StripesOrBars
Smash Master
LOL @ ******* who don't believe in tiers.
-
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Dantarion
Smash Champion
I think that it is still to early to make a actual tier list, but I am happy that you guys are having so much trouble doing so.
Brawl is definately more balanced than melee, to a point where the distance between the Top and Bottom tiers will be much smaller than in melee. Because of that, its hard to rank the characters, when none of them really stand out as being particularly better than everyone else.
Brawl is definately more balanced than melee, to a point where the distance between the Top and Bottom tiers will be much smaller than in melee. Because of that, its hard to rank the characters, when none of them really stand out as being particularly better than everyone else.
Dream Chaser
Smash Journeyman
Agrees, but its still fun to chat about it.
Have you seen this Pikachu? Pika should be considered for high tier.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149526
BTW My favourite is the Ike match
Have you seen this Pikachu? Pika should be considered for high tier.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149526
BTW My favourite is the Ike match
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
The game has been out for just over a month.
No one knows if its more balenced than melee.
STFU.
No one knows if its more balenced than melee.
STFU.
Dream Chaser
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I dont want official tiers until at least after Brawls release in Aus.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
It's amazing how people who sit around and play a game with their friends can be so naive to what is good and bad about that game.
This topic is inevitable.
And that just sucks.
This topic is inevitable.
And that just sucks.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
you just need to change your style m friend and except it i thought he sucked but i was wrong just earn to abuse mistakes because that is ganondorfs strentgh.
Plus his tilt forward-B knocks down doors
Plus his tilt forward-B knocks down doors
Marth overrated
I expected to get a lot of negative reviews on my post on page 106 about falco being considered for top tier, but I only got positive reviews. This suprised me since a lot of people had falco ranked at mid. So I decided to do another in-depth analysis of a character who I think is commonly misplaced, Marth. Now don't get me wrong, he is very good. I have watched about 100 matches with Marth in them on youtube and played him a lot myself. He is just as fast, has high priority, and massive range as everyone says he has and will probably be released as top tier seeing as he doesn't take much "re-learning" from the last game. However, I find a few flaws with Marth that make him not as strong as everyone says he is. I would like to say before I list his weaknesses if someone can show me a video that proves me otherwise, I would be happy to admit I was wrong. It could just be I can't play Marth and the videos I have watched up until now have not shown a "good" Marth yet. So here are the reasons why I think Marth is not top tier.
- His Dsmash is way too slow. This may not seem like a big deal, but to me it is. By simply rolling as soon as Marth starts an attack animation, it always puts Marth at a disadvantage. His Dsmash is slow enough that if the opponent starts the roll to dodge the front swing, he/she can shield before the backswing even hits. After the move finishes there is a severe lag time which the opponent can easily smash or grab Marth.
- His Bair isn't that great either. Combine this with the statement above and Marth's backside is really at all
- He has nothing to counter projectiles. In order to avoid projectiles Marth must (for the most part) do aerial attacks. Maybe this is just me, but it seems like in this game it is way too easy to counter air attack while you are on the ground and your opponent is in the air. Without being able to R/L cancel it is possible for characters (who have fast Dsmashes i.e. olimar, falco etc.) to simply Dsmash after shielding an aerial without the opponent having enough time to recover. This makes Marths insanely good aerials seem not as impressive to me.
- Having said the above I know a common response is that Marth can use his range with his aerials to make it so his placement upon landing us such that he cannot be counter attacked. However, it is my opinion that given how easy dash-shielding is this can be easily stopped.
But like I said, Marth will still probably be top tier, I just thought I'd see what you all thought.
I expected to get a lot of negative reviews on my post on page 106 about falco being considered for top tier, but I only got positive reviews. This suprised me since a lot of people had falco ranked at mid. So I decided to do another in-depth analysis of a character who I think is commonly misplaced, Marth. Now don't get me wrong, he is very good. I have watched about 100 matches with Marth in them on youtube and played him a lot myself. He is just as fast, has high priority, and massive range as everyone says he has and will probably be released as top tier seeing as he doesn't take much "re-learning" from the last game. However, I find a few flaws with Marth that make him not as strong as everyone says he is. I would like to say before I list his weaknesses if someone can show me a video that proves me otherwise, I would be happy to admit I was wrong. It could just be I can't play Marth and the videos I have watched up until now have not shown a "good" Marth yet. So here are the reasons why I think Marth is not top tier.
- His Dsmash is way too slow. This may not seem like a big deal, but to me it is. By simply rolling as soon as Marth starts an attack animation, it always puts Marth at a disadvantage. His Dsmash is slow enough that if the opponent starts the roll to dodge the front swing, he/she can shield before the backswing even hits. After the move finishes there is a severe lag time which the opponent can easily smash or grab Marth.
- His Bair isn't that great either. Combine this with the statement above and Marth's backside is really at all
- He has nothing to counter projectiles. In order to avoid projectiles Marth must (for the most part) do aerial attacks. Maybe this is just me, but it seems like in this game it is way too easy to counter air attack while you are on the ground and your opponent is in the air. Without being able to R/L cancel it is possible for characters (who have fast Dsmashes i.e. olimar, falco etc.) to simply Dsmash after shielding an aerial without the opponent having enough time to recover. This makes Marths insanely good aerials seem not as impressive to me.
- Having said the above I know a common response is that Marth can use his range with his aerials to make it so his placement upon landing us such that he cannot be counter attacked. However, it is my opinion that given how easy dash-shielding is this can be easily stopped.
But like I said, Marth will still probably be top tier, I just thought I'd see what you all thought.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
You should look at my tier list he's top tier there so don't worry
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
Tier List ... w/ thought involved? no wai!
Ok, first of all let me say that Brawl is a much more balanced style of play than melee, and I think Sakurai did a great job and creating balance while preserving integrity and individuality among the characters. In this game every character has a strength to use, and every character FEELS like their video game counterpart appeared in Sakurai's eye. However, with individuality comes comparison, and similarities and differences create balances and imbalances. People ask the question, who is the best character? Well that will always depend; some characters have great defense, some character great offense, some great degrees of strategy and some are very rounded and balanced. So it depends on what question you ask, and I'd like to clarify that:
The purpose of this tier list is to find out who is the best AT WINNING MATCHES.
In melee, the game was very polarized; you had camping characters, like Peach, Samus and Sheik, and you had characters with brutal offense, like the spacies, Marth, and Lol Shiek. Characters that could do neither as well as the best were beatable. The effect of a good offense is that it stimulates action, which is quite possibly what made melee so amazing; you always had to be doing something, doing something good was better than waiting which was better than doing something wasteful or bad. However, this had an unintended effect; the characters with the strongest offense were simply unstoppable, untouchable by the rest of the cast, and this destroyed some (but not all) of the diversity in the game. Eventually, people found that certain character's individual traits, like Bowser's up-B and Falcon's speedy grabs and powerful combos, could be used to offset the game's primary strategies and devise alternative methods of winning based on them, creating a great meta game.
I see the same thing beginning to develop in Brawl, but without the offense. I don't feel the stimulus to move and to attack or be attacked as much against many of the characters, and I feel the tier list is going to develop around those character that can evoke that reaction and bring the fight across the stage in a safe but effective manner, and I've ranked the characters as such below. First I'd like to explain my tiers.
Top Tier
These are the best characters in the game; these characters have no major counterpicks or counter strategies, and have impressive and established offensive capabilities.
High Tier
These are great characters to pick, and can compete gainfully at any level without need for extensive innovation or stylization.
Mid Tier
These characters are average in most respects, standouts in some, with no brutal counterpicks or counter strategies, and are able to innovate.
Low Tier
These characters suffer from flaws that hinder their ability to compete at tournament level. Creative play can be both rewarding and costly with these characters; however, in the grand balance, better players will still be able to effectively beat players that are worse than them with Low Tier characters.
Bottom Tier
Distinguishing between who is strong, well-balanced and usable among the low tiers, and who gets completely ***** by pretty much everyone.
So, without further ado...
Top Tier
Sheik - OMG nerfs, well not really. Sheik is still very fast and very agile and comes with the ability to hurt you and gimp you if you react predictably. I feel that she is the ONLY character that can handle all of the top tiers and win tournaments against the best of players with her techniques alone.
Diddy Kong - Bananas and Glide tossing are both very gay when separate and come together to form probably the gayest strategies in Brawl. Some characters just can't beat them, and that's a fact. Diddy loses points in his recovery and weight class, and can struggle to finish some characters but can definitely keep donking them until they die. Diddy Hump/Jumpkick is a really great edgeguard too.
Samus - That freaking grapple is really gay, and Samus has solid projectiles to back her up and good close combat. Only those with a combination of strength, speed, and mental fitness will be able to consistently win against Samus.
Meta Knight – Meta and Marth are interesting to place on the list because they play so similarly, however, I gave Meta the nod on this list because he has a few things that I feel give him the edge. First is Mach Tornado, which can almost totally shut down low priority characters like DK. Second is his lack of lag, which I think puts him above Marth in his ability to shut out less than pro players. Third is his edge/gimping game, and I think he has a slight nod over Marth off the stage due to his range off the stage and ability to recover when things go sour, even though I give Marth the nod in the actual match-up between the two.
Marth – We haven't seen the end of Marth yet. Marth is still one of the strongest characters in Brawl, and has the power to force almost every character to react to his actions. He has many new and old strategies that top players are using to place at the top of ladders and in tournaments, and I don't think we've seen all of his umph yet; 5th on this list, because whether or not you choose the cave of the silver monkey or the pit of despair, there is always a way to get through to the cave of sighs and out to the temple gates. Marth gets a donk here from DeDeDe's infinite grab.
High Tier
Mr. Game and Watch – Game and Watch, eh? The best game-and-watches in the country always get their man, and he is amazingly buff in Brawl. He can beat ANY character very soundly if they don't know what to do, especially with his mega mindgames buff downthrow, however, to place at the top, he'll have to get better at camping and get a new projectile. Why does G&W make the best sandwiches? BECAUSE HE LAYS ON THE MUSTARD, SON.
Lucario - Lucario is really good, don't get me wrong, but so is everyone else. Lucario get this spot on two things. The first is his primary mechanic: High Percent = High Damage. It makes for a neat trade but is high in risk and I don't think it works out as well as fighting at standard advantage unless you can maintain a lead. The second is his general imperfections. He has a projectile but it is weak. He has a fast roll, but a roll nonetheless. He has good aerials but they aren't quite spammable, and his smashes just can't kill unless Lucario is at high percent. He has combos and semicombos but they are difficult to set up. All in all his arsenal matches up with almost every character well and I think we'll see him winning many tournaments, I don't think he is the best in show.
Olimar - Olimar is really good at beating people up, has good disjointed hitboxes, and takes a thorough effort to beat. I don't think his gimpable recovery is a huge enough issue to go to war over, I feel that he competes at the top level but I don't feel that he can punish well enough to be the very best.
Pikachu – Pika got a major buff from Melee to Brawl, but the two biggest features are his extreme down throw chain grab, and his super buff low lag thunder, which can be effective as low at 70%. Pika also has a good projectile and solid all-around moves that work on every character, as well as Quick Attack Cancels, while not game-breaking, can certainly turn him into the Fox of Brawl in terms of speed. Pika gets his spot here on the basics + the gay; he has a few standard smash style moves that just work and keep working to build damage, he can land KO moves against any character, and then he has that chain grab which completely blows many match-ups out of the water.
Snake – Snake... is weird. He's really good, but at the same time, your ability to predict the battle comes into play very strongly, and I feel that that is what Sakurai intended. Though he is a great camper, Snake is slow, and vulnerable to defeat from some angles, and must be played both cautiously and effectively if you want to survive.
Falco - Falco hits every point; he can camp, combo and semicombo, pressure, space, fight in the air and ground, edge guard and gimp, and has a good grab game from his chain grab, however, his defense is weak. I think we'll see Falco develop into a very strong pick as the game progresses and we learn more about him.
King DeDeDe - Extremely strong, heavy, with a good camp and several good pokes and some great smashes, DeDeDe is a great pick and can certainly win tournaments, but is weak to a few good characters, like Falco, Pit and Lucas. DeDeDe grabs this spot by a hair simply because he's so good against the cream of the crop; Sheik, Meta and Marth.
Toon Link - Great character that is solid in all departments, but I think weight is a factor here, and getting back on the stage is another factor (not recovery, actually getting off the edge and onto the stage without getting swatted off). I think TL has to make a lot of good guesses and hammer in all of the coffin nails to win against many top tier characters, but his match-ups are all strong.
Mid Tier
Pit - I don't think he's as buff as most people think he is, but he can force many characters (including most of the high tiers) to play his game. I think he's honestly weak to solid all-around aerial/punishment characters like Sheik, Mario and Squirtle, and people with good counters to his arrows like Lucas. Everyone else will have to fight for their bread against Pit.
Ice Climbers - I need to see more of what they are capable of, but as of now they have good chaingrabs and combos, and perform against everyone effectively.
Ike – Ike is intensely powerful and has amazing priority, and several speedy moves that can KO at percents that are ********. Spacing with Ike is almost a non-issue; the idea is that positive trades will lead to brutal setups and early KO's. Unfortunately, I don't think he has the tools to win consistently enough to be at the top of the tier list, and is easily counterpicked, but I think against the very best of the best his match-ups improve, because Ike can force many live or die choices against top tiers.
Fox - Fox is a good character, and has a solid pressure game, and can win tournaments by punishing mistakes effectively and applying pressure moves in the right spots, but at the highest level he gets beaten to hell by the best characters that won't let him set up an attack, defend, camp, or recover. When questioning Fox's spot on the tier list, consider how he matches up with Marth, Sheik, and MetaKnight; I don't see consistency here at all, though he can be a great counterpick.
Jigglypuff - Not much different from melee, but without rest combos and with a seriously gimped rest, a big asset was lost, and I think Jiggs takes a major hit there. She can certainly compete with the best, however.
Peach – We haven't seen the last of Peach either. I think the Glide Toss will make her very strong and a viable tournament choice for experts, and though her old FC style is mostly out the window a stylish Peach can still lay it on.
Lucas - Lucas is hard to place, because he does everything well, is difficult to shut-down, and can fight off many characters. He is also an effective aggressive camper with PK fire, can gimp with Psi Magnet and PK Thunder, but overall, I think he has a bag of tricks that great players will be able to overcome with good pressure and solid play. A good comparison would be Mario; Lucas has good anti projectile and anticamper, good aerials, but against some characters, like Diddy, Sheik and Marth, will struggle to do damage or KO. As far as the counterpick Tier list goes, Lucas is #1, but if you're going to main him, be warned that you'll need to master all of his points to compete.
Zero Suit Samus - A good character, but with a weak recovery and a lot of lag on her really good spacers, and her projectile is a little funky but can lead to good setups. A solid choice for great players who like a fast style, but good-to-average players may want to take time to pick up a strong second to deal with their weaknesses.
Yoshi - Yoshi is mega buff! Don't underestimate him! He's got some camping, but mostly he's just SOLID; you have to really be good at smash to be able to consistently beat a good Yoshi. Best dinosaur in the game hands down, but overall doesn't have the tools to beat the far and away best characters.
R.O.B. - Rob is neato! But does he get the job done? The big deciding factor for Rob, I think, is how you effectively you use the dredel, and how good you are at spacing, but otherwise I think R.O.B. just doesn't have it in the offense department.
Kirby - Buffed from last game and definitely someone to be nervous about fighting, but I think if you've really mastered your character and understand Kirby, he's beatable with anyone. I don't think we'll see Kirby winning any major tournaments.
Wolf - Wolf is a strong character, no doubt, and overall one of the best if you are a gay douchehat, but I think he's beatable both on the stage and off the stage (doubly so off stage) by many characters. Great Wolf players will find ways to get around his weaknesses, however, I don't think he pays off as well as many of the characters higher than he is, and I think he'll be getting really ***** if people start overusing him.
Low Tier
Mario - Mario is really good in Brawl, and can beat any strategy with some combination of Cape, F-smash, Backair, Fireballs and juggles, but his problem comes when they start mixing it up in the right ways, making your Mario guess and take damage, and after a while you spend your time donked off the stage at a high percent until you're dead.
Donkey Kong - Good, but has a major issue with projectiles, camping, and lag on those attacks. Much like in Melee, a low tier but masters will continue to excel with him, and a valid tournament choice if he is your best and you know exactly how to handle the top tiers.
Zelda - Zelda is another one of those really good characters that relies entirely too much on landing more hits than the opponent. 5/10 camping, 8/10 power, 4/10 recovery, 5/10 for ingenuity, and good speed where it counts, but it took me a while to place her. Is she better than Mario? I don't think she's significantly better than Wolf or Kirby, but I don't think she's terrible either.
Ness - A good character with a great heart, still has all his tricks from Melee (minus the Yo-Yo glitch of course), and has many answers to the questions of the top tiers, but has yet to measure up to the overall challenge; I mean he can't use the same strategies over and over again to win with consistency, and he can't make most characters answer his attacks if they don't want to.
Link - We all know what Link can do, and those of us who mastered him in the last game found his limitation was that everyone knows exactly what Link can do. THANKS GERM ahem I mean...at the highest, most perfect level of play, he's a match for any character, but positioning and spacing is so important to keep that I just don't think he's feasible to do against good players.
Bottom Tier
Captain Falcon - He's not that fast, and his up-air is still pretty good, and you can plant moves if you are amazing, but I don't think he's that good anymore; he just doesn't get it done like he used to.
Wario - Many of you will be surprised to see Wario down so low, and I'll go ahead and elaborate; Wario won't win any major tournaments. Once you know what he's capable of, I think it's pretty easy to shut him down and beat him up from a fighting standpoint, which is the only one that Wario has. He has a large area for aerial creativity, I think, which is nice, and is fun to play and watch, I just don't feel like he has anything to give me that I can't find elsewhere. If you have questions, find a character above here that Wario can really put the thwomp on, and elaborate.
Bowser - Still pretty low. Another character with potential, but his obesity cannot be cured completely. Again, we see the Bowser strategy rotating between intercepting aerials, using his Up-B to punish from shield, and using the side B to throw off the opponent, but other characters win faster and do it better, and very mobile characters will just beat you to death.
Sonic - Oh man he looks super cool, but his smashes pretty much all suck, except for maybe the F-smash. F-tilt is a good spacer, but overall he is very reliant on his speed and can be shut down. Sonic is good as an all-rounder and a valid tournament choice, but I don't think you can consider beating the best characters 100% of the time playing only Sonic.
Luigi - Luigi really got it bad this game. He's got fire-punch for kills, but major kudos to you if you can beat a really good Diddy or Samus with the green plumber. A good camp is just too tough to break without wavedashing to back you up.
Pokemon Trainer - Well... man, I just don't know what to say about this guy. He's not all there. His game works from an if-you-can-get-this-off standpoint, but from a high level game play standpoint I just don't see it. Ivysaur is the most solid all around due to bullet seed but and related mvoes but is easily gimped and has trouble killing smart players. Squirtle is insanely light but a good counter to a variety of weak-hit reliant characters, like Mario and even Sheik, but Charizard and Ivysaur lack so much in those match-ups; you'll understand when your Lizardon gets Ken Combo'd to hell. It's almost as if you have to play a stock down with PT, it's so hard to overcome the inherent weaknesses of each Pokemon, and the fact that you are forced to switch by death and fatigue just makes the situation too complicated to overcome. Fatigue is a huge issue here; two minutes minus one second per move makes camping stupidly effective.
Ganondorf - Ganondorf has about three tricks up his sleeve, and if you can avoid them, you will win easily and handily with almost every character. Great 'dorfs, in Melee and in Brawl, have always been able to get it done and offer pain on both ends of a choice, but how the hell do you deal with needle camping with this guy? How to you get back to the stage when you get dunked? How exactly do you kill King DeDeDe? Dorf has some major issues and I think he's too easily counter picked to be a valid tournament character.
Ok, first of all let me say that Brawl is a much more balanced style of play than melee, and I think Sakurai did a great job and creating balance while preserving integrity and individuality among the characters. In this game every character has a strength to use, and every character FEELS like their video game counterpart appeared in Sakurai's eye. However, with individuality comes comparison, and similarities and differences create balances and imbalances. People ask the question, who is the best character? Well that will always depend; some characters have great defense, some character great offense, some great degrees of strategy and some are very rounded and balanced. So it depends on what question you ask, and I'd like to clarify that:
The purpose of this tier list is to find out who is the best AT WINNING MATCHES.
In melee, the game was very polarized; you had camping characters, like Peach, Samus and Sheik, and you had characters with brutal offense, like the spacies, Marth, and Lol Shiek. Characters that could do neither as well as the best were beatable. The effect of a good offense is that it stimulates action, which is quite possibly what made melee so amazing; you always had to be doing something, doing something good was better than waiting which was better than doing something wasteful or bad. However, this had an unintended effect; the characters with the strongest offense were simply unstoppable, untouchable by the rest of the cast, and this destroyed some (but not all) of the diversity in the game. Eventually, people found that certain character's individual traits, like Bowser's up-B and Falcon's speedy grabs and powerful combos, could be used to offset the game's primary strategies and devise alternative methods of winning based on them, creating a great meta game.
I see the same thing beginning to develop in Brawl, but without the offense. I don't feel the stimulus to move and to attack or be attacked as much against many of the characters, and I feel the tier list is going to develop around those character that can evoke that reaction and bring the fight across the stage in a safe but effective manner, and I've ranked the characters as such below. First I'd like to explain my tiers.
Top Tier
These are the best characters in the game; these characters have no major counterpicks or counter strategies, and have impressive and established offensive capabilities.
High Tier
These are great characters to pick, and can compete gainfully at any level without need for extensive innovation or stylization.
Mid Tier
These characters are average in most respects, standouts in some, with no brutal counterpicks or counter strategies, and are able to innovate.
Low Tier
These characters suffer from flaws that hinder their ability to compete at tournament level. Creative play can be both rewarding and costly with these characters; however, in the grand balance, better players will still be able to effectively beat players that are worse than them with Low Tier characters.
Bottom Tier
Distinguishing between who is strong, well-balanced and usable among the low tiers, and who gets completely ***** by pretty much everyone.
So, without further ado...
Top Tier
Sheik - OMG nerfs, well not really. Sheik is still very fast and very agile and comes with the ability to hurt you and gimp you if you react predictably. I feel that she is the ONLY character that can handle all of the top tiers and win tournaments against the best of players with her techniques alone.
Diddy Kong - Bananas and Glide tossing are both very gay when separate and come together to form probably the gayest strategies in Brawl. Some characters just can't beat them, and that's a fact. Diddy loses points in his recovery and weight class, and can struggle to finish some characters but can definitely keep donking them until they die. Diddy Hump/Jumpkick is a really great edgeguard too.
Samus - That freaking grapple is really gay, and Samus has solid projectiles to back her up and good close combat. Only those with a combination of strength, speed, and mental fitness will be able to consistently win against Samus.
Meta Knight – Meta and Marth are interesting to place on the list because they play so similarly, however, I gave Meta the nod on this list because he has a few things that I feel give him the edge. First is Mach Tornado, which can almost totally shut down low priority characters like DK. Second is his lack of lag, which I think puts him above Marth in his ability to shut out less than pro players. Third is his edge/gimping game, and I think he has a slight nod over Marth off the stage due to his range off the stage and ability to recover when things go sour, even though I give Marth the nod in the actual match-up between the two.
Marth – We haven't seen the end of Marth yet. Marth is still one of the strongest characters in Brawl, and has the power to force almost every character to react to his actions. He has many new and old strategies that top players are using to place at the top of ladders and in tournaments, and I don't think we've seen all of his umph yet; 5th on this list, because whether or not you choose the cave of the silver monkey or the pit of despair, there is always a way to get through to the cave of sighs and out to the temple gates. Marth gets a donk here from DeDeDe's infinite grab.
High Tier
Mr. Game and Watch – Game and Watch, eh? The best game-and-watches in the country always get their man, and he is amazingly buff in Brawl. He can beat ANY character very soundly if they don't know what to do, especially with his mega mindgames buff downthrow, however, to place at the top, he'll have to get better at camping and get a new projectile. Why does G&W make the best sandwiches? BECAUSE HE LAYS ON THE MUSTARD, SON.
Lucario - Lucario is really good, don't get me wrong, but so is everyone else. Lucario get this spot on two things. The first is his primary mechanic: High Percent = High Damage. It makes for a neat trade but is high in risk and I don't think it works out as well as fighting at standard advantage unless you can maintain a lead. The second is his general imperfections. He has a projectile but it is weak. He has a fast roll, but a roll nonetheless. He has good aerials but they aren't quite spammable, and his smashes just can't kill unless Lucario is at high percent. He has combos and semicombos but they are difficult to set up. All in all his arsenal matches up with almost every character well and I think we'll see him winning many tournaments, I don't think he is the best in show.
Olimar - Olimar is really good at beating people up, has good disjointed hitboxes, and takes a thorough effort to beat. I don't think his gimpable recovery is a huge enough issue to go to war over, I feel that he competes at the top level but I don't feel that he can punish well enough to be the very best.
Pikachu – Pika got a major buff from Melee to Brawl, but the two biggest features are his extreme down throw chain grab, and his super buff low lag thunder, which can be effective as low at 70%. Pika also has a good projectile and solid all-around moves that work on every character, as well as Quick Attack Cancels, while not game-breaking, can certainly turn him into the Fox of Brawl in terms of speed. Pika gets his spot here on the basics + the gay; he has a few standard smash style moves that just work and keep working to build damage, he can land KO moves against any character, and then he has that chain grab which completely blows many match-ups out of the water.
Snake – Snake... is weird. He's really good, but at the same time, your ability to predict the battle comes into play very strongly, and I feel that that is what Sakurai intended. Though he is a great camper, Snake is slow, and vulnerable to defeat from some angles, and must be played both cautiously and effectively if you want to survive.
Falco - Falco hits every point; he can camp, combo and semicombo, pressure, space, fight in the air and ground, edge guard and gimp, and has a good grab game from his chain grab, however, his defense is weak. I think we'll see Falco develop into a very strong pick as the game progresses and we learn more about him.
King DeDeDe - Extremely strong, heavy, with a good camp and several good pokes and some great smashes, DeDeDe is a great pick and can certainly win tournaments, but is weak to a few good characters, like Falco, Pit and Lucas. DeDeDe grabs this spot by a hair simply because he's so good against the cream of the crop; Sheik, Meta and Marth.
Toon Link - Great character that is solid in all departments, but I think weight is a factor here, and getting back on the stage is another factor (not recovery, actually getting off the edge and onto the stage without getting swatted off). I think TL has to make a lot of good guesses and hammer in all of the coffin nails to win against many top tier characters, but his match-ups are all strong.
Mid Tier
Pit - I don't think he's as buff as most people think he is, but he can force many characters (including most of the high tiers) to play his game. I think he's honestly weak to solid all-around aerial/punishment characters like Sheik, Mario and Squirtle, and people with good counters to his arrows like Lucas. Everyone else will have to fight for their bread against Pit.
Ice Climbers - I need to see more of what they are capable of, but as of now they have good chaingrabs and combos, and perform against everyone effectively.
Ike – Ike is intensely powerful and has amazing priority, and several speedy moves that can KO at percents that are ********. Spacing with Ike is almost a non-issue; the idea is that positive trades will lead to brutal setups and early KO's. Unfortunately, I don't think he has the tools to win consistently enough to be at the top of the tier list, and is easily counterpicked, but I think against the very best of the best his match-ups improve, because Ike can force many live or die choices against top tiers.
Fox - Fox is a good character, and has a solid pressure game, and can win tournaments by punishing mistakes effectively and applying pressure moves in the right spots, but at the highest level he gets beaten to hell by the best characters that won't let him set up an attack, defend, camp, or recover. When questioning Fox's spot on the tier list, consider how he matches up with Marth, Sheik, and MetaKnight; I don't see consistency here at all, though he can be a great counterpick.
Jigglypuff - Not much different from melee, but without rest combos and with a seriously gimped rest, a big asset was lost, and I think Jiggs takes a major hit there. She can certainly compete with the best, however.
Peach – We haven't seen the last of Peach either. I think the Glide Toss will make her very strong and a viable tournament choice for experts, and though her old FC style is mostly out the window a stylish Peach can still lay it on.
Lucas - Lucas is hard to place, because he does everything well, is difficult to shut-down, and can fight off many characters. He is also an effective aggressive camper with PK fire, can gimp with Psi Magnet and PK Thunder, but overall, I think he has a bag of tricks that great players will be able to overcome with good pressure and solid play. A good comparison would be Mario; Lucas has good anti projectile and anticamper, good aerials, but against some characters, like Diddy, Sheik and Marth, will struggle to do damage or KO. As far as the counterpick Tier list goes, Lucas is #1, but if you're going to main him, be warned that you'll need to master all of his points to compete.
Zero Suit Samus - A good character, but with a weak recovery and a lot of lag on her really good spacers, and her projectile is a little funky but can lead to good setups. A solid choice for great players who like a fast style, but good-to-average players may want to take time to pick up a strong second to deal with their weaknesses.
Yoshi - Yoshi is mega buff! Don't underestimate him! He's got some camping, but mostly he's just SOLID; you have to really be good at smash to be able to consistently beat a good Yoshi. Best dinosaur in the game hands down, but overall doesn't have the tools to beat the far and away best characters.
R.O.B. - Rob is neato! But does he get the job done? The big deciding factor for Rob, I think, is how you effectively you use the dredel, and how good you are at spacing, but otherwise I think R.O.B. just doesn't have it in the offense department.
Kirby - Buffed from last game and definitely someone to be nervous about fighting, but I think if you've really mastered your character and understand Kirby, he's beatable with anyone. I don't think we'll see Kirby winning any major tournaments.
Wolf - Wolf is a strong character, no doubt, and overall one of the best if you are a gay douchehat, but I think he's beatable both on the stage and off the stage (doubly so off stage) by many characters. Great Wolf players will find ways to get around his weaknesses, however, I don't think he pays off as well as many of the characters higher than he is, and I think he'll be getting really ***** if people start overusing him.
Low Tier
Mario - Mario is really good in Brawl, and can beat any strategy with some combination of Cape, F-smash, Backair, Fireballs and juggles, but his problem comes when they start mixing it up in the right ways, making your Mario guess and take damage, and after a while you spend your time donked off the stage at a high percent until you're dead.
Donkey Kong - Good, but has a major issue with projectiles, camping, and lag on those attacks. Much like in Melee, a low tier but masters will continue to excel with him, and a valid tournament choice if he is your best and you know exactly how to handle the top tiers.
Zelda - Zelda is another one of those really good characters that relies entirely too much on landing more hits than the opponent. 5/10 camping, 8/10 power, 4/10 recovery, 5/10 for ingenuity, and good speed where it counts, but it took me a while to place her. Is she better than Mario? I don't think she's significantly better than Wolf or Kirby, but I don't think she's terrible either.
Ness - A good character with a great heart, still has all his tricks from Melee (minus the Yo-Yo glitch of course), and has many answers to the questions of the top tiers, but has yet to measure up to the overall challenge; I mean he can't use the same strategies over and over again to win with consistency, and he can't make most characters answer his attacks if they don't want to.
Link - We all know what Link can do, and those of us who mastered him in the last game found his limitation was that everyone knows exactly what Link can do. THANKS GERM ahem I mean...at the highest, most perfect level of play, he's a match for any character, but positioning and spacing is so important to keep that I just don't think he's feasible to do against good players.
Bottom Tier
Captain Falcon - He's not that fast, and his up-air is still pretty good, and you can plant moves if you are amazing, but I don't think he's that good anymore; he just doesn't get it done like he used to.
Wario - Many of you will be surprised to see Wario down so low, and I'll go ahead and elaborate; Wario won't win any major tournaments. Once you know what he's capable of, I think it's pretty easy to shut him down and beat him up from a fighting standpoint, which is the only one that Wario has. He has a large area for aerial creativity, I think, which is nice, and is fun to play and watch, I just don't feel like he has anything to give me that I can't find elsewhere. If you have questions, find a character above here that Wario can really put the thwomp on, and elaborate.
Bowser - Still pretty low. Another character with potential, but his obesity cannot be cured completely. Again, we see the Bowser strategy rotating between intercepting aerials, using his Up-B to punish from shield, and using the side B to throw off the opponent, but other characters win faster and do it better, and very mobile characters will just beat you to death.
Sonic - Oh man he looks super cool, but his smashes pretty much all suck, except for maybe the F-smash. F-tilt is a good spacer, but overall he is very reliant on his speed and can be shut down. Sonic is good as an all-rounder and a valid tournament choice, but I don't think you can consider beating the best characters 100% of the time playing only Sonic.
Luigi - Luigi really got it bad this game. He's got fire-punch for kills, but major kudos to you if you can beat a really good Diddy or Samus with the green plumber. A good camp is just too tough to break without wavedashing to back you up.
Pokemon Trainer - Well... man, I just don't know what to say about this guy. He's not all there. His game works from an if-you-can-get-this-off standpoint, but from a high level game play standpoint I just don't see it. Ivysaur is the most solid all around due to bullet seed but and related mvoes but is easily gimped and has trouble killing smart players. Squirtle is insanely light but a good counter to a variety of weak-hit reliant characters, like Mario and even Sheik, but Charizard and Ivysaur lack so much in those match-ups; you'll understand when your Lizardon gets Ken Combo'd to hell. It's almost as if you have to play a stock down with PT, it's so hard to overcome the inherent weaknesses of each Pokemon, and the fact that you are forced to switch by death and fatigue just makes the situation too complicated to overcome. Fatigue is a huge issue here; two minutes minus one second per move makes camping stupidly effective.
Ganondorf - Ganondorf has about three tricks up his sleeve, and if you can avoid them, you will win easily and handily with almost every character. Great 'dorfs, in Melee and in Brawl, have always been able to get it done and offer pain on both ends of a choice, but how the hell do you deal with needle camping with this guy? How to you get back to the stage when you get dunked? How exactly do you kill King DeDeDe? Dorf has some major issues and I think he's too easily counter picked to be a valid tournament character.
ThePlantiff
Smash Cadet
My tier list, open to constructive criticism, but not insults.
TOP Tier: (Not in any particular order)
Pit
Snake
Olimar
MK
Marth
Toon Link
High Tier:
Falco
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy
Lucas
Wolf
Fox
King DeDeDe
Pikachu
Middle Tier:
R.O.B
Sheik
Zero suit Samus
Wario
Ice Climbers
Kirby
PT
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Low Tier:
Mario
Zelda
Ness
Ike
Samus
Bowser
Sonic
Peach
Link
Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
DK
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
TOP Tier: (Not in any particular order)
Pit
Snake
Olimar
MK
Marth
Toon Link
High Tier:
Falco
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy
Lucas
Wolf
Fox
King DeDeDe
Pikachu
Middle Tier:
R.O.B
Sheik
Zero suit Samus
Wario
Ice Climbers
Kirby
PT
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Low Tier:
Mario
Zelda
Ness
Ike
Samus
Bowser
Sonic
Peach
Link
Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
DK
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
your very convicing with your list and reasons for being on a certain level i like it and trust me i hate tier list for brawl on a mega level (learned some things)
p.s. listiening to cosic gate firewire....
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Thank you TechnoMonster for the first thought out, attractive looking tier list.
Kudos to you sir.
Kudos to you sir.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Very well thought out, can't say I agree with everything, but at least you put some effort into it unlike most people's lists. I also have to say it reads like a horoscope.
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
I can't believe you quoted my whole post to say that rofl
ThePlantiff
Smash Cadet
Well, that's the purpose of the tier list, to point out in average who has the best matchups.I tend to treat the tear list like I do toilet paper, its good for wiping your *** with and thats about it. Whats its existence for anyway? It serves no practical purpose other than "OMG guys Marth is better than yoshi lolz!"
Just STFU and play whoever you like, thats what I say.
Anyway, my list:
Flaming Homosexual Tier:
Marth
Awesome Haircut Tier:
Ike
Dinosaur Tier:
Yoshi
WTF were they smoking when they added these characters? Tier:
Game and Watch
Wolf
Diddy Kong
ROB
Big mother****ers tier:
Bowser
DK
Ganondorf
DeDeDe
Hottie Tier:
Samus
ZSS
Zelda
OMG NINJAS! Tier:
Shiek
Thanks Nintendo, now I have to deal with horrifying furry fan art sigs at Smash Boards Tier:
Fox
Falco
Never puts out Tier:
Peach
HAHA NO KILL MOVES tier:
Metaknight
Sonic
Mario Bros Tier:
Mario
Luigi
Anal Lube Tier:
Wario
Captain Falcon
Multi-Character Tier:
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Why the hell not? We've already added everyone else! Tier:
Toon Link
Snake
PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE OH GOD SPAMMING THIS IS SO MUCH FUN Tier:
Ness
Lucas
Link Tier:
Link
I forgot to mention these people because I'm too lazy Tier:
Everyone else
Thats the only list you need. Everything else is garbage. :D
You forgot these other tiers, which are statiscally correct.
BIG NOSES Tier:
Olimar
Mario
Luigi
Game & Watch
AWESOME Tier:
Snake
HOTNESS Tier:
Zero Suit Samus
Marth(lol)
Zelda
Peach
EMO Tier:
Lucas
Ike
Reptile Tier:
Yoshi
Bowser
Charizard
Overrepresentation of Franchises Tier:
Wolf
King DeDeDe
Meta Knight
Falco
Fox
Kirby
Ivysaur
Fanservice Tier:
Zero Suit Samus
Sonic
Clone Tier:
Toon Link
Ganondorf
Bishi Tier:
Pit
Marth
Link
Ike
Kawaii Neko-Chan Tier:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Up Until Now Tier:
Ness
Fat Tier:
Wario
Ganondorf
King DeDeDe
DK
Woman? Tier:
Sheik
Samus
Issac who? Tier:
R.O.B
Luigi should not be even close to bottom tier. He should definitely be mid to high. He has gotten nothing but buffs from melle. The only move that was nerfed is his forward air. His recovery is one of the best using the down-b for extra height and his side-b for extra distance + an up b that gets you pretty far. Jab + firepunch combo is still effective against most heavweight characters and Luigi's ability to string together aerial combos is impressive.
In short Luigi is NOT bottom tier!
In short Luigi is NOT bottom tier!
SiSiMeN
Smash Rookie
That may be true but it all depends on who's playing them, and I think a fast character would beat a slow character due to the fact that they can attack more often and keep the larger characters from attacking. The day I get beaten by a bowser or a deedee ill change what I said.
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
i'll play you today probally i will or my friend will use dedede and maybe youll change that....(maybe)
PIMPSLAP
Smash Lord
i get bored easily.....muhaha oops i double posted
stillsickwithit
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2005
- Messages
- 17
in melee tiers were made from tournament play...usually in melee marth, shiek, fox and falco players would win....then coming peach, falcon, ice climbers(chu), jigglypuff and who ever the **** the else.
As tournaments begin accumulating we'll see what characters do the best among others. its going to take sometime, but well know eventually once tournaments like evo start occuring
As tournaments begin accumulating we'll see what characters do the best among others. its going to take sometime, but well know eventually once tournaments like evo start occuring
will388
Smash Cadet
technomonsters tier list is good but some of the placings are questionable
luigi for one, should definately be high tier.. hes VERY agile and basically wrecks the air game.. he practically has NO attack that leaves him open for punishment and he has a great approach for almost everyone in addition to an AMAZING recovery
luigi for one, should definately be high tier.. hes VERY agile and basically wrecks the air game.. he practically has NO attack that leaves him open for punishment and he has a great approach for almost everyone in addition to an AMAZING recovery
omegablackmage
Certified Lion Rider
techno, i'll at least thank you for putting up reasons for why you think characters are where.
i'd have to say that i disagree with a few characters, namely luigi, wario, pkmn trainer, samus, rob, lucas, sheik, pika, and probably toon link.
luigi - def has a wall of pain, up b kills very early, great recovery, good power. he's awkward to use at first, but has some solid combos, low lag, and good spacing, def high tier material at least.
wario - very strong, excellent air maneuverability, good recovery, aerial grab, good edgeguarding, good combos/sheild pressure. i think he's high for sure
pkmn trainer - maybe you haven't played him enough, but all of his pkmn are extremely useful in their own way. squirtle is extremely good at racking up dmg with aerials, and dthrow/off stage kills are key. ivysaur has so much range he doesn't know what to do with it. the back air is nigh impossible to get through, bullet seed racks up a lot of dmg, up b isn't really gimped with the leaf attack, really strong character. charizard looks bad on paper, but the fsmash has a ton of range, rocksmash and flame can rack up some serious dmg, great killer. def high tier material.
rob - his offstage edgeguarding is pretty unparalleled. he can go higher/lower/farther out than just about every character. learning to chain his fairs together is pretty essential to his kill game. other than that his ground game is sick, dsmash is gotta be one of the fastest smashes in the game. he has great chains with his dash attack and ftilt. good projectiles. upper if not top material.
samus - i think you may have overratted her grapple/projectile game. yeah their pretty nice, and coupled with the up b she can rack up some serious dmg, but when you consider how bad she is at killing, she starts to look less and less appetizing. a good character for sure, not top tier material. once people are better at air dodging you'll see her not doing as well i think.
lucas - higher than mid tier. he's got a lot of power and speed, recovery can't be gimped so easily as ness's can. good projectile thats quick. nice combos, not mid tier.
pika - i think you've overrated him as well. character just can't kill that well. yeah his up b is pretty sick, but without the tail spike like in the last game, he's useless off the stage. ranged hit from the fsmash doesn't even kill anymore, so basically you have to kill everyone off the top, which limits his game a bit. dsmash can be very easily di'd out of, so unless your good with upsmashes, have a fun time setting up for a thunder. i'd say a mid tier character, maaaaybe high
toon link - lots of good quick projectiles to play a camping game that even those good at dodging will have a hard time with. all moves have a lot of priority and are quick. great recovery and combo potential. top tier for sure
sheik - im not going to nitpick too much here, but she definitely isn't the best character in the game. lack of a good projectile/approach game seems to hurt the most. she's probably still an upper tier character, just not the best, nothing seems to stand out as amazing but we'll see
again thanks for posting why you have the characters where they are, and for putting wolf mid tier at least someone else can see he's nothing special
i'd have to say that i disagree with a few characters, namely luigi, wario, pkmn trainer, samus, rob, lucas, sheik, pika, and probably toon link.
luigi - def has a wall of pain, up b kills very early, great recovery, good power. he's awkward to use at first, but has some solid combos, low lag, and good spacing, def high tier material at least.
wario - very strong, excellent air maneuverability, good recovery, aerial grab, good edgeguarding, good combos/sheild pressure. i think he's high for sure
pkmn trainer - maybe you haven't played him enough, but all of his pkmn are extremely useful in their own way. squirtle is extremely good at racking up dmg with aerials, and dthrow/off stage kills are key. ivysaur has so much range he doesn't know what to do with it. the back air is nigh impossible to get through, bullet seed racks up a lot of dmg, up b isn't really gimped with the leaf attack, really strong character. charizard looks bad on paper, but the fsmash has a ton of range, rocksmash and flame can rack up some serious dmg, great killer. def high tier material.
rob - his offstage edgeguarding is pretty unparalleled. he can go higher/lower/farther out than just about every character. learning to chain his fairs together is pretty essential to his kill game. other than that his ground game is sick, dsmash is gotta be one of the fastest smashes in the game. he has great chains with his dash attack and ftilt. good projectiles. upper if not top material.
samus - i think you may have overratted her grapple/projectile game. yeah their pretty nice, and coupled with the up b she can rack up some serious dmg, but when you consider how bad she is at killing, she starts to look less and less appetizing. a good character for sure, not top tier material. once people are better at air dodging you'll see her not doing as well i think.
lucas - higher than mid tier. he's got a lot of power and speed, recovery can't be gimped so easily as ness's can. good projectile thats quick. nice combos, not mid tier.
pika - i think you've overrated him as well. character just can't kill that well. yeah his up b is pretty sick, but without the tail spike like in the last game, he's useless off the stage. ranged hit from the fsmash doesn't even kill anymore, so basically you have to kill everyone off the top, which limits his game a bit. dsmash can be very easily di'd out of, so unless your good with upsmashes, have a fun time setting up for a thunder. i'd say a mid tier character, maaaaybe high
toon link - lots of good quick projectiles to play a camping game that even those good at dodging will have a hard time with. all moves have a lot of priority and are quick. great recovery and combo potential. top tier for sure
sheik - im not going to nitpick too much here, but she definitely isn't the best character in the game. lack of a good projectile/approach game seems to hurt the most. she's probably still an upper tier character, just not the best, nothing seems to stand out as amazing but we'll see
again thanks for posting why you have the characters where they are, and for putting wolf mid tier at least someone else can see he's nothing special
PieM4ster
Smash Rookie
Please Delete, posted by accident.
THE NERFS!
Link: cant remember the reason but all the sudden he sucks more now then last game
Ganondorf: Hes slower without a good damage compensation (warlock punch went from 30% to 33% woo whoo -.-)
Shiek: The change time maybe not let you get hit but you cant switch off to zelda as fast to recover from a fall and if you play against someone good you will prolly get grabbed and personally i dont like that her running attack doesnt knock straight up any more.
Mario: I think hes weaker or something but hell if i can remember
Falco: Personally i think he was better when he was more like fox
Other nerfs- Characters who have "clones" but the old characters suck compared to their new clones (toon link over link)
Link: cant remember the reason but all the sudden he sucks more now then last game
Ganondorf: Hes slower without a good damage compensation (warlock punch went from 30% to 33% woo whoo -.-)
Shiek: The change time maybe not let you get hit but you cant switch off to zelda as fast to recover from a fall and if you play against someone good you will prolly get grabbed and personally i dont like that her running attack doesnt knock straight up any more.
Mario: I think hes weaker or something but hell if i can remember
Falco: Personally i think he was better when he was more like fox
Other nerfs- Characters who have "clones" but the old characters suck compared to their new clones (toon link over link)
GPLegend777
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 13
You can't forget about Captain Falcon...
JusticeWillPrevail
Smash Cadet
Ok I get Lucas, but Ike emo? Why the hell is Ike emo? I don't remember anything from the games to make him emo.
omegablackmage
Certified Lion Rider
ground game for wario isn't too bad, he can cancel his dash attacks with up smashes, which makes it more difficult to punish. he has a good fsmash and ftilt, both are strong and pretty quick, the fmash having super armor frames. upsmash/tilt and dsmash/tilt are ok, a little situational but not bad moves.
b moves aren't that bad, actually pretty decent. motor bike is pretty good for providing distractions on the stage and is great for recovery. Up b looks bad by itself but you can actually abuse people pressuring your sheild with it like samus does. The eat move he has is pretty ridiculous, any aerial grab you get in these games is a great addition to a characters moveset to eat sheild campers, does pretty good dmg too. Fart is well, ya it takes a while to charge but thats a pretty good kill move right there and you get more recovery.
aerials are pretty sick. short hopped dair pretty much busts sheilds unpunished because of his aerial di. fair is ridiculous off the stage, you can get like 5 of those out and still recover, not to mention you can poke at sheilds with it. bair isn't the best but its pretty strong and you can use it w/o getting punished. upair is just amazing for kills and nair has two hits to it, up until the move finishes.
iunno, overall i think wario is a decent character, i don't know why people think he's bad. im not arguing top tier here, just that he's above mid for sure.
b moves aren't that bad, actually pretty decent. motor bike is pretty good for providing distractions on the stage and is great for recovery. Up b looks bad by itself but you can actually abuse people pressuring your sheild with it like samus does. The eat move he has is pretty ridiculous, any aerial grab you get in these games is a great addition to a characters moveset to eat sheild campers, does pretty good dmg too. Fart is well, ya it takes a while to charge but thats a pretty good kill move right there and you get more recovery.
aerials are pretty sick. short hopped dair pretty much busts sheilds unpunished because of his aerial di. fair is ridiculous off the stage, you can get like 5 of those out and still recover, not to mention you can poke at sheilds with it. bair isn't the best but its pretty strong and you can use it w/o getting punished. upair is just amazing for kills and nair has two hits to it, up until the move finishes.
iunno, overall i think wario is a decent character, i don't know why people think he's bad. im not arguing top tier here, just that he's above mid for sure.
GPLegend777
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 13
A lot of falcon players left him because he got nerfed. I still use him though, he's not as bad as people say he is. Compared to melee he is deffinitaly not as good. Just go to the falcon board to hear all of the complaints...
GPLegend777
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 13
Delete please, accidentally posted twice.
5ive
Smash Champion
Here's my Tier List:
Top
Marth
Pit
Toon Link
High
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Metaknight
Fox
Falco
Pokemon Trainer
Olimar
King DeDeDe
Middle Tier
Pikachu
Sheik
Ike
R.OB.
Luigi
Wario
Lucario
Kirby
Mario
Lucas
Snake
Samus
Mr. Game and Watch
Low
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Peach
Link
Ness
Zero Suit Samus
Jigglypuff
Bowser
Sonic
Bottom Tier
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Top
Marth
Pit
Toon Link
High
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Metaknight
Fox
Falco
Pokemon Trainer
Olimar
King DeDeDe
Middle Tier
Pikachu
Sheik
Ike
R.OB.
Luigi
Wario
Lucario
Kirby
Mario
Lucas
Snake
Samus
Mr. Game and Watch
Low
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Peach
Link
Ness
Zero Suit Samus
Jigglypuff
Bowser
Sonic
Bottom Tier
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Ganondorf
SuperSmasher962
Smash Cadet
Pokemon Trainer is not high tier and Ice climber are probably mid tier. other than that it looks ok maybe jiggs to mid tier as well and lucas to high
Ok ok wtf pit... the pick up and anybody can play with i mean if u think top tier needs someone who can be played with virtually no skill
- Status