He or she might very well win a tournament. Watch out.
HiUpper:
Kirby [People underrate him. Despite getting ***** by him over and over again.]
DDD [LoL Chaingrabbing. But he's got other stuff too]
Wario [Time will definitely put this underused character higher up. But it takes the player]
Ice Climbers [Love the infinites. But people ban them, despite being INSANELY hard to do.]
LoUpper: These characters have potential and may appear occasionally... so just know them
Wolf [Got some skillz, but Brawl mechanics weaken his overall potential]
Olimar [Love him. He has teh comboz, but not the recovery. The gimping really does suck.]
Pit [I can't put him any higher. In fact, his arrow game seems not as **** as first thought.]
Donkey Kong [Hello BRAWL I HAVE BIG BANANAS. Expect more from this power monkey.]
Luigi [I'm sorry. I love him, but he has more trouble killing than he should]
Zelda [Moved due to Tourney results. She's amazing, but nobody seems to utilize her. But she can still ****. HARD]
MID My favorite group.
HiMid: There might be these guys at tournaments, and they are probably played because they are loved. Which means, your opponent probably can utilize their tactics. So exploit weakneses and spam them to death. (Like catching their projectiles)
Diddy [Awesome dash attack, but really. He can't do crap.]
Fox [LoL Sorry you lost your JC.]
Zero Suit [I'd put her higher just cuz, but the Uair just doesn't do the trick enough.]
Lucario [Lagless, but pointless imo.]
Mario [Can't kill well enough. But he can do some cool ****.]
Peach [I can't see how she gets put down so much. She still can do some serious damage]
Ike [The mixed messages are clear. He doesn't suck. But he's not awesome. MIDTIER]
LoMid: I feel bad for these guys.
Lucas [Haha your Upsmash just isn't good enough]
Pokemon Trainer [LoL Stamina's a b****]
Bowser [I was hoping he could be higher...but no. The fortress is nice though.]
Ness [I'd put him lower, but I imagine he might find someone who won't CP as Marth. rofl]
Sonic [Stop hating the speedster. He has potential. You all know it. Just not priority...]
JIGGLYPUFF [I gave in to demand. Not to mention I truly <3 her. :D]
LOW Eh, unless the player is divine, the following seem to die ridiculously easy. Whether gimps or not.
Link [I want to put him higher...but he gets gimped almost easier than Olimar!]
Everyone above this vvvvv line is playable. ish. Don't get me wrong though. I main Ganon.
---------------------
GanondorfHaha haters. Bite me. lol jk.
Samus? [Zair and nair can hit, but everything sucks. She has to hope for edgeguarding]
Sheik? [Can barely pseudo-combo. She has speed, but honestly, she can't satisfy anymore.]
Yoshi? [In the same boat as Link. Could/should be higher, but get off the stage. I dair you.]
If you play the following character, you're one of two things:
1. An idiot
2. Stephen Colbert
But if you're not number two, at least pick up Yoshi. I mean comeon. This isn't Pichu. This is Pichu's waste's bacterium's waste's exoskeleton. That's how bad he is. But truly, I would love to see someone manage to **** with America. It would be so bad***.
BOTTOM Virtually unplayable.
Captain Falcon [Eat it America!]
The nice thing about Brawl is the number of different characters played at Tournaments. Still though, Metaknight is just plain annoying.
metalmonstar
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,081
Yeah, but I have only seen Neo do this Advanced Technique consistently. Besides Yoshi is gender confused so that bumps him down a good bit.
I don't get what is so funny. I have studied this game so much. Even cited online matches. I have read all the character threads. I know what I am talking about.
Also I did beat M2K. I beat his marth with Pichu. At first he was so mad but then we laughed about it.
That is so harsh Dyne.
jiovanni007
Smash Ace
I'm up for some friendly discussion, IMO this list has 8 tiers, that's too many. Six tiers is just right, any more and unfair distinctions begin to be made.
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
Are the distinctions really as important as the seeding?
But I did make it into 6 tiers. I just have two of those tiers broken down more. :D
jiovanni007
Smash Ace
Not as important as the seeding, but for example it make it seem as if Olimar has a very difficult time dealing with the likes of those above him when in actuality, the difference isn't that huge. Also, we should make an intelligent tier list right now before the trolls return IMO.
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
Haha tooooo true. But Olimar isn't really that great. He can pull some trixies, but without his Pikmin, he dies. He has no speed, but his camping isn't bad. The problem is getting those Pikmin to really work their magic. If the opponent can pressure, Olimar has serious trouble. I used to main him.
gantrain05
Smash Master
i dont know if i agree with bottom tier so much, i play a pretty good charizard and i beat wolfs and warios all the time, and my friends play a pretty **** good wolf, maybe wario could use some work, i haven't really seen a really good wario, but definately char is not bottom tier, and lucas is definately at least one tier above ness.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
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- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
Metaknight is better than Snake, although I agree his actual matchup vs Snake is unfavorable.
Metaknight is superior at approaching and can almost always remain safe on block. Snake doesn't have this luxury, especially since his air game is crap. Snake also is more easily comboed and more easily gimped.
Metaknight also has better kill moves than Snake. Snake has only ONE reliable kill move. The U-tilt. Everything else is telegraphed, his lousy air game, or his ultra diminished F-tilt. Metaknight almost NEVER has problems with diminishing returns since almost all of his attacks are spammable, and he both kills AND gimps with U-smash and D-smash which are super fast and safe to use. Not to mention Metaknight is generally better at ledgeguarding anyway with so many attacks that send people horizontally.
How does Snake being worse come into play? Go against Pikachu, Falco, or DDD. I'm pretty sure Snake actually loses a bit to those characters who can camp him and chaingrab him to death and gimp him like hell. I'm pretty sure MK does better against those characters, not to mention is pretty solid overall against anyone else. Might I also add that G&W also happens to have the advantage on those three characters lol?
Snake isn't number 1. He just does well against number 1. XD
Metaknight is superior at approaching and can almost always remain safe on block. Snake doesn't have this luxury, especially since his air game is crap. Snake also is more easily comboed and more easily gimped.
Metaknight also has better kill moves than Snake. Snake has only ONE reliable kill move. The U-tilt. Everything else is telegraphed, his lousy air game, or his ultra diminished F-tilt. Metaknight almost NEVER has problems with diminishing returns since almost all of his attacks are spammable, and he both kills AND gimps with U-smash and D-smash which are super fast and safe to use. Not to mention Metaknight is generally better at ledgeguarding anyway with so many attacks that send people horizontally.
How does Snake being worse come into play? Go against Pikachu, Falco, or DDD. I'm pretty sure Snake actually loses a bit to those characters who can camp him and chaingrab him to death and gimp him like hell. I'm pretty sure MK does better against those characters, not to mention is pretty solid overall against anyone else. Might I also add that G&W also happens to have the advantage on those three characters lol?
Snake isn't number 1. He just does well against number 1. XD
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
You bring up some excellent points, but Snake still kills. You can't take the insta-bair out of the picture. He still does well against many of the upper tiers. Though, Pikachu has some remarkable exploits.
The other thing is tournament results too: and Snakes are winning up and down the place.
Metaknight is still very much like [melee] Sheik. And can **** very much like [melee] Sheik. The reasoning I have is the degradation of the character. People are learning how to best your top tier. =/
The other thing is tournament results too: and Snakes are winning up and down the place.
Metaknight is still very much like [melee] Sheik. And can **** very much like [melee] Sheik. The reasoning I have is the degradation of the character. People are learning how to best your top tier. =/
PT has three characters. Frankly I believe Charizard is the best of the characters overall. But, there are a lot of downsides overall to PT. This is why I have him as low as he is. You still have to play Ivysaur and Squirtle. If you can't gimp with Ivysaur, you basically play a 2 stock game and and hope on your last stock. Lucas is definitely better than Ness, but he really isn't good. But he's at the top of his listing and Ness is at the bottom, so we're thinking similarly.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
pikachu will be high to top tier watch i seen miracules mindgames with pika
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxzaADQ1Ii4&feature=related
oh yeah look at that and tell me otherwise i know hylian in real life and he would **** you
oh yeah look at that and tell me otherwise i know hylian in real life and he would **** you
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
LoL Raistlin. I'd totally agree with you, save for one thing. JIGGLYPUFF has no rest. OR the ability to stay alive. [WOOT! I can't count] Sadly, I feel those things affect her quite the bit. But I'm also biased. I second Jigglypuff and I main Ganon. *rolls eyes* Hehe
And I've seen Hylian play. He's my reasoning for putting IC and Pikachu as high as they are. :D
But Pikachu is amazing, I agree. I'm only worried about the Metaknight match-up for [her?]. And the fact that the characters above her do better at tournaments. For now anyway.
And I've seen Hylian play. He's my reasoning for putting IC and Pikachu as high as they are. :D
But Pikachu is amazing, I agree. I'm only worried about the Metaknight match-up for [her?]. And the fact that the characters above her do better at tournaments. For now anyway.
Raistlin
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,215
I was agreeing with you that Pikachu is amazing, no need to randomly rag on mehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxzaADQ1Ii4&feature=related
oh yeah look at that and tell me otherwise i know hylian in real life and he would **** you
And Blank, Jigglypuff may die early, but she died early in Melee too. She still has no problem killing things, she just isn't AS good as it as she used to be without rest. Hence, mid tier (maybe low end of it).
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
Says the guy with Dnote in his sig
Jiggs is actually surprisingly rising and getting better and better the wop is better further and connects better if you hit with all of jiggs D-Air that will lead to Rest and it WILL CONNECT. so yeah jiggs is not that bad. also does like on melee and dodges falcos lazers
@Raistlin Omg lolz sorry i just got off work and i'm all confused like
Jiggs is actually surprisingly rising and getting better and better the wop is better further and connects better if you hit with all of jiggs D-Air that will lead to Rest and it WILL CONNECT. so yeah jiggs is not that bad. also does like on melee and dodges falcos lazers
@Raistlin Omg lolz sorry i just got off work and i'm all confused like
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
Possible. I might give in. We'll see. I mean her WoP is still pretty **** good. Hmmmmm....
Btw Raist, call me cult. You know who I am, lol
*EDIT*
SCREW IT. I love the puff just as much as anyone else. I'll do it. LoMid. And Pimp, cool. Didn't know rest CAN still work a few times. Those few times might very make up for the early deaths.
Btw Raist, call me cult. You know who I am, lol
*EDIT*
SCREW IT. I love the puff just as much as anyone else. I'll do it. LoMid. And Pimp, cool. Didn't know rest CAN still work a few times. Those few times might very make up for the early deaths.
Raistlin
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,215
Whatever! And **** straight, show that little ball of jiggly joy some love.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
i mean jiggs won't be top but maybe high. Jiggs looses to all top tier chars with ease....
Also Jiggs counter Picks Big Chars Try Light jump out of sheild and rest and WORKS as well.
Also Jiggs counter Picks Big Chars Try Light jump out of sheild and rest and WORKS as well.
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
LoL Pslap, if she moves up, she'll move up. I put her a few spots higher though. I honestly thought rest was basically useless. I'll dream about it tonight and come up with a better conclusion.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
Don't put tier list here dude it will get Judged for all eternity. lolz i made a great tier list like 30 pages agao and i gave up on it almost everyone agreed with me lolz
On a side not i like the live action Death Note Movie it was good. But it did not beat Speed Racer
On a side not i like the live action Death Note Movie it was good. But it did not beat Speed Racer
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
Speed Racer was pretty bad***. Then again, so is Pikachu's Thunder.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
Pikachus Brokeness is in his up B!
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
Speaking of which, how do you QAC? Oh right, Pikachu discussion. My bad, lol.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
I think at like level 15 i think lolz
jiovanni007
Smash Ace
So here's what I've been having on my mind, I've been reluctant to post it due to some people not responding to proper logic. I use a 6 tier system because it provides the most balance of separation to the characters and I actually posted this idea some time ago. So here it is (explanations at bottom):
Top Tier
Meta Knight
Snake
High Tier
Game & Watch
R.O.B.
Marth
Falco
Toon Link
Upper Tier
Ice Climbers
King Dedede
Wolf
Pikachu
Wario
Olimar
Kirby
Pit
Zelda
Middle Tier
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Fox
Zero Suit Samus
Sheik
PT - Charizard
Ike
Low Tier
Sonic
Peach
Yoshi
Mario
Ness
PT - Squirtle
Bowser
Samus
PT - Ivysaur
Link
Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Top Tier
-First off, yes Meta Knight over Snake. Snake counters Meta Knight, Meta Knight counters almost everyone else. Meta is an overall better character and their tournament standings are far too close to give Snake the top spot because he can counter Meta.
-Yes, GaW is the 3rd best character in the game. Aside from his bair ******, his dair *****, his nair is a ridiculous anti air attack, uair stalling after someone's ^B is instant gimpage in a good GaW. His power is also through the roof and he has a dthrow that chains into his dsmash on a lot of characters. Oil Panic's power is through the roof now and can **** you up with something as weak as Falco's laser. R.O.B. over Marth due to his weight and projectile game. Also the insta-Dsmash is a very unique tool that can catch anyone off guard. They would be more equal than anything. Falco and Toon Link are pretty self-explanitory, the underperforming monsters.
Upper Tier
-These guys are WAY too good to be shoved into the Middle Tier or to even be called "High Mid Tier." They have the distinction of being very well balanced characters with unique quirks that allows them to stand above the rest of the cast. However, they are still not in league with the 2nd tier characters and therefore have their very own tier. The top 5 should be pretty obvious to most people. IC's crazy inescapable combos, D3's wicked range, CG, and massive weight, Wolf's camping and fighting skills, Pika's huge buffs and spam, and Wario's naturally unpredictable nature and totally unexpected tourney standings. As far as the rest go, Olimar while easily gimped can still hold his own in most cases. He is very light, but proper Pikmin management spells the end for many opponents. Those who claim his Pikmin pull is too slow should count to 2 and realize that Olimar went from 0 Pikmin to 6 Pikmin and is already approaching you. Kirby is a beast, though I am a Kirby main and fanboy rolled into one, I am not at all biased. Kirby has an excellent aerial game with his high priority bair, fair, and dair. Uair can pseudo juggle and gimping is easy. Throw combos and utilts also make matches easy to maintain. The downside is that he can be camped by come characters and is KOed fromt he ceiling easily. Pit is a lot lighter than he looks, but comes with one of the best projectiles in the game and a mirror shield that's make Mario's Melee cape look like a baby blanket. Factor that in with the power and quickness of his bair and fsmash, good throw trajectories, and a FoP fair and you have something very nice. Zelda is very defensive, has a reflector, and a disjoint on almost every attack. Din's Fire needs no explanation. Terrible tournament standings may actually hamper her as people will continuously doubt her skills.
Middle Tier
-Lucario is the best of the mid tier. Him, DK and Luigi have to most possibility of forcing some of the Upper tier characters down into the Middle tier. Lucario has the craziest hitboxes in the game. Some linger for very noticeable while. He is hampered by a lack of power at low damage and he's also easy to KO off of the ceiling due to his floaty physics. To make up for this, he does have the instant dair to defend himself so uairs may not always hit their mark. Luigi is now starting to show his true skill and has power for days, an awesome recovery, and a jab -> Shoryuken combo that makes Ken cry at night. DK has the best reach in the game, power, and is speedier than he looks. He is however easily camped and coboed due to his huge weight. Regardless of what people say, Sheik is mid tier. She lost many fans along with her chaingrabs and her metagame is sluggish in development. Her tourney standings prove that she can still be used and may increase some in the coming months. Charizard is easily the best of PT and can stand toe to toe with many characters. Though heavy and easily comboed, don't think for a second that he's slow. His dtilt has speed comparable to Snakes utilt and can kill at mid percents. Rock smash is actually a great approach along with his fair when spaced properly. Fatigue kills him though, but he suffers the least due to the fact that he's already very powerful. Ike rounds this tier out with his superior range and unmatched power. A sluggish pace and poor recovery hamper him and may actually drag him down in the future.
Low Tier
-As far as this tier goes, Sonic hits the top. He raises much argument and has a very random tournament standing. He may move up in the future if his tournament standings balance out towards the winning standard. As of right now, his skills may prove to propel him forward. Peach has definitely lost a lot, power, dsmash, turnip gimping and a second jump. She does still have float canceling and mindgames for days with slide tossing. More than likely she will stay here. As far as Squirtle and Ivy go, they just can't match up to opponents alone. Ivysaur is very light, very gimpable, and unlike Olimar, doesn't have a good priority quick attack outside of the weak bair. Usmash while powerful, will not hit very often. Squirtle is all around weak, very light, and his gimp game is very overrated. Spamus isn't as bad as people make her out, but by no means good. Projectiles while weak can still be use. To bad she has a very difficult time KOing. Link stays low opposed to bottom due to him actually having a decent projectile game and a decent amount of power. Other than that, he is far too slow and is one of the few characters that can die without hitting the wall or being gimped.
Bottom Tier
-The last 2 are pretty much agreed upon and Jigglypuff is here because she can't last long at all, can barely kill with rest, and doesn't gimp nearly as well as before.
Top Tier
Meta Knight
Snake
High Tier
Game & Watch
R.O.B.
Marth
Falco
Toon Link
Upper Tier
Ice Climbers
King Dedede
Wolf
Pikachu
Wario
Olimar
Kirby
Pit
Zelda
Middle Tier
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Fox
Zero Suit Samus
Sheik
PT - Charizard
Ike
Low Tier
Sonic
Peach
Yoshi
Mario
Ness
PT - Squirtle
Bowser
Samus
PT - Ivysaur
Link
Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Top Tier
-First off, yes Meta Knight over Snake. Snake counters Meta Knight, Meta Knight counters almost everyone else. Meta is an overall better character and their tournament standings are far too close to give Snake the top spot because he can counter Meta.
-Yes, GaW is the 3rd best character in the game. Aside from his bair ******, his dair *****, his nair is a ridiculous anti air attack, uair stalling after someone's ^B is instant gimpage in a good GaW. His power is also through the roof and he has a dthrow that chains into his dsmash on a lot of characters. Oil Panic's power is through the roof now and can **** you up with something as weak as Falco's laser. R.O.B. over Marth due to his weight and projectile game. Also the insta-Dsmash is a very unique tool that can catch anyone off guard. They would be more equal than anything. Falco and Toon Link are pretty self-explanitory, the underperforming monsters.
Upper Tier
-These guys are WAY too good to be shoved into the Middle Tier or to even be called "High Mid Tier." They have the distinction of being very well balanced characters with unique quirks that allows them to stand above the rest of the cast. However, they are still not in league with the 2nd tier characters and therefore have their very own tier. The top 5 should be pretty obvious to most people. IC's crazy inescapable combos, D3's wicked range, CG, and massive weight, Wolf's camping and fighting skills, Pika's huge buffs and spam, and Wario's naturally unpredictable nature and totally unexpected tourney standings. As far as the rest go, Olimar while easily gimped can still hold his own in most cases. He is very light, but proper Pikmin management spells the end for many opponents. Those who claim his Pikmin pull is too slow should count to 2 and realize that Olimar went from 0 Pikmin to 6 Pikmin and is already approaching you. Kirby is a beast, though I am a Kirby main and fanboy rolled into one, I am not at all biased. Kirby has an excellent aerial game with his high priority bair, fair, and dair. Uair can pseudo juggle and gimping is easy. Throw combos and utilts also make matches easy to maintain. The downside is that he can be camped by come characters and is KOed fromt he ceiling easily. Pit is a lot lighter than he looks, but comes with one of the best projectiles in the game and a mirror shield that's make Mario's Melee cape look like a baby blanket. Factor that in with the power and quickness of his bair and fsmash, good throw trajectories, and a FoP fair and you have something very nice. Zelda is very defensive, has a reflector, and a disjoint on almost every attack. Din's Fire needs no explanation. Terrible tournament standings may actually hamper her as people will continuously doubt her skills.
Middle Tier
-Lucario is the best of the mid tier. Him, DK and Luigi have to most possibility of forcing some of the Upper tier characters down into the Middle tier. Lucario has the craziest hitboxes in the game. Some linger for very noticeable while. He is hampered by a lack of power at low damage and he's also easy to KO off of the ceiling due to his floaty physics. To make up for this, he does have the instant dair to defend himself so uairs may not always hit their mark. Luigi is now starting to show his true skill and has power for days, an awesome recovery, and a jab -> Shoryuken combo that makes Ken cry at night. DK has the best reach in the game, power, and is speedier than he looks. He is however easily camped and coboed due to his huge weight. Regardless of what people say, Sheik is mid tier. She lost many fans along with her chaingrabs and her metagame is sluggish in development. Her tourney standings prove that she can still be used and may increase some in the coming months. Charizard is easily the best of PT and can stand toe to toe with many characters. Though heavy and easily comboed, don't think for a second that he's slow. His dtilt has speed comparable to Snakes utilt and can kill at mid percents. Rock smash is actually a great approach along with his fair when spaced properly. Fatigue kills him though, but he suffers the least due to the fact that he's already very powerful. Ike rounds this tier out with his superior range and unmatched power. A sluggish pace and poor recovery hamper him and may actually drag him down in the future.
Low Tier
-As far as this tier goes, Sonic hits the top. He raises much argument and has a very random tournament standing. He may move up in the future if his tournament standings balance out towards the winning standard. As of right now, his skills may prove to propel him forward. Peach has definitely lost a lot, power, dsmash, turnip gimping and a second jump. She does still have float canceling and mindgames for days with slide tossing. More than likely she will stay here. As far as Squirtle and Ivy go, they just can't match up to opponents alone. Ivysaur is very light, very gimpable, and unlike Olimar, doesn't have a good priority quick attack outside of the weak bair. Usmash while powerful, will not hit very often. Squirtle is all around weak, very light, and his gimp game is very overrated. Spamus isn't as bad as people make her out, but by no means good. Projectiles while weak can still be use. To bad she has a very difficult time KOing. Link stays low opposed to bottom due to him actually having a decent projectile game and a decent amount of power. Other than that, he is far too slow and is one of the few characters that can die without hitting the wall or being gimped.
Bottom Tier
-The last 2 are pretty much agreed upon and Jigglypuff is here because she can't last long at all, can barely kill with rest, and doesn't gimp nearly as well as before.
Raistlin
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,215
How are any of these characters better than Jiggs? I believe she's better than most of them, and probably on par with the top 3.
jiovanni007
Smash Ace
What? Hopefully you're not talking about Snake, Meta, and GaW as top 3. Jiggz lost the power of her rest, may rest combos due to the lack of hitstun in Brawl, a guaranteed kill from rest due to Sakurai being mean in general, she's lighter than ever, and due to character's tracking to the edge, dsmash is no longer an edgeguarding tool. She's all around weak and can't hold a candle to anything anymore. Seriously, I hope that was a joke.
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
The top 3 of what was quoted is what he meant.
gantrain05
Smash Master
i think jiovanis list is pretty good, altho fox may have been gimped i still think he has the edge over more characters than wolf, his Dair to Dsmash actually works quite well against most chars, excluding the rediculously fast ones like MK or R.O.B.s Dsmash and i find fox's combo ability just a bit better than wolfs but overall i do believe both of them are very good and we'll need a few more tourneys to really see.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
I think tiers in this game will matter less than in Melee...Meaning, if there are 5 characters in high tier, each will do equally well...One won't stand out from each other.
DarkRenji
Smash Journeyman
They don't matter that much, IF you leave out Snake.
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