Now that generic enemies are on the table, who do you want?

[letsgetsmashing]

I don't mind generic enemies, but if I were to name my 100 most wanted Smash characters, I don't think you'd find one in that list. They're just not as appealing as people with personalities, backstories, etc. Not saying no enemies have personalities or backstories, but usually the main and side characters are made to be the interesting ones. And no, I don't consider Bandana Dee or Captain Toad a generic enemy/character anymore than Yoshi. In all honesty, I hope Piranha Plant is the only generic enemy we get as I would rather have more popular and requested characters get in.

 

[fogbadge]

I know Dark Pit is technically a one-shot, but he is likely to reappear if the Kid Icarus Uprising series continues.

Sheik is just an artifact from before the "no Zelda one-shot" rule was created.

yeah pitoo does seem like the kind of character whod stick around while not contributing much to the series

as for the zelda rule can we be sure its rule or just sakurai being biast

 

[Quillion]

I don't mind generic enemies, but if I were to name my 100 most wanted Smash characters, I don't think you'd find one in that list. They're just not as appealing as people with personalities, backstories, etc. Not saying no enemies have personalities or backstories, but usually the main and side characters are made to be the interesting ones. And no, I don't consider Bandana Dee or Captain Toad a generic enemy/character anymore than Yoshi. In all honesty, I hope Piranha Plant is the only generic enemy we get as I would rather have more popular and requested characters get in.

But Smaah is ultimately about Nintendo icons fighting each other any way you slice it. And given that the enemies are starting to be as iconic as specific characters, them being playable makes them fit right in.

yeah pitoo does seem like the kind of character whod stick around while not contributing much to the series

as for the zelda rule can we be sure its rule or just sakurai being biast

The Zelda rule is admittedly speculation, but we are going off of certain patterns regarding Zelda since Brawl, especially regarding the assist trophy choice.

 

[fogbadge]

The Zelda rule is admittedly speculation, but we are going off of certain patterns regarding Zelda since Brawl, especially regarding the assist trophy choice.

that is true

you gotta wonder why hes so reluctant to put in more characters from nintendo's 3rd most successful franchise

 

[verysleepywolf]

Piranha Plant gets in because his moveset is absolutely amazing and 100% unique. Literally the only character in SSB that does what he does. I don't want to see an abundance of enemies as characters, but rather more strange body types that bring something completely new to the roster.

To support the topic; I've wanted Starman from Mother for a long time, something I stopped vocalizing in favor of other characters that make more sense. But I imagine Starman having these hilariously stiff and heroic animations, like he wants to be an inspirational astronaut that little kids look up to. His arms could jointlessly wiggle during attacks, his crouch could be simply standing up straight and facing the camera, his animation for taking damage could be wildly flapping around from the waist up while his arms are still firmly placed on his hips, etc. It would be so hilarious, creative, and jokey.

I'd also like to see a regular Boo with a King Boo final smash, and a fat red octorok just like from Zelda 1 (with all of the abilities Octoroks have been given over the course of the series.)

Enemies should only become characters if they are unique, funny, and unexpected

 

[Peridorito]

If I had to choose another enemy I'd go with Koopa. They are really iconic since Bowser, who's the main Mario villain, is a Koopa.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

But Smaah is ultimately about Nintendo icons fighting each other any way you slice it. And given that the enemies are starting to be as iconic as specific characters, them being playable makes them fit right in.

Not arguing that there isn't enemies that are iconic, but I wouldn't say Piranha Plant is on the same level as Banjo & Kazooie, Bandana Dee, Isaac, Dixie Kong, and others who were not included. I think one or two enemies being playable is fine, but once you start making too many playable it kind of devalues what they are supposed to be.

 

[Quillion]

If I had to choose another enemy I'd go with Koopa. They are really iconic since Bowser, who's the main Mario villain, is a Koopa.

But what can a regular Koopa do that Bowser already can't. Are they just going to be the "small Bowser" that some want Jr. to be?

Not arguing that there isn't enemies that are iconic, but I wouldn't say Piranha Plant is on the same level as Banjo & Kazooie, Bandana Dee, Isaac, Dixie Kong, and others who were not included. I think one or two enemies being playable is fine, but once you start making too many playable it kind of devalues what they are supposed to be.

But the enemies are most certainly iconic characters in themselves. The Mario enemies alone are more iconic than all of the characters you listed.

I'd rather that more enemies come in as playable. I like keeping Smash's horizons broad without having to dip into more third party or even non-video game characters.

 

[Peridorito]

But what can a regular Koopa do that Bowser already can't. Are they just going to be the "small Bowser" that some want Jr. to be?

Koopa could represent all members of the species, like growing wings to fly like a Paratroopa or throwing hammers like a Hammer Bro.

 

[fogbadge]

you know i think a bulborb would actually make quite a good pikmin rep, it could have a mixed moveset like piranha plant

 

[Quillion]

Koopa could represent all members of the species, like growing wings to fly like a Paratroopa or throwing hammers like a Hammer Bro.

Hey, that actually does work. Bowser himself can throw hammers, but if there's no room for that in Smash, they might as well give it to a Koopa.

you know i think a bulborb would actually make quite a good pikmin rep, it could have a mixed moveset like piranha plant

Bulborbs can't exactly do much else than bite, though. That seems to go for the other species as well.

 

[fogbadge]

Bulborbs can't exactly do much else than bite, though. That seems to go for the other species as well.

thats what people might have said about piranha plants

im sure they could manage something based around the biting and kicking and body slamming and the other things like being set on fire and the extending tongues

 

[letsgetsmashing]

But what can a regular Koopa do that Bowser already can't. Are they just going to be the "small Bowser" that some want Jr. to be?



But the enemies are most certainly iconic characters in themselves. The Mario enemies alone are more iconic than all of the characters you listed.

I'd rather that more enemies come in as playable. I like keeping Smash's horizons broad without having to dip into more third party or even non-video game characters.

Piranha Plant is definitely not more iconic than most of the people I listed. How iconic someone is is not the same as how popular they are. Piranha Plant is a recurring enemy in a massive game franchise, which does make him to a certain extent iconic. But I would guarantee more than 50% of people who play a Mario game couldn't tell you the name of Piranha Plant, but would know who Dixie Kong or Banjo was. I'm not a huge fan of 3rd parties either and only really want Banjo & Kazooie and Rayman, and I certainly never mentioned supporting non video game characters being playable. But there is still soo many more Nintendo characters not in Smash that should be, as in my opinion introducing someone from a franchise not already in smash helps represent gaming in whole moreso than putting another Mario character in, and on top of that an enemy less deserving than others Captain Toad > Piranha Plant). Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, Adavance Wars, Sin and Punishment, ARMS, Dillon's Rolling Western, Excitebike... All of the series needed to be repped before another enemy imo.

 

[Jasae Bushae]

Slime.

Failing that, Lolo and Lala would be nice

 

[grizby2]

A bunch of Tinker Bats being controlled by Risky boots in the backround.

 

[Quillion]

Piranha Plant is definitely not more iconic than most of the people I listed. How iconic someone is is not the same as how popular they are. Piranha Plant is a recurring enemy in a massive game franchise, which does make him to a certain extent iconic. But I would guarantee more than 50% of people who play a Mario game couldn't tell you the name of Piranha Plant, but would know who Dixie Kong or Banjo was. I'm not a huge fan of 3rd parties either and only really want Banjo & Kazooie and Rayman, and I certainly never mentioned supporting non video game characters being playable. But there is still soo many more Nintendo characters not in Smash that should be, as in my opinion introducing someone from a franchise not already in smash helps represent gaming in whole moreso than putting another Mario character in, and on top of that an enemy less deserving than others Captain Toad > Piranha Plant). Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, Adavance Wars, Sin and Punishment, ARMS, Dillon's Rolling Western, Excitebike... All of the series needed to be repped before another enemy imo.

Piranha Plant is most certainly an icon; it's one of the original SMB1 enemies that has made an appearance in nearly every main Mario game since.

We can have both unrepped franchises and enemies in Smash. It's not like it needs to be one or the other.
----
All of that said, I'm not exactly sure enemies from third party games are in the running. I think third party characters really do need to be special in a way that main characters are.

 

[ryuu seika]

Hence DQ slime. But still, Shy Guy is best enemy.

 

[Quillion]

Hence DQ slime. But still, Shy Guy is best enemy.

Huh. Are the DQ heroes really so unmemorable that a Slime is the only proper way to rep the series?

 

[Luigifan18]

Huh. Are the DQ heroes really so unmemorable that a Slime is the only proper way to rep the series?

Dragon Quest is similar to Fire Emblem in that most of its "major characters" are one-shots, so the basic monsters, especially the Slime, end up being more emblematic of the series than any of the heroes or villains. (At least Dragon Quest actually has identifiable recurring "characters"... the closest Fire Emblem gets to that (outside of Anna and Jake) is the classes. (I put "characters" in quotation marks because that term is technically supposed to refer to a distinct individual, and Slime, Golem, Dracky, and the other commonly recurring DQ monsters are species, not individuals.))

 

[Pakky]

Yes

 

[GoodGrief741]

Huh. Are the DQ heroes really so unmemorable that a Slime is the only proper way to rep the series?

Not the only proper way, but maybe the best one. It doesn’t help that most don’t have default names (some don’t even have generic names, and can be referred to solely as Hero).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Patrick: Does sub-bosses and bosses count as generic enemies?

 

[Quillion]

Patrick: Does sub-bosses and bosses count as generic enemies?

Only if they're recurring.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Only if they're recurring.

Alright than, If I could choose a boss to be in the roster, I would choose Phantom Ganon OOT version.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

Piranha Plant is most certainly an icon; it's one of the original SMB1 enemies that has made an appearance in nearly every main Mario game since.

We can have both unrepped franchises and enemies in Smash. It's not like it needs to be one or the other.
----
All of that said, I'm not exactly sure enemies from third party games are in the running. I think third party characters really do need to be special in a way that main characters are.

I think being an icon isn't just longevity. You need to have the star power to be an icon, and the name Piranha Plant just doesn't have that. And I'm not opposing his appearance as he looks really fun to play, but I would not call Piranha Plant an icon because he has been in a lot of games. I mean he is one of the longest running enemies in the franchise along with Goomba and Koopa Troopa and fits into Smash better than those two, but at the end of the day as I said earlier he doesn't have the star power or popularity to be called an icon imo. I mean the Buzzy Beetle was in the first Super Mario Bros and he isn't an icon.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Mario:

Goomba
Shy Guy
Boo

Zelda:

Deku Scrub
Poe
If we can't get the Skull Kid, give me some sort-of Skull Kid pls Nintendo

Pikmin:

Bulborb/Bulbear/Bulbmin/I think you understand

Pokemon:

Oh wait...

Dragon Quest:

Slime, even though I've never played DQ

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think being an icon isn't just longevity. You need to have the star power to be an icon, and the name Piranha Plant just doesn't have that. And I'm not opposing his appearance as he looks really fun to play, but I would not call Piranha Plant an icon because he has been in a lot of games. I mean he is one of the longest running enemies in the franchise along with Goomba and Koopa Troopa and fits into Smash better than those two, but at the end of the day as I said earlier he doesn't have the star power or popularity to be called an icon imo. I mean the Buzzy Beetle was in the first Super Mario Bros and he isn't an icon.

I think that Piranha Plant was chosen by Nintendo and Sakurai only gave the OK, but anyway:

I think that Piranha Plant does something that both Goomba and Koopa fail at: it represents Mario's level design.
Piranha Plant is a static enemy, it's part of the level layout... and I mean, he's not one of those minions who run around the level, he IS PART of the level's structure.
In favor of this, Mario is a series where the platforming and the level design plays an huge role, even more than the characters themselves, and Piranha Plant does an awesome job at representing that.
I felt silly when I looked at the huge moveset potential the plant had and the fact that I never noticed it until the announcement.
Back on my previous statement of Piranha Plant being part of the level: what do you think of when I say you Super Mario Maker? I don't know you, but when I think of Mario Maker, I think of Piranha Plant, it's like the most used enemy/element in the whole game, or at least the most iconic to the game... I've seen entire levels made of Piranha Plants.

Another thing that justifies his presence in Smash, is the fact that a Piranha Plant has been an important character in the Gamecube/GBA/early DS era, and it's Petey Piranha.
One of the reasons why Piranha Plant is in the game, could be the existence of Petey Piranha.
At the time, it was in a lot of spin-off games, it had merchandise based on the character.
Maybe, it wasn't important enough to deserve a spot as a character himself, or maybe Sakurai went with the "too big" excuse once again and prefered to use the smaller version, or maybe Nintendo specifically asked him to add a Mario minion, though I think that Petey Piranha played a big role in Piranha Plant being a newcomer, despite it not being the primary form used ingame.

Also, I think that it's not Petey Piranha because Piranha Plant is a species, and Petey is a specific member of the species. Just like with other characters such as Mario or Link, Sakurai prefers to represent the general design of a character instead of representing the specific desing and moveset from a specific game; that's why Mario has references from several different games in his moveset, Young Link doesn't use masks and doesn't transform into Fierce Deity, and Zelda has the armor move from Spirit Tracks despite never doing it in the games where she appears with that design.
Piranha Plant appeared in countless different versions through the Mario series, including spin-offs, and Petey Piranha is just one of those versions.
So, Petey Piranha is not a different character than Piranha Plant, he's still Piranha Plant, just a different version of it but still a member of the species... Sakurai probably thought that it was better to merge them all into an unique fighter, and Petey still appears in the game as the final smash.
(for a similar reason, I think that the space pirates are unlikely as newcomers because Ridley already represents the species of the space pirates, being one of them).

So I think that's not completely true that Piranha Plant is just a generic enemy, he's the representation of Petey Piranha and his species, a character who's been kinda relevant in the Gamecube-to-DS era (similar to Bowser Jr).
Add this with the fact that the species in general represent the platforming structure of Mario's levels, and that they were an important element in Mario Maker, and you can see that, in a way, Piranha Plant kinda deserves being in smash.

If you look at Piranha Plant this way, you can also see why it was selected over Waluigi (Waluigi didn't even get a role in a main Mario game, while Piranha Plant did more than once, as Petey Piranha).

 

[Quillion]

I think that Piranha Plant was chosen by Nintendo and Sakurai only gave the OK, but anyway:

I think that Piranha Plant does something that both Goomba and Koopa fail at: it represents Mario's level design.
Piranha Plant is a static enemy, it's part of the level layout... and I mean, he's not one of those minions who run around the level, he IS PART of the level's structure.
In favor of this, Mario is a series where the platforming and the level design plays an huge role, even more than the characters themselves, and Piranha Plant does an awesome job at representing that.
I felt silly when I looked at the huge moveset potential the plant had and the fact that I never noticed it until the announcement.
Back on my previous statement of Piranha Plant being part of the level: what do you think of when I say you Super Mario Maker? I don't know you, but when I think of Mario Maker, I think of Piranha Plant, it's like the most used enemy/element in the whole game, or at least the most iconic to the game... I've seen entire levels made of Piranha Plants.

Another thing that justifies his presence in Smash, is the fact that a Piranha Plant has been an important character in the Gamecube/GBA/early DS era, and it's Petey Piranha.
One of the reasons why Piranha Plant is in the game, could be the existence of Petey Piranha.
At the time, it was in a lot of spin-off games, it had merchandise based on the character.
Maybe, it wasn't important enough to deserve a spot as a character himself, or maybe Sakurai went with the "too big" excuse once again and prefered to use the smaller version, or maybe Nintendo specifically asked him to add a Mario minion, though I think that Petey Piranha played a big role in Piranha Plant being a newcomer, despite it not being the primary form used ingame.

Also, I think that it's not Petey Piranha because Piranha Plant is a species, and Petey is a specific member of the species. Just like with other characters such as Mario or Link, Sakurai prefers to represent the general design of a character instead of representing the specific desing and moveset from a specific game; that's why Mario has references from several different games in his moveset, Young Link doesn't use masks and doesn't transform into Fierce Deity, and Zelda has the armor move from Spirit Tracks despite never doing it in the games where she appears with that design.
Piranha Plant appeared in countless different versions through the Mario series, including spin-offs, and Petey Piranha is just one of those versions.
So, Petey Piranha is not a different character than Piranha Plant, he's still Piranha Plant, just a different version of it but still a member of the species... Sakurai probably thought that it was better to merge them all into an unique fighter, and Petey still appears in the game as the final smash.
(for a similar reason, I think that the space pirates are unlikely as newcomers because Ridley already represents the species of the space pirates, being one of them).

So I think that's not completely true that Piranha Plant is just a generic enemy, he's the representation of Petey Piranha and his species, a character who's been kinda relevant in the Gamecube-to-DS era (similar to Bowser Jr).
Add this with the fact that the species in general represent the platforming structure of Mario's levels, and that they were an important element in Mario Maker, and you can see that, in a way, Piranha Plant kinda deserves being in smash.

If you look at Piranha Plant this way, you can also see why it was selected over Waluigi (Waluigi didn't even get a role in a main Mario game, while Piranha Plant did more than once, as Petey Piranha).

That's a pretty weird way of looking at it, but you make a good point.

Piranha Plant's the joke pick, though, there's no doubt about that. I'd still argue that as one of the longest-running and frequently appearing foes in the series, it's still one of Mario's most iconic enemies.

But seeing Piranha Plant as an extension of Mario's platforming gets me thinking: could other enemies represent their series' "spirit" even work? I'd advocate for Bokoblin at least being a representation of Ganon the pig instead of Ganondorf the man (even though pig Blins came after pig Ganon, fun fact). Zeta or Omega Metroid could be an extension of being Metroid's eponymous species.

 

[Peridorito]

I've warmed up to the idea of having more generic enemies so here's some ideas:

Starman (Mother series) - This is the most iconic enemy from the series. It could use a bunch of PSI attacks such as Beam and Shield.

New Age Retro Hippie (Mother series) - This would be the most WTF character in the series, but just imagine how amazing he would be. He could fight with his toothbrush, ruler and protactor. He would also bring his iconic theme with him.

Cactuar (Final Fantasy series) - Would be a really fast character whose main method of attack is shooting needles.

 

[fogbadge]

I've warmed up to the idea of having more generic enemies so here's some ideas:

Starman (Mother series) - This is the most iconic enemy from the series. It could use a bunch of PSI attacks such as Beam and Shield.

New Age Retro Hippie (Mother series) - This would be the most WTF character in the series, but just imagine how amazing he would be. He could fight with his toothbrush, ruler and protactor. He would also bring his iconic theme with him.

Cactuar (Final Fantasy series) - Would be a really fast character whose main method of attack is shooting needles.

im up for cactaur

 

[Quillion]

You know, if Splatoon gets a unique character that isn't Inkling or an echo or semi-echo, would an Octotrooper work?

 

[Tetrin]

Ngl a Lynel would be pretty cool.

 

[fogbadge]

You know, if Splatoon gets a unique character that isn't Inkling or an echo or semi-echo, would an Octotrooper work?

dont see why not

 

[TheYungLink]

The only generic enemies I want are from Mario, really, because they're all super duper popular and iconic.

I'd go with Koopa Troopa, Shy Guy, and Kamek, the latter two to also give Yoshi some company (whether or not they're represented as Mario or Yoshi characters, they're both more prominent in Yoshi than in Mario), the former because it's been a mainstay in every Mario game, as even Goombas were gone in Super Mario World (replaced with "Galoombas," the ones you can knock down then pick up and throw). It's also been in Mario Kart since the beginning.

I only want those three alongside Piranha Plant, but I'll also take Goomba and Boo to round out the iconic Mario enemies (and the latter can be associated with Luigi by having King Boo as a final smash).

 

[GoodGrief741]

The only generic enemies I want are from Mario, really, because they're all super duper popular and iconic.

I'd go with Koopa Troopa, Shy Guy, and Kamek, the latter two to also give Yoshi some company (whether or not they're represented as Mario or Yoshi characters, they're both more prominent in Yoshi than in Mario), the former because it's been a mainstay in every Mario game, as even Goombas were gone in Super Mario World (replaced with "Galoombas," the ones you can knock down then pick up and throw). It's also been in Mario Kart since the beginning.

I only want those three alongside Piranha Plant, but I'll also take Goomba and Boo to round out the iconic Mario enemies (and the latter can be associated with Luigi by having King Boo as a final smash).

Kamek isn’t generic, he’s an actual character.

 

[Quillion]

The only generic enemies I want are from Mario, really, because they're all super duper popular and iconic.

I'd go with Koopa Troopa, Shy Guy, and Kamek, the latter two to also give Yoshi some company (whether or not they're represented as Mario or Yoshi characters, they're both more prominent in Yoshi than in Mario), the former because it's been a mainstay in every Mario game, as even Goombas were gone in Super Mario World (replaced with "Galoombas," the ones you can knock down then pick up and throw). It's also been in Mario Kart since the beginning.

I only want those three alongside Piranha Plant, but I'll also take Goomba and Boo to round out the iconic Mario enemies (and the latter can be associated with Luigi by having King Boo as a final smash).

Come to think of it, I don't there are much enemies that give "mascot status" the way Mario and Dragon Quest do. I was going to say that the Zelda enemies could be up there, but they really aren't.

 

[TheYungLink]

Kamek isn’t generic, he’s an actual character.

I know, I should have clarified that I meant "in a Bandana Waddle Dee" sense, where it's a regular enemy that now has a distinguished role and status. My bad on that front.

Come to think of it, I don't there are much enemies that give "mascot status" the way Mario and Dragon Quest do. I was going to say that the Zelda enemies could be up there, but they really aren't.

Pretty much. I'd much rather have some more one-offs from Zelda that are popular with fans (I will forever want for Midna), and as much as I like Slime and agree they're iconic, I'd rather have a Dragon Quest protagonist like Erdrick first.

 

[NSSKG151]

Shy Guy because he could count as a new Yoshi series rep wouldn't he? Not only that but like Pirahna Plant in the Mario spinoffs there are plenty of variation of Shy Guys to give him a creative moveset.

Also Hammer Bro because why not at this point.

 

[newsuperhackboys]

New Age Retro Hippie (Mother series) - This would be the most WTF character in the series, but just imagine how amazing he would be. He could fight with his toothbrush, ruler and protactor. He would also bring his iconic theme with him.

Dude, this. I would love to main him. Though what could his final smash be?

 

[Peridorito]

Dude, this. I would love to main him. Though what could his final smash be?

He could call the other human enemies like the Annoying Old Party Man and the Cranky lady to gang up on the opponent.