Oasis Mafia - Over!

[BoomFrog]

Actually, bump LaserGuy above z25. He could have given a much more half hearted explanation of my style and left me to get lynched. The indirect defense if be was townie.

ranmaru ... sigh. I'll dig up the evidence for the D1 wiisp read later.

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar Who is scum to you today?

I'm much less sure about UP, I'm more sus of BF but want to wait to see if he brings up some specific points. I want to see Pokechu's reads. Wiisp is probably town.
Work started for me, I'll have more time in the evening,

 

[ranmaru]

I'm glad to see Wisp efforting this phase. I'm curious about scumreads from Pokechu , Jackrito and Z25 today. Lot's of discussion, not enough voting.

 

[ranmaru]

LaserGuy Who's scum today?

 

[Wiisp]

ranmaru
I really dislike the way you talk about your wolf reads
But hey at least we can agree on Boom

I think your read of Maven is weird... I've seen it happen, I need more concrete reasons

 

[Jackrito]

I'm glad to see Wisp efforting this phase. I'm curious about scumreads from Pokechu , Jackrito and Z25 today. Lot's of discussion, not enough voting.

I still see Laser and Boom as my top picks today. They is potential in the Maven slot, seeing what Pokechu does will make that a lot more clear.

UP I.m still a bit iffy on I feel a need to do a full review of them since I feel they just have a scummy style and I need to deep read to see their real intent, my gut view is town though like I had them near the start of day one. I think that a scum would try to adapt more and especially not carry on with the reads with no real explaining he just seems a bit stubborn.

I want to also review Sabrar as well, I was scum reading them at first, but that changed once they went more agrro which I have a habit of townreading, they took a lot of stances so on relook I feel that it will become clear if those stance show clear town progression or reactive scum to suit the situation.

I feel semi confident on Wisp,he seems a bit more proactive today, he's not like himself, but I know he is attempting a more sit back approach, you have filled his void of agrro town well also. I feel his doubts on me are real also, if scum I feel that he jumps on me more this game and forces the issue. He knows me well and I never scum read him before. So I feel that reaction is a true one of confusion rather then worry or potential anger. His ever changeing stance on Ninja is something I feel he does not do as scum also.

As Said before Z25 I still like and he would properly go in my top 3 with you and Wisp, they are some issues, but never really got a scum vibe off this game, in token he was giving one off a lot more and his stances bothered me. LIke I said earlier though I want to full review him over the next couple of days.

 

[ranmaru]

Talk to me more about Laser. What do you dislike there?

 

[BoomFrog]

It is absolutely wild to me that you guys are giving UP a pass for "being confident". Like, the dude has shown zero actual content. His reads list is unjustified which let's the reader full in the blank with what they think could explain it. And when he's called out on something weird he has just said "I don't remember" or "I've updated since then" or "it's a gut read". All his energy is put in defense. And without even giving a reason for missing the D1 lynch he's already excused. This is classic active lurking.

Just what the actual ****? You guys say this is different then how he played as scum before, but people try new things. Especially, when they end up scum a bunch of times in a row, it seems pretty reasonable that he'd try out a "**** it all" confident attitude and just mess around. Can anyone point out a single place he's shown town intent this game?

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm more sus of BF but want to wait to see if he brings up some specific points.

I don't have much loaded in the cannon so you might as well bring these points up and ask me why I didn't. Fair is fair.

 

[Jackrito]

Talk to me more about Laser. What do you dislike there?

I dislike how everything they does feels calculated, they always come in with one big decent post to get people off their back, I have seen very real time interactions with people, this worries me because some people find it hard to do more casual talk as scum, so just spend time on thier posts to make it sound right which is how I feel about him. My next issue is how little impact they have, I was one of their top scum reads because of my reaction to their gambit with Wisp, but they never did anything with it just kept calling me out especially. If they did that gambit as a reaction test why have they done nothing with the results. It's not like I was not a target to push since you and others were.

My view on why they never pushed me is because they don't want any real attention and just let the game pass by while we all eat each other alive. If they are scum this points to they have a teammate who can control the narrative to keep heat off them, Or they have little confidence as scum in general, This is all off he top of my head once I have time to review game I can build on this. Laser has always being in my top scum apart from my last readlist where they went out a bit because of how bad others looked that has changed now.

 

[Sabrar]

I don't have much loaded in the cannon so you might as well bring these points up and ask me why I didn't. Fair is fair.

Just to be clear on something, based on your most recent posts. You're scum-reading both UP and myself, correct?

 

[ranmaru]

Jackrito What do you think of my point that Laser hadn't bothered to discuss the Boom v Sabrar interaction?

 

[Wiisp]

I mean BoomFrog
you shade on UP, probably always make you a wolf
if not just his partner as well

 

[ranmaru]

Wiisp What do you dislike about my laser scum read?

 

[Jackrito]

Jackrito What do you think of my point that Laser hadn't bothered to discuss the Boom v Sabrar interaction?

I think that it is a decent point espically if he does have meta on them, I have limited meta exp with most here but still using what little I have. Most of my read on Wisp is build off how I know him. So Laser lack of input on this points to not wanting to get involved and see what happens.

 

[Wiisp]

Laser is scum for doing a gambit that gives him a good read, and a good appearance, and then being more lack luster than Jack. It was also odd to see Laser not comment on Sabrar v Boom, which I feel would be important for him to do so since he should have meta on Sabrar and Boom. There's no real other posts I can point to that reveals Laser as scum. It's simply that Laser's motivations lean toward a scum motivation of 'appearing town' without doing much else to progress town. Laser's #1231 also gives me the feeling that he seems to not have an un-informed feeling, not trying to sort or do anything, sort of just sitting there waiting for the flip.

the first part is stupid imo, don't think wolves play like that
cause its like 4d chess where you have to believe people will just be like, "Ya Wolves don't pretend to have a post restriction"
when in reality most players are shallow and will just think you are a wolf anyways

The best thing about him was his wall, but he has most certainly fallen off
I agree his motivations feel more like a wolf trying to look town

 

[Jackrito]

the first part is stupid imo, don't think wolves play like that
cause its like 4d chess where you have to believe people will just be like, "Ya Wolves don't pretend to have a post restriction"
when in reality most players are shallow and will just think you are a wolf anyways

The best thing about him was his wall, but he has most certainly fallen off
I agree his motivations feel more like a wolf trying to look town

Most wolfs don't claim a blue check on their teammate either though lol, we both know that scum range can include anything.

 

[ranmaru]

I mean, my point is that he has fallen off. He has been inconsistent. (With the scum motivation to appear town) The wall was good.

 

[Wiisp]

lmao... I won't do that ever again

 

[ranmaru]

Boom: What do you think about my points on Laserguy? Will respond about UP later.

 

[Pokechu]

Wiisp
UtopianPoyzin
Ranmaru
Laser
Z25
BoomFrog
Sabrar
Jackrito

I'm caught up on everything but I read most of the thread in one sitting (I took one break halfway) so most of the "pings" in my notes are from the first half of the thread when I had the most stamina. + I feel like towards the end the thread just became "will we won't we lynch Ninja" and posts just pinged me less strongly. If someone wants me to respond to something specific though, fire it at me! And if you need something cleared up just ask, I started this last night so it might not all be articulate lmao

Spoiler: Wiisp

Because I am

Loved this from Wiisp. I don't understand why people get picky about others not answering questions they ask, first. Boggles my mind. Does it matter that much? lmao

Mr Yoshi, saying wolves are more likely to respond poorly to your posts is actually false, nobody wants to read that **** regardless of their alignment

Disagree here, because tests like these can let town catch opportunistic scum (possibly someone who voted for Laser). And even if they don't get wolves to respond poorly, they can at least get townies to respond positively. I give points to Ran for his in-depth analysis towards Laser's posts.

Only two "pings" from my list, but I see it as more good from bad. There weren't any posts I found actually gross or slimy, and I think throughout all of his posts he was upfront and genuine. I recall him really trying to get attention from 3DS and just getting frustrated that the town was playing ring around the rosie. Me too, me too. Made it a pain to read the thread!

I can't see his refusal to do certain things (such as having the spotlight on him D1 or reading Jack D1) as scum because I feel like scum picks their fights better. Like why choose that hill to die on if your team really really needs you?

Spoiler: Poyzin

Eh I feel bad for making Jackrito my top scumread last time I played with them. Time to non-conspicuously change my RVS vote without drawing any attention to myself whatsoever because that's obviously the best move in the early stages of D1.

##Unvote

##Vote Sabrar

Didn't like their opener

https://smashboards.com/threads/token-power-mafia-1-2-game-over-town-win.502595/

Indeed. Just once though. Not enough to know how they play.

What has been your favorite opening so far @Pythag

Scale of openings because heck it I'm doing it

Bad -------------------- Meh -------------------- Good
Sabrar|LaserGuy|Pythag|Ranmaru|Wiisp|Z25|3DSNinja

This is my opinion which doesn't mean a whole lot but I'm just getting some brain juices flowing.

These posts confused me. I don't understand what was so bad about Sabrar's opening considering that it was RVS and how Poyzin questions Pythag about his interpretations of all the openings is weird to me. No post is useless so I won't say it's wrong for Poyzin to focus so much on openings but I'm picky and would prefer he do something else. However, I will say it's consistent for Poyzin. He did exactly this the last game (Flavorless) so I'm going to give him points here.

I'm not sure why Sabrar would ask this question in an attempt to make me second guess my position, but I don't believe I have the authority to weigh in on how a perfectly valid question is unfair.

Poy's #201 against Sab is super super good imo. I said exactly this towards one of the quotes in the Sabrar spoiler. Giving him massive points here, it's a really weird question for Sabrar to ask and I feel like Sab got a little defensive about it too.

Jackrito
Ranmaru
Wiisp
LaserGuy
Pythag
Maven
Z25
Sabrar
BoomFrog
3DSNinja

Something I don't like about Poy here. I recall Poy being really confident about town!Laser after Laser revealed his gambit, and Poy said that he really liked the analyses he made. However, Laser was nailing Jack in the analysis, so I don't see how it makes sense for Poy to place Jack higher than Laser, if he was really liking the content Laser was making. This is what gives me pause on my Poy read but I still feel like a lot of his (Poy) posts wouldn't come from scum

I said that I had high confidence, which is due to former experiences with such. Of course I can't be sure about it, but I think that it is a very reasonable claim to make that there is probably a scummer in the neighborhood. I think that I am perfectly allowed to make such an assumption and I think that you'll agree that the possibility is there. I just think that possibility is high. I'm not trying to figure out who it is right now, as I would rather focus on my personal scumreads rather than limit myself to only those three; I just think that it is a good thing to keep in mind in the future, as this theory might fit into a bigger picture down the road. I shouldn't comment on myself, but I don't think anything I said showed TMI, as I have know idea whether there's 0-3 scum in that group.

Loved this from Poy too. I feel like Sab was being a bit too nitpicky with him honing in on Poy saying "there's clearly a scum neighbor,'" I don't think that's something anyone should have to defend or explain. I like what Poy was saying here but I do feel like it's a bit excess the way he went about it(he could've said the same thing but with like two or three sentences).

If you’re curious, I updated in in #209. I don’t think I can properly answer this question rn in mobile, because that would require me to go back and find quotes that I liked. However, you’ve made pretty solid points, have been completely reasonable, and have explained all of your deductions in the thread. While I’m not going to get any quotes for you right now, the act of you asking me why I think you’re town is pretty townie in and of itself. Scum would just accept their position as being townread and not call attention to said fact. You, though, are wondering why I’m townreading you so that you can sort me based off what I say (i.e. do I “already” know if you’re town or not). Because of that, couple with the fact that you’ve been helpful and productive, I have you as a comfortable townread. However, you’re currently being out-towned by other players at the moment because you’ve been making many NAI posts that I can’t read properly. But the right motivation appears to be there.

Agreed wholly. I found this to be a good explanation from Poy and considering I have Wiisp as my highest townread I can follow Poy's logic here.

That is like the safest bottom three of all time it’s pretty impressive

Reading this almost made me pee myself. Hilarious, but what makes it funnier is that it's not wrong. McLoving it!

Poy's done some really really good stuff but some really really bad stuff. I don't like how he disappeared halfway through D1 but he did something similar in Flavorless so I'm willing to look past it for now. I also think that his roleclaim gives him a lot more credibility as I couldn't see that role for scum. But crazier things have happened!

Spoiler: Ranmaru

Also, 3DS had a good reaction and explanation to my posts.

I forgot to be honest. haven't played forum mafia in ages.

3DS' explanation was literally just "I forgot." That's not good and I don't know why one would label it as such.

Jackrito: #119 What stands out to me was his question to Wisp, which was a good point. I take his #54 as null. Jack seems to be doing the right things, but I also agree with Sabrar that, he hasn't been looking closely in terms with Laser. His #124 seems unfair stating that 'town would not do this' when it's a null thing to do, but when shown afterwards, it seemed likely to be a town thing to do and Jack even backed down from it. It just shows he wasn't actually considering that side. I also agree with Sabrar that his #155 doesn't care to actually show the evidence for why finds UP's posts good yet having an annoying feeling towards his play. Finally in his #314 he justifies Ninja as town by saying 'he's the worst town he has ever seen' while agreeing with my #268 entirely. Finally his #170 seems to be unfair towards Pythag, who has been present and trying to move the game forward (with questioning) in comparison to his read on Ninja, who isn't doing that much, but does try to seem town. Yet they don't consider this from Ninja, but uses that (trying to appear town) as ammo against Pythag. Aggressiveness or passiveness doesn't actually do much to show one's own alignment, what matters is the intent. Pythag has been much more helpful than Ninja. Yet Jack has committed to this stance, even after he Pythag has seemed to resolve this.

Really really liked this from Ranmaru though. Shows just how inconsistent Jack has been and it's put together really well. I had Jack's #170 in my list of pings but I don't remember what pinged me about it.

This is scum.



This is scum.

Honestly? Bad post


You see what I did there? LMAO no one can understand what you're saying if you just pick one sentence of a quote and highlight it red!!!! Makes it super hard to follow what you're saying and in my reads list I had while going through the game I felt like I had to solve around you. Like I really wanted to put you low but I just don't think it makes sense how you would basically be carrying the game on your back as a wolf. But at the same time you weren't someone I was really townreading either, because of posts like these.

I think Ranmaru's style just really really frustrates me because it's very dominant and commandeering, but I can't deny that he's had a willingness to solve and analyze throughout the game. Proactive player and was one of the few to really take what Laser was doing at the start seriously. This is why I doubt he's a wolf and I think going down that route is a little conspiracy-theorist.

I will say that another thing I didn't like about Ranmaru came at the start of the game, it was around Jack's vote. I recall Ranmaru was questioning Sabrar a decent bit, but when Jack voted, I don't think Ran had anything to say at all. Like all three were voting Laser, Ran was asking Sab some questions, but when Jack hopped on Ran stayed quiet. Was super weird. I might be misremembering but this is one of the first notes I made when I started reading the thread. Definitely looking into this just to make sure

Spoiler: LaserGuy

I'll be honest. Throughout my read of the thread, none of his posts particularly pinged me. That's good and bad. Because it shows that there wasn't any post that I was really adversed to, but that there also wasn't any post that I really liked.

His gambit was cool but that's about it. I see it coming more from town than scum because town would usually respond better. I guess it could be used to drive mislynches (like if a town player did have a bad reaction) but if they didn't and all put on their thinking caps, and the scummates just all stayed silent, then they'd look kind of dumb LOL

What do I have to say about the analyses?

Okay, I think that this has about exhausted its usefulness and has started becoming a distraction so I suppose I will drop this and see what we can learn.

So, obviously, I don't have a posting restriction. However, given that I don't know most of the players here except Sabrar and BoomFrog (and to a lesser extent Ran and Maven, who I will get to later), I thought it would be fun to try something a little off-the-wall to see how people would react and use this to inform my reads. The theory (pioneered by BoomFrog, incidentally), is that scum are more likely to respond poorly to something that unexpected or difficult to explain, whereas townies will behave in fairly natural, if occasionally obnoxious, ways. So my hope is by parsing people's responses to this, we can sort people more effectively.

Sabrar: Sabrar knew exactly what I was doing and chose not to engage with me directly beyond his initial RVS vote. I'm inclined to mark this as scummy for him specifically, since his typical meta with me is to tunnel me pretty aggressively any game he's Town (regardless of my alignment), and I don't see a particular reason why it would be any different just because I was posting in emojis, since I was obviously engaged in the game and would have responded to him. Sabrar's general lack of useful content or scumhunting outside of this also looks pretty bad to me.

Maven and Jackrito: Both players have a single post complaining about my behaviour (pedit Jackrito now has a second post). Like it or not, I was producing content, engaging people in discussion and responding to questions posed to me, and posing questions of my own (though outside of a few slots, mostly ignored). The superficial reaction of these slots in light of their own content strikes me largely as people looking for an easy, harmless wagon. I would be very surprised if there was not scum in at least one of these slots.

UtopianPoyzin: Pretty consistently my strongest townread throughout the entire game so far. Has been asking good questions and providing solid, nuanced opinions. His read on me in #94, seems perfectly reasonable and townie.

3DSNinja: Gives me a vaguely newbie town vibe, which is interesting since they aren't strictly a newbie to all appearances. I'm assuming that the claim was somehow to help suss out what was going on with what I was doing. I'm not exactly sure it was helpful, but I think the earnestness is more likely genuine than not. The comment in #118 that Wiisp is in the neighbourhood is very interesting to me, however, since Wiisp most definitely is not. This could be an outright slip.

Z25: Pretty typical frustrated Town reaction. Contrast to Maven/Jackrito who aren't really contributing either to the discussion around me or to the discussion around anything else. Z25 is both trying to figure out what's going on with me and is also contributing to the discussion and posting reads and analysis. As an aside, the reason I didn't answer you in the neighborhood was I was waiting for you (and some others) to post something in thread about it. Explaining to you and 3DS what I was doing would largely defeat the point of doing so as you were two of the players I was hoping to read.

BoomFrog: Is BoomFrog. As I mentioned above, this is kind of his shtick, so it's hard for me and would have no doubt tailored his response to me in exactly the way I was expecting him to regardless of his alignment. I like that he's actually gone out of his way to try to help me be understood, but again, I can't say that this is much above null for him at this point. Putting him at a slight Town lean for now.

Wiisp: Similar situation to Maven/Jackrito above. Content is generally unhelpful and does not advance discussion. Wiisp at least superficially addresses my content in something that almost looks like a read, but doesn't actually provide any reasoning behind it

pythag: Similar boat to UP. Engaged with directly in an unprejudiced manner, but didn't let that distract from examining other players and providing content. I've liked most of their thoughts and analysis so far.

Ranmaru: One of the few (only) players who seems to have really made any effort to actually interpret my content and draw conclusions from it. Even though most of those conclusions are wrong, I still think this is more likely coming from a townie place than not. I think at least some of the confusion is mostly from our respective meta reads of Sabrar--I don't particularly feel that Sabrar doing setup spec or not is AI, and while I've seen him do it in some games, I've played many games with Sabrar where he hasn't done it at all. My initial vexation with this, as I allude to in my post above, stems more from the fact that my meta on Ran is that he doesn't like setup discussion to begin with, so this seems a very strange way for him to try to engage Sabrar, given that the discussion would, from Ran's point of view, be entirely NAI anyway. Given that Ran ought to know Sabrar is typically very aggressive and active, it seems to me this is the point that Ran should have been engaging him on. That said, if Ran is convinced that Sabrar's meta is setup heavy, it is probably just an honest mistake and is all NAI. His activity and content leans more toward my town meta on him, so I'm putting him as town lean for now.

Town:
LaserGuy
UtopianPoyzin
pythag
Z25
3DS*
Ranmaru
BoomFrog
Maven
Jackrito
Wiisp
Sabrar
Scum

##Sabrar

(*) 3DS has that one comment about Wiisp in the neighborhood that really bothers me and my opinion of them could swing wildly depending on how that resolves.

I'll try to get back to any outstanding questions for me when I have some more time later today.

Also, is there a way to ISO people in this forums?

I agree with the Sabrar read and the Jack read. Part of me wants to say Jack vs Laser is TvS. I don't think Jack would have had a strong a reaction towards Laser if they both were scum (Jack would've known the plan). Since I think Jack is suspicious individually that gives a bit more points towards Laser, since I really don't think both are scum. I just really can't remember many posts Laser has made, aside from this analysis post. Definitely the first one I'll be doing a reread on.

I guess? it's possible that Laser and Sab are both scum and that's why Sab wasn't paying much attention to Laser's gambit, but I don't think it's that likely and I'm more suspicious of Jack than anyone else right now.

Spoiler: Z25

not sure how I feel about that claim being out there.

But yes 3ds isn’t lying. I wouldn’t have claimed day one even if it does save laser.

That’s why I responded to Laser last night and I sent a message in the neighborhood pm. Both which have been ignored and he was speaking normally there.

If I’m being honest I would have supported the Laser lynch, and then suggested we claim day 2.

Because Laser emotis not helping us at all.

Anyway with that information out there, I’m guessing there’s 3 scum to balance out the setup if there’s a neighborhood of the 3 of us and then then the other townies.

I called this post disgusting in my notes. Unlike Sabrar's, I remember why. "Laser's emotes aren't helping us at all." They generated so much content and really stirred activity in the thread. Very opportunist for Z to support the Laser lynch solely off the emoji situation.

I already said I was literally going to vote for them though. I specifically asked them in the thread and pm with no definitive answer. The fact they couldn’t even respond to the pm means to me that they have a lot less town intent.

Weird post. Why would they respond to your PM and ruin their gambit? And just solely off not responding to the PM, they have no town intent? That's a big jump to make. Like do you really think it would be that easy to catch scum? LOL like "oh he's not responding to me. He must be scum!" I'm wary of Laser but this is bad evidence to support a scumread imo

Just like it’s impressive how poorly constructed that last reads list of your was

GROSS post. I'm allergic! It seems like every time anyone even bats an eye at what Z says, he hits them with a haymaker punch! LOL Not necessary and a real bad look. What did this accomplish? Poy wasn't wrong. Z's scum list was the three most common and he also couldn't come up with a fourth. GROSS post.

I don’t want to hear **** from you. You don’t have town intent. You literally refused to discuss people when asked just cause it’s day one.

That’s just bad so I really don’t get why you think you can criticize people here. My ideals are exactly how town should think. There is plenty of time to learn more and the fact your are trying to shut down good discussion feels very anti town.

Another haymaker punch from Z. I don't know why he does this!!! I really don't see it coming from scum because they should be worried about more than throwing pot shots. But it's like, someone says something against Z and he doesn't do anything besides throw a potshot back! Like that's what's really anti-town here, because you could use this as an opportunity to like get someone to think differently, explain themselves more, explain yourself more, etc. Not just backhand them LMAO

Wasn't there some post from Z where he was like "I didn't consider scum in the neighborhood" but he had said that he was willing to lynch Laser? I think that was brought up in the thread but that's also a bad look for Z. Maybe it's just a case of poor wording or like he didn't specifically think that there HAD to be a scum in the neighborhood, but either way I don't like his push on Laser. How he interacts with other people is always shaving my sheep and grinding my gears but since he made similar posts in Flavorless I know that it doesn't mean anything for his alignment. Would probably do a reread on him after Laser to really wrap my head around him.

Spoiler: BoomFrog

Jackrito knows that LGs behavior feels more weird for scum then town, so that means LG is more likely to be town. I can understand the vote to pressure LG to stop, but Jackrito is aware enough to know that this isn't actually a real problem. But after a day they still settle down into their "easy" vote target without really trying to analyze.

Really like this vote callout here. Even while I wasn't in the game, when I read that vote from Jack I found it super sketch. He it put down way too quick but took it away even quicker. That doesn't read like pressuring Laser to me (which was his goal for the vote).

##Unvote
Jackrito's been far more proactive and that really messes up my earlier theory. Also, I like that Pythag is trying to throw 3DS a line and let him help himself if he is town.

##Maven

But Boom makes this post which completely goes against his last. I don't understand how Jack being more proactive invalidates his Laser vote? Boom was far too quick to remove this vote on Jack tbh and I don't know why. I think this was discussed in the thread even but it all blended together.

Like Laser I can't remember many of Boom's posts. I say it's partially because I replaced in and read the thread all at once (not a smart idea in hindsight!) but I'm interested in hearing more from him. I think Boom was the one to say "3DS wouldn't think the whole neighborhood was town unless he was town as well" which is an acute observation but it could also be scum propping themselves up after a 3DS mislynch. I think Ranmaru said something like that but he just said one sentence and just linked to the post numbers, and I didn't find it very helpful or explanative. But I digress

Spoiler: Sabrar

This is incorrect reasoning. Masonry and Neighborhood lead to very different plays and each has their role in the game.

Even if this is based on actual datapoints, why do you exclude the possibility that the mod is deliberately trying to circumvent players' expectations?

Find it super disingenuous of him to try and make Poyzin argue a possibility that is blatantly unlikely. I feel like it's goading Poy into making a bad post for Sab to step in on, and I think if Sab was town that he would just ask better questions. Like why drive your train of thought down this route? Like obviously Poyzin isn't planning to blindly lynch the three neighbors until he gets one that flips scum. For D1 it's a good rule of thumb to use, that one of the neighbors might be scum. Nothing wrong with what Poy did here, points taken away from Sab.

Except I'm not 'focusing' on this scenario, I'm just questioning your line of thought.

Please explain why in detail. And no, 'natural intuition' doesn't count.

It seems like you are focusing on the scenario if you're asking Poy about it. Like the question didn't need to be asked because it's something that'll sort itself out. Poy isn't solely using the neighborhood as a basis for his reads. This is why it feels like deflecting to me, it's a line of thought that didn't really need to be questioned. Feels like an attempt to get people to doubt themselves like "but what if they're town??????"

Hey George, I think you're town (for a change) but this is basically your only read that I can agree with. BoomFrog is a much better player than to chainsaw D1 during RVS.

What does it mean to chainsaw? I've not heard the term before

Most likely not 3ds.

No restriction but it is in scum!LGs repertoire to do this despite the attention it would bring.

Unknown player with different background. If I had to guess it rather points to town!3ds. Scum would probably not reveal this as having a private channel where you can influence townies is good for them.

I wrote "look into" next to this post number in my notes. I wish I wrote more because I forgot exactly what raised my eyebrow. I think the point he brought up about 3DS isn't bad but anyone could've made it, town or scum. I think what's pinging me here is that we would know about the neighborhood regardless. Like it's three people in there, eventually one would've revealed it or one would've gotten lynched. So while it's not a bad observation Sab made, it's not a good one either because scum should know from the start that the neighborhood's not staying private. NAI but this quote still caught my eye for some reason

So this is the exact wording (from #73, bolded part is mine). For me 'clearly' defines a confidence level of 99% or above. It implies that there shouldn't even be a shadow of doubt regarding the issue. That was my problem with it and it feels to me like UP is trying to lessen the confidence level in their later posts (#92, #93 and especially right now in #225 where he explicitly denies TMI without prompting),

As slimy as Helix from ARMS. I think this is a really really weak "gotcha!" post Sab tried to make, I completely understand that ("clearly") being a kneejerk reaction from Poy because usually when there is a neighborhood one of them is scum. Not always but it happens frequently. And this post from Sab kind of goes hand in hand with his others talking about he's not focusing on an all-town neighborhood. Like I feel like when he's nailing Poy for this that he kind of is? Like he's taking this whole thing a bit too far? Even if his problem is the "confidence level" it's a bit disingenuous to hold this (not considering town neighborhood) against Poy when it's just unlikely.

I will say that Sab's tone feels a bit detached from all his posts. Like some of his interactions with Poy are just weird. Like they're not bad but what he's asking or what he's trying to get out of Poy I feel doesn't really benefit anyone.

Spoiler: Jackrito

##Laserguy

For now this emote only responses are going to get old real fast.

I need to read this game properly though which I will do tomorrow.

I'm not sure if Laser is really scum since doing something that annoying is a fast track way to rub people the wrong way, which scum would try to avoid. I don't see why a town does it either though so best to pressure this slot.

Found this post slimy. Makes no sense at all imo. Votes Laser, but questions if he could really be scum because this tactic doesn't seem befitting for scum. But he can't think of any reason for town to do it at all??? Not a single reason? Such as gathering reactions or seeing who'll take it seriously and give it their all? And he also flat out says "pressure the slot!" but if you explicitly say you're pressing the slot.... you're kind of making your vote moot. Like you just ruined the point of the vote LOL

My view on Laser is pretty much the same his posts are unhelpful and is a way to avoid giving info which a town would not do. As Z25 said he has done some words in his posts so the emote restriction is a lie. Add that to a neighbourhood and me agreeing likely one scum in it he seems like the clear choice.

Goes with the last quote. This seems preemptive and opportunist. For it being D1 he has a lot of confidence in scum!Laser. It reads like TMI because Jack makes him out to be the "clear choice" and again states that town would never do what he is doing (despite the fact that there are numerous reasons why town would do similar gambits).

##unvote

I'm semi fine with the reason given, their anaylsis from it as well seems legit.

Very quick to unvote, despite the conviction they had with their original vote. Seems to me like they're scum who got afraid of being caught. Doesn't say much about Laser's analyses either. Makes their original vote seem weak if this is how easily they're swayed from it.

I agree that they are a scum read, My reasons being that they are playing very safe atm an example of this is how they handled lazer they were very non commital this shows awarness and potential fear of falling into a trap imo. I just don't get a town mindset off them either,and their views on the neighbourhood feels a little tmi. This read may change once they get more proactive

Found this post hypocritical when paired with the last quote. Jackrito was pretty noncomittal with Laser also, he voted but took it away with no qualms after Laser revealed the plan. You'd think with a vote Jack put out that he'd have some questions first? Agree on the Sabrar point though

I don't think I really backed down from the laser thing especially since I'm now scumreading him again. His reason was good but also able to come from scum he had enough thinking time to come up with a good excuse while just doing emotes. I did not care for looking at the deeper reasons for it because I don't play mafia to decripher emotes and was voting partly to get him to stop and also since I still stand by it was a way to avoid content.

This post shows how Jack keeps flip flopping with his reads. He put the Laser vote out, Laser revealed, Jack took it away, now Jack's still scumreading him. I think that if town, Jack would stick to one side more and not go back and forth. Why the inconsistency? Just weird to me imo if town

I think Jack's handling of the Laser situation was a bad look and it makes it hard for me to see him as town. I don't remember specifically any of his other posts being as bad but his original vote on Laser was just preemptive. Rereading him and Sab for sure

 

[Sabrar]

UtopianPoyzin : I lied. One last question regarding RVS.
In #13 you justify your vote-switch to me because you didn't like my opener. That was before my #35 in which (according to you) I justified my RVS on LaserGuy. You later state that it was obvious that my opener wasn't serious. So if your switch was a joke then why did you feel the need to justify it? Double standard much?

 

[BoomFrog]

Just to be clear on something, based on your most recent posts. You're scum-reading both UP and myself, correct?

No, UP is scum, you are town.

 

[Jackrito]

I thought this was obvious,but based off Pokechu case on me clearly not, my initial vote on laser was not because I thought for certain he was scum. It was half a pressure vote to try and get them out of that nonsense. I already explained that I don't have time to decripher emotes all day or want to. I took the vote off once that goal was reached and their reasons for it were fine. I'm back to scumreading them for reasons that are not connected to if scum would do it or not. My only issue with it now is the lack of use he got out of something he clearly had a purpose for. Well that and the other factors listed a bit ago.

Also saying I was noncommital to Laser, but scumreading me for my intial commitment is questionable to say the least. Having me as bottom on their list only for my approach to Laser is weird to me especially when Laser could still be scum here.

Add that to his top town being Wisp and UP I find very weird they are up there, especially their points on Wisp which he can easily do as scum. I know that I also townread Wisp but that is off a deeper understanding of him. His points on Up being town also feel a bit on the weak side.

I just find that overall post Pokechu did very lacking for a reread and too much focus on one incident, that even the person who did it does not seem to care about.

 

[Sabrar]

No, UP is scum, you are town.

Okay. The only thing I could find where you justify me being town is #1397. Did you think of that reason during the Night? If yes, what was the point of your question in #1393? I doubt my answer played any role in your evaluation of me and I can't see any other reason why I would go from second scummiest to town-read.

 

[Sabrar]

ranmaru

He asks me why Boom being scum invalidates my case of Ninja, and how I can resolve my #405 from Town!Ninja. This doesn't make sense when he believes Ninja is town.

It had very little to do with how I viewed Ninja at the time and much more with how your logic works. Your #912 didn't make sense for reasons already explained.

I ask him if he sees my point on Boom likely positioning himself on Ninja's flip, and he states that he can see Boom suggesting slips for Ninja so he can argue as town later, implying Ninja!Scum + Boom!Scum. (When I was arguing Boom!scum > Ninja!Town)

I knew what you were arguing, I just had a different pov.

 

[Z25]

Yeah, agreed we should REALLY stop claiming in general. Also, I'm VERY confident Ran is town, so can we please move past that paranoia?

Without further claiming. Z25 why did you feel the need to essentially claim worse then vanilla town? You should be aware vanilla town claiming is bad for town, right?

Sabrar We have some more headbutting to do before I trust you but I need to go to bed like an hour ago. How can games like WoTIII where I spent all of day 2 defending Vicarin and the two cop theory not spring to mind? I spend like half of my games vigorously defending someone no one else trusts.

Because that’s my actual role and it showed me these tokens of an item giver is at play. If Wisp got them then they means they are likely town, as I can’t say I’ve seen mods given scum tokens.

Regardless that information tells flavor can be worth paying attention to here which is why I also suggested a flavor claim.

I'm glad to see Wisp efforting this phase. I'm curious about scumreads from Pokechu , Jackrito and Z25 today. Lot's of discussion, not enough voting.

My scum list today is Pokechu because I still think Maven was Scum and I find Pokechu’s entrance poor. They seem to have learned nothing from flavorless about players.

Laser I think you made a good case in. After all I said this multiple times yesterday their play was exactly like Nabe’s day one here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-phantom-mafia-so-this-is-how-liberty-dies.458563/

Boom is a potential candidate to. I want to trust Up more because of his role because I can’t see the benefit for scum having that power unless it was to make scum seem town. That be a weird way to do so though.

I agree that we really need to look at Laser first
Today.

the first part is stupid imo, don't think wolves play like that
cause its like 4d chess where you have to believe people will just be like, "Ya Wolves don't pretend to have a post restriction"
when in reality most players are shallow and will just think you are a wolf anyways

The best thing about him was his wall, but he has most certainly fallen off
I agree his motivations feel more like a wolf trying to look town

Wolves absolutely play that way. Read day one here, specifically Nabe:

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-phantom-mafia-so-this-is-how-liberty-dies.458563/
Nabe was godfather here btw.

Wiisp
UtopianPoyzin
Ranmaru
Laser
Z25
BoomFrog
Sabrar
Jackrito

I'm caught up on everything but I read most of the thread in one sitting (I took one break halfway) so most of the "pings" in my notes are from the first half of the thread when I had the most stamina. + I feel like towards the end the thread just became "will we won't we lynch Ninja" and posts just pinged me less strongly. If someone wants me to respond to something specific though, fire it at me! And if you need something cleared up just ask, I started this last night so it might not all be articulate lmao

Spoiler: Wiisp

Loved this from Wiisp. I don't understand why people get picky about others not answering questions they ask, first. Boggles my mind. Does it matter that much? lmao

Disagree here, because tests like these can let town catch opportunistic scum (possibly someone who voted for Laser). And even if they don't get wolves to respond poorly, they can at least get townies to respond positively. I give points to Ran for his in-depth analysis towards Laser's posts.

Only two "pings" from my list, but I see it as more good from bad. There weren't any posts I found actually gross or slimy, and I think throughout all of his posts he was upfront and genuine. I recall him really trying to get attention from 3DS and just getting frustrated that the town was playing ring around the rosie. Me too, me too. Made it a pain to read the thread!

I can't see his refusal to do certain things (such as having the spotlight on him D1 or reading Jack D1) as scum because I feel like scum picks their fights better. Like why choose that hill to die on if your team really really needs you?

Spoiler: Poyzin

These posts confused me. I don't understand what was so bad about Sabrar's opening considering that it was RVS and how Poyzin questions Pythag about his interpretations of all the openings is weird to me. No post is useless so I won't say it's wrong for Poyzin to focus so much on openings but I'm picky and would prefer he do something else. However, I will say it's consistent for Poyzin. He did exactly this the last game (Flavorless) so I'm going to give him points here.

Poy's #201 against Sab is super super good imo. I said exactly this towards one of the quotes in the Sabrar spoiler. Giving him massive points here, it's a really weird question for Sabrar to ask and I feel like Sab got a little defensive about it too.

Something I don't like about Poy here. I recall Poy being really confident about town!Laser after Laser revealed his gambit, and Poy said that he really liked the analyses he made. However, Laser was nailing Jack in the analysis, so I don't see how it makes sense for Poy to place Jack higher than Laser, if he was really liking the content Laser was making. This is what gives me pause on my Poy read but I still feel like a lot of his (Poy) posts wouldn't come from scum

Loved this from Poy too. I feel like Sab was being a bit too nitpicky with him honing in on Poy saying "there's clearly a scum neighbor,'" I don't think that's something anyone should have to defend or explain. I like what Poy was saying here but I do feel like it's a bit excess the way he went about it(he could've said the same thing but with like two or three sentences).

Agreed wholly. I found this to be a good explanation from Poy and considering I have Wiisp as my highest townread I can follow Poy's logic here.

Reading this almost made me pee myself. Hilarious, but what makes it funnier is that it's not wrong. McLoving it!

Poy's done some really really good stuff but some really really bad stuff. I don't like how he disappeared halfway through D1 but he did something similar in Flavorless so I'm willing to look past it for now. I also think that his roleclaim gives him a lot more credibility as I couldn't see that role for scum. But crazier things have happened!

Spoiler: Ranmaru

3DS' explanation was literally just "I forgot." That's not good and I don't know why one would label it as such.

Really really liked this from Ranmaru though. Shows just how inconsistent Jack has been and it's put together really well. I had Jack's #170 in my list of pings but I don't remember what pinged me about it.

Honestly? Bad post


You see what I did there? LMAO no one can understand what you're saying if you just pick one sentence of a quote and highlight it red!!!! Makes it super hard to follow what you're saying and in my reads list I had while going through the game I felt like I had to solve around you. Like I really wanted to put you low but I just don't think it makes sense how you would basically be carrying the game on your back as a wolf. But at the same time you weren't someone I was really townreading either, because of posts like these.

I think Ranmaru's style just really really frustrates me because it's very dominant and commandeering, but I can't deny that he's had a willingness to solve and analyze throughout the game. Proactive player and was one of the few to really take what Laser was doing at the start seriously. This is why I doubt he's a wolf and I think going down that route is a little conspiracy-theorist.

I will say that another thing I didn't like about Ranmaru came at the start of the game, it was around Jack's vote. I recall Ranmaru was questioning Sabrar a decent bit, but when Jack voted, I don't think Ran had anything to say at all. Like all three were voting Laser, Ran was asking Sab some questions, but when Jack hopped on Ran stayed quiet. Was super weird. I might be misremembering but this is one of the first notes I made when I started reading the thread. Definitely looking into this just to make sure

Spoiler: LaserGuy

I'll be honest. Throughout my read of the thread, none of his posts particularly pinged me. That's good and bad. Because it shows that there wasn't any post that I was really adversed to, but that there also wasn't any post that I really liked.

His gambit was cool but that's about it. I see it coming more from town than scum because town would usually respond better. I guess it could be used to drive mislynches (like if a town player did have a bad reaction) but if they didn't and all put on their thinking caps, and the scummates just all stayed silent, then they'd look kind of dumb LOL

What do I have to say about the analyses?

I agree with the Sabrar read and the Jack read. Part of me wants to say Jack vs Laser is TvS. I don't think Jack would have had a strong a reaction towards Laser if they both were scum (Jack would've known the plan). Since I think Jack is suspicious individually that gives a bit more points towards Laser, since I really don't think both are scum. I just really can't remember many posts Laser has made, aside from this analysis post. Definitely the first one I'll be doing a reread on.

I guess? it's possible that Laser and Sab are both scum and that's why Sab wasn't paying much attention to Laser's gambit, but I don't think it's that likely and I'm more suspicious of Jack than anyone else right now.

Spoiler: Z25

I called this post disgusting in my notes. Unlike Sabrar's, I remember why. "Laser's emotes aren't helping us at all." They generated so much content and really stirred activity in the thread. Very opportunist for Z to support the Laser lynch solely off the emoji situation.

Weird post. Why would they respond to your PM and ruin their gambit? And just solely off not responding to the PM, they have no town intent? That's a big jump to make. Like do you really think it would be that easy to catch scum? LOL like "oh he's not responding to me. He must be scum!" I'm wary of Laser but this is bad evidence to support a scumread imo


GROSS post. I'm allergic! It seems like every time anyone even bats an eye at what Z says, he hits them with a haymaker punch! LOL Not necessary and a real bad look. What did this accomplish? Poy wasn't wrong. Z's scum list was the three most common and he also couldn't come up with a fourth. GROSS post.

Another haymaker punch from Z. I don't know why he does this!!! I really don't see it coming from scum because they should be worried about more than throwing pot shots. But it's like, someone says something against Z and he doesn't do anything besides throw a potshot back! Like that's what's really anti-town here, because you could use this as an opportunity to like get someone to think differently, explain themselves more, explain yourself more, etc. Not just backhand them LMAO

Wasn't there some post from Z where he was like "I didn't consider scum in the neighborhood" but he had said that he was willing to lynch Laser? I think that was brought up in the thread but that's also a bad look for Z. Maybe it's just a case of poor wording or like he didn't specifically think that there HAD to be a scum in the neighborhood, but either way I don't like his push on Laser. How he interacts with other people is always shaving my sheep and grinding my gears but since he made similar posts in Flavorless I know that it doesn't mean anything for his alignment. Would probably do a reread on him after Laser to really wrap my head around him.

Spoiler: BoomFrog

Really like this vote callout here. Even while I wasn't in the game, when I read that vote from Jack I found it super sketch. He it put down way too quick but took it away even quicker. That doesn't read like pressuring Laser to me (which was his goal for the vote).

But Boom makes this post which completely goes against his last. I don't understand how Jack being more proactive invalidates his Laser vote? Boom was far too quick to remove this vote on Jack tbh and I don't know why. I think this was discussed in the thread even but it all blended together.

Like Laser I can't remember many of Boom's posts. I say it's partially because I replaced in and read the thread all at once (not a smart idea in hindsight!) but I'm interested in hearing more from him. I think Boom was the one to say "3DS wouldn't think the whole neighborhood was town unless he was town as well" which is an acute observation but it could also be scum propping themselves up after a 3DS mislynch. I think Ranmaru said something like that but he just said one sentence and just linked to the post numbers, and I didn't find it very helpful or explanative. But I digress

Spoiler: Sabrar

Find it super disingenuous of him to try and make Poyzin argue a possibility that is blatantly unlikely. I feel like it's goading Poy into making a bad post for Sab to step in on, and I think if Sab was town that he would just ask better questions. Like why drive your train of thought down this route? Like obviously Poyzin isn't planning to blindly lynch the three neighbors until he gets one that flips scum. For D1 it's a good rule of thumb to use, that one of the neighbors might be scum. Nothing wrong with what Poy did here, points taken away from Sab.

It seems like you are focusing on the scenario if you're asking Poy about it. Like the question didn't need to be asked because it's something that'll sort itself out. Poy isn't solely using the neighborhood as a basis for his reads. This is why it feels like deflecting to me, it's a line of thought that didn't really need to be questioned. Feels like an attempt to get people to doubt themselves like "but what if they're town??????"

What does it mean to chainsaw? I've not heard the term before

I wrote "look into" next to this post number in my notes. I wish I wrote more because I forgot exactly what raised my eyebrow. I think the point he brought up about 3DS isn't bad but anyone could've made it, town or scum. I think what's pinging me here is that we would know about the neighborhood regardless. Like it's three people in there, eventually one would've revealed it or one would've gotten lynched. So while it's not a bad observation Sab made, it's not a good one either because scum should know from the start that the neighborhood's not staying private. NAI but this quote still caught my eye for some reason

As slimy as Helix from ARMS. I think this is a really really weak "gotcha!" post Sab tried to make, I completely understand that ("clearly") being a kneejerk reaction from Poy because usually when there is a neighborhood one of them is scum. Not always but it happens frequently. And this post from Sab kind of goes hand in hand with his others talking about he's not focusing on an all-town neighborhood. Like I feel like when he's nailing Poy for this that he kind of is? Like he's taking this whole thing a bit too far? Even if his problem is the "confidence level" it's a bit disingenuous to hold this (not considering town neighborhood) against Poy when it's just unlikely.

I will say that Sab's tone feels a bit detached from all his posts. Like some of his interactions with Poy are just weird. Like they're not bad but what he's asking or what he's trying to get out of Poy I feel doesn't really benefit anyone.

Spoiler: Jackrito

Found this post slimy. Makes no sense at all imo. Votes Laser, but questions if he could really be scum because this tactic doesn't seem befitting for scum. But he can't think of any reason for town to do it at all??? Not a single reason? Such as gathering reactions or seeing who'll take it seriously and give it their all? And he also flat out says "pressure the slot!" but if you explicitly say you're pressing the slot.... you're kind of making your vote moot. Like you just ruined the point of the vote LOL

Goes with the last quote. This seems preemptive and opportunist. For it being D1 he has a lot of confidence in scum!Laser. It reads like TMI because Jack makes him out to be the "clear choice" and again states that town would never do what he is doing (despite the fact that there are numerous reasons why town would do similar gambits).

Very quick to unvote, despite the conviction they had with their original vote. Seems to me like they're scum who got afraid of being caught. Doesn't say much about Laser's analyses either. Makes their original vote seem weak if this is how easily they're swayed from it.

Found this post hypocritical when paired with the last quote. Jackrito was pretty noncomittal with Laser also, he voted but took it away with no qualms after Laser revealed the plan. You'd think with a vote Jack put out that he'd have some questions first? Agree on the Sabrar point though

This post shows how Jack keeps flip flopping with his reads. He put the Laser vote out, Laser revealed, Jack took it away, now Jack's still scumreading him. I think that if town, Jack would stick to one side more and not go back and forth. Why the inconsistency? Just weird to me imo if town

I think Jack's handling of the Laser situation was a bad look and it makes it hard for me to see him as town. I don't remember specifically any of his other posts being as bad but his original vote on Laser was just preemptive. Rereading him and Sab for sure

Ive explained this to you before, you’ve played enough games with me to understand my behavior.

I’m not going to ignore potshots which is exactly what UP did in that post you complained about my response too, yet you say nothing about that.

Also just because you think my points were harsh doesn’t make them wrong or anti town. Same could be said for several things you quoted here.

Lastly a neighborhood is suppose to work as a team, so having laser ignore that and not respond beforehand is something I think didn’t look good combined with the emoji position/ because again scum fake that.

I’ve linked a great example of that twice in this post so you should read that too.

 

[Sabrar]

Pokechu

Find it super disingenuous of him to try and make Poyzin argue a possibility that is blatantly unlikely.

The underlined is incorrect. I did the same thing in the last game I modded (i.e given a scummy role to a townie precisely because I expected players to think otherwise). I also played in a game where Xivii was present and I was given a role as scum that previously was town. That possibility is very far from 'blatantly unlikely'.

It seems like you are focusing on the scenario if you're asking Poy about it.

No, UP was the one focusing on finding the scum in the neighborhood. I just questioned his whole premise.

What does it mean to chainsaw? I've not heard the term before

"defending another player by attacking the other player's attacker"

And this post from Sab kind of goes hand in hand with his others talking about he's not focusing on an all-town neighborhood. Like I feel like when he's nailing Poy for this that he kind of is?

I wasn't focusing on any kind of neighborhood. The neighborhood thing doesn't influence my reads at all and I would like having everybody follow my example.

 

[Z25]

Reading this almost made me pee myself. Hilarious, but what makes it funnier is that it's not wrong. McLoving it!

Poy's done some really really good stuff but some really really bad stuff. I don't like how he disappeared halfway through D1 but he did something similar in Flavorless so I'm willing to look past it for now. I also think that his roleclaim gives him a lot more credibility as I couldn't see that role for scum. But crazier things have happened!

And here we see the wild Pokechu’s bias towards UP in full force. It’s ok when someone they have bias towards makes shots at other players but not when someone they could care less for does.

Thus makes the read list overall a lot poorly imo

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy Who's scum today?

Probably Jackrito.

-Their vote on 3DS is very opportunistic. He was reading 3DS as unlikely to be scum in #263, #356, #418, then when he sees that you are serious about pushing Ninja, flips his opinion of him and supports the lynch.
-He is being deliberately slippery/hedgy in his analysis to avoid committing to any strong positions. E.g. #54, #155, #314, #356, #621. I feel like he is more interested in keeping on good terms with you and Wiisp than with actually trying to solve the game.

##Jackrito

I am thinking about Z25 as I don't like basically any of their content today. The rolefishing he was doing pings me a lot. Wiisp has made some good points about him as well. I will try to do a full reread of him in my evening post.

UP and Maven slot are still on my radar. I'm liking BoomFrog more at the moment.

I mean, my point is that he has fallen off. He has been inconsistent. (With the scum motivation to appear town) The wall was good.

Almost like I have limited opportunities to post and can't monitor the thread constantly so I'm always trying to catch up. I'm sure I've mentioned this before at some point or other. I had the same problem in that game we played in Serene Forest and you scumread for me it then too (we were both Town). I think the people who are using this to scumread me (particularly Jack) are probably looking for an excuse to push me without needing to analyse what I've actually posted.

 

[Z25]

While I still take issues with Pokechu, I still want to give them a chance, let’s see if their content can impress more than in flavorless.

Right now the bigger problem I think lies in:

##Vote:Laser

 

[Sabrar]

Pokechu

I think Ranmaru's style just really really frustrates me because it's very dominant and commandeering, but I can't deny that he's had a willingness to solve and analyze throughout the game.

This post shows how Jack keeps flip flopping with his reads. He put the Laser vote out, Laser revealed, Jack took it away, now Jack's still scumreading him. I think that if town, Jack would stick to one side more and not go back and forth. Why the inconsistency? Just weird to me imo if town

Ranmaru literally was all over the place, changing his mind constantly about who was scum. Why does this behavior equal scummyness when it comes to Jack?

 

[Z25]

Probably Jackrito.

-Their vote on 3DS is very opportunistic. He was reading 3DS as unlikely to be scum in #263, #356, #418, then when he sees that you are serious about pushing Ninja, flips his opinion of him and supports the lynch.
-He is being deliberately slippery/hedgy in his analysis to avoid committing to any strong positions. E.g. #54, #155, #314, #356, #621. I feel like he is more interested in keeping on good terms with you and Wiisp than with actually trying to solve the game.

##Jackrito

I am thinking about Z25 as I don't like basically any of their content today. The rolefishing he was doing pings me a lot. Wiisp has made some good points about him as well. I will try to do a full reread of him in my evening post.

UP and Maven slot are still on my radar. I'm liking BoomFrog more at the moment.



Almost like I have limited opportunities to post and can't monitor the thread constantly so I'm always trying to catch up. I'm sure I've mentioned this before at some point or other. I had the same problem in that game we played in Serene Forest and you scumread for me it then too (we were both Town). I think the people who are using this to scumread me (particularly Jack) are probably looking for an excuse to push me without needing to analyse what I've actually posted.

I still you aren’t reading.

I didn’t role fish for one.

I flavored fish because I am 100 percent certain scum will all flip with one thing in common in their flavor.

Im debating weather or not I should say what that is but this game is very similar to one we had a while back where there was a theme between new and old.
Regardless Flavor fishing is not role fishing. I could care less about who can do what, I wanted to see if people would claim users as I think that’s the key to nailing scum.

 

[Pokechu]

Ive explained this to you before, you’ve played enough games with me to understand my behavior.

I’m not going to ignore potshots which is exactly what UP did in that post you complained about my response too, yet you say nothing about that.

Also just because you think my points were harsh doesn’t make them wrong or anti town. Same could be said for several things you quoted here.

Lastly a neighborhood is suppose to work as a team, so having laser ignore that and not respond beforehand is something I think didn’t look good combined with the emoji position/ because again scum fake that.

I’ve linked a great example of that twice in this post so you should read that too.

And here we see the wild Pokechu’s bias towards UP in full force. It’s ok when someone they have bias towards makes shots at other players but not when someone they could care less for does.

Thus makes the read list overall a lot poorly imo

He wasn't wrong and his post was just snarky instead of rude. There's a different between being a butt and a butthole. Poy was being a butt but you were the butthole LMAO

I don't see how it makes the read list overall poor. Not everything centers around you Embarrass sorry sweetie but Poy has my heart Just because you don't like what I said about you doesn't mean that the whole list is bad

I also did explicitly say that even though I didn't like how you were going about your points, they didn't have an impact on your alignment. I was in the game you linked so I know about Nake's fake silence claim, I was his scummate LOL but I don't think we should inherently look at Laser as scummy because of it, because that's just one game.

 

[Z25]

He wasn't wrong and his post was just snarky instead of rude. There's a different between being a butt and a butthole. Poy was being a butt but you were the butthole LMAO

I don't see how it makes the read list overall poor. Not everything centers around you Embarrass sorry sweetie but Poy has my heart Just because you don't like what I said about you doesn't mean that the whole list is bad

I also did explicitly say that even though I didn't like how you were going about your points, they didn't have an impact on your alignment. I was in the game you linked so I know about Nake's fake silence claim, I was his scummate LOL but I don't think we should inherently look at Laser as scummy because of it, because that's just one game.

Snarky and rude are literally the same terms.

And you could still benefit from a re read. And just one game isn’t really valid when scum plays in mafia all fall into similar patterns

 

[Z25]

Regardless Pokechu expain to me how Wisp your top town read doesn’t ping you by refusing to comment on players yesterday?
It’s fine to town read try them, but it’s not fine to ignore things like that.

 

[Pokechu]

Snarky and rude are literally the same terms.

And you could still benefit from a re read. And just one game isn’t really valid when scum plays in mafia all fall into similar patterns

If I swore at Poy that's rude. If I said his posts were so sick they gave me COVID-19 that's snark LOL

Like if you're just going around discrediting everyone with a valid complaint, that's rude and a very poor look. But Poy was right to point out how your bottom three was the most common, especially when you couldn't find a fourth.

Honestly not interested in rereading (at least not at this moment) because replacing in is hard enough and I don't like living in the past. It can help at times but I don't think one piece of meta is something to take with you for years on end

 

[Z25]

Moving on in Pokechu’s list, Ran”s ninja post refers tO he reaction you quoted it seems not the content in that indivual post, but also the content in Ninja’s other posts.

So I think it was less that post was good but Ran thought other posts were good

 

[Pokechu]

Regardless Pokechu expain to me how Wisp your top town read doesn’t ping you by refusing to comment on players yesterday?
It’s fine to town read try them, but it’s not fine to ignore things like that.

It shows that they don't care how people are reading them, but it's also not threatening like 3DS' "vote me if you want! I don't care!!!"

Like it shows Wiisp is going with his own rhythm, doing what he thinks needs to be done, and he's not letting anyone interfere with that. And I think he said he'd comment on them today right? + He seemed to have been genuinely busy (I remember a post of his that said something like he already spent much more time than what he was going to on this game). His roleclaim helps too because I don't think scum would have what seems to be a lynchproof ability. That'd suck in LyLo

 

[LaserGuy]

Lastly a neighborhood is suppose to work as a team, so having laser ignore that and not respond beforehand is something I think didn’t look good combined with the emoji position/ because again scum fake that.

I was trying to read you and 3DS as well as everyone else. If I told you what I was doing beforehand it would have contaminated my reads of you and reduced the value of the exercise.

I flavored fish because I am 100 percent certain scum will all flip with one thing in common in their flavor.

Flavor appears to be connected to roles. Mod has already indicated in the OP that roles are randomly assigned and therefore not connected to alignment.