Not sure if this is new...

[HeWhoCanSee]

Oh noez, a noob posting something he found. >_>

I just wanted to know if it's general knowledge and good practise to use the C-Stick in conjunction with the pivot to F-smash in the direction you've dashed. Like, go forward, then jam back on the control stick, but forward on the C-Stick. It seems very situational, but is it worth practising?

 

[Miggz]

Do you mean a dash canceled forward smash? If so then yes, it is a useful technique when used sparingly. ^^

 

[SpaceFalcon]

It's generally better this way IMO, as long as you have a fast right thumb, and this way your control stick is free to DI. With good reflexes you shouldn't be getting hit by surprise attacks to need to have DI always on the go. But in teams it can make a difference if you c-stick over control stick because there's hitboxes all over the place.

 

[ArcNatural]

Oh noez, a noob posting something he found. >_>

I just wanted to know if it's general knowledge and good practise to use the C-Stick in conjunction with the pivot to F-smash in the direction you've dashed. Like, go forward, then jam back on the control stick, but forward on the C-Stick. It seems very situational, but is it worth practising?

He is talking about pivot Fsmashes, and yes this is how I do them all the time when i want the fsmash to go in the same direction I am. Like Fthrow to dash pivot Fsmash I would do like this.

Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy to do it in the opposite direction as well. I find it works pretty well against shield grabbers (spaced fair dash away pivot fsmash on the grab).

 

[Sybawave]

This is very helpful to do with Fthrow Fsmash on Sheiks. This is how Ken got so many tippers from that combo

 

[Havokbringer]

I also do it this way as well.

But the way I use the most is running forward and crouch during the running animation and I can forward smash in any direction. (you have to run a certain distance/time for it to work tho because if you do it to soon yuo wont be able to F-Smash right away.I think it might me called dash cancelling or something.)

I like to run past peoples shields and F- smashing them from behind.

 

[Sybawave]

Crouch Canceling <_<

 

[elvenarrow3000]

lawl this would be how I would pivot fsmashes if I wasn't too lazy to learn pivoting.

 

[Sybawave]

That's more useful than the UpB thing XD and it's easier

 

[HeWhoCanSee]

Okay. Thanks, guys.

 

[Binx]

Its not very usefull to learn pivoting, although it can catch people even if they have good spacing off guard, I think most times though its safer to go for aerials or grabs.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

why wouldn't you just wdsmash? Is this faster?

 

[ArcNatural]

why wouldn't you just wdsmash? Is this faster?

Pivoting is way faster providing you only need the range of your first dash animation. Pivoting only takes 1 frame, where wavedashing takes something like 16 frames before you can do anything. I don't think dashing forward and pivot fsmashing takes longer than that total.

I don't know what your talking about Binx. Pivoting is incredibly useful. Maybe not so much for pivot fsmash, but pivot grabs with Marth (whether CG or dash dance camping) is incredibly useful for Marth. It is everywhere in high level play. I often fair dash through pivot grab, and if people are trying to shield grab you spaced fair to pivot fsmash almost always tippers if you do it right. And you can pivot aerials, which is huge in the Falcon game right now.

The more consistent you get with pivoting, the better you will think it is. I think it's the next metagame step for Marth.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Pivoting is way faster providing you only need the range of your first dash animation. Pivoting only takes 1 frame, where wavedashing takes something like 16 frames before you can do anything. I don't think dashing forward and pivot fsmashing takes longer than that total.

I don't know what your talking about Binx. Pivoting is incredibly useful. Maybe not so much for pivot fsmash, but pivot grabs with Marth (whether CG or dash dance camping) is incredibly useful for Marth. It is everywhere in high level play. I often fair dash through pivot grab, and if people are trying to shield grab you spaced fair to pivot fsmash almost always tippers if you do it right. And you can pivot aerials, which is huge in the Falcon game right now.

The more consistent you get with pivoting, the better you will think it is. I think it's the next metagame step for Marth.

QFT.

Pivoting is becomming more and more usefull, and it's really becoming more widespread at tournaments (especially pivot grabs).

 

[JPOBS]

isnt pivoting just turning around on the ground on the spot?

how can you pivot an aerial? am i missing somehting

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you do exactly waht you jsut said

then jump. you're facing the other way.

 

[Dark Sonic]

isnt pivoting just turning around on the ground on the spot?

how can you pivot an aerial? am i missing somehting

Pivot jump. Falcons particularly like to pivot Nair for it's decent horizontal range and combo ability.

 

[Chum]

Pivoting is way faster providing you only need the range of your first dash animation. Pivoting only takes 1 frame, where wavedashing takes something like 16 frames before you can do anything. I don't think dashing forward and pivot fsmashing takes longer than that total.

I thought it was 10 frames on the wavedash before you could o anything?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

regardless >_> it still makes his point.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Ten frames plus jump time which I believe is five for Marth. So fifteen.

EDIT: Also, while pivoting technically takes on frame, you still have to account for dash frames. So while it can be faster, it's not THAT much faster =P

 

[ArcNatural]

Ten frames plus jump time which I believe is five for Marth. So fifteen.

EDIT: Also, while pivoting technically takes on frame, you still have to account for dash frames. So while it can be faster, it's not THAT much faster =P

I mentioned that, but yeah I thought it was 15 or 16 total frames. Thanks for the correction.

Also, depending on where you pivot in your initial dash you can have a shorter amount of frames. So moving a tiny bit before pivot fsmashing is most likely better than wavedashing a tiny bit and fsmashing. Perfect wavedashing probably beats full pivot wavedashing in distance.

That being said, I never actually pivot from full dash dance length it's always the little distances. I've become interested in the possibilities of pivot -> walking.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Ehhh... I've never really seen the utility in pivot fsmashes... it's kinda hard to do, possibly quite risky and not really useful enough to justify learning. Plus... correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of pro Marths don't seem to use it that much. In the vids I've seen of Ken, he tends to wavesmash instead and I'm pretty sure Taj doesn't pivot fsmash... could be wrong there. I've also never seen Mew2King use it, but again, not totally sure. It just seems like Marth has better and safer options most of the time.

 

[ArcNatural]

Ehhh... I've never really seen the utility in pivot fsmashes... it's kinda hard to do, possibly quite risky and not really useful enough to justify learning. Plus... correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of pro Marths don't seem to use it that much. In the vids I've seen of Ken, he tends to wavesmash instead and I'm pretty sure Taj doesn't pivot fsmash... could be wrong there. I've also never seen Mew2King use it, but again, not totally sure. It just seems like Marth has better and safer options most of the time.

All likely scenarios. But I tend to think it's just not utilized, maybe due to inconsistencies. People reinvent the metagame all the time, and I think this possibly has merit (not just fsmashing, but just becoming consistent with pivots in general).

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Hm. Agreed.

 

[Rubyiris]

I also do it this way as well.

But the way I use the most is running forward and crouch during the running animation and I can forward smash in any direction. (you have to run a certain distance/time for it to work tho because if you do it to soon yuo wont be able to F-Smash right away.I think it might me called dash cancelling or something.)

I like to run past peoples shields and F- smashing them from behind.

Pivoting can only be done during the initial dash.

Crouch canceling a dash can only be used during the full dash animation.

Both techniques have their uses.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Crouch canceling is done during a run, which is after a dash. So.

 

[Cosmo!]

whoa, pivot aerials, I never thought of that

 

[soap]

i pivot fairs and stuff all the time. its much more consistent cuz u dont technically have to DA dash, u just dash turn then jump back.

also useful to pivot shield then aerial.

i think it was shai hulud that made a pivot thread a while back and recommended c stick to pivot fsmashes in direction of dash

 

[ArcNatural]

I'm pretty sure it was me who posted in Shai's thread recommending to pivot with the C-stick in the direction of the dash. But it's all good.

I think in terms of pivoting aerials though, mastering the Shield-> shffl is much more important. The faster you can shield -> shffl gives you the ability to space really well. I notice that SS is particularly fond of this. Can't really think of other examples at the moment though.