Oasis Mafia - Over!

[BoomFrog]

Actually, bump LaserGuy above z25. He could have given a much more half hearted explanation of my style and left me to get lynched. The indirect defense if be was townie.

ranmaru ... sigh. I'll dig up the evidence for the D1 wiisp read later.

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar Who is scum to you today?

I'm much less sure about UP, I'm more sus of BF but want to wait to see if he brings up some specific points. I want to see Pokechu's reads. Wiisp is probably town.
Work started for me, I'll have more time in the evening,

 

[ranmaru]

I'm glad to see Wisp efforting this phase. I'm curious about scumreads from Pokechu , Jackrito and Z25 today. Lot's of discussion, not enough voting.

 

[ranmaru]

LaserGuy Who's scum today?

 

[Wiisp]

ranmaru
I really dislike the way you talk about your wolf reads
But hey at least we can agree on Boom

I think your read of Maven is weird... I've seen it happen, I need more concrete reasons

 

[Jackrito]

I'm glad to see Wisp efforting this phase. I'm curious about scumreads from Pokechu , Jackrito and Z25 today. Lot's of discussion, not enough voting.

I still see Laser and Boom as my top picks today. They is potential in the Maven slot, seeing what Pokechu does will make that a lot more clear.

UP I.m still a bit iffy on I feel a need to do a full review of them since I feel they just have a scummy style and I need to deep read to see their real intent, my gut view is town though like I had them near the start of day one. I think that a scum would try to adapt more and especially not carry on with the reads with no real explaining he just seems a bit stubborn.

I want to also review Sabrar as well, I was scum reading them at first, but that changed once they went more agrro which I have a habit of townreading, they took a lot of stances so on relook I feel that it will become clear if those stance show clear town progression or reactive scum to suit the situation.

I feel semi confident on Wisp,he seems a bit more proactive today, he's not like himself, but I know he is attempting a more sit back approach, you have filled his void of agrro town well also. I feel his doubts on me are real also, if scum I feel that he jumps on me more this game and forces the issue. He knows me well and I never scum read him before. So I feel that reaction is a true one of confusion rather then worry or potential anger. His ever changeing stance on Ninja is something I feel he does not do as scum also.

As Said before Z25 I still like and he would properly go in my top 3 with you and Wisp, they are some issues, but never really got a scum vibe off this game, in token he was giving one off a lot more and his stances bothered me. LIke I said earlier though I want to full review him over the next couple of days.

 

[ranmaru]

Talk to me more about Laser. What do you dislike there?

 

[BoomFrog]

It is absolutely wild to me that you guys are giving UP a pass for "being confident". Like, the dude has shown zero actual content. His reads list is unjustified which let's the reader full in the blank with what they think could explain it. And when he's called out on something weird he has just said "I don't remember" or "I've updated since then" or "it's a gut read". All his energy is put in defense. And without even giving a reason for missing the D1 lynch he's already excused. This is classic active lurking.

Just what the actual ****? You guys say this is different then how he played as scum before, but people try new things. Especially, when they end up scum a bunch of times in a row, it seems pretty reasonable that he'd try out a "**** it all" confident attitude and just mess around. Can anyone point out a single place he's shown town intent this game?

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm more sus of BF but want to wait to see if he brings up some specific points.

I don't have much loaded in the cannon so you might as well bring these points up and ask me why I didn't. Fair is fair.

 

[Jackrito]

Talk to me more about Laser. What do you dislike there?

I dislike how everything they does feels calculated, they always come in with one big decent post to get people off their back, I have seen very real time interactions with people, this worries me because some people find it hard to do more casual talk as scum, so just spend time on thier posts to make it sound right which is how I feel about him. My next issue is how little impact they have, I was one of their top scum reads because of my reaction to their gambit with Wisp, but they never did anything with it just kept calling me out especially. If they did that gambit as a reaction test why have they done nothing with the results. It's not like I was not a target to push since you and others were.

My view on why they never pushed me is because they don't want any real attention and just let the game pass by while we all eat each other alive. If they are scum this points to they have a teammate who can control the narrative to keep heat off them, Or they have little confidence as scum in general, This is all off he top of my head once I have time to review game I can build on this. Laser has always being in my top scum apart from my last readlist where they went out a bit because of how bad others looked that has changed now.

 

[Sabrar]

I don't have much loaded in the cannon so you might as well bring these points up and ask me why I didn't. Fair is fair.

Just to be clear on something, based on your most recent posts. You're scum-reading both UP and myself, correct?

 

[ranmaru]

Jackrito What do you think of my point that Laser hadn't bothered to discuss the Boom v Sabrar interaction?

 

[Wiisp]

I mean BoomFrog
you shade on UP, probably always make you a wolf
if not just his partner as well

 

[ranmaru]

Wiisp What do you dislike about my laser scum read?

 

[Jackrito]

Jackrito What do you think of my point that Laser hadn't bothered to discuss the Boom v Sabrar interaction?

I think that it is a decent point espically if he does have meta on them, I have limited meta exp with most here but still using what little I have. Most of my read on Wisp is build off how I know him. So Laser lack of input on this points to not wanting to get involved and see what happens.

 

[Wiisp]

Laser is scum for doing a gambit that gives him a good read, and a good appearance, and then being more lack luster than Jack. It was also odd to see Laser not comment on Sabrar v Boom, which I feel would be important for him to do so since he should have meta on Sabrar and Boom. There's no real other posts I can point to that reveals Laser as scum. It's simply that Laser's motivations lean toward a scum motivation of 'appearing town' without doing much else to progress town. Laser's #1231 also gives me the feeling that he seems to not have an un-informed feeling, not trying to sort or do anything, sort of just sitting there waiting for the flip.

the first part is stupid imo, don't think wolves play like that
cause its like 4d chess where you have to believe people will just be like, "Ya Wolves don't pretend to have a post restriction"
when in reality most players are shallow and will just think you are a wolf anyways

The best thing about him was his wall, but he has most certainly fallen off
I agree his motivations feel more like a wolf trying to look town

 

[Jackrito]

the first part is stupid imo, don't think wolves play like that
cause its like 4d chess where you have to believe people will just be like, "Ya Wolves don't pretend to have a post restriction"
when in reality most players are shallow and will just think you are a wolf anyways

The best thing about him was his wall, but he has most certainly fallen off
I agree his motivations feel more like a wolf trying to look town

Most wolfs don't claim a blue check on their teammate either though lol, we both know that scum range can include anything.

 

[ranmaru]

I mean, my point is that he has fallen off. He has been inconsistent. (With the scum motivation to appear town) The wall was good.

 

[Wiisp]

lmao... I won't do that ever again

 

[ranmaru]

Boom: What do you think about my points on Laserguy? Will respond about UP later.

 

[Pokechu]

Wiisp
UtopianPoyzin
Ranmaru
Laser
Z25
BoomFrog
Sabrar
Jackrito

I'm caught up on everything but I read most of the thread in one sitting (I took one break halfway) so most of the "pings" in my notes are from the first half of the thread when I had the most stamina. + I feel like towards the end the thread just became "will we won't we lynch Ninja" and posts just pinged me less strongly. If someone wants me to respond to something specific though, fire it at me! And if you need something cleared up just ask, I started this last night so it might not all be articulate lmao

Spoiler: Wiisp

Spoiler: Poyzin

Spoiler: Ranmaru

Spoiler: LaserGuy

Spoiler: Z25

Spoiler: BoomFrog

Spoiler: Sabrar

Spoiler: Jackrito

 

[Sabrar]

UtopianPoyzin : I lied. One last question regarding RVS.
In #13 you justify your vote-switch to me because you didn't like my opener. That was before my #35 in which (according to you) I justified my RVS on LaserGuy. You later state that it was obvious that my opener wasn't serious. So if your switch was a joke then why did you feel the need to justify it? Double standard much?

 

[BoomFrog]

Just to be clear on something, based on your most recent posts. You're scum-reading both UP and myself, correct?

No, UP is scum, you are town.

 

[Jackrito]

I thought this was obvious,but based off Pokechu case on me clearly not, my initial vote on laser was not because I thought for certain he was scum. It was half a pressure vote to try and get them out of that nonsense. I already explained that I don't have time to decripher emotes all day or want to. I took the vote off once that goal was reached and their reasons for it were fine. I'm back to scumreading them for reasons that are not connected to if scum would do it or not. My only issue with it now is the lack of use he got out of something he clearly had a purpose for. Well that and the other factors listed a bit ago.

Also saying I was noncommital to Laser, but scumreading me for my intial commitment is questionable to say the least. Having me as bottom on their list only for my approach to Laser is weird to me especially when Laser could still be scum here.

Add that to his top town being Wisp and UP I find very weird they are up there, especially their points on Wisp which he can easily do as scum. I know that I also townread Wisp but that is off a deeper understanding of him. His points on Up being town also feel a bit on the weak side.

I just find that overall post Pokechu did very lacking for a reread and too much focus on one incident, that even the person who did it does not seem to care about.

 

[Sabrar]

No, UP is scum, you are town.

Okay. The only thing I could find where you justify me being town is #1397. Did you think of that reason during the Night? If yes, what was the point of your question in #1393? I doubt my answer played any role in your evaluation of me and I can't see any other reason why I would go from second scummiest to town-read.

 

[Sabrar]

ranmaru

He asks me why Boom being scum invalidates my case of Ninja, and how I can resolve my #405 from Town!Ninja. This doesn't make sense when he believes Ninja is town.

It had very little to do with how I viewed Ninja at the time and much more with how your logic works. Your #912 didn't make sense for reasons already explained.

I ask him if he sees my point on Boom likely positioning himself on Ninja's flip, and he states that he can see Boom suggesting slips for Ninja so he can argue as town later, implying Ninja!Scum + Boom!Scum. (When I was arguing Boom!scum > Ninja!Town)

I knew what you were arguing, I just had a different pov.

 

[Z25]

Yeah, agreed we should REALLY stop claiming in general. Also, I'm VERY confident Ran is town, so can we please move past that paranoia?

Without further claiming. Z25 why did you feel the need to essentially claim worse then vanilla town? You should be aware vanilla town claiming is bad for town, right?

Sabrar We have some more headbutting to do before I trust you but I need to go to bed like an hour ago. How can games like WoTIII where I spent all of day 2 defending Vicarin and the two cop theory not spring to mind? I spend like half of my games vigorously defending someone no one else trusts.

Because that’s my actual role and it showed me these tokens of an item giver is at play. If Wisp got them then they means they are likely town, as I can’t say I’ve seen mods given scum tokens.

Regardless that information tells flavor can be worth paying attention to here which is why I also suggested a flavor claim.

I'm glad to see Wisp efforting this phase. I'm curious about scumreads from Pokechu , Jackrito and Z25 today. Lot's of discussion, not enough voting.

My scum list today is Pokechu because I still think Maven was Scum and I find Pokechu’s entrance poor. They seem to have learned nothing from flavorless about players.

Laser I think you made a good case in. After all I said this multiple times yesterday their play was exactly like Nabe’s day one here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-phantom-mafia-so-this-is-how-liberty-dies.458563/

Boom is a potential candidate to. I want to trust Up more because of his role because I can’t see the benefit for scum having that power unless it was to make scum seem town. That be a weird way to do so though.

I agree that we really need to look at Laser first
Today.

the first part is stupid imo, don't think wolves play like that
cause its like 4d chess where you have to believe people will just be like, "Ya Wolves don't pretend to have a post restriction"
when in reality most players are shallow and will just think you are a wolf anyways

The best thing about him was his wall, but he has most certainly fallen off
I agree his motivations feel more like a wolf trying to look town

Wolves absolutely play that way. Read day one here, specifically Nabe:

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-phantom-mafia-so-this-is-how-liberty-dies.458563/
Nabe was godfather here btw.

Wiisp
UtopianPoyzin
Ranmaru
Laser
Z25
BoomFrog
Sabrar
Jackrito

I'm caught up on everything but I read most of the thread in one sitting (I took one break halfway) so most of the "pings" in my notes are from the first half of the thread when I had the most stamina. + I feel like towards the end the thread just became "will we won't we lynch Ninja" and posts just pinged me less strongly. If someone wants me to respond to something specific though, fire it at me! And if you need something cleared up just ask, I started this last night so it might not all be articulate lmao

Spoiler: Wiisp

Spoiler: Poyzin

Spoiler: Ranmaru

Spoiler: LaserGuy

Spoiler: Z25

Spoiler: BoomFrog

Spoiler: Sabrar

Spoiler: Jackrito

Ive explained this to you before, you’ve played enough games with me to understand my behavior.

I’m not going to ignore potshots which is exactly what UP did in that post you complained about my response too, yet you say nothing about that.

Also just because you think my points were harsh doesn’t make them wrong or anti town. Same could be said for several things you quoted here.

Lastly a neighborhood is suppose to work as a team, so having laser ignore that and not respond beforehand is something I think didn’t look good combined with the emoji position/ because again scum fake that.

I’ve linked a great example of that twice in this post so you should read that too.

 

[Sabrar]

Pokechu

Find it super disingenuous of him to try and make Poyzin argue a possibility that is blatantly unlikely.

The underlined is incorrect. I did the same thing in the last game I modded (i.e given a scummy role to a townie precisely because I expected players to think otherwise). I also played in a game where Xivii was present and I was given a role as scum that previously was town. That possibility is very far from 'blatantly unlikely'.

It seems like you are focusing on the scenario if you're asking Poy about it.

No, UP was the one focusing on finding the scum in the neighborhood. I just questioned his whole premise.

What does it mean to chainsaw? I've not heard the term before

"defending another player by attacking the other player's attacker"

And this post from Sab kind of goes hand in hand with his others talking about he's not focusing on an all-town neighborhood. Like I feel like when he's nailing Poy for this that he kind of is?

I wasn't focusing on any kind of neighborhood. The neighborhood thing doesn't influence my reads at all and I would like having everybody follow my example.

 

[Z25]

Reading this almost made me pee myself. Hilarious, but what makes it funnier is that it's not wrong. McLoving it!

Poy's done some really really good stuff but some really really bad stuff. I don't like how he disappeared halfway through D1 but he did something similar in Flavorless so I'm willing to look past it for now. I also think that his roleclaim gives him a lot more credibility as I couldn't see that role for scum. But crazier things have happened!

And here we see the wild Pokechu’s bias towards UP in full force. It’s ok when someone they have bias towards makes shots at other players but not when someone they could care less for does.

Thus makes the read list overall a lot poorly imo

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy Who's scum today?

Probably Jackrito.

-Their vote on 3DS is very opportunistic. He was reading 3DS as unlikely to be scum in #263, #356, #418, then when he sees that you are serious about pushing Ninja, flips his opinion of him and supports the lynch.
-He is being deliberately slippery/hedgy in his analysis to avoid committing to any strong positions. E.g. #54, #155, #314, #356, #621. I feel like he is more interested in keeping on good terms with you and Wiisp than with actually trying to solve the game.

##Jackrito

I am thinking about Z25 as I don't like basically any of their content today. The rolefishing he was doing pings me a lot. Wiisp has made some good points about him as well. I will try to do a full reread of him in my evening post.

UP and Maven slot are still on my radar. I'm liking BoomFrog more at the moment.

I mean, my point is that he has fallen off. He has been inconsistent. (With the scum motivation to appear town) The wall was good.

Almost like I have limited opportunities to post and can't monitor the thread constantly so I'm always trying to catch up. I'm sure I've mentioned this before at some point or other. I had the same problem in that game we played in Serene Forest and you scumread for me it then too (we were both Town). I think the people who are using this to scumread me (particularly Jack) are probably looking for an excuse to push me without needing to analyse what I've actually posted.

 

[Z25]

While I still take issues with Pokechu, I still want to give them a chance, let’s see if their content can impress more than in flavorless.

Right now the bigger problem I think lies in:

##Vote:Laser

 

[Sabrar]

Pokechu

I think Ranmaru's style just really really frustrates me because it's very dominant and commandeering, but I can't deny that he's had a willingness to solve and analyze throughout the game.

This post shows how Jack keeps flip flopping with his reads. He put the Laser vote out, Laser revealed, Jack took it away, now Jack's still scumreading him. I think that if town, Jack would stick to one side more and not go back and forth. Why the inconsistency? Just weird to me imo if town

Ranmaru literally was all over the place, changing his mind constantly about who was scum. Why does this behavior equal scummyness when it comes to Jack?

 

[Z25]

Probably Jackrito.

-Their vote on 3DS is very opportunistic. He was reading 3DS as unlikely to be scum in #263, #356, #418, then when he sees that you are serious about pushing Ninja, flips his opinion of him and supports the lynch.
-He is being deliberately slippery/hedgy in his analysis to avoid committing to any strong positions. E.g. #54, #155, #314, #356, #621. I feel like he is more interested in keeping on good terms with you and Wiisp than with actually trying to solve the game.

##Jackrito

I am thinking about Z25 as I don't like basically any of their content today. The rolefishing he was doing pings me a lot. Wiisp has made some good points about him as well. I will try to do a full reread of him in my evening post.

UP and Maven slot are still on my radar. I'm liking BoomFrog more at the moment.



Almost like I have limited opportunities to post and can't monitor the thread constantly so I'm always trying to catch up. I'm sure I've mentioned this before at some point or other. I had the same problem in that game we played in Serene Forest and you scumread for me it then too (we were both Town). I think the people who are using this to scumread me (particularly Jack) are probably looking for an excuse to push me without needing to analyse what I've actually posted.

I still you aren’t reading.

I didn’t role fish for one.

I flavored fish because I am 100 percent certain scum will all flip with one thing in common in their flavor.

Im debating weather or not I should say what that is but this game is very similar to one we had a while back where there was a theme between new and old.
Regardless Flavor fishing is not role fishing. I could care less about who can do what, I wanted to see if people would claim users as I think that’s the key to nailing scum.

 

[Pokechu]

Ive explained this to you before, you’ve played enough games with me to understand my behavior.

I’m not going to ignore potshots which is exactly what UP did in that post you complained about my response too, yet you say nothing about that.

Also just because you think my points were harsh doesn’t make them wrong or anti town. Same could be said for several things you quoted here.

Lastly a neighborhood is suppose to work as a team, so having laser ignore that and not respond beforehand is something I think didn’t look good combined with the emoji position/ because again scum fake that.

I’ve linked a great example of that twice in this post so you should read that too.

And here we see the wild Pokechu’s bias towards UP in full force. It’s ok when someone they have bias towards makes shots at other players but not when someone they could care less for does.

Thus makes the read list overall a lot poorly imo

He wasn't wrong and his post was just snarky instead of rude. There's a different between being a butt and a butthole. Poy was being a butt but you were the butthole LMAO

I don't see how it makes the read list overall poor. Not everything centers around you Embarrass sorry sweetie but Poy has my heart Just because you don't like what I said about you doesn't mean that the whole list is bad

I also did explicitly say that even though I didn't like how you were going about your points, they didn't have an impact on your alignment. I was in the game you linked so I know about Nake's fake silence claim, I was his scummate LOL but I don't think we should inherently look at Laser as scummy because of it, because that's just one game.

 

[Z25]

He wasn't wrong and his post was just snarky instead of rude. There's a different between being a butt and a butthole. Poy was being a butt but you were the butthole LMAO

I don't see how it makes the read list overall poor. Not everything centers around you Embarrass sorry sweetie but Poy has my heart Just because you don't like what I said about you doesn't mean that the whole list is bad

I also did explicitly say that even though I didn't like how you were going about your points, they didn't have an impact on your alignment. I was in the game you linked so I know about Nake's fake silence claim, I was his scummate LOL but I don't think we should inherently look at Laser as scummy because of it, because that's just one game.

Snarky and rude are literally the same terms.

And you could still benefit from a re read. And just one game isn’t really valid when scum plays in mafia all fall into similar patterns

 

[Z25]

Regardless Pokechu expain to me how Wisp your top town read doesn’t ping you by refusing to comment on players yesterday?
It’s fine to town read try them, but it’s not fine to ignore things like that.

 

[Pokechu]

Snarky and rude are literally the same terms.

And you could still benefit from a re read. And just one game isn’t really valid when scum plays in mafia all fall into similar patterns

If I swore at Poy that's rude. If I said his posts were so sick they gave me COVID-19 that's snark LOL

Like if you're just going around discrediting everyone with a valid complaint, that's rude and a very poor look. But Poy was right to point out how your bottom three was the most common, especially when you couldn't find a fourth.

Honestly not interested in rereading (at least not at this moment) because replacing in is hard enough and I don't like living in the past. It can help at times but I don't think one piece of meta is something to take with you for years on end

 

[Z25]

Moving on in Pokechu’s list, Ran”s ninja post refers tO he reaction you quoted it seems not the content in that indivual post, but also the content in Ninja’s other posts.

So I think it was less that post was good but Ran thought other posts were good

 

[Pokechu]

Regardless Pokechu expain to me how Wisp your top town read doesn’t ping you by refusing to comment on players yesterday?
It’s fine to town read try them, but it’s not fine to ignore things like that.

It shows that they don't care how people are reading them, but it's also not threatening like 3DS' "vote me if you want! I don't care!!!"

Like it shows Wiisp is going with his own rhythm, doing what he thinks needs to be done, and he's not letting anyone interfere with that. And I think he said he'd comment on them today right? + He seemed to have been genuinely busy (I remember a post of his that said something like he already spent much more time than what he was going to on this game). His roleclaim helps too because I don't think scum would have what seems to be a lynchproof ability. That'd suck in LyLo

 

[LaserGuy]

Lastly a neighborhood is suppose to work as a team, so having laser ignore that and not respond beforehand is something I think didn’t look good combined with the emoji position/ because again scum fake that.

I was trying to read you and 3DS as well as everyone else. If I told you what I was doing beforehand it would have contaminated my reads of you and reduced the value of the exercise.

I flavored fish because I am 100 percent certain scum will all flip with one thing in common in their flavor.

Flavor appears to be connected to roles. Mod has already indicated in the OP that roles are randomly assigned and therefore not connected to alignment.