Of all the deconfirmed characters, whose fanbases have suffered the most in waiting for their character's first appearance in Smash?

[PF9]

In the buildup to Ultimate, a number of characters have been deconfirmed through being shown as Assist Trophies or Poke Ball summons.

Some of the deconfirmed characters have dedicated fanbases who were heartbroken to see them in this fashion, having waited a long time to see them playable, in the same fashion a number of sport team fanbases have waited a long time to see their teams win a title (with many of these droughts still intact as of 2018, I should know I'm a fan of some of these teams like the Cleveland Indians and Notre Dame football).

Of the deconfirmed characters thus far, whose fanbases do you think have suffered the most in waiting for their character's first playable appearance in the series?

To me, I say it's a tie between Krystal and Waluigi. They have been both highly requested characters. Krystal placed high on the Smash Ballot as far as I know, and to see her as an AT was a stab in the back to her fans. As far as Waluigi, many fans complained to Sakurai on Twitter about his status as an AT this time around.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Please don't make a pity party thread.

 

[Fell God]

Waluigi haha

Stop acting like ur better than everyone else Swamp Sensei

 

[lizard1929]

How about a list of, "Which franchise has had the most disconfirmations?"

 

[Idon]

Who do you think I'd say?

Hint hint: that flashy gif over in my signature.

 

[Tollhouse]

Please don't make a pity party thread.

They have to grieve somewhere. Haha

I'd say Waluigi by far.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well, the Waluigi fans got annoying after he was deconfirmed. And I was really hoping Krystal could have been the fourth Star Fox rep.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The only answer is that no one has suffered. You don't even know how hypothetical new characters would play so it's hard to imagine being a serious Smash fan who is also attached on that kind of a serious level to characters whom you only hoped would appear. Even if you were so dedicated to the mere idea of a character that you support them above all else and would play them no matter what, it's reasonably likely that your favorite character wouldn't have a playstyle that suits you well and, if you insisted on trying to main them anyway, you'd actually enjoy the game less than you would if they weren't included at all so in that way your favorite being excluded is a blessing in disguise as it saves you from yourself.

 

[Benjakshin]

Also, those waluigi fans aren't really real. It's all phoney BS.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'd put forward us Toad fans. Some of us have been patiently waiting since Smash 64 for a character which is by no means an obscure unpopular Nintendo character. Hell, he placed high on Sakurai's initial Smash 64 request poll making it easily into the top 15.

Ridley? Last game; stage hazard. This time? Promoted to playable.
K. Rool? Last game; Mii costume and krew were used in Smash Run. This time? Promoted to playable.
Dark Samus? Last game; assist trophy and Samus alt palette. This time? Promoted to playable.
Chrom? Last game; Final Smash and Mii outfit. This time? Promoted to playable.
Toad? Last game; a kind of crappy counter and Mii outfit. This time? Promoted to being a grab, pummel and throw in Peach's moveset as well as said crappy counter.

We're the only ones who got our most wanted promoted to something equally unsatisfying as far as I can recall in Ultimate, although Ridley fans definitely had a similar thing in Sm4sh.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Toad fans, easily. Waluigi's fanbase wasn't really that dedicated until Ultimate, before then he was very rarely anyone's most wanted and usually just somewhere in their top 10, and Krystal's fanbase has waned significantly over the years, she has in no way been expected to be playable since Brawl. Toad is like the one constant throughout Smash speculation history that always has decent support, always seems fairly likely, but then just doesn't get in, and unlike the likes of Ridley and Geno has never really been addressed by Sakurai, so no one really knows why either.

 

[Admiral Bobbery]

Toad and Waluigi are both solid and obvious choices that I would probably say. But for the sake of originality I'll say Bomberman. That's like a franchise with no reps, and a decent fanbase(y'know he's known). And in the biggest smash game yet in which "Everyone is here" he got the assist trophy treatment. Ouch.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Toad fans without a doubt

 

[ChronoBound]

Toad fans, easily. Waluigi's fanbase wasn't really that dedicated until Ultimate, before then he was very rarely anyone's most wanted and usually just somewhere in their top 10, and Krystal's fanbase has waned significantly over the years, she has in no way been expected to be playable since Brawl. Toad is like the one constant throughout Smash speculation history that always has decent support, always seems fairly likely, but then just doesn't get in, and unlike the likes of Ridley and Geno has never really been addressed by Sakurai, so no one really knows why either.

This is by far the best answer this thread will see. Toad has been a highly demanded character even since the first installment's release. Back then the conventional wisdom was, "Toad will get in once we get Bowser, Peach, and maybe Wario. He definitely deserves to be in, but not in before those two or three."

In the Japanese pre-Melee poll, Toad actually ended up in the Top 10, but Bowser, Peach, and Wario all did better than him. Sakurai tried to satisfy Toad fans too by incorporating him into Peach's moveset, but unknowingly cursed him to forever being non-playable in Smash Bros., despite returning to prominence in the mainline Super Mario series.

Toad (along with Dixie Kong) is the only Nintendo All-Star left to include in the Smash Bros. series as a playable character. He has been a playable character in even the mainline Super Mario series for going on 30 years now. He has also been the protagonist of two spinoff titles (Wario's Woods and Captain Toad).

Toad fans had to watch characters created years after Toad get in before him. Particularly Toad fans were irked by Rosalina's inclusion who only had an important role in a single mainline Super Mario title, a cameo/background in another, and an unlockable playable character role in another (they were mostly cool with Bowser Jr. seeing as the character had build up an impressive resume of being the support villain in multiple mainline Super Mario games).

Even now Toad fans have to watch the likes of Geno (a character who was only a support character in a single game over the last 20 years) and Waluigi (a character who still only appears in spinoff titles despite even Toadette having managed to break free of this) get much more namedropping and shouting than a character that has been around longer than most of the present Smash Bros. roster.

Toad (or his Captain variant) likely will never be made playable, all due to one little compromise made over 17 years ago (being made part of Peach's moveset). Both Geno and Waluigi will likely see playable status before Toad because you not only need a fanbase, but you need a LOUD fanbase.

Its a shame because this game has given a second chance to many characters whom seem like they might never make it in (Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus, Chrom, and Daisy), but Toad himself only got an upgraded role as part of Peach's moveset, and the Captain variant being only relegated to a NPC background role.

Toad might very well end up being the only Nintendo All-Star to never make it playable status ever in the Smash Bros. series.

 

[Luigifan18]

I'm still rather pissed about Bomberman and Krystal being deconfirmed.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Ashley, Krystal or Waluigi...

Waluigi fans are definitely the most vocal about the deconfirmation.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The only answer is that no one has suffered. You don't even know how hypothetical new characters would play so it's hard to imagine being a serious Smash fan who is also attached on that kind of a serious level to characters whom you only hoped would appear. Even if you were so dedicated to the mere idea of a character that you support them above all else and would play them no matter what, it's reasonably likely that your favorite character wouldn't have a playstyle that suits you well and, if you insisted on trying to main them anyway, you'd actually enjoy the game less than you would if they weren't included at all so in that way your favorite being excluded is a blessing in disguise as it saves you from yourself.

I get what you're saying, but for a lot of us our experience with Smash is greatly enhanced if we're able to play as our favorite video game characters. As a huge Nintendo fan it's difficult for me to main someone who I have no prior experiences with or don't care for regardless of how much I enjoy their moveset, because there are plenty of characters on the roster who I do love outside of Smash, and succeeding with them gives me a lot more satisfaction than otherwise, and it's also something I can use to drive myself to become a better player. Like, there are a lot of characters I enjoy just fine, like Fox for example, but I'd never be able to be as good with him as I am with an objectively worse character like Jigglypuff, because I just wouldn't be able to motivate myself in the same way.

I spent well over a decade supporting Ridley as he's my favorite Nintendo character, and throughout all of it I always knew there was a very real chance that I wouldn't even like to play as him, I acknowledged that from start to end. That didn't stop me from wanting him as much as I did though, if that was something that shied people away from supporting characters we wouldn't even have Smash speculation at all, just having the chance to have Ridley in the game and him potentially being a character I'd love to play was enough to bring me to vouch for his inclusion on a daily basis for three seperate games. Luckily it does look like his playstyle is right up my alley, of course I can't know it for sure until I get my hands on him, but that's not really the point anyways, because even if he had some wacky gimmick that'd make me hate his playstyle I'd never have regret putting so much time into supporting him, that I'm given even a small chance of enjoying playing as my favorite Nintendo character is enough.

I'd also argue that with how well they tend to capture a character's personality in its moveset there's a higher chance of you enjoying a character who you already like. This is not always the case of course, there are characters that I like in their own series that I'm absolutely awful with in Smash, and some movesets do surprise, but I've found that more often than not my opinion of a character before they get into Smash tends to stick, for better and worse.

Then there's also the fact that not everyone plays the game in a competitive manner like we do, so for them a lot of the things they might not like about a character's playstyle will be masked by the chaos that other modes or FFAs bring with them.

Suffer is a very strong word though, nobody actually suffers when we're talking about a video game, but it does still suck seeing something you might have wanted really badly get deconfirmed.

 

[SmashShadow]

Toad, I remember people trying to spread some crazy made up method to unlock him in Melee. Then probably Waluigi just because he didn't gain any traction until Smash Wii U and even then he was kinda down the list.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Wario fans in general, until further notice. Still no sign of Syrup, Ashley remains an AT, and no other Wario-related characters so far, Ware or otherwise, so Wario remains wah-lone. Sucks not having Bomberman playable, either.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well in terms of long term waiting, the furthest we can go back in Melee when Banjo missed out and then Rare sold it's soul to the devil so that chance became near zero.

Now the devil has fallen on hard times and may be willing to co-operate.

In terms of being forgotten, Isaac and for a while, Krystal.

And in terms of "Oh no, not again", Waluigi and Lyn, followed by Ashley.

I'm contractually obliged to talk about Gardevoir but it hasn't been a realistic hope for years so the only suffering is current due to a lack of Pokeball sighting.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ashley likely got hit real hard after making that brief appearance during the Smash Direct. It's also rather sad, since there aren't too many WarioWare characters who could realistically work as fighters; Kat & Ana could work, but they'll most likely get the Assist Trophy treatment again.

 

[nirvanafan]

I have got to agree that toad has been probably the most iconic Nintendo character not in for a while. Probably even tougher to swallow with Rosalina getting in too.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well, you can't expect everyone from Nintendo to get in. We're lucky we have all the veterans here for Ultimate, but it's hard for Sakurai to sort through the most wanted newcomers.

 

[ExitWound]

This is a highly unlikely wish but my top pick for smash has always been rareware's James Bond. He did have an important history with Nintendo, goldeneye being a killer app and all. With Snake and Bayonetta's inclusion (the realistic weapons excuse doesn't apply), Dracula from castlevania making an appearance (said character is adapted from a novel, like Bond), the GE motion sensor bombs appearing in past smashes and Nintendo and Microsoft warming up to each other, it doesn't seem impossible especially if they go with a unique character design for him to avoid paying pierce brosnan. If Banjo and Kazooie get in it would make that dream look even more optimistic. It'll probably never happen but if he were ever announced I'd buy 10 switches.

 

[AIM0001]

Bomberman, Waluigi, and Geno if he doesn’t get added in Ultimate come to mind.

Ridley and King K. Rool fans like myself used to be on the top of this list. But no more!

 

[Fell God]

Bomberman, Waluigi, and Geno if he doesn’t get added in Ultimate come to mind.

Ridley and King K. Rool fans like myself used to be on the top of this list. But no more!

One group stops suffering...another inherits it...truly dark are the days of speculation...

 

[MrRoidley]

About Toad: if you count Captain Toad, he isn't deconfirmed per se (although admittedly his chances outside DLC look grim) so I won't count him

So the answer to me is definitely Bomberman. From what I can remember, he has been really supported since Brawl.
Waluigi, Lyn and Isaac too I guess, for the same reason

 

[Putuk]

Probably just fans of the Zelda series. We've gotten Link, Zelda and Ganon or some variation of them, when the series features a number of potential newcomers.

 

[lordvaati]

Lip fans have it rough since her getting in at least as an AT would be the closest thing Nintendo has done to acknowledge her existence outside Japan.

Well, and I guess that Animal Crossing costume.

 

[The_Killah29]

Me as a Kalas fan. lol

 

[PlasmWraith]

Not a huge fanbase, but as a Louie fan, we went from having a costume based on him in Brawl to that being cut in Sm4sh to make room for Alph. Louie was demoted from having a costume based on him to nothing, HOW DO YOU EVEN DO THAT? Still dreaming for that echo fighter.

 

[SmashBro99]

Probably just fans of the Zelda series. We've gotten Link, Zelda and Ganon or some variation of them, when the series features a number of potential newcomers.

This^

and Waluigi.

 

[staindgrey]

Fire Emblem fans--

wait for it

--who don't like the modern 3DS games. With both Chrom and Lucina as echoes, and the still recent additions from Smash 4 (Robin, Corrin and the return of Roy from Melee), the chances of seeing any new classic FE character, such as Micaiah, Hector, Lyn, Caeda, Tiki, Black Knight, or even Alm or Celica, dwindles, all while other Smash fans claim over and over that there are too many Fire Emblem characters.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Anyone who's wanted a character who should rightfully be in the game by now, like Toad, an Advance Wars rep, Chibi-Robo, etc.

 

[Ura]

Anyone who's wanted a character who should rightfully be in the game by now

Advance Wars rep

Ayy,,,

 

[Diddy Kong]

I say Lyn.

Because she's actually a character who we all know has massive popularity. She got a whole lot of love in Heroes, and later appeared in Warriors as well. That's two roles that give her at least something towards her fan base, which Nintendo and Intelligent Systems knows is there.

That's far more than the likes of Waluigi, or Krystal. Krystal is probably more absent now than King K.Rool was. And her franchise is bound to remake SF64 over and over again.

Waluigi has had it bad, but with no character growth ever since his debut, what's more to expect? Daisy at least made for a quick Echo. Waluigi just IS NOT on the level of popularity as Ridley, K.Rool, Inkling or Simon Belmont. I argue that even Chrom and Dark Samus enjoyed more support.

Anyway, I say Lyn because of reasons mentioned above.

 

[staindgrey]

That's far more than the likes of Waluigi, or Krystal. Krystal is probably more absent now than King K.Rool was. And her franchise is bound to remake SF64 over and over again.

Not that I'm particularly a fan of Krystal being included, but she has more recent relevancy than K. Rool. She appeared in Adventures, Command and Assault as a prominent character; Zero is the only game in the series, other than the 3DS remake, to not star her since she first appeared.

K. Rool is more prominent in the DK franchise because he was the big bad, being to DK what Bowser is to Mario, but Krystal has actually had three main game appearances since the last time K. Rool appeared in a DK game.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Ayy,,,

Yeah. It's just kind of ridiculous that Intelligent Systems has 7 characters in the game and they're all from Fire Emblem. No Advance Wars, no Paper Mario, no WarioWare (besides Wario who was obviously created by Nintendo). Just kind of weird.

 

[staindgrey]

Yeah. It's just kind of ridiculous that Intelligent Systems has 7 characters in the game and they're all from Fire Emblem. No Advance Wars, no Paper Mario, no WarioWare (besides Wario who was obviously created by Nintendo). Just kind of weird.

Paper Mario and WarioWare are notable exclusions that I still don't understand. Particularly since they already have the general animation and physics in place for Paper Mario by semi-cloning Mr. G&W.

But as much as I adore Advance Wars, the series hasn't been relevant since its underselling final title on the DS, and its support in Japan is minor in comparison to the US. Unless there's a large fanbase push like what K. Rool and Ridley received, there's not a ton of motivation to put a character in-- particularly since he or she would need to be Captain Falcon'd and have a moveseat made out of thin air. There are far easier-to-make candidates with more active fanfare.

 

[Ura]

Yeah. It's just kind of ridiculous that Intelligent Systems has 7 characters in the game and they're all from Fire Emblem. No Advance Wars, no Paper Mario, no WarioWare (besides Wario who was obviously created by Nintendo). Just kind of weird.

Advance Wars, IMO is the most egregious omission from that list given how much history it has on Nintendo systems and it being the last long-running series not in Smash. Brawl was the perfect time for Andy to be included. Dual Strike launched around the same time the roster was decided and Wars was still popular in the West.

Paper Mario and WarioWare are notable exclusions that I still don't understand. Particularly since they already have the general animation and physics in place for Paper Mario by semi-cloning Mr. G&W.

But as much as I adore Advance Wars, the series hasn't been relevant since its underselling final title on the DS, and its support in Japan is minor in comparison to the US. Unless there's a large fanbase push like what K. Rool and Ridley received, there's not a ton of motivation to put a character in-- particularly since he or she would need to be Captain Falcon'd and have a moveseat made out of thin air. There are far easier-to-make candidates with more active fanfare.

Relevancy is hardly much of a blackmark especially with Smash Ultimate. You can cite AW's popularity not being as substantial as the heavy hitters of the Ballot but it still has a robust backing especially for a series that's been out for so long. I also believe Andy getting in to Smash Ultimate would be more so for the 30th anniversary of Famicom Wars than him being high up on the Ballot.

As for the moveset potential, that's not a tough task to do. Andy has a ready made moveset for him with all the different units from Advance Wars. And then he has unique wrench attacks to use similar to how Falcon fights despite never being shown doing that.