NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

[Captain Shwampy]

That looks cool, let me google "Prison High School".
2 seconds later
...

How does it feel reading one of the best recent manga's along with One Punch Man, Boku Girl, and Hero Academia

 

[Baskerville]

Let's just make the entire cast of Smash female and change the name to Super Bash Sisters, that'll make everyone happy.

Y'know... Super Bash Sisters would make a good sub series...

 

[AreJay25]

Guys, I thought we were finished with this Link argument earlier...

 

[Kenith]

This is incredibly naive and short-sighted.

Link is an avatar. Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc. have stated this themselves. It's in the damn name, he's the "link" between the player and the world. This isn't something we made up, it's literally the analogy used for him by Nintendo. Link is meant to be "you." You name the character at the beginning of the game.

Yes, the series was made with a male audience in mind. That's not a problem in context, it's how things were in the 80s and it's why most of Nintendo's long-running franchises feature male leads. But that's no excuse to leave things as they are; they need to grow with the times and the player bases. Pokemon started with a male lead, then Game Freak noticed that girls were also playing and introduced female options from then on. Why can't Zelda do the same?

As is in what you quoted, Link is not the same character every time. Nearly every Zelda game has a different character being used as that game's "Link," much like the Pokemon protagonists are never the same character as before. This is not the same as Mario, Sonic, Donkey Kong, etc. because those are the same character every time, and they are not avatar characters, again, as I said in the post you quoted.

I'm not asking to change the current Link at all. Did adding Leaf in FireRed/LeafGreen change who Red is? No, of course not. Why would it be any different with Link?

I don't like pulling the "male privilege" card, but have you any idea what it's like to be a girl playing a game as a character that is meant to be "you" and not even be able to have the character be a girl? It's happened often enough throughout history that many are desensitized to it now, and male gamers who always play as male characters rarely, if ever, run into this problem for their gender.

While I agree with your argument, you could use some work on presenting it in a not-condescending way.
"Incredibly naive and short-sighted"? Really?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

This is incredibly naive and short-sighted.

Link is an avatar. Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc. have stated this themselves. It's in the damn name, he's the "link" between the player and the world. This isn't something we made up, it's literally the analogy used for him by Nintendo. Link is meant to be "you." You name the character at the beginning of the game.

Yes, the series was made with a male audience in mind. That's not a problem in context, it's how things were in the 80s and it's why most of Nintendo's long-running franchises feature male leads. But that's no excuse to leave things as they are; they need to grow with the times and the player bases. Pokemon started with a male lead, then Game Freak noticed that girls were also playing and introduced female options from then on. Why can't Zelda do the same?

As is in what you quoted, Link is not the same character every time. Nearly every Zelda game has a different character being used as that game's "Link," much like the Pokemon protagonists are never the same character as before. This is not the same as Mario, Sonic, Donkey Kong, etc. because those are the same character every time, and they are not avatar characters, again, as I said in the post you quoted.

I'm not asking to change the current Link at all. Did adding Leaf in FireRed/LeafGreen change who Red is? No, of course not. Why would it be any different with Link?

I don't like pulling the "male privilege" card, but have you any idea what it's like to be a girl playing a game as a character that is meant to be "you" and not even be able to have the character be a girl? It's happened often enough throughout history that many are desensitized to it now, and male gamers who always play as male characters rarely, if ever, run into this problem for their gender.

What's interesting though is that if you could choose for Link to be female, the game almost has to respond by making Zelda male. It's heavily implied that the Triforce players are related via lineage (for at least several games, maybe not all of them), so if Link and Zelda can't make a baby, presumably there's no more Hero of Time.

Not that this is a problem - a Prince Zelda would be pretty nifty to see, if only to see a heroine saving a prince for a change.

 

[Naoshi]

Have you read my posts? Please do, because I cover all of these (bad) arguments.

Your attitude isn't helping you know

but whatever

 

[Kenith]

Let's just make the entire cast of Smash female and change the name to Super Bash Sisters, that'll make everyone happy.

Shovel Knight's got you covered.
They're adding gender-swaps at the press of a button with DLC.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/01/1...playable-character-will-be-the-plague-knight/

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

I'd be all over an all-girl Smash.

While I agree with your argument, you could use some work on presenting it in a not-condescending way.
"Incredibly naive and short-sighted"? Really?

It's the truth. I'm not sorry.

What's interesting though is that if you could choose for Link to be female, the game almost has to respond by making Zelda male. It's heavily implied that the Triforce players are related via lineage (for at least several games, maybe not all of them), so if Link and Zelda can't make a baby, presumably there's no more Hero of Time.

Not that this is a problem - a Prince Zelda would be pretty nifty to see, if only to see a heroine saving a prince for a change.

I wouldn't mind that, but it's not necessary. I don't know what implication you're talking about, but it's never been suggested that Link and Zelda actually hook up.

Your attitude isn't helping you know

but whatever

It's the truth. I'm not sorry.

It's especially annoying when I rebut specific arguments, then someone joins the conversation and just spits out those same arguments. If you're gonna get yourself involved, at least know what's going on.

 

[Deleted member]

Due to the wording on his post I'm not going to continue this argument as there seems to be a level of disrespect going on here after I write this section.

I will say that if anyone thinks turning Link into a female helps women have more power with gaming and more inclusive are fighting for all the wrong reasons and only for aesthetics and not caring about the true things we SHOULD be fighing for like original female LEADS, not wanting merely to put female in the roles me have been in before in their series and not wanting to merely just have female characters in our favorite game series for these aesthetic reasons.

If we genderswap characters, all we are saying is that a man can make the spotlight and a woman can be in that spotlight as long as he follows the same theme.

 

[Deleted member]

You keep saying that Link stands as an avatar, a sort of link between player and character, but for me, and I'm sure many others, I've always viewed as the link in time, he is the one who can travel to the past and the future. Hence "A Link to the Past".

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

I will say that if anyone thinks turning Link into a female

See, you're not even properly reading my posts. Maybe if you did, you'd have a better grasp on what I'm actually saying.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

They should Ranma 1/2 link


Cold water turns him into a girl
Hot water reverts him back to a boy

 

[FinalStarmen]

Guys, I thought we were finished with this Link argument earlier...

This thread is like a restaurant who serves the same bottomless burgers and fries, only with slightly different ingredients. Only, in this case, the burgers and fries are arguments, and we never get to leave the table before eating too much of them. Delicious.

 

[Kenith]

@Kokonoe Listen man, I owe you an apology. I internally thought of you as being extremely disrespectful to me.
Turns out I forgot what extremely disrespectful was like.
(although there was a level of that going on, but not from you)

I watched SGB play P.T today.
I cried.
I would kickstart that in a heart beat.

There's always PuniTy.

Jim Sterling language warning, but luckily this is the one video he doesn't open with a crazy profanity lol.
Also, there's a spiritual successor called Alyson Road.

 

[Deleted member]

Are we seriously coming to a point where we can't have a male protagonist in a game without it being "offensive"?


Also, you could name every character in Chrono Trigger including Crono and he's also a silent protagonist. Would it be necessary to add a female version of him? Should it have been? Does it take away anything from the game experience if you are female?

I wouldn't mind that, but it's not necessary. I don't know implication you're talking about, but it's never been suggested that Link and Zelda actually hook up.

Zelda 2, implied with Tetra and WW Link and ****ing Skyward Sword where it's pretty clear

 

[Tree Gelbman]

This subject is bordering on tethering into Tumblr levels of argument.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Are we seriously coming to a point where we can't have a male protagonist in a game without it "offensive"?

Is reading so difficult?

This is from my first post on the matter:

Someone said it would be like changing Mario to female, but that's not correct. Mario, and others like Samus, Pit, Donkey Kong, etc. are not avatar characters. They are not specifically made to be representations of the player. They are characters with their own name (remember that every Zelda game has you enter your own name for "Link") and, sometimes, personality.

There is a difference between an avatar and a defined character. Link is the former, Mario is the latter.

 

[Deleted member]

So....Ness is an avatar? (I assume Lucas too)

 

[Deleted member]

Is reading so difficult?

This is from my first post on the matter:

There is a difference between an avatar and a defined character. Link is the former, Mario is the latter.

Link stopped being an avatar character after the first game.
What defines him as an avatar? Naming him means nothing, as I said, you can rename all CT party members.
You're pretty much saying Link is a character as much as the Pokemon Trainers are.

So....Ness is an avatar? (I assume Lucas too)

Ness' dog too
And his favorite food

 

[Deleted member]

Ness' dog too
And his favorite food

I forget, did the favorite food you set for him affect something like the name of the PSI Rockin' or am I thinking of something else?

 

[Fenriraga]

This subject is bordering on tethering into Tumblr levels of argument.

While we're at it, Nintendo needs to get with the times and give the Zelda games voice acti-

 

[Tree Gelbman]

At this point I think it's silly to still call Link an avatar character. His intentions might have started at that, but he's clearly no longer one.

He's just a character now. Being an avatar was part of his development origin, but that's all.

He's evolved into his own individual as much as Zelda and Ganon themselves have.

Each Link is a silent protagonist, sure, but every Link has different traits and characteristics. Some Links are serious, others are goofy, others are in between.

You'll find that unlike most true avatar characters Link has a lot more personality that you don't shape unlike say Shepard in Mass Effect.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Link stopped being an avatar character after the first game.
What defines him as an avatar? Naming him means nothing, as I said, you can rename all CT party members.
You're pretty much saying Link is a character as much as the Pokemon Trainers are.

Except no, because all Zelda games still treat Link the same...

Link is an avatar as defined by the creators. He is silent and nameless. Or is the word of Nintendo not strong enough?

 

[Kenith]

I forget, did the favorite food you set for him affect something like the name of the PSI Rockin' or am I thinking of something else?

No, that's his favorite thing.
His favorite food is what you eat whenever you come back home.
(My Ness eats Dirt for example )

 

[Deleted member]

I forget, did the favorite food you set for him affect something like the name of the PSI Rockin' or am I thinking of something else?

That was his "favorite thing"
The food affected what his mom would cook whenever you rested at home
EDIT: 'd by

 

[Naoshi]

I ended up with "Pizza" and then there's already Pizza as an item in the game


lol

 

[Curious Villager]

I forget, did the favorite food you set for him affect something like the name of the PSI Rockin' or am I thinking of something else?

His favourite food affect's what Ness's mother will cook for him. I think in Mother 3 there was also a healing food item that gets named after your favourite food.

 

[Deleted member]

No, that's his favorite thing.
His favorite food is what you eat whenever you come back home.
(My Ness eats Dirt for example )

If I ever get the game, I'm making Ness eat bull testicles for dinner every night.

And his ultimate attack shall be "PK PINGAS!"

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Except no, because all Zelda games still treat Link the same...

Link is an avatar as defined by the creators. He is silent and nameless. Or is the word of Nintendo not strong enough?

I'm convinced you've never even played a Zelda game now. The Link of Skyward Sword for example?

Totally different personality from the one in Twilight Princess, or even Toon Link.

Also it's pretty obvious his name is Link, when even a recent Zelda spin-off labels him that.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

At this point I think it's silly to still call Link an avatar character. His intentions might have started at that, but he's clearly no longer one.

He's just a character now. Being an avatar was part of his development origin, but that's all.

He's evolved into his own individual as much as Zelda and Ganon themselves have.

Each Link is a silent protagonist, sure, but every Link has different traits and characteristics. Some Links are serious, others are goofy, others are in between.

You'll find that unlike most true avatar characters Link has a lot more personality that you don't shape unlike say Shepard in Mass Effect.

Well most of Link's character traits don't really apply to him being male. So Link doesn't have to be male. Since most of his traits aren't gender specific.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Well most of Link's character traits don't really apply to him being male. So Link doesn't have to be male. Since most of his traits aren't gender specific.

While true, that's just splitting hairs. No personality trait is gender specific. There can be a guy like Princess Peach.

Or a girl like Luigi. Etc, etc, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Well most of Link's character traits don't really apply to him being male. So Link doesn't have to be male. Since most of his traits aren't gender specific.

If we're gonna talk about gender traits, then that's pushing gender roles
Do you REALLY want to start that?

 

[Kenith]

I think there's a massive misunderstanding going on here.
Are most of you bothered with a female Link (I would be), OR the option for a female lead in a Zelda game?
If the latter, why?
I've been hearing people ask "what does it add" and I respond with "what does it hurt"?

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

I'm convinced you've never even played a Zelda game now. The Link of Skyward Sword for example?

Totally different personality from the one in Twilight Princess, or even Toon Link.

Also it's pretty obvious his name is Link, when even a recent Zelda spin-off labels him that.

The only Zelda games I haven't played to completion are the original, Zelda 2, the Oracle games, Four Swords (on GameCube), and Spirit Tracks. Thank you very much.

So what? No, really, what does this have to do with anything? I know each Link is different, I've stated that multiple times. Did you misinterpret when I said all Zelda games "treat him the same?" I meant that in the sense that he's always nameless (aka does not have a set name and is named by the player) and silent.

Spin-offs are spin-offs. Robin in Fire Emblem: Awakening is clearly an avatar, I doubt anyone would argue with that, yet Smash Bros. still labels them "Robin." When you're putting an avatar character into a separate game, you just use a default name.

 

[A Distant Demon]

While true, that's just splitting hairs. No personality trait is gender specific. There can be a guy like Princess Peach.

Or a girl like Luigi. Etc, etc, etc.

yeah about that

Literally anything is better than how this argument is going.

TIL Hilda was in Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland. neat.

 

[Naoshi]

Anyone bought the 3 Retro Amiibo pack from Gamestop's online store?

http://www.gamestop.com/accessories/amiibo-retro-3-pack-exclusive/123757

Still seems to be in stock

 

[Kenith]

While true, that's just splitting hairs. No personality trait is gender specific. There can be a guy like Princess Peach.

Case in point: Roger Smith.
(at least you're like my headcanon of Peach)

 

[AreJay25]

I'm going out for a walk.

Hopefully this argument will be done by the time I come back.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well today's argument certainly is different from the usual ones....

I give you guys that....

 

[Starlight_Lily]

While true, that's just splitting hairs. No personality trait is gender specific. There can be a guy like Princess Peach.

Or a girl like Luigi. Etc, etc, etc.

Just something I really wanted to note really nothing more to it really.

Honestly if we talk about things important character traits to characters like Luigi, if you removed the fact he and Mario are brothers, it loses a lot of its depth. Also I loved the fact the Mario and Luigi Partners in Time made Mario, Luigi and Peach childhood friends, because it adds a lot of depth to their relationship with each other