np 1-2: Fly Fly Fly

[CRASHiC]

That post made my head spin LOL PUNS.

 

[mood4food77]

SR is broken in this metagame because lilibelle and gengar are gonna be awesome
but i do agree, this metagame is super fast

lilibelle and infernape are gonna run rampant

 

[Wave⁂]

Kay, Nape is already rampant, and I just said Lilibelle ain't so great.

 

[CRASHiC]

Lili has yet to do anything close to rampant. She hasn't even destroyed a single team yet.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

In fact, I took Ulti's Lilibelle down with Toxic Stall from Milotic+Mismagius.

Of course, if it had Immunity...

 

[UltiMario]

Now, here's the problem with Lili.

It was absolutely designed for a Latias metagame. Without Latias, Heatran and Nape run rampant with no real counter. You could make an extremely scary core of Latas+Machamp+Lili+Sharpedo. With Latias gone, Lili is absolutely terrible compared to a Latias metagame. Right now Lili's only hope are stalling or anti-metagame sets, if we brought Latias back though, that's where Lili is the threat that I was explaining back when we first made her.

For my other opinions, I'll give each of the Pokemon I've tested enough a tiering, then explain my reasonings.

Sharpedo- OU. We did this one perfectly. He's the best revenge killer in the game, the new Scizor. Frailer, but has better priority. Teams prepare to take care of Scizor, but ones that do that will be exposed to Sharpedo, this guy can sweep on his own if you've dealt a bit of damage around beforehand.

Rampardos- UU/BL. It gets OHKO'd by nearly every priority in the game, sure, QuakeSmash is one of the most deadly move combos in the entire game, especially coming from a nearly un-revengable (without priority) speed stat of 534 on a Neutral Nature.... It's got one problem.... It has a GIGANTIC base 165 Attack stat.... but Skarmory and Bronzong still come into it and stop it dead in its tracks. Sharpedo doesn't help either. I haven't done testing with Rampardos in UU for obvious reasons, so I don't know how it does in there, but with lots of Azumarril and Hitmontop I'd think it would be balanced, but you never know.

Typhlosion- NU. He accomplished nothing with these new moves. He needs Grass Knot and some stat re-distributing (Typlosion is sitting on the line for "highest starter stats" with a few others, so we can't buff him) to accomplish anything. I wouldn't use him over Heatran unless it was 1v1 against another Tran. I also have done enough matches against SV to know that the ever-present Milotic takes hits from HP Grass like Skarmory takes Caterpie Tackles. Useless.

Jumpluff- OU. Jumpluff is an annoyance and a menace in a similar way Wob is Uber. It annoys the living **** out of you and lets frail/set-up Pokemon come in easier. SR is the only thing holding Pluff back at this point. Now, a lot of people have been crying Uber for the Pluff like Wob being able to support teams so well, which to an extent is true, seeing as Jumpluff has the potential to cripple 2 Pokemon and cause 3 switches if you predict right. I really haven't seen anyone else use Jumpluff correctly though, so I'll wait until you guys catch up before making my final call on this.

Exploud- UU. Unfortunately for Exploud here, his best partner is Jumpluff, trapped in OU. Only Skiploom (who DOES get Trick, but must rely on Sleep Powder... Yeah I did that ) is his savior for free switch-ins now, but that doesn't stop him from being a threat. I've found that Exploud can do serious damage with a DD set, Hitmontop and the like might revenge him, but it's a menace for unprepared teams. Why is it only UU though? Mence, DNite, and Kingdra completely outclass it. An OU set would be DD/IPunch/EQ/Fire Blast, look Familiar? It should. Replace Ice Punch with Outrage. Yeah. Being frailer than Mence and slower.... and weaker.. doesn't help. I don't see any other viable sets for Ploud at this time (unless we give him Baton Pass), so that's that. Maybe we'll figure out something later, he certainly wants a Special Dragon Dance if one happens, though.

Electrode- ...No idea. Don't get me wrong here, Electrode being the fastest Taunter AND SRer in the game is certainly a name you want to bear but..... does that make him any better? Sure, Roserade got to OU on the Lead Train exclusively but... the only redeeming thing Electrode has is SR, Taunt, and Speed. Explosion is nice and all, but it doesn't really... dent anything.. It only really KOs frail Pokemon. I mean, this thing will stand solidly in UU and OU... but how much tier hopping does it really deserve?

Luxray- You forgot to list it in the OP. UU. Luxray really appreciates the Motor Drive, Volt Tackle, U-Turn, and Flamethrower... but it's really only Volt Tackle that's bringing it up a tier. Flamethrower forces out Milotic, Volt Tackle destroys it, it's just got some decent moves, but really, it's slow, not too bulky.. Sure it can sweep with a Motor Drive boost... but if you have a priority user or a Scarfer it's going to kill like, what, Milotic, and then be so low on HP due to LO and VT recoil, then it's going to die to anything. Jolteon and Electivire (!!!!, saying a lot with that last part there) outclass it with speed, power, and bulk among one or the other, Jolteon doesn't need to get in on electric moves either. It's outclassed in OU and in UU it does a good job of keeping things in check, that's all I'll give it for now.

I'll test whoever I didn't list in more detail today.

 

[Wave⁂]

Rampardos ***** Bronzong with Earthquake, and Skarmory is 2HKOed by Fire Punch. It's easily taken down by priority, but the fact that every team kind of needs priority bugs me.

Also Jumpluff is countered by Stealth Rocks.

 

[Circa]

Sharpedo may actually be the missing puzzle piece that kept my favorite Suspect team from functioning as a normal OU team.

It may not fit its theme anymore, but idc. Sharpedo is 2kewl.

...that's all I can say about the OU guys so far. I might make a team for Exploud or maybe Calderan later if I'm feeling up to it.

 

[mood4food77]

lilibelle with the right spread is a ***** to even 2HKO
only infernape and heatran are counters

salamence has to watch for will-o-wisp
tyranitar takes a lot from a focus blast and has to watch for will-o-wisp
energy ball OHKOs sharpedo when Bite fails to OHKO lili
scizor can't take repeated shadow balls and only has Pursuit to deal damage (in which is like a 3HKO if lilibelle doesn't switch out)

it's still a beast, it's just infernape and heatran are such a force, that it lessens her value

we also should look for UU pokes that could fair better in our metagame

Electrode is OU if jumpluff and sharpedo aren't buffed, it's just that they're amazing anti-leads that electrode's worth isn't as good

so basically, we limited ourselves to 3 leads now
anti-lead
anti-annoyer lead
and a sacrifice lead

like for electrode to deal with those 2, he's gonna have to carry protect

i have a feeling jumpluff and sharpedo are a tad overpowered

 

[UltiMario]

@Wave:
Did you forget Bronzong has levitate, and that Fire Punch actually has LESS power than Head Smash except when you're hitting Zong, right?

Also I stupidly forgot that I run a buklier-than-average Skarm spread, so ignore my Skarm ramblings.

 

[RuNNing Riot]

@Wave:
Did you forget Bronzong has levitate, and that Fire Punch actually has LESS power than Head Smash except when you're hitting Zong, right?

Also I stupidly forgot that I run a buklier-than-average Skarm spread, so ignore my Skarm ramblings.

Rampardos can have Mold Breaker, you know.

lol, I ninja'd Terywj.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@Wave:
Did you forget Bronzong has Levitate.

Rampardos also has Mold Breaker. Point invalid.

 

[Wave⁂]

Fire Punch actually has LESS power than Head Smash except when you're hitting Zong, right?

Accuracy, recoil, PP, burn chance.

lilibelle with the right spread is a ***** to even 2HKO
only infernape and heatran are counters

salamence has to watch for will-o-wisp
tyranitar takes a lot from a focus blast and has to watch for will-o-wisp
energy ball OHKOs sharpedo when Bite fails to OHKO lili
scizor can't take repeated shadow balls and only has Pursuit to deal damage (in which is like a 3HKO if lilibelle doesn't switch out)

it's still a beast, it's just infernape and heatran are such a force, that it lessens her valued

First off, Infernape and Heatran are on basically every team out there.
Second, everyone knows that counters aren't needed to take down a Pokémon.
Third, you are running Lilibelle with Will-o-Wisp, Energy Ball (lol), Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast. You don't do anything except surprise a couple Tyranitars. You lack recovery. You have ****ty typing.
Fourth, it's not a beast because Infernape and Heatran lessen her value.

 

[mood4food77]

i think she actually fills the concept smogon was trying to do with krilowatt

she can counter certain threats but not all at once

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Can we get this stickied, please?

 

[CRASHiC]

Claydol, Donphan, and my variation on the Blastoise lead can all handle the Electrode lead.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Which Blastoise lead...? Because I don't see how on paper Blastoise handles Electrode. At all.

 

[CRASHiC]

That one electric berry thing. If he hits you, you kill him, you lost about 1/4th your health and he just lost a pokemon for nothing. If he stealth rocks, he's dead, you have a pokemon at full health, and unless he has a ghost, you hrapid spin them away. Chances are that ghost will be Rotom, and Blastoise can kill rotom, even without the berry it won't be a OHKO.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

How does Blastoise kill Electrode? Earthquake, or Water Spout... And how does either help take care of Rotom?

 

[CRASHiC]

Hydro Pump followed by Aqua Jet. I killed Ulti's Electrode with that. I forgot to set his nature the first time, so it didn't do anything.

It takes care of Rotom because at full health, Rotom can't do anything to you, especially with that berry on you. If someone were to make this mistake, you kill both their Rotom and their Electrode, while you end up with one damaged pokemon only, leaving the score 6-4.

 

[Circa]

Static, in all honesty, is probably the scariest thing about Electrode in my eyes. All priority bar Vacuum Wave and Fake Out is contact (and Fake Out is even contact on Shoddy...might be on PO too, haven't tested yet), so with a set of SR/Taunt/Protect/Explosion, he has the ability to set up SR on every lead in the game and can cripple them as well. Except for Hippo/Tyranitar/Abomasnow, for obvious reasons.

Penultimate suicide lead.

 

[UltiMario]

252HP Trode is underrated, it can survive LO Jolly Sharpedo FO + AJ, forcing Sharpedos to run Adamant AND Life Orb to win (unless you give Trode with 252HP and a +Def Nature, in which Sharpedo can never 2HKO), 252HP trode also isn't 2HKO'd by lead Blastoise, giving you the opportunity to blow up on their face.

Trode doesn't need to drop TBolt for protect, if it runs 252HP, nothing kills it anyways.

 

[Wave⁂]

And if you drop Thunederbolt, you can change your nature to Adamant, so you don't hurt your defenses.

 

[UltiMario]

So pretty much I've found that Amphy is useless without being BP'd +2 Spe and a Sub, and Lanturn is similar, Lanturn has SOME potential because of Volt Absorb and good bulk.... but offensive suicune sorta does this better with SpD boosts.

Bastiodon seems like a DECENT wall and can abuse metal burst and yawn...... but.... two common 4x weaknesses don't help... at all...

 

[ss118]

Maybe you guys should take my suggestions for Ampharos.

 

[CRASHiC]

What was that Art?

 

[ss118]

Ampharos- Has No Guard as an ability. Base 100 HP. Electric/ Fighting type.

New moves- Tail Glow, Zap Cannon, DynamicPunch, Healing Wish

With this he will have three standard sets: Sub-Attacker (with Zap Cannon/ DynamicPunch), you can use Tail Glow but he has poor speed(you can play around it by spamming Zap Cannon to slow things down and then sweep with Zap Cannon/ Focus Blast/ Power Gem? lol), and then a dual screen one(Zap Cannon -> appropriate screen -> Healing wish)/

 

[CRASHiC]

Sounds a whole lot better than buffing its speed to try to make ANOTHER sweeper in an already offense based metagame.

 

[Wave⁂]

Oh **** Parafusion.

 

[UltiMario]

Or JUST give it No Guard and Zap Cannon to make it the other side of Machamp, make a good partnership between them or something with Zapdos/Rotom support, it encourages the use of multiple slow, bulky Pokemon to slow down the metagame.

 

[Wave⁂]

This discussion probably shouldn't be here.

Sharpedo counters, go

Also Chain Chomp

 

[mood4food77]

empoleon

i don't think sharpedo can even 3HKO with the right EV spread as Empoleon resists every attack Sharpedo uses
and since sharpedo has tissue-paper like defenses, anything empoleon throws at it is probably a 2HKO

sharpedo learns earthquake, counter fails

 

[UltiMario]

From what I see, Skarm is like the only REAL Sharpedo counter that fears no set and can switch in without caring.

Also Sharpedo learns EQ, M4F, and I use it a lot due to coverage. You have to drop Ice Shard for it though (for coverage reasons, again).

 

[mood4food77]

now that i think of it, what about poliwrath?
i mean, as long as sharpedo doesn't carry earthquake, it wins and if there is a spread that can make earthquake a 3HKO, it would be beastly

starmie beats sharpedo 1-on-1 if it doesn't take a dark attack first

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Poliwrath also has Bulk Up in case extra moves try to do more damage, although lack of insta-recovery limits him.

 

[Wave⁂]

Poliwrath is a good counter. But just because it's useful against one Pokémon doesn't mean it'll be effective in the metagame. It's like using a Scarf Cresselia to take down Garchomp.

 

[mood4food77]

drain punch?

haha (if he learns that)

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Drain Punch isn't exactly reliable, though.

 

[CRASHiC]

Cloyster is a good Sharpedo counter. He also is kind of iffy in the metagame, however once him and Poliwrath get buffs, they'll both be more than adequate additions to the metagame. All Cloyster needs is Shadow Ball and a recovery move, or simply large HP. Also, once we boost Cloyster, he'll also be a great Rampardose counter, fearing only Head Smash and Sword Dance sets, to which he will have to either revenge kill or check.

 

[mood4food77]

i thought we only did NU
both are UU

i think bulkygyarados could work to counter sharpedo, especially since it has intimidate