No Disassemble!: Overswarm's instruction manual for ROB

[Overswarm]

MK ***** the Ice Climbers. If Plank lost to them, he wasn't being patient enough or was letting them control the momentum. Which is weird, because that doesn't sound like him.

 

[soloSHADOWROB]

Haha idk then when the match gets uploaded Ill post the vid up here, its ****en amazing lol

 

[Overswarm]

Reinventing ROB

Moved to third post?

 

[JJR.O.B.]

Good Job You guys! I am so going to use this next time I play brawl.

 

[Sudai]

OS, you totally forgot to put the [.code] tags around the listing. It looks so much prettier with them, see:

Character:..............0%-35%..........- 35%-70%........- 70-110%.......- 110%-135%.....- 135%-150%

Bowser:.................Combo...........- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Camp/Poke.....- Kill
Captain Falcon:.........Combo/Gimp......- Camp/Poke/Gimp - Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Charizard:..............Combo...........- Combo/Camp.....- Camp..........- Camp..........- Kill
Diddy Kong:.............Combo...........- Camp...........- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Donkey Kong:............Combo...........- Combo..........- Camp..........- Camp..........- Kill
Falco:..................Combo/Gimp......- Ledge Camp.....- Ledge Camp....- Kill..........- Kill
Fox:....................Combo/Gimp......- Combo/Gimp.....- Poke..........- Kill..........- Kill
Game And Watch:.........Combo...........- Poke...........- Poke..........- Kill..........- Kill
Ganondorf:..............Combo/Gimp	- Camp/Poke/Gimp - Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Ice Climbers:...........Split and gimp..- Camp/poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Ike:....................Combo/Gimp......- Combo/Gimp.....- Camp..........- Kill..........- Kill
Ivysaur:................Combo/Gimp......- Camp/Gimp......- Camp/Gimp.....- Kill..........- Kill
JigglyPuff:.............Poke/Camp.......- Poke/Camp......- Kill..........- Kill..........- Kill
King Dedede:............Camp/Combo......- Camp...........- Camp..........- Camp/Kill.....- Kill
Kirby:..................Combo/Poke......- Poke/Camp......- Poke/Kill.....- Kill..........- Kill
Link:...................Combo/Gimp......- Camp/gimp......- Camp..........- Kill..........- Kill
Lucario:................Camp/Poke/Gimp..- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Lucas:..................Combo/Gimp......- Poke/Gimp......- Poke/Gimp.....- Kill/Gimp.....- Kill
Luigi:..................Camp/Poke.......- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke/Gimp- Kill..........- Kill
Mario:..................Combo/Poke......- Combo/Poke.....- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Marth:..................Combo/Gimp......- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Meta Knight:............???.............- ???............- ???...........- Kill..........- Kill
Ness:...................Combo/Gimp......- Poke/Gimp......- Poke/Gimp.....- Kill..........- Kill
Olimar:.................Combo/Gimp......- Camp/Gimp......- Camp/Poke/Gimp- Kill/Gimp.....- Kill/Gimp
Peach:..................???.............- ???............- ???...........- Kill..........- Kill
Pikachu:................Combo...........- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Pit:....................Combo/Gimp......- ???............- ???...........- Kill..........- Kill
R.O.B.:.................Combo...........- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Samus:..................???.............- ???............- ???...........- ???...........- Kill
SheiK:..................Combo...........- ???............- ???...........- ???...........- Kill
Snake:..................Combo/Camp/Gimp.- Combo/Camp.....- Camp..........- Camp..........- Kill
Sonic:..................???.............- ???............- ???...........- Kill..........- Kill
Squirtle:...............Combo/Poke......- Poke...........- Poke..........- Kill..........- Kill
Toon Link:..............Combo/Camp......- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Kill..........- Kill
Wario:..................Combo/Camp......- Camp/Poke......- Camp/Poke.....- Camp/Kill.....- Kill
Wolf:...................Combo/Gimp......- Combo/Gimp.....- Poke..........- Poke/Kill.....- Kill
Yoshi:..................Combo/Camp......- Camp...........- Camp..........- Camp/Kill.....- Kill
Zelda:..................Combo...........- Poke...........- Poke..........- Kill..........- Kill
ZSS:....................???.............- ???............- ???...........- ???...........- ???

Also, might wanna C/P the text out of this code box cause I had to tweak the formatting on GW and DK so it'd look right.

 

[noodles]

wow nice list, now i dont feel left out that i didnt make the group :D

 

[toasty]

haha this is infinitely simpler and more efficient than the insanity that I proposed ^_^ One of those "shoot for some other galaxy so that you land in Canada" kinda things haha

good **** =D

 

[stingers]

I just played a good mario...and man, camping is very hard against that guy. I suggest putting Mario into the Ledge Camp/Poke category.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Why was this never stickied?

 

[JCaesar]

I just played a good mario...and man, camping is very hard against that guy. I suggest putting Mario into the Ledge Camp/Poke category.

Very true, I play boss pretty often, and a smart Mario can definitely outcamp ROB on flat terrain. Ledgecamping doesn't work because of the trajectory of the fireballs. He can be comboed at low %s, but you gotta be careful because he can combo you back 10x better.

 

[Overswarm]

Why was this never stickied?

There aren't any ROB room moderators, Mic comes in here every now in though when we talkin binary

 

[Mankosuki]

To be honest, I was expecting more in this "reinvention" of ROB. I mean, we already knew moves degrade when not fresh...

Seems like pretty obvious advice to me. I don't watch vids often, but I figured most people played that way already. I appreciate the effort, but is this all?

I suppose it's new to suggest camping only for mid-percents though.

 

[DRaGZ]

Wait.

Is that honestly what that room was about?

Haven't we all been doing this to begin with?

 

[Mr.E]

I sure don't feel too bad about missing out on the TOPP SEKRIT RUUM if that's all there was to it. hey stickied

Additionally, I love full charge laser snipe kills at high percents. They tend to put the opponent in a disadvantageous position even if dodged, as long as you didn't miss in the first place.

Very true, I play boss pretty often, and a smart Mario can definitely outcamp ROB on flat terrain.

I wouldn't say "outcamp," as Mario can't really camp ROB either. He just forces a melee brawl (GET IT?) lest you get your projectiles Caped to death. FAir cancels Fireballs and beats his BAir, that's about the best I've got on this matchup. Keep your spacing up when going for gimps too, as a Cape can reverse your momentum enough that even NAir/BAir can whiff if you're right on his *** when you start it.

 

[Overswarm]

To be honest, I was expecting more in this "reinvention" of ROB. I mean, we already knew moves degrade when not fresh...

Seems like pretty obvious advice to me. I don't watch vids often, but I figured most people played that way already. I appreciate the effort, but is this all?

I suppose it's new to suggest camping only for mid-percents though.

Pick one of the characters it works on, then stick religiously to the skeleton for a few games and see what happens.

 

[JCaesar]

It all seems like common sense, but how many of you actually follow all this advice in the heat of battle? How many of you consistently save your nair for KOs and don't use it to punish? How many of you aggressively combo until 60% or so, then back off and camp?

One of the most important lessons to take away from this is that in Brawl, unlike in Melee, using the best move for a situation isn't always the best thing to do.

Overswarm (or maybe Sudai), I think you should make a thread to specifically talk about and adjust the character-specific matchup strategies that Sudai originally outlined. This is the next most important thing to work on for the ROB boards.

 

[DRaGZ]

I honestly thought we were all doing this once we found out that moves diminish (although I combo and spam projectiles in the early percents as well instead of just combo).

Well, at least the bare skeleton of it anyway, adjusting as weight increases or decreases. Sudai's chart is nifty though. I primarily like it because I like charts and it makes things like a reference thing.

 

[Sudai]

That's why I made the chart too. I would make a thread for the chart discussion, but honestly, I don't think I'd be able to maintain it for more than a few weeks because I'm a lazy mofo.. >.>

 

[stingers]

Still no change on Mario...>_>

And Mario can easily be ledge camped, you just take advantage of your invincibility if he ever shoots fireballs at you. It's a piece of cake yo

 

[Mr.E]

And Mario can easily be ledge camped

olol cape'd

 

[stingers]

That's the only reason he can't be normally camped.

Ever heard of ledge invincibility?

 

[Mr.E]

Good luck damaging him from there. Not much point since FAir beats everything he has anyway...

 

[stingers]

Well sure you can go up there and attack him but that defeats the whole point of the strategy doesn't it

 

[Sudai]

Ledge camping is useless against Mario unless he's at a higher percent, even then it's still not a great idea. You can't hit him with projectiles (el oh el cape is even easier when you telegraph it from the ledge) and the fireballs make it so you have to time your invincibility. Guess what, can't leave the ledge while you're invincible, guess what else? Mario can position himself to abuse your lack of being able to do stuff. Ledge camping = bad against him.

 

[toasty]

too tired/lazy to scroll up and read...don't ledge camp against Mario. he can force you to use more of your fuel than you'd like by telegraphing your ledge hop projectiles or whatever you decide to do that will result in you grabbing the ledge again...he can FLUDD to push you away and then pressure you and edgeguard you decently and he might gimp you by making you run out of fuel >_>

 

[Mr.E]

The point is that it's a bad strategy against Mario. The Cape will neutralize any attempt of trying to projectile camp on the ledge and he's not quite the slouch Falco is when it comes to removing you from it either. Heck, YOU were the one saying he was "very hard" to camp against! Why even bother trying to camp if aggression works better (he has nothing on FAir and ROB has much better ground range) and also gives you a greater likelihood of a low-percent gimp since his recovery sucks?

Speaking of which, how come Mario isn't listed with "Gimp?" Easier than Lucas...

Man, I spend a few moment looking over the "list" and look what happens, TWO people respond saying the same darned thing before me... Mario's pretty good at ledgeguarding, at any rate. His BAir will also smack you in the head, over your FAir, if you try to ledgehop it. Just stay onstage against him.

 

[Sudai]

Mario isn't in the gimp section as a good Mario will Cape > Up-B your FAir or BAir. You say he's easy to gimp, but go try to gimp a good Mario and we'll see what happens. It doesn't work too well. Yes, it's possible, but you shouldn't be pushing for it like you should against Fox, Falco, Lucas, and the like. It's just so easy to get the characters listed under "gimp" in the position for a gimp, where as with Mario, the positioning is a lot stricter, as is the execution.

 

[TechnoMonster]

The Falco matchup is pretty off I think, Falco vs. ROB is a difficult matchup for ROB. Falco out-damages you and has little to no difficulty recovering from any of ROB's attacks. He also has amazing range and priority on his F-smash to continually knock you off the stage, where he can hassle you with lasers and threaten you with stagespike attempts.

At killing time, his upsmash will kill you at a reasonable percent and a well-timed boost smash isn't difficult to land.

Gimping a good Falco is also very difficult. Prefer to try it at low% rather than high, as he'll fly too far away from your hits to reasonably follow up. He has the option of using his >B to grab the edge or go well onto the stage. ROB can't cover both at once, and if you let him grab the edge, depending on how you space yourself, its 100% safe for him to either >B or stand up, and if you try to time him he can stall on the edge. If he >B's to the stage, you can't punish it out of shield or a spot dodge in most cases, he'll be able to spot dodge any reprisal almost immediately, so treat it more like a tech-chase.

Good falcos will also space a d-air on your shield and then try to space back and f-smash, and this works on everyone but ROB and DK; just drop your shield and F-tilt.

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah the ledge is a bad place to be vs Mario. FLUDD and I believe the cape both work on you when you're invincible, not to mention fireball has the perfect trajectory to dislodge ledgecampers if you mistime your jump. Plus there's no possible way you can retaliate against a good Mario while you're on the ledge. Stingers you should play boss, it will change your mind about the whole matchup. I have little doubt he's the best Mario (and Luigi) in the country.

I know. Meatriding!

TM, the big thing ROB has vs Falco is that Falco is so easy to gimp. Bair beats out anything Falco can do to recover, as long as you can predict it, and it's not that hard. Also Falco's fsmash is generally easy to see coming and easy to punish.

Oh and *some* ROBs would say just fire a laser and then ledgecamp for 7 minutes, but there are better ways to do it -_-

 

[toasty]

TM, the big thing ROB has vs Falco is that Falco is so easy to gimp. Bair beats out anything Falco can do to recover, as long as you can predict it, and it's not that hard. Also Falco's fsmash is generally easy to see coming and easy to punish.

watch out for lagless-laser >>boost usmash relatively low % KO

but for real...lasers are a pain in the ***...yeah you can hang on the ledge and all that nonsense, but it should just be known that this is possibly one of THE most annoying matchups. EDIT: dammit, didn't see your edit...but still! *glares at others*

There's no good "approach" against a Falco.***

Good thing I use Marth =D

***I guess you can spam nair when you're up close like HugS >_> That worked for me when I tried it a bit, but that's hardly an approach at all

 

[JCaesar]

It is really hard to approach Falco. I usually try to bait a shine, fsmash, or boost usmash, all of which are punishable if you shield. Once you get him in the air it's your ballgame.

Oh and tilts are amazing vs Falco.

 

[toasty]

OH, and you can't dthrow--uair him his dair wins. hmmm maybe I should get good at wavebouncing lasers haha...JCaez, you said you can do that really well, what's your way of doing that consistently?

 

[JCaesar]

It's pretty simple, just jump away, press B, then immediately smash the stick back. It's like wavedash timing. Just don't touch the stick too early or you'll side-B, and no one wants that.

There's another neat trick you can do with this too. If you're falling towards them with your back to them, press B and immediately press back, and you'll wavebounce away from them while firing a laser in their direction. At least I'm pretty sure that's how I do it...

 

[toasty]

the application I'm hoping for is to dthrow Falco, jump toward like I'm about to uair, except I'll be doing a wavebounce backward into a laser, and he'll do a dair expecting to beat my uair...of course it's only REALLY useful to save this for when you have a charged laser [which isn't hard against Falco since you shouldn't be using your laser often at ALL unless he's off the stage]

thanks

 

[Overswarm]

Toasty... d-throw to u-tilt if they don't use their second jump.

 

[toasty]

works sometimes, I just want something good for knocking him off the stage

does utilt beat dair?

 

[Overswarm]

It does unless he starts at the right time... which he can't, because if he hesitates you already u-tilted him because the range is greater


plus, you could shield grab

 

[JCaesar]

the application I'm hoping for is to dthrow Falco, jump toward like I'm about to uair, except I'll be doing a wavebounce backward into a laser, and he'll do a dair expecting to beat my uair...of course it's only REALLY useful to save this for when you have a charged laser [which isn't hard against Falco since you shouldn't be using your laser often at ALL unless he's off the stage]

thanks

I dunno if that'll work. You need momentum to wavebounce, and the wavebounce always goes in the opposite direction you're moving. You'd just be wavebouncing back under him. I'd just go with what OS said, or f/bthrow if you're near the edge, or just grab release (I've been doing this A LOT lately) and try to mindgame him.

Oh and I think I might've been wrong about the retreating wavebounced gyro thing. I think you may have to smash the stick towards them to get the reverse wavebounce ... hmm I gotta test it out. You definitely have to be falling towards him with your back to him though.

 

[wkxrawr]

nice guide

 

[JJR.O.B.]

Welcome to Smashboards, wkxrawr!

I am assuming that you are a rob main because you read Overswarm's guide. If you are, stick with ROB he is really fun to play as.