occasionally useful set-up?

[J4pu]

Jab combo > fsmash
reasoning: most people expect you to jab once or twice so they stay in your face and try to retaliate, so just holding jab combo out there until they realize you aren't going to stop frustrates them and makes them impatient. Then most people try to attack you immediately after they DI out of jab combo, or they shield, Fsmash has terrific range and Jab combo auto spaces it for you so that as soon as they get out of the jab combo they can't reach you but you can reach them.

what normally happens: Jab combo, they get out, they immediately F/Dsmash expecting you to run forward into it, their attack whiffs, and your Fsmash hits them in their cooldown.
OR
Jab combo, they get out, they shield, you hit their shield with a well spaced Fsmash, minimal punishment can occur.

obviously not a good idea against some characters, we don't Jab marth, jab comboing jiggly is a bad idea, lucas has an amazing Dsmash that will beat you every time, etc.

anyway I found this out recently and thought I should share since it was unexpected it works so well (at least for me).
good players won't jump into the **** lol, it was probably just my opponents being bad.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

After reading this what comes to my mind is that Falco's Fsmash comes out on frame 18(i think?) against a smart opponent this wouldn't happen, the Falco would get punished by fast attacks like Luigi's Nair or Zamus jab. Fsmash is too slow.

 

[J4pu]

that's the beautiful thing, this attack normally hits in the cooldown after they whiff their attack.
It isn't meant to be used every time by any means, mix it up with gatling combo out of jab combo and dash/boost pivot grab out of jab combo.

the jab combo autospaces it for you so that you won't be punished too badly if they do shield it.

 

[Denzi]

Yeah, I used to use this on CPUs (lol), but whenever I actually tried it vs a human, it never seemed to go through. Good as a surprise I guess, definately shouldn't be used very often.

 

[J4pu]

really? maybe my opponents are just really impatient, or maybe it's because I've conditioned them to expect gatling combo out of jab combo, because they always try to hit me directly after, and that attack misses if I just stand there and Fsmash.

it's just worked really well for me lately, which I honestly did not expect it to, so I thought I'd share the info.

 

[Shaya]

A smarter/more patient player would never put themself within risk after getting out of a jab combo with a move that inappropriately spaced will not hit.

i.e. If you jab combo me, I'm not going to fsmash you when I know it isn't going to reach.

A smarter player who knows the matchup/their own character won't be falling for this. Most players will often only throw out a LOW COOLDOWN poke that can be followed up in the same way you describe Falco's jab. A Mario will short hop retreating fireball; a Metaknight will dtilt, etc etc.

Alluring readers by the phrase "True combo" is really deceptive... This is nothing more than a 'mindgame', perhaps used on a rare basis as a mix up. I know I have jabbed to fsmash before... especially at the ledge.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

I think you should be able to condition them to do something dumb like Japu said. Using Shaya's example, if you jab combo someone and see that they're going to try to poke, you can do Jab combo > reflector a few times. Afterward, if you see that they're starting to spot dodge the reflector follow up the jab combo with an Fsmash instead. I wouldn't say that this is "ridiculously unlikely" because I've seen it happen on multiple occasions before; but it does require setting up and conditioning to do.

I found some people like to try to DI up and behind me when I get them into the jab combo. Do you think a Fsmash can hit them with the back end since it comes out sooner? Or maybe dash forward and Fsmash behind is an option.

 

[J4pu]

on the few occasions somebody has DI'ed behind me I've found it pretty easy to punish them because it's obvious what they want to do, they're taking extra hits from the jab in order to try and get a hit on you, depending on the character you should either shield the attack then punish or just attack them first.

I don't think Fsmashing the wrong way is a particularly good idea, but it might work.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Maybe even throw in a charged fsmash. That always throws off timings, but normally isn't safe if you do not predict correctly, but this seems like a pretty decent set up idea for a charged fsmash.

 

[Vlade]

I've used this a few times as a mix-up. You can see that in my videos.

Not worth the risk if you're at high % though.

 

[p8nted]

If your opponent is too focused on trying to QCDI out of the AAA combo, this will almost always hit them . But it really only works once or sometimes twice before they catch on.

 

[J4pu]

very true, then you have conditioned them to shield and you can dash grab/dash> pivot boost grab out of jab combo instead.