Ratherion
Smash Journeyman
I believe there is an Akuma in Ninja Gaiden.
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Me? yeah I like sheik, I play as sheik... sheik is good... but it just so happens that her best move is down+B which kinda margenalizes her... but I'll move her up now that it's been brought upSheik is still mid-tier dude....
Jeez, just because she isn't Cable anymore doesn't mean she's not still good....
*sigh* Why are people so borderline?Me? yeah I like sheik, I play as sheik... sheik is good... but it just so happens that her best move is down+B which kinda margenalizes her... but I'll move her up now that it's been brought up
listen, there's absolutely no need for you to be so rude. honeslty, it's a wonder I'm replying to you after this post, but I will anyway:*sigh* Why are people so borderline?
It's entirely possible for a character with two forms to be quite useful in BOTH of those forms, you know. It's entirely possible that while Zelda is an overall better character, Sheik has her uses and can do things that Zelda cannot, such as have a halfway decent method of approach.
This may come as a shock to you, but I've seen people win as Samus WITHOUT switching to Zero Suit Samus! INCREDIBLE, isn't it?!
The fact that you're implying that there's no reason to play as Sheik in a tournament is extremely irritating. As someone who plays Sheik and does well, it's very frustrating to be snubbed by anyone, especially an anon on SWF.snippet that's too long to quote in full, but tl;dr edition is that Sheik sucks
one last post since this response of yours was no warmer nor less rude than the first...The fact that you're implying that there's no reason to play as Sheik in a tournament is extremely irritating. As someone who plays Sheik and does well, it's very frustrating to be snubbed by anyone, especially an anon on SWF.
I agree with you. Sheik is middle of the road. Zelda isn't much higher up than that. Since I started with 3S I'm going to use Street Fighter terminology for this, and I do apologize in advance. Seriously, no sarcasm.
Zelda is upper-mid. I'd say Sheik is mid-mid. Sonic is almost unanimously considered to be low-tier, but he's won tournaments. If Sheik is middle tier, doesn't that mean that, overall, she's better than Sonic? So if Sonic wins tournaments, can't Sheik do the same thing, in theory?
I agree that Zelda is better. But there are some people who, as absurd as it may seem, dislike Zelda's playstyle. The way that Sheik plays, which is mostly about running fast and using quick combination attacks, is distinctive, and she plays the same way she does in Melee. She just isn't as good at it. For people who enjoy the way Sheik plays, she's still playable and a Sheik player can still win in Brawl, just like in Melee, a Samus player can win even though she isn't top-tier or even high.
Just as Zelda has her high points, so does Sheik. Sheik is very, very fast, she's quick on the draw, and her projectile is pretty cool. The way your post comes off, you're implying that Sheik is completely worthless. I'm here to tell you that that isn't anywhere close to true.
Call me rude if you want, ignore me if you want, but that's my two cents.
I apoligize for this but...one last post since this response of yours was no warmer nor less rude than the first...
Lobelia Mk. IV wasn't talking about what you actually said, Lobelia Mk. IV was talking about what you implied. While it might have been a bit sweeping it's not incorrect, you didn't imply that Sheik was any better then low tier.2) I never claimed sheik was rubish at all... I said she was mid-mid at best and high-low at worst... don't attempt to fabricate my words... you can in no way twist wahta I said in anyway to say that shiek is worthless, and I really don't appreciate you misquoting me. if you aren't going to quote my post, then you sure as hell better make sure that you aren't lying about what I said in your "quote" that you make up.
difference between mid-low and mid-mid is very minor.5) This, if nothing else, is what makes me disregard your comments... you claim that zelda and shiek are very similar in skill. That's just dead wrong. As much as you may like to believe the alternative, sheik is no better than mid-mid. Zelda, on the other hand, is in the high area of high at a minimum... shiek just isn't in her league at all. And, yes, I play both of them proficiently.
Top:
Snake
Meta Knight
Very High
Game & Watch
Marth
Zelda
Falco
Toon Link
Olimar
High:
Rob
Diddy Kong
Wario
Pit
Lucario
Lucas
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Dedede
Middle:
Wolf
Pokemon Trainer
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Squirtle
Sheik
Charizard
Donkey Kong
Mario
Fox
Low:
Ness
Peach
Kirby
Ike
Bowser
Samus
Sonic
Ivysaur
Bottom:
Link
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Yoshi
Capatin Falcon
If you were pointing out his mistakes, you missed the biggest one - Kirby in low tier? Sure I may have biased feelings about one of my favorite videogame characters of all times, but the facts denote Kirby should be either 1 or 2 in the mid tier, or the bottom of the high tier. Reasoning behind this is that he murders almost everyone below him, and has some favorable match-ups in the higher tiers. For one, Ike should be low on your high tier and is a favorable match-up for Kirby. Fox and Wolf should also be somewhere in the high tier, where I'm not exactly sure though. He, as with all spacies is also a favorable match-up for Kirby. Everyone in the lower tiers except for Sheik is either a favorable or even match-up. As for the rest of the higher tier characters, his only extreme disadvantages are Lucas, Kirby, Meta Knight, and Ice Climbers who have a field day on Kirby. These four <i>SHOULD</i> win any match against Kirby with little trouble. Some tough matches, but still very manageable matches are Toon Link, Zelda, Marth, and GaW. Most match-ups are even, but notable favors include vs Olimar, vs Spacies, vs D3, vs SNAKE!!! Olimar's >B is easily outprioritized by Kirby's aerial approach, he's cake to edgeguard, and his lightness makes him easy to KO. Spacies get comboed to 50%~53% from 0%, get comboed otherwise very easily due to their gravity, and with the exception of Wolf, get KOed easily, and with the exception of Fox, can be edgeguarded with little effort. D3 can't chaingrab, is a massive target, and gets comboed very well. Snake is also comboed well, camping Snakes aren't as effective and his ^B is no match for Kirby's bair.Well, since Hedgedawg appears to take criticism personally, I don't think I should say anything to him. Shame, his new tier list isn't half bad, but if I point out the flaws, he'll call me a rude person again, and that kind of drama isn't something I want before I've had my coffee.
I don't think I have enough savoir-faire to make a tier list, but I can tell you what I know. I know that Snake, Meta Knight, Marth, and Falco are top tier. I know that you'll mostly likely see the BRoomers place Diddy Kong, Olimar, and Zero Suit Samus in the high tier. I know that the mid-tier in Brawl is bigger than Melee's, and Donkey Kong, Zelda, Sheik, WEEGEE, Ike, and Pokemon Trainer will probably be found there. I know, as much as I hate to admit, that Samus is low tier, as is Jigglypuff. Bottom tier I'd give to Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, and Sonic, personally, but that's just me.
I think one of the more up-in-the-air characters right now is Peach. Now, Peach is my only secondary in Melee, and I'm halfway decent with her there, so I was pretty cheesed when I discovered that she's no longer a defensive goddess in Brawl. Her tier list placing has ranged from mid-mid to dead bottom, but I personally would call Peach low-mid. She can still rumble. I myself whip her out from time to time and have moderate success, but the thing is that a lot of the tools upon which Peach relied in Melee are gone. They aren't nerfed or toned down, they're gone. Which is sad. But it's true.
What do you guys think of Peach?
Responding to spam is still spam. :/Sonic? no. not a chance. and Snake at (almost) the bottom? Also, I don't think we're going to see Ike that high. :/
*EDIT* just read back some. found out this list is a joke. *sigh* why bother making a joke list. it isn't funny at all :/
I don't mind criticism... I mind condescencion and when people lie about what I said... whether intentionally or not.Well, since Hedgedawg appears to take criticism personally, I don't think I should say anything to him. Shame, his new tier list isn't half bad, but if I point out the flaws, he'll call me a rude person again, and that kind of drama isn't something I want before I've had my coffee.
I don't think I have enough savoir-faire to make a tier list, but I can tell you what I know. I know that Snake, Meta Knight, Marth, and Falco are top tier. I know that you'll mostly likely see the BRoomers place Diddy Kong, Olimar, and Zero Suit Samus in the high tier. I know that the mid-tier in Brawl is bigger than Melee's, and Donkey Kong, Zelda, Sheik, WEEGEE, Ike, and Pokemon Trainer will probably be found there. I know, as much as I hate to admit, that Samus is low tier, as is Jigglypuff. Bottom tier I'd give to Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, and Sonic, personally, but that's just me.
I think one of the more up-in-the-air characters right now is Peach. Now, Peach is my only secondary in Melee, and I'm halfway decent with her there, so I was pretty cheesed when I discovered that she's no longer a defensive goddess in Brawl. Her tier list placing has ranged from mid-mid to dead bottom, but I personally would call Peach low-mid. She can still rumble. I myself whip her out from time to time and have moderate success, but the thing is that a lot of the tools upon which Peach relied in Melee are gone. They aren't nerfed or toned down, they're gone. Which is sad. But it's true.
What do you guys think of Peach?
Reasoning plz...I told you why he should be top of mid-tier or bottom of high tier, yet you respond with a single opinionated sentence.to the other guy: kirby is good, sure, but no way he's high tier. neither is fox...
I'm not denying Zelda's quality, but I do think that ZSS is better. I wouldn't say she's in the same league as Falco, either. Zelda has way too many flaws to be placed in the same category as little miss lasers and d-smash. The reason I didn't list Game & Watch or R.O.B. is because everyone's so up in the air about them.I don't mind criticism... I mind condescencion and when people lie about what I said... whether intentionally or not.
You are underestimating zelda... no matter how you split it, she's higher than mid tier.
I play peach a lot. I love her, she's really fun and has one of the most unique playstyles, but the problem is she has a lot of uphill fights... which means she's gotta be in the lower tiers... too bad too I wish it weren't so.
Sonic's better than bottom tier... he's not better than low tier, but he's not bottom.
ZSS is not better than zelda.
G&W is better than falco or olimar
Zelda is about on par with falco, but is better than olimar.
As a player of jiggz as well... I thinkt that, if she is low, she's in the lower portion of low... all that was good about her has been cut significantly except her fair.
to the other guy: kirby is good, sure, but no way he's high tier. neither is fox...
I'm not denying Zelda's quality, but I do think that ZSS is better. I wouldn't say she's in the same league as Falco, either. Zelda has way too many flaws to be placed in the same category as little miss lasers and d-smash. The reason I didn't list Game & Watch or R.O.B. is because everyone's so up in the air about them.
Ness is actually the only character that has a favorable match-up against Kirby in the Mid-Low tier and even then its more like a 55-45 or 60-40 which can still go either way. Ike is no problem for Kirby even though Ike should still be in the lower portion of the high tier. Ike has power, and true Ike players know how to get around his lag, but Kirby can still approach him with little problem, gimp him at extremely low %, and comboes him as he does with all heavy characters.Kirby doesn't match up well against a single one of the really high charcters:
Meta Knight, Snake, Game and Watch, Marth, Zelda, Falco all match up favourably against kirby so he's going to get reamed in upper level play.
Even in the high tier, toon link ice climbers and pikachu at least have him stopped.
he gets beaten by some of the mid-low characters too... like ike and ness.
and that's just people with advantages on him. A lot of the mid characters he has no advantage on but only is on equal footing. heck... even some low charcters he's only equal with... like G-dorf or ivy... in fact... it looks pretty much like this almost exactly:
Kirby vs top or high: kirby loses
Kirby vs Mid- bottom: kirby will probably win, but it's a toss up.
really he's no beter than mid tier at best. maybe he doesn't quite deserve low tier, but he doesn't deserve anything in the upper half of the roster.
Eh, I hear so many different things about Game & Watch that I don't know what to think. He's good stuff for sure, though, I agree. I wouldn't say that he's solid third, though. I'd give that spot to Toon Link or Princess Marth. R.O.B. is up in the air for me. He's one of only two characters I know of that are actually at an advantage versus Snake, the other being Mr. Game & Watch. However, certain other characters rip him up pretty bad. I don't know how he is vs. Samus in terms of matchups, but I've never met a R.O.B. player that could beat me and my trusty zair.G&W is not really a toss up... he's upper eschelon for sure... where EXACTLY, who knows, but definitely in the upper eschelon and most put him as a solid 3rd.
ROB moreso is a tossup, but still high.
Zelda has flaws, maybe even more than falco, but the gap between zelda and falco is definitely closer than the gap between either one of them and the next charcter down.
ZSS is good, but she has a lot more bad matchups than zelda.
Move DK, Diddy, Olimar, and Wolf up. Also, R.O.B and Toon Link should switch places.Here is something for you guys to tear apart.
Top:
Snake
MK
High-High:
G&W
Marth
ROB
Falco
Mid-High:
Toon Link
Dedede
Climbers
Low-High:
Pikachu
Zelda
Mid High:
Pit
Diddy Kong
Zamus
Fox
Wario
Olimar
Luigi
Mid Mid:
Wolf
Kirby
Squirtle*
Lucario
Ike
Lucas
Low Mid:
Sheik
Charizard*
Ness
Mario
DK
Bowser
Ptrainer (composite)
Low:
Sonic
Peach
Link
Yoshi
Very low:
C.Falcon
Ivysaur*
Samus
G-dorf
Jiggly
kirby pwns everyone nuts you played me....kirby is NOT low tier.
I'd move zelda up and DDD down tooMove DK, Diddy, Olimar, and Wolf up. Also, R.O.B and Toon Link should switch places.
she doesn't really have any special trouble with pit,Yeah I may have overrated Dedede slightly. But I think Zelda's about right. I think just about everyone ranked above her has an advantage over her. She also has trouble dealing with Pit, Lucas, and Ness.