Noticing more OP characters...

[ConeZ]

You can't complain about OP characters this early. Nothing has developed yet, advanced strategies for countering characters just aren't there yet. All of the above mentioned characters are not overpowered.

Little Mac is THE character to shield-grab. His grab is too short to grab you and he lacks any sort of range, so when they come at you with a Dash attack (which they often do) or a Jolt Haymaker, you shield it then grab them.

Greninja is actually a character that's based on their opponents ability to predict, I think so anyway. All his moves rely on the opponent not reading him and not predicting where he's going or what he's gonna do. So, an opponent who can work out his strategy has the advantage.

Sheik is not OP, she just has very few bad match-ups. She relies on being very fast and applying the pressure, so any character who can do the same to her is putting her at an even match (or even a disadvantage).

I really don't think anyone in the cast is OP, they did a pretty good job of balancing the game. Only complaints I have are Rosaluma and occasionally Duck Hunt.
Duck Hunt has two excellent projectiles, disjointed hitboxes, powerful attacks, an above average recovery, and that incredibly annoying Down Special.
Rosaluma has Luma, as well as having powerful attacks. However, a lot of her attacks are somewhat slow, so that is a weakness.

While I do think more characters in this game appear to be viable/ useable than in the past, and it certainly seems more balanced in the past, I don't think I'd just discount the strengths of other characters.

Little Mac is NOT good. Flatout, he never will be OP because all you have to do is throw him off and hit him with an aerial. I do agree.

As for Shiek and Greninja, discounting their strengths because they have "weaknesses" and claiming the game seems balanced doesn't mean they don't have some serious strengths.
I believe at this point, it is too early to say anything is OP and that there isn't anything that is.

The only thing that is for certain is that Rosaluma, Greninja, Shiek, and ZSS take less effort to accomplish the same amount of work any other characters do, and those are the 4 most people are referring to as the best at a glance (this early in).
After playing 300+ Glory matches, as well as games with friends similarly skilled in the game, I certainly agree with the synopsis of the community.

Also, I DID agree about Greninja at first, but then I played better Greninjas, and he doesn't JUST rely on reads. He has a counter, a good dash and a good grab, a projectile, a good recovery, above average speed, good disjoints and general range, and it appears his priority is also above average from my observations thus far in addition to that pesky shadow sneak.
I mean, granted, he might have a weakspot, yes, but you can't just discount how many options he has that are good in neutral.

In any case, I do not feel like writing up the reasons why Shiek is obviously one of the strongest characters in the game because you can find the reason in a lot of other places. Same goes for ZSS.

As for Rosaluma, she will probably fall off once people figure out how to deal with the puppet mechanic because she is pretty slow.
I think the game IS more balanced, and there will be more viable characters this time around, but that doesn't mean there aren't characters that are DEFINITIVELY better than the rest of the cast. That is just how things go. There are 49 characters, and they all have vastly different tools and ranges and speeds, and it is impossible to balance things perfectly. The nature of different tools is that some are just better than others.
BUT I don't think we will have another Metaknight thank God.

 

[Crusina]

I think people are confusing "really freaking annoying" with OP.

 

[Ninelifves]

People are underestimating kirby. He has become the most op character in the game since meta knight passed him the torch. They even gave him a new VA to match his awesome new skills and gave him a new move (down smash) that inflicts self harm! This new sadist version of kirby is clearly in the realm of the most OP characters ever!

 

[Zero Suit Wario]

Guys, Pichu is OP

 

[The Soap]

He's so OP they had to remove him from the game

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Little mac is definitely op in for glory mode I don't think there is a argument good enough to state other wise. I usually here people say "just stay at the ledge and grab him then gimp his horrible recovery" if you have a good enough player who is aware of the weakness, what's your course of action then? Do you attack him? No, that's suicide, do you spam projectiles? I mean you could, but if he's a smart enough player how long do you think you could last doing that?

The real problem is that he's the only character in the game that has a clearly defined strength and a clearly defined weakness and those two don't cross each other to make a truly balanced character. as an example:

Mario

PROS
-fairly agile
-has a decent projectile
-has really good combo abilities

CONS
-he's fairly light meaning he can get sent flying easily
-he has a very short range meaning he has to get very close to utilize his combos
-lacks a decent killing move at higher percents

Little Mac

PROS
-he has a great running speed
-most of his attacks are very strong and quick with little to no ending lag
-his smash attacks have super armor
-his jab combo does 20% and is a nice follow up if you whiff an attack
-has a K'O punch that ignores shields
-he has a counter which can be used in the air for a safer decent

CONS
-he lacks any good air attacks
-his recovery is terrible

If you noticed his weakness don't have a negative effect on his strengths at all unlike Mario's or any other character in the game.

This is only in for glory mode though because final destination is a stage that literally uses all of his strengths and nothing else, if stage select existed little mac would always be counter picked with stages like battle field that force him to jump around exposing his weakness more and he probably wouldn't have been so over used by new players as much. I also think that for glory does the same for Rosalina because there is only one real way to approach her and with platforms to help evade Luma players tend to get more frustrated at the lack of control in the match

 

[ConeZ]

Honestly, I think Little Mac is easy even on FD. All you have to do is ****ing grab him. Then he dies

 

[Cubonebonebone]

If you continuously lose to Lil macs and greninjas it's not their being over powered, it's a lack of adapting your play style. A decent little Mac has to be taken off stage and gimped which is usually quite easy considering how many people there are that can't play him well and end up killing themselves for you. Also greninjas are generally predictable, using their down air too much being that it has massive amounts of landing lag, overusing shadow strike and counter giving you easy punishes, ect. If you have trouble against a certain character and it seems like they are simply op, just try playing as them for a day. Most likely you will see what they struggle against and what they accel at, making it easier to fight them. Also you may just find a new main :D

 

[Phenomiracle]

Little mac is definitely op in for glory mode I don't think there is a argument good enough to state other wise. I usually here people say "just stay at the ledge and grab him then gimp his horrible recovery" if you have a good enough player who is aware of the weakness, what's your course of action then? Do you attack him? No, that's suicide, do you spam projectiles? I mean you could, but if he's a smart enough player how long do you think you could last doing that?

For as long as he continues to be intimidated by your presence on the ledge? I've planted myself near edges and waited patiently against Little Macs. The stupid ones rush in (regardless of whatever I projectile spam or not), while the skilled ones bait me into attempting an attack/grab by rushing and shield-rolling out.

The real problem is that he's the only character in the game that has a clearly defined strength and a clearly defined weakness and those two don't cross each other to make a truly balanced character. as an example:

Mario

PROS
-fairly agile
-has a decent projectile
-has really good combo abilities

CONS
-he's fairly light meaning he can get sent flying easily
-he has a very short range meaning he has to get very close to utilize his combos
-lacks a decent killing move at higher percents

Little Mac

PROS
-he has a great running speed
-most of his attacks are very strong and quick with little to no ending lag
-his smash attacks have super armor
-his jab combo does 20% and is a nice follow up if you whiff an attack
-has a K'O punch that ignores shields
-he has a counter which can be used in the air for a safer decent

CONS
-he lacks any good air attacks
-his recovery is terrible

If you noticed his weakness don't have a negative effect on his strengths at all unlike Mario's or any other character in the game.

This is only in for glory mode though because final destination is a stage that literally uses all of his strengths and nothing else, if stage select existed little mac would always be counter picked with stages like battle field that force him to jump around exposing his weakness more and he probably wouldn't have been so over used by new players as much. I also think that for glory does the same for Rosalina because there is only one real way to approach her and with platforms to help evade Luma players tend to get more frustrated at the lack of control in the match

This point is well taken. Little Mac's pros, essentially, don't have a tradeoff that could be listed as a weakness.

He isn't the only character to experience that particular design coincidence, though. Greninja comes off the top of my head.

Essentially, combatting Little Mac revolves almost entirely around getting him out of his element (ground game), rather than trying to be counteroffensive on his element. I don't see that as grounds for viewing him as OP. Even skilled players are prone to openings; a counteroffensive ground strategy can be enough to throwing his game off entirely, since all you literally have to do is pump him a few feet in the air.

As a Zelda main (another character who prefers the ground), relying on grabs (anywhere, either on the edge for low-percentage recovery gimps OR Dthrows for Nair/Uairs scares) have worked well for me. Scaring Little Mac players into relying on his counter and punishing them accordingly has worked as well. Admittedly, it took me some time to getting used to the prolonged length of his counter.

Yes, I've lost my fair share of matches against Little Macs due to stupid mistakes and being outplayed, but I can assure that every match I HAVE beaten him, I've two-stocked him having taken under 70% damage.

Fighting Little Mac is either a complete nightmare from hell or a Christmas morning joy, depending on how patient you are.

 

[Random4811]

So far, no one is overly OP. Infact, I'd put Bowser above anyone on the lists you guys are making just because of how easy he can rack up damage and how easy he can K.O. Even though he's big and heavy, his speed has been amped and his K.O. potential is huge. A good Sonic is also really hard to fight, but no one is "OP" that I can tell. But, the meta is still young.

 

[WrappedInBlack]

There's no such thing as OP... or tiers... u just suck... or play very well.

 

[Spirst]

If you continuously lose to Lil macs and greninjas it's not their being over powered, it's a lack of adapting your play style. A decent little Mac has to be taken off stage and gimped which is usually quite easy considering how many people there are that can't play him well and end up killing themselves for you. Also greninjas are generally predictable, using their down air too much being that it has massive amounts of landing lag, overusing shadow strike and counter giving you easy punishes, ect. If you have trouble against a certain character and it seems like they are simply op, just try playing as them for a day. Most likely you will see what they struggle against and what they accel at, making it easier to fight them. Also you may just find a new main :D

Good Greninjas are generally not that predictable. A Greninja using the d-air and shadow sneak/counter all the time is the telltale sign that it's a bad Greninja. Those are amongst his most punishable moves.

I don't think anyone is warranted the OP label just yet.

 

[ConeZ]

So far, no one is overly OP. Infact, I'd put Bowser above anyone on the lists you guys are making just because of how easy he can rack up damage and how easy he can K.O. Even though he's big and heavy, his speed has been amped and his K.O. potential is huge. A good Sonic is also really hard to fight, but no one is "OP" that I can tell. But, the meta is still young.

/honestly Bowser IS faster, and he isn't bad, but he defintely is not one of the best in the game. He loses to faster characters like even my favorite Captain Falcon because all of his moves can be baited and punished because they have endlag, and other characters are faster/ have better priority than him

 

[Random4811]

/honestly Bowser IS faster, and he isn't bad, but he defintely is not one of the best in the game. He loses to faster characters like even my favorite Captain Falcon because all of his moves can be baited and punished because they have endlag, and other characters are faster/ have better priority than him

I wasnt saying that he was one of the best, but I do think he ranks above Greninja, Mac, and Rosilina for sure.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

For as long as he continues to be intimidated by your presence on the ledge? I've planted myself near edges and waited patiently against Little Macs. The stupid ones rush in (regardless of whatever I projectile spam or not), while the skilled ones bait me into attempting an attack/grab by rushing and shield-rolling out.



This point is well taken. Little Mac's pros, essentially, don't have a tradeoff that could be listed as a weakness.

He isn't the only character to experience that particular design coincidence, though. Greninja comes off the top of my head.

Essentially, combatting Little Mac revolves almost entirely around getting him out of his element (ground game), rather than trying to be counteroffensive on his element. I don't see that as grounds for viewing him as OP. Even skilled players are prone to openings; a counteroffensive ground strategy can be enough to throwing his game off entirely.

As a Zelda main (another character who prefers the ground), relying on grabs (anywhere, either on the edge for low-percentage recovery gimps OR Dthrows for Nair/Uairs scares) have worked well for me. Scaring Little Mac into relying on his counter and punishing him accordingly has worked as well.

Yes, I've lost my fair share of matches against Little Macs due to stupid mistakes and being outplayed, but I can assure that every match I HAVE beaten him, I've two-stocked him having taken under 70% damage.

Fighting Little Mac is either a complete nightmare from hell or a Christmas morning joy, depending on how patient you are.

While I agree with you for the most part, I still thinks he's OP (in FG) because fact that players all throughout the community have developed this method of edge guarding because there was no real way to fight him in the traditional sense for smash, I don't think it was a good idea at all to make him as strong as he is on the ground and as weak as he is in the air because that's not balanced at all and players who find they cant beat all of his strengths will only go for the weaknesses instead making Little Mac a very routine character to fight rather than being a unique fight that test your abilities and I think that's a terrible design on Nintendo's part

 

[ConeZ]

While I agree with you for the most part, I still thinks he's OP (in FG) because fact that players all throughout the community have developed this method of edge guarding because there was no real way to fight him in the traditional sense for smash, I don't think it was a good idea at all to make him as strong as he is on the ground and as weak as he is in the air because that's not balanced at all and players who find they cant beat all of his strengths will only go for the weaknesses instead making Little Mac a very routine character to fight rather than being a unique fight that test your abilities and I think that's a terrible design on Nintendo's part

Why would you fight someone on their own terms?
In any game, the most effective way to deal with a character is to exploit their flaws. Lil Mac's flaws are too big for him to be OP

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Honestly, I think Little Mac is easy even on FD. All you have to do is ****ing grab him. Then he dies

What you just said is literally like to me being held up by a guy with a gun and the police telling me the easiest solution is to not get shot, that's the plan but its always easier said than done

 

[Phenomiracle]

While I agree with you for the most part, I still thinks he's OP (in FG) because fact that players all throughout the community have developed this method of edge guarding because there was no real way to fight him in the traditional sense for smash, I don't think it was a good idea at all to make him as strong as he is on the ground and as weak as he is in the air because that's not balanced at all and players who find they cant beat all of his strengths will only go for the weaknesses instead making Little Mac a very routine character to fight rather than being a unique fight that test your abilities and I think that's a terrible design on Nintendo's part

Listen to yourself. If people have developed a workable, highly efficient strategy to exploit his weaknesses just as you've said, then he clearly isn't OP.

An OP character would be one who is near impossible to work against with any approach.

I wholeheartedly agree about his design, though. It's a problematic one. He may be fun to fight as, but there's little to no drama or flair in fighting against him. You either get crushed or you crush him. Feel like crap or feel god-tier.

Completely against what Smash is meant to be as per Nintendo's stated aim itself, a get-together fun party game.

 

[ConeZ]

What you just said is literally like to me being held up by a guy with a gun and the police telling me the easiest solution is to not get shot, that's the plan but its always easier said than done

Then how come it always works for me? xD
I've played against a lot of Little Macs in the past few weeks and outside of the first few and the several I've fought with lag, it has not been hard to land one grab on a stock. If you grab them, you throw them into the air, then you just keep them off the ground, and considering he has ZERO good options in the air, it is not hard.

I mean, seriously, I would not be saying this if I had not won around 95% of my matchups against Little Mac. He is so one dimensional it is stupid.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Why would you fight someone on their own terms?
In any game, the most effective way to deal with a character is to exploit their flaws. Lil Mac's flaws are too big for him to be OP

I guess you didn't get my point at all

I wasn't saying it was bad to exploit his weaknesses I was saying that it was bad design to spell out all of his strengths and weaknesses like they did, there isn't any other character that calls for a single strategy like little mac does again making his fights very routine and boring which is the sole reason people don't like to fight him and think he's op. Also one or two weaknesses don't balance someone who has 6 different strengths

Listen to yourself. If people have developed a workable, highly efficient strategy to exploit his weaknesses just as you've said, then he clearly isn't OP.

An OP character would be one who is near impossible to work against with any approach.

I wholeheartedly agree about his design, though. It's a problematic one. He may be fun to fight as, but there's little to no drama or flair in fighting against him. You either get crushed or you crush him. Feel like crap or feel god-tier.

Completely against what Smash is meant to be as per Nintendo's stated aim itself, a get-together fun party game.

Again I only talking about for glory because it automatically puts you in his element a flat stage with no platforms which means he doesn't need to jump at all.

 

[ChikoLad]

Manage to smash Rosalina's Luma off the stage and she's not even close to OP anymore.
Sure they come back eventually, but seriously, Rosalina users rely more of the Luma than Rosalina herself.

She's especially bad in Sudden Death.

Comments like these are how I know the person has not faced a half decent Rosalina.

 

[The Soap]

Again I only talking about for glory because it automatically puts you in his element a flat stage with no platforms which means he doesn't need to jump at all.

It also makes it a lot easier to juggle him.

 

[ChampKing]

Comments like these are how I know the person has not faced a half decent Rosalina.

It's way worse for Little Mac. The ignorance is ridiculous.

 

[G-Guy]

i havn't faced any characters i'd call OP, yet. There are a few that are just annoying to fight against online, especially when the connection is not all that great.
Of course Smash-attack spamming little macs will have the advantage compared to someone who requires more "fine tech" to deal with his opponents, like Bowser Jr.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

i havn't faced any characters i'd call OP, yet. There are a few that are just annoying to fight against online

I think that's something a lot of people here need to ask themselves. Is the character Op, or just annoying to fight?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

As for Rosaluma, she will probably fall off once people figure out how to deal with the puppet mechanic because she is pretty slow.

To be fair, Rosalina's running speed is slightly above average, as she does outrun Mario and Duck Hunt, while losing to Pit.

 

[SmashBear]

I think that's something a lot of people here need to ask themselves. Is the character Op, or just annoying to fight?

Or just really good at the game soon overtime character matchups an strategies should help with those characters

 

[SmasherP83]

Umm Greninja's up smash attack. Nerf plz.

 

[ConeZ]

I just don't see where people think he is that hard to deal with, I really don't.

I guess you didn't get my point at all

I wasn't saying it was bad to exploit his weaknesses I was saying that it was bad design to spell out all of his strengths and weaknesses like they did, there isn't any other character that calls for a single strategy like little mac does again making his fights very routine and boring which is the sole reason people don't like to fight him and think he's op. Also one or two weaknesses don't balance someone who has 6 different strengths



Again I only talking about for glory because it automatically puts you in his element a flat stage with no platforms which means he doesn't need to jump at all.

His one weakness, however, is tht he is bad in the air.
I.E. Once he is in the air, he might as well be dead.
The fact that he dies so easily once in the air DOES balance him because he doesn't have 6 strengths, he has one:
His ground game is the best in the game bar none. Problem with that is that it isn't impenetrable, and all your opponent has to do is land one or 2 good hits and or a grab, then put in a concerted effort to keep you in the air.
MAYBE it is easier with Captain Falcon because that is what he does, but if you are playing any good player, and they know all they have to do is grab you, getting one good grab is not that hard with any character :x

 

[ChikoLad]

Little Mac is broken IMO, but not Meta Knight broken. It's a different kind.

Meta Knight was broken because he was really good for most skilled players, but he still had to think about a lot of rules many other characters did.

Little Mac, however, is like using training wheels.

While I know he has one or two situational ATs involving his aerials, they aren't enough to change the fact that his air game is terrible. As such, most of the time, Little Mac's air game is "don't go into the air".

This takes away an entire element of Smash that is really important to players of most other characters. They still have to think about moving around in the air and using aerials. Little Mac, for the most part, does not. That's a whole bunch of moves that aren't being utilised.

In exchange, players are given a ground game that actually rewards them for doing something they normally should not be doing - getting hit. Little Mac has great super armour, so what would be a great combo starter of a punisher on other characters using a Smash or charging move, is a free hit for Little Mac. Sometimes a free KO. Again, it's another element of the game that Little Mac players don't have to think about as much - timing your Smashes so that they aren't punished.

And worst of all, even if he is flinching, Little Mac's Power Meter is built up as he takes hits (as well as for dishing them out), and when full, that gives him a OHKO move (unless a character is literally at 0%, maybe a little more for the heavyweights).

He's not broken in that he is unbeatable. In fact, skilled players won't have much of a problem with him. However, he greatly rewards unskillful play in a lot of ways. He really feels like "a meathead's character".

There are some people who are legitimately good with him though, using footsies and such.

 

[ConeZ]

I mean honestly, I feel like people are sleeping on Captain Falcon. He is miles better than Lil Mac. xD

 

[ChikoLad]

I mean honestly, I feel like people are sleeping on Captain Falcon. He is miles better than Lil Mac. xD

I don't disagree with that at all, since he rewards skillful play really well. The good Captain is great in this game. I actually mesh with him more than his Melee incarnation.

I just don't like how Little Mac rewards both skillful AND unskillful play. I can take him on fine, but he's broken in the sense that most of the time I DO lose to him, he barely even hits me. OHKO Punch is just so hard to get around sometimes, and super armour can make me hesitate in my approaches at times.

 

[ConeZ]

I don't disagree with that at all, since he rewards skillful play really well. The good Captain is great in this game. I actually mesh with him more than his Melee incarnation.

I just don't like how Little Mac rewards both skillful AND unskillful play. I can take him on fine, but he's broken in the sense that most of the time I DO lose to him, he barely even hits me. OHKO Punch is just so hard to get around sometimes, and super armour can make me hesitate in my approaches at times.

Whenever he gets the OHKO punch, I try and bait it out, and punish him if he leaves any openings in his neutral game. Usually one or 2 good hits knocks it out of him.
Granted, I have been hit by it, so I am still trying to figure out the best way to deal with it xD

I DO think Falcon is better though xD
Honestly I think High/Top Tiers in no particular order will consist of:

And MAYBE:
Little Mac: (He will be used for the same reason he is now. His weaknesses will be abused, but I don't think that'll stop people from playing him)

I feel like a lot of characters will be viable and/or relevant, which is good, but I have narrowed it down personally to the ones mentioned above as the characters I actually have to try against. I think eventually, a few of those will rise above the rest in a more legitimate way. It'll probably end up having around 10ish legitimate top characters, but this early on, I don't have trouble with any characters outside of this group, nor do I personally see potential there.
That said, if it does end up that all the characters above are viable later on, that'd be pretty nice imo. That is a good variety for a game that has so many different unique characters.

Edit: Some of these characters will probably not be as good once we figure out how to exploit their weaknesses, but I did mean to say that I think the metagame will evolve to include probably 15 to 20 characters that will be relevant in tournament which is a good number xD
I do think there will be an S tier for a smaller handful of characters though.

 

[Crusina]

I don't disagree with that at all, since he rewards skillful play really well. The good Captain is great in this game. I actually mesh with him more than his Melee incarnation.

I just don't like how Little Mac rewards both skillful AND unskillful play. I can take him on fine, but he's broken in the sense that most of the time I DO lose to him, he barely even hits me. OHKO Punch is just so hard to get around sometimes, and super armour can make me hesitate in my approaches at times.

I played a free for all for fun match with 3 little macs and having those platforms and not a flat surface kills him. That's why people thought he would be terrible in smash originally, they didn't think Nintendo would give us a flat stage and say that's competitive.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And worst of all, even if he is flinching, Little Mac's Power Meter is built up as he takes hits (as well as for dishing them out), and when full, that gives him a OHKO move (unless a character is literally at 0%, maybe a little more for the heavyweights).

One thing to keep in mind about that power meter though, is that Little Mac has to use the KO Uppercut as soon as possible. If he takes any more damage after the meter is full, he'll lose the charge, and can't use the KO Uppercut until it's fully charged again.

 

[Super Writer]

The only characters I would call truly OP are Ike and Jigglypuff, but only in a 4 player match. Due to the chaos (and more often than not players that don't know how to punish) it's much easier for them to get in their stronger attacks, Ike just eats through other moves and hits hard, his Up Smash being a good example, and Jigglypuff's Sleep KOs at low percent and her Roll Out is great when all opponents are weakened.

Just saying, I'm not a Jigglypuff main, yet my best round in online was with her, 7 KOs, 1 death.

 

[NeonBurrito]

So far, no one is overly OP. Infact, I'd put Bowser above anyone on the lists you guys are making just because of how easy he can rack up damage and how easy he can K.O. Even though he's big and heavy, his speed has been amped and his K.O. potential is huge. A good Sonic is also really hard to fight, but no one is "OP" that I can tell. But, the meta is still young.

Bowser is definitely better than Mac, it's debatable if he's better than Greninja, but I think Rosalina is better than Bowser. I've never had any problems with Bowser, his attacks have a lot of start up and ending lag, and his aerials are incredibly laggy. He's strong, sure, but otherwise I don't think he's what everyone makes him out to be.

 

[ConeZ]

The only characters I would call truly OP are Ike and Jigglypuff, but only in a 4 player match. Due to the chaos (and more often than not players that don't know how to punish) it's much easier for them to get in their stronger attacks, Ike just eats through other moves and hits hard, his Up Smash being a good example, and Jigglypuff's Sleep KOs at low percent and her Roll Out is great when all opponents are weakened.

Just saying, I'm not a Jigglypuff main, yet my best round in online was with her, 7 KOs, 1 death.

FFA matches do not matter honestly, and they do not affect tier placement :x

 

[Super Writer]

FFA matches do not matter honestly, and they do not affect tier placement :x

Oh I know, I just think people should consider alternate tiers in the situation of a 4 player FFA.

 

[SmashChu]

CONS
-he's fairly light meaning he can get sent flying easily
-he has a very short range meaning he has to get very close to utilize his combos
-lacks a decent killing move at higher percents

-Mario's weight is 98 which is a little lighter than average, but not bad. He's a bit short so that helps. Lucario is 100 BTW (as was Ivysaur in Brawl)
-True
-Mario is all about killing at high percents. He's about scaling so all his moves get better with more damage. Not to mention his moves are pretty quick, so once you break 120, Mario starts sending you everywhere.