Oak's Laboratory - The Mechanics and Advanced Techniques of Pokémon Trainer

[humble]

If we could control the leaves it'd be a great help to ivy's game, someone please find this thread.

 

[Zigsta]

Here's the thread:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242396

 

[CoonTail]

Thats not my guide tho zigsta I've looked through so of this info and it is correct but you kno what.....Ill take the time to find it now ya bastads

*EDIT*- correction zigsta that did lead to my guide so I guess Im the foolish one but here is the guide T-Blizzy so you can put this in the Ivy AT section.....

Ok so after serious amounts of time testing out razor leaf and studying it I have found the actual patterns of the leaves and have found certain ways to control the actual leaves. To start I must first explain the first thing I found while studying razor leaf.......razor leaf will on the regular throw "stray leaves" or leaves that drift away from the opponent. These leaves I am sure many of us have seen and if you were researching razor leaf this concept would have infuriated you due to that fact that it makes findings mean nothing all the time and overall can create counter arguments to all the work I have done. "Stray leaves" can happen up to 1 out of every 2 leaves you throw. Overall the average stray occurs once every 3 leaves, 3 out of ten leaves in most cases were stray leaves.

Now that stray leaves have been explained now its down to all the info about the path the leaves take. To start the leaves can travel two ways, first the leaf has a spin to it which will determine lifespan and the more circular and faster that leaf spins will cause the leaf not only to cover more distance but it will take longer due to the more distance covered. Second the leaf can angle upwards and downwards and due to this angle the overall lifespan of a leaf can be questioned. If it gets an upward angle the leaf will most likely miss the opponent and drift off, where as when you get a leaf to travel at a downwards angle it is almost promised that you will get perfect spin and speed on it. Overall the best outcome I have seen from this is having the leaf spin in full circles at a downward angle with full speed, these I will define as perfect leaves. This bears the best results will almost always hit the opponent and will always make it through shields.

Next if you are grounded throwing razor leaves you cut you possibilities of stray leaves quite and bit. Throwing razor leaves while on the ground for me seemed to have 8 to 9 out of 10 leaves travel in a straight path with the leaf spinning in perfect circles. If you throw the leaves in the air this is where research became tricker. So to start being in the air causes a higher chance of stray leaves, while in the air there were times where I threw up to 6 out of 10 stray leaves, obviously not good. It is not only being in the air that raises chances of stray leaves but it is actually being in the air without drifting that raises the chances of stray leaves. Crazy Im sure it seems but when drifting back or forward with the leaves you will have way higher chances of throwing perfect leaves as earlier stated. The big find I had to truely throw perfect leaves is to time your landing so that all 4 of ivy's paws hit the ground right as you throw the leaf, the timing is a bit of a pain but once I had it down I threw 10 perfect leaves in a row on at least 5 different occasions. The leaf has to start to travel right as ivy's paws are on the floor and the perfect leaves just start to happen.

I tested out holding directions and c stick directions but no 100% way to throw or control the leaves came from it. In short it seems that you can throw perfect leaves or stray leaves and there are difference is the only one I found which was having all four of ivy's paws hit the floor as you throw it. If anyone else has found ways to control the leaves I hope I am not being redundant, but I have put alot of effort into finding this all out and the timing is not easy at all but once you get it I promise at least 9 out of 10 perfect leaves on average.

Lastly my most recent findings on all of this is if you B-stick razor leafs along with the techniques in this guide such as landing on all four paws as you throw the leaves or if you b-stick them in general it produces ALOT more perfect leaves.
The whole reason landing on four paws as your throw the leaves helps too is because the game sees it as the leaves being throw from the ground and as I stated grounded leaves tend to be perfect blades more. With that landing on all fours just keeps you closer to 9 out of 10 perfect leaves....so just some more key information for this

 

[Venusaur Trainer]

Thanks Ice_Coon and Zigsta for the L-grab tip. I've finally mastered it.

 

[CoonTail]

Np homie.....L grabbing is where it's at son

 

[Magik0722]

Really everyone should just join the Classic Controller Master Race, everything becomes easier.

 

[CoonTail]

Hahaha sorry magik but I just converted one of NY's power ranked players back to GC controller so I don't think you'll like my opinion

 

[Steeler]

magik are you referring to the master race that is incapable of participating in the largest brawl tournaments this year?

 

[Magik0722]

Where is your god now?

Looks like the Master Race wins again.

You don't happen to mean those series of tournaments that are played on laggy TVs do you?

 

[Venusaur Trainer]

Really everyone should just join the Classic Controller Master Race, everything becomes easier.

First thing I noticed when I played Brawl for the first time, is that there was no movement detection on the main menu. It was quite surprising considering that was the wii's main feature. I even remember waving my remote controller trying to get it work.
It was like the game designers already foresaw that noone would be using the wiimote over the GC\classic controller.

 

[T-block]

it's too hard to move horizontally with the control stick down there >_> why would you need the d-pad where your thumb naturally rests for brawl?

 

[Magik0722]

What was that? The Master Race Wins again?

 

[Steeler]

that's not even a classic controller. hori may name it that, but it's a gcn controller with traditional a/b/x/y button layout.

 

[Magik0722]

its a classic controller with the joystick and the dpad switched.

 

[CoonTail]

Lol magik your trying to hard when you honestly could just be using GC controllers....if you hate them that bad then just say it you dont have to sit here and show us pics of altered classic controllers coming closer and closer to GC controllers

Honestly it looks like from you pics the classic controller is evolving into a GC controller so.......

GC controller > classic controller if evolution is going towards a GC controller

 

[Magik0722]

The classic controller and GCN are already similar in button layout, what really makes the difference is that Y button for the classic controller, it is better positioned for brawl.

Try to do a falco sideb immediately after a jump with a classic controller, its extremely easy because the jump button is right next to the b button.
Now try it on a GCN controller, the jump button is much farther away, Also the A button is in the path between the two so you have you "jump" your thumb over the A button than to the b button which is farther away to do it.

Next look how closer the jump button is to the C stick, it allows it to be much more easier to do aerials immediately after a jump, practical use would be doing wolfs fair to autocancel, since you have to immediately do the fair in order to autocancel it is much easier on the classic controller.
On the GCN the jump button is almost an entire inch away from the c stick, also both the B and A button are in the way, so you have to jump over both of them and move your thumb an inch to get to the c stick.

Also the classic controller has zL button, which you can set to another command such as jump, this makes it easy to do moves such as jump canceling throw-items and forward hydroplanes




tl;dr
Classic Controller Master Race.

 

[CoonTail]

Magik I deffinitly understand your points those are not my arguement.....you just kept showing picutres making the classic controller more and more like the GC controller.

If the classic controller is superior in your opinion why merge the two it doesnt change much at all really besides making a GC controller user have a similar feel.

Overall I have no qualms about the GC controller at all I have enormus hands and sliding from jump to any other button is a motion I called "The flick" in melee that passed into brawl due to my heavy use of the c-stick constantly. After that I altered my controls to further simplify all hands motions such as making L grab and Z my B button just to aid my reaction time,

I see your point about the pros of the classic controller I just don't understand why the pictures you posted are trying to get it as similar to the GC controller as possible......doesn't the master race not want that?

 

[Magik0722]

The first one simply made it wired, i dont see how that is trying to become a GC controller, its just using the GC port.

The second one was simply a variation for people like t-block


Thats the best part about the Master Race, Variations done right. You want a different gamecube controller? Enjoy this lol

 

[CoonTail]

Hahahaha well thats a low blow figuring its a mad catz controller........not even close to an official GC controller because everything else is literally on madcats level.

I was just trying to figure out why the controllers you were showing were getting more and more similar to GC ones......and I guess I got my answer lol

 

[iamjason8]

Wow amazing thread, thanks so much! ^^

I never knew about moves of non-Pokemon characters being typed. O.O

Lol Squirtle has so much AT, and there's a lot going against Ivysaur.

 

[Buuda]

I <3 GC controllers. Bear-clawing ftw.

 

[Ingoro]

God, I'm really strugglin to do a perfect shellshifted downsmash & Hydrograb. My hydrograb mostly turns out into the regular Fsmash.

 

[Magik0722]

a fsmash? i think you are pressing the c-stick in the wrong direction, that or you are pressing it extremely late.

 

[Ingoro]

I run to the right, shellshift then press Z & C in the right direction. Is this wrong? should I be pressing C in the left direction then? Btw I have no trouble whatsoever doing any of the shellshifts with U/F-smash involved.

 

[Magik0722]

Z&C? are you using a wiimote or something?

 

[Ingoro]

Isn't a hydrograb performed by using the C-stick and Z button at the same time? That's what I'm trying to do and no, my c-stick isn't set on Specials.

 

[Magik0722]

you use the cstick + a sheild button, you dont press Z at all

 

[T-block]

How to perform- Do a shellshift, then hit R and c-stick away from the direction you're facing.

Is that unclear?

Shortly after your pivot, hit shield. Then after a short delay (time between Charizard's jabs-ish) tap the c-stick backwards.

 

[Ingoro]

The guide says use the Z button and the C-stick. However I have been able to do it several times in a row with the R button, so thanks Magik. Do you got any advice how to do the downsmash shellshift at full range?


@ T-Block: Sorry, I find it hard to do this consisantly. The timing itself is pretty tricky. I don't think it was unclear, but that additional info you gave made it even more clear.

 

[Magik0722]

However I have been able to do it several times in a row with the R button, so thanks Magik. Do you got any advice how to do the downsmash shellshift at full range?

Why would you even want to learn it? it sucks.

 

[T-block]

Which guide are you looking at? o.o

Can you do hydroplane f-smash consistently? D-smash is the same timing, just different c-stick angle.

 

[Ingoro]

Coz I like it a lot, I believe it has potential


@ T-Block, ehh sorry I might come off a bit confusing to you guys, english isn't my main language. For some reason I can't do D-smash consistently while F-smash is super easy. Maybe it's my controller..

 

[Kith]

Why would you even want to learn it? it sucks.

I'm actually incorporating it into my game a bit now (After Hydrostalling). I pulled off a hydro-stalled d-smash to jab lock twice today :-)

 

[Zigsta]

I'm actually incorporating it into my game a bit now (After Hydrostalling). I pulled off a hydro-stalled d-smash to jab lock twice today :-)

Kith, we need new videos of you, man!

For you new PTs, Kith is by far the most technical Squirtle out there. Some of his discoveries have even gotten Reflex to change his playstyle.

Also, take out Polt from your sig. He belongs with us now.

 

[Toby.]

I smile every time I see your Sig, Zig. 'Criticist' indeed

 

[Zigsta]

I smile every time I see your Sig, Zig. 'Criticist' indeed

I loved it the moment I saw it, haha.

 

[Kith]

Kith, we need new videos of you, man!

For you new PTs, Kith is by far the most technical Squirtle out there. Some of his discoveries have even gotten Reflex to change his playstyle.

Also, take out Polt from your sig. He belongs with us now.

Crap that's right XD WHYEE POOOLT!!

 

[Ingoro]

What kind of discoveries did Kith made then? Coz You're making me really curious now Zigsta

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Here's what you're looking for--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PrCcuSqAHU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9vzwNWUZWA

 

[StarGalaxy777]

Is there anyway someone here would be able to show me what im doing wrong and show me somethings i may not quite know >_>

Sorry for bumping this but Id like to let my voice be heard