Social NintenZone Social 6.0 - L'Arachel Edition, Apparently?

[Mythra]

Now I get why The Mower Of Land said auto-battle was the way to go in TT :'V

 

[Opossum]

Just got to 5000 points in the Tempest, which was my goal. Might do more later but at least now I'm on pace to finish them. Having a unit you actually invested in as a bonus unit is a blessing.

 

[Chrono.]

2 Keflas, 2 Jirens, 2 AGFriezas.

Still no UI Goku.

 

[Fenriraga]

Accurate.

 

[Deleted member]

> Massive, unrestricted movement
> Usually high Res to bait out enemy mages
> Access to Javelins and/or Hand Axes due to having the better parts of the weapon triangle
> Folks like Caeda, Palla, Sumia, Catria, Minerva, Cormag, Camilla, Jill, and Haar being regarded as some of the best units in their games
> "Fliers are bad."

Okay buddy.

Unrestricted movement at the cost of an universal weakness to bows is a terrible tradeoff because archers are everywhere. They become a liability whenever an Archer is present.
High Res(which is a Pegasus trait, not shared with Wyverns) is pointless when they can't counterattack and Javelins don't help because they're unusable by literally any Pegasus in games with Con unless you want negative Spd because they have the low ends of it.

Caeda, Minerva, Palla, Catria, Dean, Miledy, Cormag, Jill, Haar, and Camilla would like to share some choice words with you.

You're looking at individual units, not the class itself.
I can't speak for all of them but, yes, Cormag is good, but not because he flies, but because he's Raven with a lance.

As a Class, Pegasus Riders are made of paper, hit like wet noodles, can't lift anything heavier than a Slim Lance and have a weakness to one of the most common enemy types.
Wyverns have it slightly better due to high Def, Atk and Con by paying with low Spd and Res but they still suffer from their Bow weakness.

Also, no, Miledy is a terrible unit and so is every Flier in FE6. The only good Fliers from GBA and 3DS are Camilla and Cormag and that's despite them being fliers and not because of it

 

[Opossum]

Unrestricted movement at the cost of an universal weakness to bows is a terrible tradeoff because archers are everywhere. They become a liability whenever an Archer is present.
High Res(which is a Pegasus trait, not shared with Wyverns) is pointless when they can't counterattack and Javelins don't help because they're unusable by literally any Pegasus in games with Con unless you want negative Spd because they have the low ends of it.

You're looking at individual units, not the class itself.
I can't speak for all of them but, yes, Cormag is good, but not because he flies, but because he's Raven with a lance.

As a Class, Pegasus Riders are made of paper, hit like wet noodles, can't lift anything heavier than a Slim Lance and have a weakness to one of the most common enemy types.
Wyverns have it slightly better due to high Def, Atk and Con by paying with low Spd and Res but they still suffer from their Bow weakness.

Also, no, Miledy is a terrible unit and so is every Flier in FE6. The only good Fliers from GBA and 3DS are Camilla and Cormag and that's despite them being fliers and not because of it

You make it sound like avoiding bows is at all difficult. By that logic cavalry sucks because of things like Ridersbane/Beastkiller/Poleaxe/Zanbato etc.

Movement is the single best stat in the game. It's the reason most knights and Generals are pretty bad unless the game is tailored to them. By having massive unrestricted movement, fliers become incredibly versatile.

Honestly Mekkah's Pitfall video on Shanna covers a lot of what you're saying. But if you don't have the time for that look at almost any tier list for a Fire Emblem game and notice that there's always at least one flier at or near the top.

But then again you're implying Palla and Catria are bad in SoV despite them being literally the best units in the game alongside Saber so I don't even know what's up.

 

[praline]

Man I am already starting to become a whale to get Kale!

 

[Ivander]

Oh, speaking of FE and F/GO, if you want to rip on Chinese knockoffs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblem...mber_the_presentation_on_feh_ripoff_the_game/

Basically, FEH Gameplay with F/GO story and background, but every historical character is female instead of some of them.

 

[praline]

Chrono. I just got UI Goku.

 

[Pazzo.]

Phone finally broke, $200 for a new one...

I ain't even mad.

 

[Arcanir]

You're looking at individual units, not the class itself.
I can't speak for all of them but, yes, Cormag is good, but not because he flies, but because he's Raven with a lance.

Part of the reason those characters are good is because of the class. If units like Jill, Haar, and Camilla couldn't fly, a lot of their usefulness as units would've been gone since then they wouldn't have access to things like high mobility or Canto. Cormag is great for the same reason, great stats on a mount are going to carry you far.

As a Class, Pegasus Riders are made of paper, hit like wet noodles, can't lift anything heavier than a Slim Lance and have a weakness to one of the most common enemy types.

​

Wyverns have it slightly better due to high Def, Atk and Con by paying with low Spd and Res but they still suffer from their Bow weakness.

You're greatly overplaying their weaknesses quite frankly.

Yes Pegasus Knights aren't great bulk-wise, but that doesn't change the fact that A) their movement allows them extreme flexibility in getting in and out of situations, transporting units to and from areas, and being good units to deal with mages at the very least, fly in and attack stronger enemies at their best. Also, the Con/Strength issue is something the majority of units (and enemies as well) have to deal with, so that's not exclusive to Pegasus Knights and even then the fact that they have high speeds means they can usually eat the SPD loss and still double enemies.

Bow Weakness is also not nearly that much of bane as it's like avoiding the weaknesses of your other units. If you're not putting a mage in front of a swordmaster or knight or throw your Paladin in front of a Horseslayer, then you're not going to throw a Wyvern in front of a Sniper. Even ignoring that, things like Iote's Shield exists, which nullifies that weakness at a cost of a skill/item slot if you're that worried about it, and Wyverns have the defense to take a couple hits in a worse case scenario.

Also, no, Miledy is a terrible unit and so is every Flier in FE6. The only good Fliers from GBA and 3DS are Camilla and Cormag and that's despite them being fliers and not because of it

Miledy comes in with 38/16 physical bulk, 17 Atk, and 13 Spd on HM as an unpromoted unit on HM, the only character who joins with better all around stats around that time is Percival, whose promoted. Tie those stats to someone who has flight utility and you have a unit that can tank, hit effectively, and avoid doubling/double herself on her join chapter and gets better from there thanks to great growths in HP, Strength, and SPD, I don't see how she's a terrible unit with all of those traits tied to her.

I also think you're heavily underrating the other GBA/3DS fliers in that same regard. ​

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I hope this new FE game on switch has another male Pegasus knight

 

[Erureido]

Accurate.

I was just about to post that. This video is too funny.

The jab they make at the Camus archetypes was my favorite part!

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

This was on a video about Hawaiis volcano going off rn and I instantly thought of the meme "Jet fuel cant melt steel beams" and laughed but then I remebered the geothermal power plant has lava going toword it and instantly frowned. Not only that but lava hitting the ocean is making hydrocloric acid

 

[Z25]

Accurate.

I was just about to post this haha. It is pretty good though, and accurate.

 

[Mythra]

Chrono. I just got UI Goku.

This reminded me when I convinced a friend to play FEH and he almost immediately pulled Ares.

 

[Deleted member]

You make it sound like avoiding bows is at all difficult. By that logic cavalry sucks because of things like Ridersbane/Beastkiller/Poleaxe/Zanbato etc.

Except those weapons are only one specific type out of their entire arsenal. Not every lance user has eff. damage against Cavalry, but every Archer has eff. damage against fliers.
Additionally, those weapons usually have low hit rate and high Con, which makes it easier to deal with them when compared to high hit rate Bows.

Movement is the single best stat in the game. It's the reason most knights and Generals are pretty bad unless the game is tailored to them. By having massive unrestricted movement, fliers become incredibly versatile

No, it really isn't. Movement is a great stat but it doesn't trump over actual battle stats. What's the point of high Mov if you can't take a hit or kill anything by yourself?

Honestly Mekkah's Pitfall video on Shanna covers a lot of what you're saying. But if you don't have the time for that look at almost any tier list for a Fire Emblem game and notice that there's always at least one flier at or near the top.

I really don't care for tier lists, especially when those have clear biases to specific play styles.

But then again you're implying Palla and Catria are bad in SoV despite them being literally the best units in the game alongside Saber so I don't even know what's up.

They come with such low enough Str that there's no point in using them. And it's a game where Archers have 5 Rng, them trying to go in the frontlines is suicide.

Part of the reason those characters are good is because of the class. If units like Jill, Haar, and Camilla couldn't fly, a lot of their usefulness as units would've been gone since then they wouldn't have access to things like high mobility or Canto. Cormag is great for the same reason, great stats on a mount are going to carry you far.

I can guarantee you they would still be good without them. I've already show evidence, actually: Raven. Both him and Cormag have the exact same growths. Curiously emough, Cormag doesn't have fame for being ridiculously broken.

You're greatly overplaying their weaknesses quite frankly.

Yes Pegasus Knights aren't great bulk-wise, but that doesn't change the fact that A) their movement allows them extreme flexibility in getting in and out of situations, transporting units to and from areas, and being good units to deal with mages at the very least, fly in and attack stronger enemies at their best. Also, the Con/Strength issue is something the majority of units (and enemies as well) have to deal with, so that's not exclusive to Pegasus Knights and even then the fact that they have high speeds means they can usually eat the SPD loss and still double enemies.

You do realize they can't move after they attack right? Even assuming they do kill something, probably an Archer, they're gonna be surrounded by enemies, far away from the rest of your units, with such low defenses that all you can do is pray to RNG.

Bow Weakness is also not nearly that much of bane as it's like avoiding the weaknesses of your other units. If you're not putting a mage in front of a swordmaster or knight or throw your Paladin in front of a Horseslayer, then you're not going to throw a Wyvern in front of a Sniper. Even ignoring that, things like Iote's Shield exists, which nullifies that weakness at a cost of a skill/item slot if you're that worried about it, and Wyverns have the defense to take a couple hits in a worse case scenario.

It's an inherent weakness, Cavalry don't take triple damage from every lance they see and neither do Mages from Swordmasters.
And even if you do manage tobget the first strike on an Archer, your flier still has to deal with other units on EP.

Also, Flier Shields are late game items, take one weapon slot and can only be used by one unit. They don't suddenly erase all the difficulty from using one and their defenses continue to be paperthin.

Miledy comes in with 38/16 physical bulk, 17 Atk, and 13 Spd on HM as an unpromoted unit on HM, the only character who joins with better all around stats around that time is Percival, whose promoted. Tie those stats to someone who has flight utility and you have a unit that can tank, hit effectively, and avoid doubling/double herself on her join chapter and gets better from there thanks to great growths in HP, Strength, and SPD, I don't see how she's a terrible unit with all of those traits tied to her.

She's joining with 13 Spd on Ch13, you're really trying to sell that as a positive?
Her Str is also not enough to do anything in her join chapter, even if she gets instant promote.


Also, as far as "unrestricted movement" goes, it's useless at least half of the time.
Conquest leaves no room for units to fly forward by themselves and Awakening is at least 60% open field maps. GBA games have Con and that kills any possibility for them to deal damage and most maps favor EP play rather than PP one.

 

[Deleted member]

NintenZone's social dans une coquille de noix:

 

[Mythra]

NintenZone's social dans une coquille de noix:

Change all the Veronicas for Fjorm's Hentai face for better accuracy :V

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Got 100 sacred coins in FEH, Galeforce Minerva is now complete.

Also, no, Miledy is a terrible unit

wat

 

[praline]

This reminded me when I convinced a friend to play FEH and he almost immediately pulled Ares.

Too bad I want Kale and that’s 5e only one I haven’t gotten from the ToP banner. :/

 

[Ura]

NintenZone's social dans une coquille de noix:

Welcome to my world.

 

[Knight Dude]

Found another cool DBFZ thing.

This is the fastest round of DBFZ ever pic.twitter.com/NGFmeKrr7R

— Xiei @ ??? (@XiePlus) May 25, 2018

 

[praline]

Well I regret spending so much money for Kale.

I wish i could snipe for orange units.

 

[Arcanir]

You do realize they can't move after they attack right?

Genealogy, Thracia, and the Tellius duology have Canto after attacking, it also works with Rescue and (IIRC) trading in the GBA games.

Even assuming they do kill something, probably an Archer, they're gonna be surrounded by enemies, far away from the rest of your units, with such low defenses that all you can do is pray to RNG.

And why would you throw them into that position in the first place? You can say the same thing about Cavaliers, they can go far ahead, but you still have to be strategic with them.

It's an inherent weakness, Cavalry don't take triple damage from every lance they see and neither do Mages from Swordmasters.

Swordmasters and every other physical unit is going to be common enough that you can't just throw a mage into battle and expect them to live if they're surrounded, that's the point. They're typically squishy enough that it might as well be an inherent weakness of the class, and thus something you have to play around when planning out you next move.

Same with Horseslayers, they may be less common, but that doesn't change the fact they exist.

And even if you do manage tobget the first strike on an Archer, your flier still has to deal with other units on EP.

Like everyone else. You have to play to their strengths, if you throw them any which way, they will die.

Also, Flier Shields are late game items, take one weapon slot and can only be used by one unit. They don't suddenly erase all the difficulty from using one and their defenses continue to be paperthin.

Note that this point was in response to your point on Wyverns, whose defenses aren't paperthin, and it still doesn't change the fact that it does exists as an option for them and Pegasus Knights if you need it. You don't have to put it on, but if you need something tanky like a wyvern to lure a couple archers, it's there.

She's joining with 13 Spd on Ch13, you're really trying to sell that as a positive?

The Enemy AS for almost every enemy in her join chapter is less then 13, remember that their base speed either isn't that high to begin with, or Con exists and it's nerfed. She's not getting doubled and in some cases is doing the doubling.

Don't look at stats in a vacuum, look at the unit relative to everyone joining around them and the time they join, that's why I made that description about how she stacks up relative to other units and how she does in the chapter proper.

Her Str is also not enough to do anything in her join chapter, even if she gets instant promote.

That's not only untrue, but also ignores the fact that she gets +2 to every stat aside from HP (+5) and Con (+1), that means she has 43/18 physical bulk, 19 ATK, and 15 SPD from the get-go. Note, the highest ATK an enemy has ignoring the boss in that chapter is 30 (and not all the time), with the rest generally being around 22. That means she's taking 12 damage from three units at best (who are not in the same group, so she's not getting dogpiled) and around 4 for the rest. SPD-wise, the highest AS is around 15 on about three units, the rest hover around 8 AS. That means at best she's doubling a good chunk of enemies and not getting doubled by anyone else. ATK-wise, assuming she's using her Steel Lance, she's hitting the bulkiest unit (about 13 Def for a few) for 19 damage per hit, that's around 2HKOing them when most units are struggling to even get that much.

So I'll repeat, in what way is she bad? Especially if she instant promotes?

Also, as far as "unrestricted movement" goes, it's useless at least half of the time.

Being able to get to villages, fly to take down potentially troublesome enemies, rescue/drop, and other such thing are not traits that I would think are only useful half the time.

Conquest leaves no room for units to fly forward by themselves and Awakening is at least 60% open field maps. GBA games have Con and that kills any possibility for them to deal damage and most maps favor EP play rather than PP one.

Chapters like 10 and 24 can actually be beaten in a short amount of time with flight and proper positioning, and others like 14 benefit from having units that can fly around and not deal with the restricted paths, so I heavily disagree with you on Conquest. Con is an issue almost everyone has, so I'm not sure why only fliers are the ones held back by it, and being able to fly into the positions you need them in is important for dealing with both PP and EP.

Again, you're overselling their weaknesses while ignoring their strengths, just because bows and CON exist doesn't mean their many perks don't. Like with any unit, it's all about playing to their strengths to beat the chapter in the most efficient way you can, and if you just look at the weaknesses then you're bound to ignore some great units as a result.

 

[Aurane]

I have decided that Decidueye is my new Pokken main.

And Young Link is still a groovy baby.

 

[ChikoLad]

Got 100 sacred coins in FEH, Galeforce Minerva is now complete.


wat

That's an interesting Minerva, I'm tempted to try it out myself.

My one uses a Desperation B-Slot/Brash Assault Sacred Seal build with Moonbow so she can double everything and always activate Moonbow whenever she attacks.

-------

As the resident Flier afficianado, Fliers are definitely a lot better in FEH than the main games, but you could argue the same for Armours and Cavalry who also have crippling weaknesses that can be abolished in FEH.

It says something that I neglected my Clair at the beginning of SoV, yet still managed to make her one of my best units without grinding by the end of the game.

And I didn't even give her Rhomphaia.

 

[praline]

I have decided that Decidueye is my new Pokken main.

And Young Link is still a groovy baby.

You finally got a Switch? What’s your friend code?

 

[AreJay25]

Oh hey, I did a thing today.

Being the super rich guy that I totally am (please do not contact my bank), I decided to casually drop $380 on a Nintendo Switch and Mario Odyssey.

Yes, that is indeed the thing that I do. Please do not contact my bank.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Here´s a personal question:

What are ya'lls goals in life? What do you all strife for? What's the main reason you wake up everyday?

I strife for Cloud.

But seriously speaking, my dream in life has always been to be a game developer. Ever since I first played Pac-Man some 20 odd years ago, I knew I wanted to make these magical things you could control. Never got anywhere with my dreams because coding and programming are completely beyond me, best I ever did was write up and draw concepts. Until last year, I finally found a set of tutorials and dug deep inside for determination, and I made a working prototype. Been hitting a lot of roadblocks and my game is on indefinite hiatus for the foreseeable future, but I'm still hoping I can finish it someday. I might never be a game dev proper, but if I can at least finish one game in my life, I feel like I'll finally do little me proud after all these years.

Other than that, I never really had a reason to wake up, I just do so out of obligation. People can't just let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Chrono.]

Chrono. I just got UI Goku.

You are a bad person.

 

[ChikoLad]

me_irl

pic.twitter.com/gBLzDjEQ0W

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) May 25, 2018

 

[Wario Bros.]

Playing the ARMS' Party Crash mode is reminding me I still have to wait until January for that graphic novel.

 

[Aurane]

You finally got a Switch? What’s your friend code?

Yup. I got it yesterday. Traded my Xbox One with my friend and got a Switch and two games- Hyrule Warriors and Pokken.

As for the FC- no internet. :V

 

[praline]

You are a bad person.

Technically I got 2.

Yup. I got it yesterday. Traded my Xbox One with my friend and got a Switch and two games- Hyrule Warriors and Pokken.

As for the FC- no internet. :V

Well congrats! Whenever you get it let me know!

 

[Wario Bros.]

If anyone wants to add to me to their Switch friend list, feel free to hit me with a request.


<--- code is below my avi

Just make sure I have a way of knowing who you are when I see the request.

 

[Deleted member]

EDIT: Summoning @Aetheri @Apollo Justice @END. @Malos @mario123007 Mythra @PLATINUM7 @Xeno VII and @Zeb~ because in no bloody way I'll let it unnoticed:

At long last...

Spoiler: XC2 playthrough update

I FINALLY GOT THEM ALL J(NJTKFJRHHDGLTOYDJFKYI^DKYFK*ZAJZTFLUIKRFLGOºDKYFºTI^K^FJ*E#AY#KLGGLUGMP+YºGTS #XenobladeChronicles2 #NintendoSwitch pic.twitter.com/LxIFL8pu3J

— Pre-order Metroid Prime 4: Beyond (@FinalSmashGamer) May 25, 2018

 

[Chrono.]

Technically I got 2.

Technically? You got the yellow one?

 

[Fenriraga]

audio mods have come so far pic.twitter.com/jHFmLaqn03

— HB | Captain L (@captainlsheikah) May 25, 2018

I'm done.

 

[Deleted member]

Genealogy, Thracia, and the Tellius duology have Canto after attacking

I'm talking specifically about GBA and 3DS, which are the games I've played.

it also works with Rescue and (IIRC) trading in the GBA games.

Doesn't work with Trade in GBA, only if they use an item after doing so.

And why would you throw them into that position in the first place? You can say the same thing about Cavaliers, they can go far ahead, but you still have to be strategic with them.

Then what's the point of high Mov? Cavalries have more than enough Def to handle those enemies

Swordmasters and every other physical unit is going to be common enough that you can't just throw a mage into battle and expect them to live if they're surrounded,

You must be using Mages wrong because every Mage worth their momey can just dodge tank those.

They're typically squishy enough that it might as well be an inherent weakness of the class, and thus something you have to play around when planning out you next move.

It's a statistical weakness, which can be covered with other stats or have them focus on other jobs. It's not a mechanical weakness that makes them receive triple damage that doesn't go away unless you have a specific item.

Same with Horseslayers, they may be less common, but that doesn't change the fact they exist.

And your point is? It IS uncommon enough that 99% of the time, your Cavalry unit will win, while 100% of the time, a Flier will get OHKO'd

Like everyone else. You have to play to their strengths, if you throw them any which way, they will die.

What are their strengths then? Village and rescue bots and that's it. High Res is pointless because they can't counter Mages unless they kill their Spd. High Spd is pointless because they either have to kill it to deal damage or can't deal damage to be able to dodge.

The Enemy AS for almost every enemy in her join chapter is less then 13, remember that their base speed either isn't that high to begin with, or Con exists and it's nerfed. She's not getting doubled and in some cases is doing the doubling.

She's still not doubling anyone which, by that point, everyone but Lilina should be able to do so.

Don't look at stats in a vacuum, look at the unit relative to everyone joining around them and the time they join, that's why I made that description about how she stacks up relative to other units and how she does in the chapter proper.

I'm not, I compared her to my trained Cavalry units, Lugh, Rutger and Dieck, they all did better than her in anything she did.

That's not only untrue, but also ignores the fact that she gets +2 to every stat aside from HP (+5) and Con (+1), that means she has 43/18 physical bulk, 19 ATK, and 15 SPD from the get-go.

Where are those stats even coming from?

So I'll repeat, in what way is she bad? Especially if she instant promotes?

Atk is low that it can, at most, deal only half of the enemies' HP in her joining chapter, she has no Spd to be able to double anything and her defensive stats are not enough for her to tank the bridges, especially with Archers around.

Being able to get to villages, fly to take down potentially troublesome enemies, rescue/drop, and other such thing are not traits that I would think are only useful half the time.

Villages are specific cases and they're incredibly vulnerable when trying to visit them and most certainly not a trait that redeems all their faults.
Ferrying is great and all, but hardly a reason to field an unit in place of a better one or just, like, a staff bot

Chapters like 10 and 24 can actually be beaten in a short amount of time with flight and proper positioning, and others like 14 benefit from having units that can fly around and not deal with the restricted paths, so I heavily disagree with you on Conquest. Con is an issue almost everyone has, so I'm not sure why only fliers are the ones held back by it, and being able to fly into the positions you need them in is important for dealing with both PP and EP.

You mentioned two chapters out of Conquest's, what, 22? Most chapters have flat ground with the exceptions not helping Camilla or Beruka(the two fliers you get) in the slightest, and Archers are 100% a bigger threat than in any other game because they have Axe levels of Mt with the same great hit% they've always had.
Also, the whole gimmick of Ch24 revolves around NOT letting Fliers move as otherwise they get the jump on you and you literally can't finish Ch10 earlier.

Fliers have the lowest Con with their Pegasus Knights, only Mages have as low of a Con but they're not competing with other magic users so that's just something you have to deal with it.
With Pegasus, a Cavalry unit can do what they do with a lance much better.

Again, you're overselling their weaknesses while ignoring their strengths, just because bows and CON exist doesn't mean their many perks don't. Like with any unit, it's all about playing to their strengths to beat the chapter in the most efficient way you can, and if you just look at the weaknesses then you're bound to ignore some great units as a result.

Their strengths aren't good enough to excuse using them for being fliers. At most, you'll ever use one Flier for ferrying and village purposes, but they'll rarely accomplish anything in combat. Fliers who are actually useful outside of movement utility are good because of their outstanding stats that are more than worth to deal with the Archer weakness(and units like Cormag come right before you get the Wing Shield).