NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

[Swamp Sensei]

This is the kind of attitude more people need to have. I think I like you.

No offense but I think you're just saying that because he agrees with you.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

The female equal to Link having the same journey as him wouldn't even make sense considering the whole Spirit of the Hero thing.

Wouldn't she then technically be a trans-man lead because she's going to feel like a man inside?

Hero is actually a pretty gender neutral term these days. But yeah poor word choice. Original Japanese script could have been gender neutral in Demise's curse on the Spirit of the Hero, and English doesn't really have gender neutral terms.

I doubt that would be true.

Especially in the times where we've had Tetra, Hyrule Warriors Zelda, Sheik, etc.

This is now a series where Zelda clearly has taken action in her own ways and became an action character in her own right.

Fair enough. But I've never really seen Zelda as someone who goes to frontline at the start, and only goes there acts when she needs to, with a plan she's has in mind as well for when she does go.

 

[AreJay25]

Metal Sheik Solid would honestly be pretty cool.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

dang i hope this doesn't mean it's sold out :/

I just jumped all over that and my order got through as of like 5 minutes ago.

 

[Kenith]

Are the incarnation of Link and the incarnation of Zelda one and the same this time?

I don't think there's anything actually forbidding this, now I think about it.

 

[Deleted member]

[collapse=]That already happened.

[/collapse]

Kind of not what I meant.
I meant there was no need for a Link because the Zelda is much more capable at handling things on her own.
So naturally, the Link would be more or less in the way.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

No offense but I think you're just saying that because he agrees with you.

Do you disagree that that is a good attitude?

Because, funny story, he doesn't agree with me on everything. "Link as a girl." That's not what I've been advocating. "Link is no longer an avatar but his own character." Nah, I don't agree with that, either. But he's on the right track overall, and the drawn conclusion is a good one.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Since we're back at this debate again, I'll turn in for the night. I hope we get some kinda announcement soon. I mean splatoon's update is great but I mean something to speculate over.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Hell, I think Ruto or a Zora princess or a princess neighboring Hyrule being the female playable character is a pretty interesting path too.

Zelda sending Impa out to do a quest of her own. There's a lot of options for a female driven Zelda story alongside Link's.

Ones that changes the female playable from just ''I have the same abilities as Link" to something unique.

Because honestly I find issue with this recent swing of ''I can't play/watch/read this, because I don't identify with this because of my genitalia."

Yes, diversity is nice and necessary, but at the same time if the only reason you can't identify with a person or character is because of their sex, that's a new issue we also need to discuss.

After all I don't play most of the females I play in games because I identify with them. I'm not motherly like Rosalina, I'm not regal like Zelda, I don't have a quest for justice or vengance like most of the Street Fighter ladies/Samus, etc.

I just find them cool gameplay wise/character wise/story wise.

 

[Deleted member]

How about we all become allies to focus on our common enemy?

Spoiler

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you disagree that that is a good attitude?.

His attitude was fine. But so were several people who had opposite views.

But you felt the need to compliment the shoemeister.

I think we both know why.

Because, funny story, he doesn't agree with me on everything. "Link as a girl." That's not what I've been advocating. "Link is no longer an avatar but his own character." Nah, I don't agree with that, either. But he's on the right track overall, and the drawn conclusion is a good one.

"Right track?"

Because you like it, it's right.

I'm sorry but other opinions are just as valid and "right" here.

 

[ThePenguinGamer0]

I'm really excited to go to Funspot tomorrow if you couldn't tell.

 

[AreJay25]

How about we all become allies to focus on our common enemy?

Spoiler

View attachment 67614

>Minions

 

[A Distant Demon]

this thread right now

Spoiler

How about we all become allies to focus on our common enemy?

Spoiler

View attachment 67614

Just came back from /r/wackytictacs and /r/minionhate.

it's following me
edit close your darn spoilers :/

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I actually like the Minions.

I think it's obvious they're designed for a certain age range and they fit right into the medium they were created for.

I do think they're starting to over-saturate the market, but they're still perfectly fine children's characters.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

>Minions

Would you rather prefer this.

Spoiler

I actually don't mind either the Rabbids or Minions that much.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Because honestly I find issue with this recent swing of ''I can't play/watch/read this, because I don't identify with this because of my genitalia."

Yes, diversity is nice and necessary, but at the same time if the only reason you can't identify with a person or character is because of their sex, that's a new issue we also need to discuss.

After all I don't play most of the females I play in games because I identify with them. I'm not motherly like Rosalina, I'm not regal like Zelda, I don't have a quest for justice or vengance like most of the Street Fighter ladies/Samus, etc.

I just find them cool gameplay wise/character wise/story wise.

Again, if there was a better ratio of leads in general, this argument wouldn't be happening. It's not about being completely unable to identify, it's about the vast majority of game leads being male, even when some have no specific need to be. It's hard to understand when you've never dealt with being part of the under-represented group.

His attitude was fine. But so were several people who had opposite views.

But you felt the need to compliment the shoemeister.

I think we both know why.


"Right track?"

Because you like it, it's right.

I'm sorry but other opinions are just as valid and "right" here.

"Change is usually good, and it could make more people happy

No reason to argue, we all like Nintendo and want more happiness for more people with games, right?"

That's what I was referring to with "good attitude." Notice that it has absolutely nothing to do with my specific argument. How many respondents had this kind of positive outlook? Most of them were just saying we should keep the status quo just because. I never said anyone's opinion was invalid or wrong, either, just that I liked this person's outlook overall. What the hell is the big deal with that?

Now that I think about it...what are you even trying to say? That my opinions are opinions and not everyone agrees? No ****.

 

[Schnee117]

That moment when your brothers are watching "Despicable Me" and Minions are brought up.

 

[AreJay25]

I'll say this.

I actually like the first 2 Despicable Me movies.

But I don't like how the Minions are everywhere.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Soon, we'll be rerating King K. Rool in this thread yet again (deja vu).
http://smashboards.com/threads/rate...-and-baby-mario.398604/page-231#post-19892361
Certainly would like to hear thoughts when the day comes.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

So on a much lighter I decided to play through Pokemon Gold again, since I replaced my battery and all. I will not let this be lost forever this time. And I have to say the way you get Kurt to make pokeballs for you in this game is tedious. Also do I really have to wait Blackthrone City to delete Flash from my move pool? And no I'm not catching and training a to start over. I actually have attachment to my Pokemon. So is there a confusion TM in Gold and Silver?

Also who was doing that Gen 6 nuzlocke again?

 

[Ivander]

I'm not against extra options or a female protagonist for Legend of Zelda, but I am against adding stuff for "the sake of adding stuff". Especially as stuff like that tends to be either rushed or is very bare compared to most stuff that is actually planned. That being said, I'd much rather see Link get a twin sibling(mostly a twin brother more than a twin sister) before a female option.

 

[PushDustIn]

I was thinking about this after I logged off last night.

Here's my thoughts:

1. The Zelda series relies on evoking nostalgia to the highest degree. In the end, I'm afraid that having a female lead might not evoke the same reaction. Actually not even just a female lead, any other character that isn't Link. It'd feel like a spin off game than a proper Zelda.
2. Link is a character. He's in Mario Kart 8, Smash,etc. He's always been a man its his thing.
3. In the end I don't like saying we should have female representation just for the sake if having it. I don't think it's always necessary. Gender options are good for some games, but in my opinion it would feel so weird in Zelda. Character customization has never been a part of Zelda.
4. That being said I wouldn't mind it if it was vital to tell a story. If the development team felt that having a female protagonist would tell their vision the best, then I could accept it. As of right now I simply don't think it's 100% necessary.

Oh btw, lets play nice with each other. There's no need for the passive aggressiveness.

 

[Naoshi]

So on a much lighter I decided to play through Pokemon Gold again, since I replaced my battery and all. I will not let this be lost forever this time. And I have to say the way you get Kurt to make pokeballs for you in this game is tedious. Also do I really have to wait Blackthrone City to delete Flash from my move pool? And no I'm not catching and training a to start over. I actually have attachment to my Pokemon. So is there a confusion TM in Gold and Silver?

Also who was doing that Gen 6 nuzlocke again?

Nice. That's my favorite Pokemon game! How easy is soldering as someone who never had experienced using one before?

 

[Deleted member]

So on a much lighter I decided to play through Pokemon Gold again, since I replaced my battery and all. I will not let this be lost forever this time. And I have to say the way you get Kurt to make pokeballs for you in this game is tedious. Also do I really have to wait Blackthrone City to delete Flash from my move pool? And no I'm not catching and training a to start over. I actually have attachment to my Pokemon. So is there a confusion TM in Gold and Silver?

Also who was doing that Gen 6 nuzlocke again?

That would be me.
I'll probably continue it tomorrow since I'm feeling lazy today
Also, good luck with Gen 2 mechanics

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Link doesn't really even feel like a man, to be honest.
View attachment 67613

Y'know, I think you might be on to something, whether you intended it or not...

Observing this argument from a distance, I can safely say there's an important question nobody's answering (but it's been asked a bunch of times): How much does it really matter?

Link's gender doesn't play a significant role in the story (except, potentially, for the sake of bearing future Heroes of Time - but that effectively takes place outside of the game, hence it's not a part of the game's story for the time being). The only reason it matters is they can't risk him losing his iconic-ness - we all identify him as the tall, slender elf-guy clad in green. Introducing full character customization would kill the franchise outright. Picking a gender (I particularly like Linkle's design, even if her name is rather uninspired) should be possible in a perfect world, but sadly we don't have that - we instead have a financially significant number of entitled fans who might react negatively, and while there's absolutely no defending their behavior, the problem is it's bad business to tick them off. Hence, we have a gap - and I'd put money down that the developers have not only identified it, but have already been putting a solution into place.

What do you notice about Link's design with each new iteration?

Spoiler

We see him becoming more and more androgynous. This is critically important to the claim that Link is literally the link between player and character! The designers want you to associate with this character, whether you're male or female, so his design draws attention away from the fact that he's a man. He's not some buff macho-man like Kratos or Nathan Drake - he's a tall, slender, skinny dude whose appearance is as far from threatening as you can get.

Sadly, I can find no source that says this outright, but to me, it's evident that the problem is clear in the developers' minds. Were he not an iconic character, there'd be a simple solution, but in his case, it's not as cut and dry. What we have instead is a patch, one that gets a little better with each iteration. Is it a perfect solution? No. But at least they're trying.

 

[Curious Villager]

Minion's? Rabbit's?

Pikmin are my bro's! *Watches the Pikmin animated short's*

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I never said anyone's opinion was invalid or wrong, either, .

It's the truth. I'm not sorry.

Yeah you have.

Most of them weren't saying keep the status quo.

A lot of them just don't like the way you want it changed.

I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion, just part of your behavior because even if you don't mean it.

It's coming off as needlessly aggressive and condescending.

So let's just calm down.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's hard to understand when you've never dealt with being part of the under-represented group.

I think I understand perfectly well how it is to be a part of a under-represented group in the gaming industry.

I mean I'm a gay man.

At least you guys have female gaming icons like Samus, Chun Li, Sonya Blade, Lara Croft, Zelda, Peach, etc.

Where's my iconic gay gaming icon?

Honestly, I think there should be more iconic icons of varying races, genders, and sexualities, yes but as a gay man that has pretty much nobody?

I don't feel like having myself almost completely non-existent in the medium has greatly affected my life as a gamer or affected my enjoyment of playing games. Because I'm more than my sexuality and I can find my representation elsewhere in other more important traits about me.

 

[Kenith]

Y'know, I think you might be on to something, whether you intended it or not...

Observing this argument from a distance, I can safely say there's an important question nobody's answering (but it's been asked a bunch of times): How much does it really matter?

Link's gender doesn't play a significant role in the story (except, potentially, for the sake of bearing future Heroes of Time - but that effectively takes place outside of the game, hence it's not a part of the game's story for the time being). The only reason it matters is they can't risk him losing his iconic-ness - we all identify him as the tall, slender elf-guy clad in green. Introducing full character customization would kill the franchise outright. Picking a gender (I particularly like Linkle's design, even if her name is rather uninspired) should be possible in a perfect world, but sadly we don't have that - we instead have a financially significant number of entitled fans who might react negatively, and while there's absolutely no defending their behavior, the problem is it's bad business to tick them off. Hence, we have a gap - and I'd put money down that the developers have not only identified it, but have already been putting a solution into place.

What do you notice about Link's design with each new iteration?

Spoiler

We see him becoming more and more androgynous. This is critically important to the claim that Link is literally the link between player and character! The designers want you to associate with this character, whether you're male or female, so his design draws attention away from the fact that he's a man. He's not some buff macho-man like Kratos or Nathan Drake - he's a tall, slender, skinny dude whose appearance is as far from threatening as you can get.

Sadly, I can find no source that says this outright, but to me, it's evident that the problem is clear in the developers' minds. Were he not an iconic character, there'd be a simple solution, but in his case, it's not as cut and dry. What we have instead is a patch, one that gets a little better with each iteration. Is it a perfect solution? No. But at least they're trying.

You know, I think you have a point.
Of course, this only applies to the new Zelda. In Skyward Sword his gender was important (he had an obvious relationship with Zelda) and that was the last game.
But regardless, valid observation. I noticed it as well, but didn't mention it...

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Nice. That's my favorite Pokemon game! How easy is soldering as someone who never had experienced using one before?

It should actually be pretty easy if you are careful, and make sure the room is well ventilated, because melting sodder will cause smoke to appear. Also don't touch the metal on a soddering iron, because it can burn you.

And yeah Gen 2 games are my favourite as well. Although my favourite Pokemon Absol is actually from Gen 3 lol

 

[epicmartin7]

About the Link Gender Discussion...

 

[Khoru]

The female equal to Link having the same journey as him wouldn't even make sense considering the whole Spirit of the Hero thing.

Wouldn't she then technically be a trans-man lead because she's going to feel like a man inside?

"spirit of the hero" is very ambiguous
it could mean a literal spirit, in which links can communicate with past ones like in avatar (see TP)
and does reinarnation not traditionally involve turning into different things/people? (cat link)
or it could mean it like a meme, a set of ideals possessed by links
the fact that it's worded that way in comparison to "resurrection of the goddess" means that no assumptions should be made either way, unless japanese was less ambiguous

 

[PushDustIn]

@ KenboCalrissian I think it's too early to really tell. No doubt somewhere in the story Link is going to get his iconic garb. Can't really tell if they are going for an androgynous character or if that's the character that fits in the best with the story, and game design. Plus Skyward Sword featured a very clearly male Link.

You have to remember even Tetra, one of the most developed female characters in the Zelda series, transformed into Zelda.

 

[AreJay25]

Not sure if this was posted but I found this interesting.

http://mynintendonews.com/2015/08/10/mighty-no-9-creator-says-he-doesnt-make-games-that-he-can-play/

 

[Kenith]

I think I understand perfectly well how it is to be a part of a under-represent group in the gaming industry.
I mean I'm a gay man.
At least you guys have female gaming icons like Samus, Chun Li, Sonya Blade, Lara Croft, Zelda, Peach, etc.
Where's my iconic gay gaming icon?

Now that you say that...

Spoiler

[/quote]
Look who's made his fabulous return...

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Anyone bought the 3 Retro Amiibo pack from Gamestop's online store?

http://www.gamestop.com/accessories/amiibo-retro-3-pack-exclusive/123757

Still seems to be in stock

Thanks for linking that here, I really wanted a R.O.B. amiibo and I was worried about the inevitable difficulty of getting him at a reasonable price (don't really care for Duck Hunt and Game & Watch, but they're neat enough I'll pay for them too to ensure a R.O.B.).

Now to hope they don't mess with the preorders...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Now that you say that...

Spoiler

Look who's made his fabulous return...

I dunno.

I mean a lot of "gay" characters just seem better off as asexual to me.

I just find Ghirahim more interesting if he's like *naturally* (since he's an enchanted sword) drawn to Demise as opposed to romantically or sexually.

Still, he's definitely got the flair for the stereotype.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Yeah you have.

"Incredibly naive and short-sighted" = "Your opinion is invalid."

May I ask for a bit more explanation?

I think I understand perfectly well how it is to be a part of a under-represent group in the gaming industry.

I mean I'm a gay man.

At least you guys have female gaming icons like Samus, Chun Li, Sonya Blade, Lara Croft, Zelda, Peach, etc.

Where's my iconic gay gaming icon?

Honestly, I think there should be more iconic icons of varying races and sexualities, yes but as a gay man that has pretty much nobody?

I don't feel like having myself almost completely non-existent in the medium has greatly affected my life as a gamer or affected my enjoyment of playing games. Because I'm more than my sexuality and I can find my representation elsewhere in other more important traits about me.

Okay, you are part of an under-represented group. At the same time, though, your case usually isn't so clear. Who's to say any given Link isn't gay? I'm pretty sure his sexual orientation is rarely, if ever, confirmed, but his gender always is. And this is really the case for pretty much any character in a game without obvious romance or romantic implications.

I don't mean to undermine your side of this, I'm a strong LGBT advocate myself, but in regards to Zelda specifically, look at it like this: you can, if you desire, project yourself onto Link better than most girls can. You're male, and Link is clearly male in all Zelda games to this point. Is he gay or straight? Technically, we don't know! So if you were projecting yourself onto Link, as is the intention with the character, that part of you would not be compromised in most cases. As a girl, though, a big part of her identity is compromised right from the beginning. And this is probably more often the case in games in general. The game itself doesn't often let you choose your sexuality, but plenty of them don't do anything to compromise it, either.

And don't think for a moment that I'm against more explicit gay representation in gaming, I'm all for it, just that there's a bit of apples and oranges going on here.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Look who's made his fabulous return...

Like a proper gay man. I'm pretty sure he's just like Tingle and has ''feminine" traits.

Either way...

I feel like we as human beings in an attempt to unbox ourselves and fight for what we want and believe, forget often that we're complex individuals. We're more than our gender, hair color, eye color, sexuality. Many things make us up.

And sometimes it feels like in this journey for political correctness (which is again absoultely not irrelevant and should be necessary and is something we need to work on) we label ourselves one of the many things that make us who we are.

And take our big picture and just sometimes sort of remove that one puzzle piece and wave it around.

I don't know. Maybe it's me, but I like to look at the bigger picture of what makes Roger Smith, Roger Smith and not just that one, yes, important puzzle piece, I want respected.