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NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

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Spazzy_D

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Das Koopa said:
Well, like I said - Indie is a huge thing in the gaming community. There's no actual good argument against an indie character in Smash when indie gaming is as important as it is, especially since Nintendo is backing a lot the more famous indie titles/games out there.
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Some of us like the "special guest characters" in Smash to feel like co-headliners. We should be comparing them, in stature and importance, to the A list stars in Smash. I don't feel like when I am considering a third party selection I should have to compare them to Shulk or Ness to justify there entry. They should be able to stand next to Samus, Link, and Mario and not stand out. Once again, these are characters that have been invited to participate in celebration of Nintendo. There are qualifiers for them that do not apply to 1st party characters. This is my opinion, you are free to disagree, but don't down play my point of view because it doesn't coincide with your own.
 
Solfiner

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That art book looks ****ing awesome, good thing it's included in the European one too.
 
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Here are some examples from the Japanese site that show what will probably be included in the art book:






All my money
 
Das Koopa

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AncientTobacco said:
Too bad "Indie" isn't a series.
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It's had collectives millions in sales allocated towards it. The label of "series" is completely arbitrary.

Spazzy_D said:
Some of us like the "special guest characters" in Smash to feel like co-headliners. We should be comparing them, in stature and importance, to the A list stars in Smash. I don't feel like when I am considering a third party selection I should have to compare them to Shulk or Ness to justify there entry. They should be able to stand next to Samus, Link, and Mario and not stand out. Once again, these are characters that have been invited to participate in celebration of Nintendo. There are qualifiers for them that do not apply to 1st party characters. This is my opinion, you are free to disagree, but don't down play my point of view because it doesn't coincide with your own.
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I don't mean to down play your viewpoint, but you yourself are essentially downplaying the importance on Indies based on arbitrary and straining criteria that basically bars any "traditional" indie rep. It's denying a large part of the fanbase a voice, and that's kind of... wrong feeling, especially when Shovel Knight (and more importantly, most of these "traditional indie" reps) is part of that NES/SNES love letter that's in and of itself honoring Nintendo.

I respectfully disagree with you, but... I still feel like it's unintentionally demeaning to a lot of fans :/
 
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Spazzy_D

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Das Koopa said:
It's had collectives millions in sales allocated towards it. The label of "series" is completely arbitrary.



I don't mean to down play your viewpoint, but you yourself are essentially downplaying the importance on Indies based on arbitrary and straining criteria that basically bars any "traditional" indie rep. It's denying a large part of the fanbase a voice, and that's kind of... wrong feeling, especially when Shovel Knight is part of that NES/SNES love letter that's in and of itself honoring Nintendo.

I respectfully disagree with you, but... I still feel like it's unintentionally demeaning to a lot of fans :/
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Nothing against Indies, I play more Indies than almost anything else. I grew up with 2D gaming on the Atari 2600, NES, Master System, SNES, Genesis, Turbo Grafx, etc. These are the types of games I love the most and am most used to, and Indie games often emulate their style. My Steam account, Xbox Live account, and Nintendo Network account are full of indie games.

It's not an actual, genre, though. Indie game encompass all sorts of genres from fighting games to puzzle games to platformers. They aren't made by a single company. We lump them together because they are small and often self published titles. You said it yourself, they have no mascot. They are not a unified entity that requires representation.
 
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Substitution

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I still find it hilarious how before the word "indie" was like Voldemort in speculation. And now there's all this talk on how they deserve getting into Smash.
I find it ironic in a way.
 
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But a lot of what people want represented do fall under a label of "Retro-era callback platformer/metoidvania/megaman-esque/etc." titles. It's not a genre, but it's a collective of small game studios developing games that are callbacks to older games. Why should they need a mascot? They can't have one anyway because the concept is too broad. Should we deny that sect of gaming representation in Smash purely because they can't have a face?

It's not about Shovel Knight for me at this point, either - it's like "Yeah, your games are well-selling, cool, and have a huge fanbase, but none of you are standout enough to get into Smash even though like 10 of you exist on an equal ground of fantastic quality."

At that point for me it's like

 
Spazzy_D

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Das Koopa said:
But a lot of what people want represented do fall under a label of "Retro-era callback platformer/metoidvania/megaman-esque/etc." titles. It's not a genre, but it's a collective of small game studios developing games that are callbacks to older games. Why should they need a mascot? They can't have one anyway because the concept is too broad. Should we deny that sect of gaming representation in Smash purely because they can't have a face?

It's not about Shovel Knight for me at this point, either - it's like "Yeah, your games are well-selling, cool, and have a huge fanbase, but none of you are standout enough to get into Smash even though like 10 of you exist on an equal ground of fantastic quality."

At that point for me it's like

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They don't have one because they're not an actual unified entity. Not all of them make Metroid or retro style games. Further to the point, how are Metroid or Megaman style games not being represented by, you know, Metroid and Megaman reps.
 
PushDustIn

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Zoroarking said:
An "Indie rep" line of thought isn't far off from the "retro rep" one
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In some ways yes, but in some ways no.

Retro reps were created because Sakurai realized that the character selection needs to appeal to a wide variety of people. Retro characters are aimed at the older audiences (Sakurai even joked about being too old for a retro rep in 64).

An indie rep could target people who like indie games. But that begs a question: Why would you select such a potentially alienating choice for Dlc? Indie rep is far more riskier than a character like Ryu. Like I've mentioned before he's nowhere on Japan's mind, and it's the kind of choice that are going to leave some people confused. Sure some of the Smash fans will check out Shovel Knight to see who he is, but it might leave them stretching scratching their head.
 
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Fenriraga

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PushDustIn said:
In some ways yes, but in some ways no.

Retro reps were created because Sakurai realized that the character selection needs to appeal to a wide variety of people. Retro characters are aimed at the older audiences (Sakurai even joked about being too old for a retro rep in 64).

An indie rep could target people who like indie games. But that begs a question: Why would you select such a potentially alienating choice for Dlc? Indie rep is far more riskier than a character like Ryu. Like I've mentioned before he's nowhere on Japan's mind, and it's the kind of choice that are going to leave some people confused. Sure some of the Smash fans will check out Shovel Knight to see who he is, but it might leave them stretching their head.
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I've sort of been meaning to ask you... How is the inclusion of Shovel Knight and his lack of relevance in Japan any different from, say, Marth and Roy in Melee or Lucas in Brawl? Because at the time of those games, they were all Japan Only, with no relevance anywhere outside of Japan.
I don't mean this to be accusatory or even a counter argument, as I pretty much agree with your reasoning, I'm just genuinely curious as to what your take on it is.
 
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[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]

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DarkAura64 said:
I've sort of been meaning to ask you... How is the inclusion of Shovel Knight and his lack of relevance in Japan any different from, say, Marth and Roy in Melee or Lucas in Brawl? Because at the time of those games, they were all Japan Only, with no relevance anywhere outside of Japan.
I don't mean this to be accusatory or even a counter argument, I'm just genuinely curious as to what your take on it is.
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:marthmelee::roymelee::lucas:: Nintendo characters

Shovel Knight: third party character
 
Aurora Jenny

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PushDustIn said:
In some ways yes, but in some ways no.

Retro reps were created because Sakurai realized that the character selection needs to appeal to a wide variety of people. Retro characters are aimed at the older audiences (Sakurai even joked about being too old for a retro rep in 64).

An indie rep could target people who like indie games. But that begs a question: Why would you select such a potentially alienating choice for Dlc? Indie rep is far more riskier than a character like Ryu. Like I've mentioned before he's nowhere on Japan's mind, and it's the kind of choice that are going to leave some people confused. Sure some of the Smash fans will check out Shovel Knight to see who he is, but it might leave them stretching their head.
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Don't you mean scratching their heads, Pushdustin?
 
IceBreakerXY

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MisterVideoGaming said:
I still find it hilarious how before the word "indie" was like Voldemort in speculation. And now there's all this talk on how they deserve getting into Smash.
I find it ironic in a way.
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will you could be someone like me who actually wants an indie in smash since the beginning like quote or shantae.There are people who wants indies ever during smash 4 speculation just the ballot gave people a real reason for be to more vocal with there support
 
Spazzy_D

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DarkAura64 said:
I've sort of been meaning to ask you... How is the inclusion of Shovel Knight and his lack of relevance in Japan any different from, say, Marth and Roy in Melee or Lucas in Brawl? Because at the time of those games, they were all Japan Only, with no relevance anywhere outside of Japan.
I don't mean this to be accusatory or even a counter argument, as I pretty much agree with your reasoning, I'm just genuinely curious as to what your take on it is.
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Those characters weren't DLC, they were on disk. DLC has to SELL to people, it needs to be attractive on it's own.
 
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Hmm something about SK being a ballot choice seems weird to me.

Why would they go with a character whose core fanbase is only in the west? Would it mean another other ballot character is someone highly requested in Japan but would mostly get shrugs here?

Then again if SK really is a ballot character that would mean his demand over here was bigger than we all thought.
 
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Akxareth said:
Hmm something about SK being a ballot choice seems weird to me.

Why would they go with a character whose core fanbase is only in the west? Would it mean another other ballot character is someone highly requested in Japan but would mostly get shrugs here?

Then again if SK really is a ballot character that would mean his demand over here was bigger than we all thought.
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I think it helps that this is the first time in the series's history that a Smash ballot is open to everyone rather than primarily the Japanese audience. I'd imagine they'd want to show that them doing so wasn't just to pretend they were listening.
Shovel Knight is STILL an odd choice even with that being considered though.
 
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