NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

[TheAnvil]

More of a point with the CSS for me is if another scaledown would cause anything substantial to happen: ex, anything becoming unreadable like G&W's name. I know it can be scaled down, but I'm wondering if it's still practical.

They can always remove the names like they did on the 3DS or abbreviate like they did on Melee

I also want to point out that scaling the Icons is not the only possible way of rescaling the screen, there's no reason why they can't downscale the 4 (or more depending if you're playing in 8 player Smash) player boxes at the bottom of the screen.

 

[PushDustIn]

I feel the trophy is a bigger strike against them than the costume is.

And before anyone says "durrrrr lucas and mewtwo got trophies too!", they weren't randomly thrown into a DLC update. They were in the base game, before the DLC was planned (allegedly, according to Sakurai). We got an Inkling trophy after DLC plans begun.

Common sense should tell anyone that if there was any plans to make Inkling a DLC newcomer, they wouldn't have sent a trophy out like that. They'd save it for the actual DLC.

Personally, I feel that the trophy was a backup in case Splatoon totally bombed. That's one case where I think something was added into Smash purely for marketing purposes, as it was probably decided way before Splatoon launched.

As anyone who's familiar with me knows, I'm already a firm believer already that there's not much left.

So, while there was no convincing required with me, I think you did a great job of laying out all the facts and theories that point towards the pragmatic side being right (right again, I should say, since we won on the main game's roster too, lol).

I don't think it's gonna convince a lot of people, and the majority are gonna continue to guess there's a billion characters left and we're gonna get every single veteran and a dozen third parties, but I think this will at least have people start to question what's realistic and what isn't.

I didn't miss anything, did I?

I agree the character data would be useful, but I don't see why they'd make a ballot that runs for 6 months only to follow it for 2~ of those months before beginning character development. While the information can be useful for future Smash games, it seems incredibly misleading to release ballot content months before it ends. People won't vote anymore if it's announced that the content is already finalized, hence, I don't expect any announcements until after the ballot is done.

Releasing it on-the-date-of would also probably raise eyebrows when Sakurai has openly stated (possibly exaggerated) how long it takes him and his development team to make characters. Sure, they're more focused now that the game's out, but there's also a smaller development team that also has to handle balancing an ever-expanding roster.

I agree that it's likely they'll begin work on ballot content prior to the end of the ballot, but I don't expect ballot content until April-June 2016 and I expect 2-4 characters prior to that in a period ranging from August to October, with 2 being more likely due to their limited resources.

My biggest issue with more than 2 is the CSS, but do we know what the CSS would look like if the resolution went lower? Would it still be able to accommodate sizing down to fit an additional two characters? Also, hasn't it downsized itself already before to fit the current DLC cast?

Not really. Sakurai already said that Lucas and Roy were "highly requested" veterans. There's been market research, and I'm sure the team/Sakurai knows what characters are being asked for in general.

I think they will announce the last character, and have some time open for the ballot for the next Smash game. I don't think it was exaggerated, it's been said the same exact way as the other ballots. It's just the first time they released it in English, so people got incredibly hyped over it.

The CSS could be downsized, but they they would have to include even more icons in the next update. Every time they decrease the size, the icons get a new folder.

 

[Das Koopa]

They can always remove the names like they did on the 3DS or abbreviate like they did on Melee

Melee's CSS is uglier than a heroin addicted Tingle so I'm not sure they'd go this route

I agree that removing the names is a possibility. They already did this with the 3DS version.

 

[Burb]

Personally, I feel that the trophy was a backup in case Splatoon totally bombed. That's one case where I think something was added into Smash purely for marketing purposes, as it was probably decided way before Splatoon launched.

I don't think they sat down and decided "Okay, we'll send out a trophy of the Inkling, and if the game succeeds we'll make them DLC". Just strikes me as straw-grasping.

I think there's just no plans whatsoever of making them DLC.

I didn't miss anything, did I?

Not that I can think of.

I probably would've mentioned the line from Sunday's stream about Roy and Lucas that made it sound like they might be the last DLC veterans, but it's the sort of thing that just as easily could mean nothing at all and thus can go unmentioned.

 

[PushDustIn]

Melee's CSS is uglier than a heroin addicted Tingle so I'm not sure they'd go this route

I agree that removing the names is a possibility. They already did this with the 3DS version.

They would have to reprogram the CSS as the CSS writes the names through code (AKA there's no graphic for each of the names).

 

[Chrono.]

I don't care for custom moves but thinking about it now, at least Ryu should've gotten some customs based on the other shotoclones of SF.

 

[TheAnvil]

Can someone post a good quality picture of the screen with all the DLC on?

 

[Champ Gold]

As for the 3DS CSS which was filled, I think they'll shrink the icons again to keep it filled at one page which isn't hard.

I think making a second page for chart would look bad.

I don't think they sat down and decided "Okay, we'll send out a trophy of the Inkling, and if the game succeeds we'll make them DLC". Just strikes me as straw-grasping.

I think there's just no plans whatsoever of making them DLC.



Not that I can think of.

I probably would've mentioned the line from Sunday's stream about Roy and Lucas that made it sound like they might be the last DLC veterans, but it's the sort of thing that just as easily could mean nothing at all and thus can go unmentioned.

I think Wolf might be one extra one but after that, no more vets. And I agree with the Splatoon situation as well. The series got costumes and trophies as of now but I believe that Inklings are gonna be saved for Smash NX than rushing them out now.

 

[Das Koopa]

Can someone post a good quality picture of the screen with all the DLC on?

 

[PushDustIn]

As for the 3DS CSS which was filled, I think they'll shrink the icons again to keep it filled at one page which isn't hard.

I think making a second page for chart would look bad.




I think Wolf might be one extra one but after that, no more vets. And I agree with the Splatoon situation as well. The series got costumes and trophies as of now but I believe that Inklings are gonna be saved for Smash NX than rushing them out now.

It seems like they will have a second page for the 3DS CSS. We found the icons at launch. They never changed them either...that's the final design .

I don't care for custom moves but thinking about it now, at least Ryu should've gotten some customs based on the other shotoclones of SF.

Would have been nice. But custom moves take up too much development time, I guess.

 

[Das Koopa]

Not really. Sakurai already said that Lucas and Roy were "highly requested" veterans. There's been market research, and I'm sure the team/Sakurai knows what characters are being asked for in general.

I think they will announce the last character, and have some time open for the ballot for the next Smash game. I don't think it was exaggerated, it's been said the same exact way as the other ballots. It's just the first time they released it in English, so people got incredibly hyped over it.

The CSS could be downsized, but they they would have to include even more icons in the next update. Every time they decrease the size, the icons get a new folder.

I mean that Sakurai has stated it takes roughly a year or more to develop a single character.

My point there is that I think the ballot actually has some level of impact on who's being included as DLC and that there simply isn't enough time for the development team to create a polished and proper newcomer by the time October rolls around. I expect an announcement of who the winner was in an October direct, but I expect a "This character is still being worked on and will be available by (Christmas, Spring 2016, etc.)"

 

[PushDustIn]

I mean that Sakurai has stated it takes roughly a year or more to develop a single character.

My point there is that I think the ballot actually has some level of impact on who's being included as DLC and that there simply isn't enough time for the development team to create a polished and proper newcomer by the time October rolls around. I expect an announcement of who the winner was in an October direct, but I expect a "This character is still being worked on and will be available by (Christmas, Spring 2016, etc.)"

Where did you get the year quote from? I know they take time, but a year seems a little extreme.

 

[Das Koopa]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ays_to_play_super_smash_bros_for_nintendo_3ds

The process, however, of actually creating a character often takes well over a year, where we are constantly working on the model, the animations, the audio and the balancing. For the game balance we have a testing team playing almost every day and we make adjustments based on their results. I was working from morning to night with my responsibilities as director, so I was only able to spend Wednesday evenings and weekends on the balance.

Normally I would think that a post-release would mean characters come quicker, but it's likely that the development team has shrunken quite a lot as well, meaning it could easily take just as long as before to create characters, especially since they've been working on at least six over the past year whilst having to balance them.

 

[PushDustIn]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ays_to_play_super_smash_bros_for_nintendo_3ds

Normally I would think that a post-release would mean characters come quicker, but it's likely that the development team has shrunken quite a lot as well, meaning it could easily take just as long as before to create characters, especially since they've been working on at least six over the past year whilst having to balance them.

Thanks!

A year sounds a bit extreme, but he is including everything for a character. I know with Brawl, he came up the general move-sets of all the characters within 3-4 months (He used action figures and had 30-60 pictures per "character"), and then after that adjusting the parameters/ animation/ fighting data was a continuous process (Upcoming translation is my source).

The fact that they have been able to complete 4 characters since the game went gold, shows me they aren't taking a year. Also, they dropped custom moves so that might be helping to speed up development time. On average, a character is taking 2 months (if you go by the October US 3DS release date).

There's also the fact that he's doing all of it at once now:

Our team may have shrunk in size, but I’m still just as excited as ever to be pouring my heart and soul into my work every day. Given the different types of content we’re producing, it wouldn’t be surprising for the planning of one item to coincide with the development, balancing, and finalization of several others. We also have version updates, online features, and additional modes to worry about. It can be quite overwhelming, but it’s all about making players happy.

Sakurai Famitsu Column on DLC

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The fact that they have been able to complete 4 characters since the game went gold, shows me they aren't taking a year. Also, they dropped custom moves so that might be helping to speed up development time. On average, a character is taking 2 months (if you go by the October US 3DS release date).

There's also the fact that he's doing all of it at once now:

Sakurai Famitsu Column on DLC

Of the characters reeased only Ryu and Mewtwo aren't clones of any degree and Mewtwo had his Melee moveset to go off of. That may have helped too.

Also I've been seening people saying that Roy is now Top Tier. I don;t know how true that is but what a reversal of fortune, eh Marth?

 

[DMurr]

@ PushDustIn
Way delayed on this conversation -- Is there anything that you have that specifically confirms that Roy was a promotion or advertisement? From my understanding or at least what I remember, Intelligent Systems showed Sakurai their plans for FE6 and he thought Roy represented Fire Emblem well and decided to include him. That could be incorrect or inaccurate information though, alongside the telephone effect leading people to believe in Leif being the planned clone in place of Roy.

 

[Chrono.]

Of the characters reeased only Ryu and Mewtwo aren't clones of any degree and Mewtwo had his Melee moveset to go off of. That may have helped too.

Also I've been seening people saying that Roy is now Top Tier. I don;t know how true that is but what a reversal of fortune, eh Marth?

On top of that Roy is one of the worst lords in his own franchise.

Love the irony.

 

[TheAnvil]

Holy crap you guys my Zero Suit Samus, Dark Pit, Ganondorf and Palutena Amiibo just came from amazon!!! I had no idea they were even out for delivery, they're not due out until Friday. Not my favorite crop of characters but moe Amiibo init!!!

And a Sunday delivery!!!

 

[Champ Gold]

On top of that Roy is one of the worst lords in his own franchise.

Love the irony.

Nope, not by a long shot. Even then most cases, he just gets screwed over by the RNG goddess.

I still find his father more useless than Roy himself. It's just that late promotion just hurts him badly. Eliwood is useless all around and Hector and Lyn outclass him by a mile

 

[PushDustIn]

@ PushDustIn
Way delayed on this conversation -- Is there anything that you have that specifically confirms that Roy was a promotion or advertisement? From my understanding or at least what I remember, Intelligent Systems showed Sakurai their plans for FE6 and he thought Roy represented Fire Emblem well and decided to include him. That could be incorrect or inaccurate information though, alongside the telephone effect leading people to believe in Leif being the planned clone in place of Roy.

Roy's character bio on the Melee website.

The protagonist from Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (GBA) who is a clone character of Marth, joins the battle.

Roy, when compared to Marth, personifies “inexperience but has potential as sword user” and I wanted to add a young character.

He’s puts a lot of show into his actions, but his apparent weak points stand out.

It may look like he has the same moves as Marth, but he swings his sword slower.

At this point in time (January 2002), the game isn’t available for sale.

You can say that this is makes him stand out.Out of all of the characters included in Smash, Roy is the only one that is included before his own game is released.

But don’t worry.

Even if you are unfamiliar with the source game, you will quickly fall in love with the character after seeing his charm.

Since he is the opposite of Marth, Roy’s attacks are stronger near the base of the sword as oppose to the tip. So try getting dangerously close.

Also, his air attack ability has been lowered, and he falls quicker. He’s pretty bad at fighting in the air.

I recently got this from a Japanese user:

Which says that Roy was also picked to help promote Fire Emblem. (It also says Ganondorf's model was taken from the Spaceworld 2000 demo).

 

[TheAnvil]

Back onto a CSS related note I've done some sleuthing and have discovered that the name boxes are exactly 1/4 of the size of the boxes above them. And there are 4 rows of names. And 4 rows of characters.

So what does that mean?

Well. This.

No rescaling any of the icons is necessary. Boxes maintain their current (and perfectly acceptable size). And the screen can easily fit 70 characters. More than we'll ever get in this Smash.

 

[PushDustIn]

By the way, if anyone is interested in Splatoon spoilers...check out NWPlayer's Twitter. They are doing a lot of data-mining, and they are releasing a lot of information about upcoming DLC.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Everyone has seen this guy's stuff right?
Im sure there are plenty of Earthbound fans here anyway.

 

[Spazzy_D]

i meant that as i quoted it
like, it's two words. tri force.

It's a pun. You play as a group of 3 heroes that must work together to vanquish evil. You are literally a "tri force."

What Disney franchise are they making a crossover with?

Without looking anything up, the image seems to be referencing the first two line ups of the Disney Afternoon from the early 90's. So, Chip N' Dales: Rescue Rangers, Duck Tales, Darkwing Duck, Gummi Bears, and Tale Spin.

Character data like that is useful regardless, and it can be used for the next Smash game (whenever they make it). I'm hoping that I'm wrong, and we get a lot more but between the data that's in the games + Sakurai's comments about the stage DLC, I'm not expecting a whole lot.

That's not how the current ballot is being advertised, though.

"Do you want your favorite video-game character to join the battle in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U? Well, here's your chance."

^ straight from the ballot's home page.

If we do not get a new character announced after the ballot has completed people will feel cheated and their will be a back lash. This is not the same situation as the previous ballots in that DLC was not a viable option for any of them, nor were those ballots advertised as being held for the current game.

I would actually hope that once DLC is finished they keep the ballot open for a while and have it focus on "the next Smash game." That would only be fair as there are many characters that are not currently being voted on because they have a current role in the game (such as Ridley, Waluigi, Takamaru, and Tingle.) This is once again mainly due to the fact that people are under the assumption that this poll is exclusively for Smash Wii U/3DS. (Which they should be, as that's how Nintendo has promoted it.)

I don't care for custom moves but thinking about it now, at least Ryu should've gotten some customs based on the other shotoclones of SF.

If Snake ever comes back, I want him to have Simon Belmont's Holy Water and Bomberman's Bomb as his custom neutral specials.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubted it but I had to look it up. ...Surprisingly it did at some point, but not the kind of game you would expect.

"Virtua Quest, a simplified role-playing video game (which was also known as Virtua Fighter RPG) with new characters aimed at the children's market, was released for the Nintendo GameCube in 2004 and the PlayStation 2 in 2005. The Virtua Fighters had their incarnations from Virtua Fighter 4."

From the Wikipedia



With that said, they would still put the costumes in regardless of that game's existence since it seems to be more geared towards Sega's history.

Also, the Genesis/Mega Drive version of Virtua Fighter 2 is on the Wii's Virtual Console in Japan and North America.

 

[DMurr]

Roy's character bio on the Melee website.


I recently got this from a Japanese user:
View attachment 57852
Which says that Roy was also picked to help promote Fire Emblem. (It also says Ganondorf's model was taken from the Spaceworld 2000 demo).

So... Kind of. He's "promoting Fire Emblem"? Could Marth count as the same thing, though? I'm not sure what the intention with that statement is. He doesn't say it about Roy in his website bio, but both Marth and Roy could be promoting Fire Emblem in the sense that they're exposing audiences to the series. I know they were considered to be removed from the non-Japanese releases, but the time of writing for that note could've been after they decided not to.

He totally could be, and that's cool. I'm just curious as to Sakurai's opinion on the matter. It's not really relevant at this point.

 

[Burb]

Back onto a CSS related note I've done some sleuthing and have discovered that the name boxes are exactly 1/4 of the size of the boxes above them. And there are 4 rows of names. And 4 rows of characters.

So what does that mean?

Well. This.

No rescaling any of the icons is necessary. Boxes maintain their current (and perfectly acceptable size). And the screen can easily fit 70 characters. More than we'll ever get in this Smash.

Interesting, and it could work.....

However, if they were gonna remove the tags, I think they would've done it before launch like they did with the 3DS version's tags. I just think they're there to stay.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

@ PushDustIn

Did you ever look up Sakurai's comments about Ultra Editions of Smash Brothers like you said?

This is your reminder, homeslice.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Interesting, and it could work.....

However, if they were gonna remove the tags, I think they would've done it before launch like they did with the 3DS version's tags. I just think they're there to stay.

Keep in mind that the name tags were on the 3DS version as well for the Best Buy demos after last year's E3, so there is at least a bit of precedence. It could have been designed this way strictly as a precautionary measure.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah I mentioned that a few days ago too by removing the name tags, there would be about enough space for a fifth row would they wish to add one at some point.

Brawl apparently had it so that the name tags and character slots where separate from each other (If I recall correctly) I wonder if it's the same for Smash Bros for Wii U.....

 

[Substitution]

So... Kind of. He's "promoting Fire Emblem"? Could Marth count as the same thing, though? I'm not sure what the intention with that statement is. He doesn't say it about Roy in his website bio, but both Marth and Roy could be promoting Fire Emblem in the sense that they're exposing audiences to the series. I know they were considered to be removed from the non-Japanese releases, but the time of writing for that note could've been after they decided not to.

He totally could be, and that's cool. I'm just curious as to Sakurai's opinion on the matter. It's not really relevant at this point.

If I recall correctly, wasn't Roy's game coming out a few months after Melee?
That could be what he's referring to.

 

[Burb]

Keep in mind that the name tags were on the 3DS version as well for the Best Buy demos after last year's E3, so there is at least a bit of precedence. It could have been designed this way strictly as a precautionary measure.

That's my point.

The 3DS name tags were removed before release. They were part of an earlier version of the CSS (Some character portrait backgrounds changed in color, too).

The Wii U launched with them still there. Removing them after release and removing them before release are completely different things.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I wouldnt be so sure. We've been given a few surprising movesets before.

How can you make it work then? He's known for staying in his ball in his games, there's not much of an interesting gameplay style you can create from that. It would require creative liberty to make him work, which I don't think is worth doing over other potential SEGA characters.

 

[Burb]

How can you make it work then? He's known for staying in his ball in his games, there's not much of an interesting gameplay style you can create from that. It would require creative liberty to make him work, which I don't think is worth doing over other potential SEGA characters.

They managed to put a character who fights in a flying machine in Smash. I think if they really wanted to put AiAi in and keep him in his ball, they'd find a way to do it. I don't know how it would work, but at the same time, I didn't know how Bowser Jr in the Clown Car would work, either.

Not that I think AiAi has any sort of chance, mind you. I actually think Sega would (and should, honestly) go for a second Sonic rep than someone from one of their other series. Preferably Tails.

 

[Substitution]

How can you make it work then? He's known for staying in his ball in his games, there's not much of an interesting gameplay style you can create from that. It would require creative liberty to make him work, which I don't think is worth doing over other potential SEGA characters.

He runs into opponents really, really hard.

 

[Soul.]

I thought the names on the 3DS CSS were removed because, well, the bottom screen exists for that.
I could be wrong.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The Koopa Clown Car had a history of being a weapon before hand though.

AiAi's ball? Eh. Not so much.

He's truly the defintion of limited move set potential IMO.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I thought the names on the 3DS CSS were removed because, well, the bottom screen exists for that.
I could be wrong.

There's actually less shown on the bottom screen of the 3DS than there is on the bottom half of the Wii U CSS.

 

[Burb]

I thought the names on the 3DS CSS were removed because, well, the bottom screen exists for that.
I could be wrong.

If that were the case, they would've removed the tags from the Wii U version, too, since we can see the names at the bottom of the screen.

 

[Deleted member]

It seems like they will have a second page for the 3DS CSS. We found the icons at launch. They never changed them either...that's the final design .

It seems odd to me that they'd go for the "page 2" now instead of doing it when Mewtwo was released or at the very least when Lucas/Roy/Ryu were.

Because now DLC characters would be split from the "main" screen to the "extras" screen as opposed to all DLC being on the "extras" screen like with stages, and in order to put the page arrow on the "main" screen, that would mean we would either forgo the Random button on the "main" screen or move Ryu or the Miis into the "extras" screen.

And it may be just me, but I'm having a hard time imagining how using the page button would work on the CSS, considering selecting a character on the CSS works different from selecting a stage on the SSS.