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Personal Highlight of the Mini Direct?

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Yomi's Biggest Fan

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@ManlySpirit

Just wondering, do you stand to gain something if the Switch ultimately fails? I'm not saying it to attack you.
I would personally stand to gain if Nintendo went 3rd party like Sega, so I haven't been bothering to defend them. Is there a similar reason for you?
At this point, I really would much prefer they go 3rd party, as unlike Sega, they'd be leaving in a much better position, and could do much better off becoming a major publisher a la Capcom. Plus, for 5 generations in a row, Nintendo has shown they know **** all about making decent hardware (the WiiU and Switch BOTH come without an Ethernet port ffs. 2017, where online gaming is a standard for THREE generations now, and they don't include a friggin built in ethernet port ffs). I think they would ultimately do a lot better making their games for other platforms, as hell, they'd be FORCED to compete with other devs and publishers for attention and thus, we might see more mature games like Metroid, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, etc... get some love again. I think Nintendo are great devs, and I love their games, but I really dislike the company as a whole for a variety of reasons now.

And, it's not so much that I WANT the Switch to fail, so much as I don't see it NOT failing. All trends stand against it. As a home console, it doesn't stand a chance, and as a portable, it's latching onto a dying market, thus, it can't outperform the 3DS. Like many, I WANT Nintendo to be successful, as I remember the days when they were top dog, and would love to see that old Nintendo return (as even their games were better then), but looking at this, I can only express not disappointment, I as I wasn't even hyped by the "NX" to begin with, but rather frustration at their poor decision-making.

That's why I seem so negative, because I'm just frustrated. If I genuinely didn't care, or wanted to see them fail, I wouldn't even bother to discuss the matter.
 

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we might see more mature games like Metroid, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, etc..
Pretty sure we'll get Metroid very soon.

And F-Zero and Eternal Darkness would be in the same spot, trust me.
 

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At this point, I really would much prefer they go 3rd party, as unlike Sega, they'd be leaving in a much better position, and could do much better off becoming a major publisher a la Capcom. Plus, for 5 generations in a row, Nintendo has shown they know **** all about making decent hardware (the WiiU and Switch BOTH come without an Ethernet port ffs. 2017, where online gaming is a standard for THREE generations now, and they don't include a friggin built in ethernet port ffs). I think they would ultimately do a lot better making their games for other platforms, as hell, they'd be FORCED to compete with other devs and publishers for attention and thus, we might see more mature games like Metroid, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, etc... get some love again. I think Nintendo are great devs, and I love their games, but I really dislike the company as a whole for a variety of reasons now.

And, it's not so much that I WANT the Switch to fail, so much as I don't see it NOT failing. All trends stand against it. As a home console, it doesn't stand a chance, and as a portable, it's latching onto a dying market, thus, it can't outperform the 3DS. Like many, I WANT Nintendo to be successful, as I remember the days when they were top dog, and would love to see that old Nintendo return (as even their games were better then), but looking at this, I can only express not disappointment, I as I wasn't even hyped by the "NX" to begin with, but rather frustration at their poor decision-making.

That's why I seem so negative, because I'm just frustrated. If I genuinely didn't care, or wanted to see them fail, I wouldn't even bother to discuss the matter.
That's just the thing though.

If Nintendo went third party, do you really think they'd devote their, I imagine, much more limited resources to an incredibly niche game like F-Zero or Eternal Darkness? I don't, not when they have bigger IP like Super Mario or The Legend of Zelda they would likely focus more of their resources on. Metroid I can see getting a boost from it, but not something like F-Zero.
 

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With the For Honor beta, I can find out if it will even work on my laptop. I'm so excited!!!

Even if it works I'll have to limit my playtime so it doesnt overheat which it will otherwise but at least it will work.
 

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People who use Advice Animals have no right calling Harambe an outdated meme. :p
 

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At this point, I really would much prefer they go 3rd party, as unlike Sega, they'd be leaving in a much better position, and could do much better off becoming a major publisher a la Capcom. Plus, for 5 generations in a row, Nintendo has shown they know **** all about making decent hardware (the WiiU and Switch BOTH come without an Ethernet port ffs. 2017, where online gaming is a standard for THREE generations now, and they don't include a friggin built in ethernet port ffs). I think they would ultimately do a lot better making their games for other platforms, as hell, they'd be FORCED to compete with other devs and publishers for attention and thus, we might see more mature games like Metroid, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, etc... get some love again. I think Nintendo are great devs, and I love their games, but I really dislike the company as a whole for a variety of reasons now.

And, it's not so much that I WANT the Switch to fail, so much as I don't see it NOT failing. All trends stand against it. As a home console, it doesn't stand a chance, and as a portable, it's latching onto a dying market, thus, it can't outperform the 3DS. Like many, I WANT Nintendo to be successful, as I remember the days when they were top dog, and would love to see that old Nintendo return (as even their games were better then), but looking at this, I can only express not disappointment, I as I wasn't even hyped by the "NX" to begin with, but rather frustration at their poor decision-making.

That's why I seem so negative, because I'm just frustrated. If I genuinely didn't care, or wanted to see them fail, I wouldn't even bother to discuss the matter.
I'm not so sure about Nintendo about supporting minor franchises if they go 3rd party. At least not until they've established themselves safely. But I see your point.

I'd advise against banking too much on trends though. They can be unreliable.
 
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That's just the thing though.

If Nintendo went third party, do you really think they'd devote their, I imagine, much more limited resources to an incredibly niche game like F-Zero or Eternal Darkness? I don't, not when they have bigger IP like Super Mario or The Legend of Zelda they would likely focus more of their resources on. Metroid I can see getting a boost from it, but not something like F-Zero.
How would their resources be more limited though?

A lot of those resources go into the R&D and Marketing of hardware, if they dropped that half, they'd have more resources to spare in fact.

Second, the giants of the industry aren't Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft... It's EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Square Enix, and Capcom. iirc, EA and Activision bring in more money than Nintendo, Sony and M$ (gaming divisions for those last two) do combined.
 

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That's just the thing though.

If Nintendo went third party, do you really think they'd devote their, I imagine, much more limited resources to an incredibly niche game like F-Zero or Eternal Darkness? I don't, not when they have bigger IP like Super Mario or The Legend of Zelda they would likely focus more of their resources on. Metroid I can see getting a boost from it, but not something like F-Zero.
Indeed.

Remember when Sega went from having several sucessful IPs to basically just Sonic and Football Manager?
 

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How would their resources be more limited though?

A lot of those resources go into the R&D and Marketing of hardware, if they dropped that half, they'd have more resources to spare in fact.

Second, the giants of the industry aren't Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft... It's EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Square Enix, and Capcom. iirc, EA and Activision bring in more money than Nintendo, Sony and M$ (gaming divisions for those last two) do combined.
Well I mean...they'd no longer have hardware sales to bolster their money. I'd imagine that'd impact them a bit, and because of that, I think they'd be less likely to invest in their less proven/more obscure franchises like F-Zero.
 

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People who use Advice Animals have no right calling Harambe an outdated meme. :p
Advice Animals?

That's just the thing though.

If Nintendo went third party, do you really think they'd devote their, I imagine, much more limited resources to an incredibly niche game like F-Zero or Eternal Darkness? I don't, not when they have bigger IP like Super Mario or The Legend of Zelda they would likely focus more of their resources on. Metroid I can see getting a boost from it, but not something like F-Zero.
Imagine an all PC future.

That would be an interesting, yet scary thought.

I need to get me a gaming PC one day.
 

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Indeed.

Remember when Sega went from having several sucessful IPs to basically just Sonic and Football Manager?
To be fair though, I imagine Nintendo, if they ever went third party, would be in a better situation than Sega was.
 
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Honestly, 26 isn't THAT bad on Eliwood Normal, it gets harde on HM and even more on HHM but have you SEEN 26x? I wish I could have skipped it but I needed the Fell Contract for Matthew and all the exp Nino could get
Yeah, I agree. I did 26 on my first attempt. But then again, I didn't have much trouble with 26x either.

And yeah, I should get the game during release. Just so I'm preparred when they do release more characters.(Which they will no doubt.) Then I can finally have my dream team of Cervantes, Excellus, and Oliver. Too bad there's no gheb or batta though, I guess Batre and Dorcas will do. You can't replace Denning though
 

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A bit of a history lesson.

Only reason the NES was able to secure its place in the market and totally dominate the Sega Master System was because it forced 3rd party devs to sign a contract which disallowed them from porting their games onto other consoles. Thus, even though the Master System was more powerful than the NES, NES sold a lot more as it had all the games. And no, not 1st party games, as SEGA had plenty of great 1st party titles in the 3rd gen, but the 3rd party games.

For reference, Master System sold approx 13 million, to the NES's 61 million.

That's how important 3rd party devs are. They are the lifeblood of a console. And the moment Nintendo stopped having their support, was the moment Nintendo stopped being relevant.

The only thing I'm pointing out here is the hype machine surrounding a new console release, and how a lot of the PR talk and speculation is near identical to that of the WiiU, as well as a lot of what's happening as we approach the release of the console.

When the WiiU launched, tons of devs talked it up and down, saying it was easy to develop for, and that it was very powerful, and that "this time, Nintendo has got it, and they promise us tons of unique experiences on their console." Yet, a couple years later, we find that development for WiiU was a mess:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story

And very quickly we saw devs drop out, and even laugh at the idea of having their games on WiiU (Konami with MGR, Saint's Row 4, etc...). We are ALREADY seeing a similar trend with the Switch, they have a MASSIVE line up of games promised, over 80 to release over the course of the year. But, one look at the WiiU launch, and it TOO had a very large line up of games, 3rd party even. In fact, it was more impressive than the Switch, as IT had tons of games that were still relevant, whereas, upon closer inspection on the Switch's lineup, and you'll see tons of indie games, and games that stopped being relevant years ago, Skyrim, Rayman Legends, Cave Story, Binding of Isaac, a PS3 port of FIFA? It's not shaping up very well, and I notice a lot of artificial hype, and people trying to FORCE the success and acceptance of this machine.


However, like you said, the WiiU's failure was mostly due to marketing, not support or power. And you're right. But that's also where Nintendo has blundered the most with the Switch. They're marketing it as a home console, a successor to the WiiU and competitor to the PS4 and Xbone (whether they want to admit it or not), launching it MIDGEN while they other two are at their peak momentum. Not only that, but there's already a lot of confusion surrounding what the Switch is (is it a portable? is it a home console) in regard to the consumer. This is absolute market suicide. Who are you aiming this to? Outside of hard core Nintendo fans, who is gonna go out and buy a Switch when they have better, cheaper, and more powerful options already available? Not only that, but as a portable, the Switch is competing with the 3DS, which has a bigger library, and is much cheaper too. You've got an install base of 13 million WiiU owner, from which, only a fraction will hop over to Switch. And then?
Midgen has literally never even been tried. There's no way to even know for sure if it's market suicide or not, as of now it's just another prediction in the stew.

According to Sean Malstrom, they appear to be marketing the system to lapsed Nintendo fans that like their games but haven't felt a reason to buy a Nintendo system for a while, and considering the number of "I skipped the Wii U and now I'm getting this" and "I haven't gotten a Nintendo system in *X* years and now I'm getting this" posts on certain sites after the initial trailer, he may be on to something. Of course, there's no telling how many of them stayed after they saw the price, but they were at least an interested group when the initial concept was shown and the selection of games seems tailored to beckon more to them than to the hardcore community.

Marketing the system as a handheld brings up exactly the sentiment that you mention later, which is that Nintendo has pulled out of the home console business and that it would be a PR nightmare. Perhaps it's not ideal, but the alternative would involve a backfire Nintendo doesn't want to deal with. Why are you judging them for doing such when you know exactly why?

The Switch will likely be groomed as a 3DS successor. In that case, it's competition with the 3DS will gradually wane. Not everyone will jump, but eventually the 3DS being a "competitor" will become irrelevant.

It's like Nintendo doesn't understand the industry, and just follow the beat of their own drum, which, isn't gonna fly anymore. The company is run by overly conservative businessmen in suits who are out of touch. You can tell that these decisions were made simply by looking at numbers, and trying to be the most risk-averse. The release of the Switch was a correction, being passed off as an innovation. The problem being, is that if you don't take proper risks, then you'll never succeed, business is a gamble, and the number one rule in gambling is knowing when to take risks, and committing to them.

What Nintendo SHOULD have done is the following:

Launch the Switch as a PORTABLE console more powerful than WiiU and a successor to the 3DS. Like Sony does with the Playstation line, cut all 1st party support for the console upon launch, but allow 3rd party devs to keep the console afloat by pushing content on it, so that the userbase doesn't feel neglected, yet understands that the console is at its last legs due to a lack of power. Maintain the WiiU alive till 2019-2020, and make sure that all WiiU releases, as well as previous games get an enhanced port on Switch, to show case how the console is more powerful than it, and retain consumer faith in your last product.
The Wii U was an inch away from bleeding money the entire time it existed, and would DEFINITELY bleed money if they kept it on life support for three to four more years. They don't have the money to burn doubling it's lifespan so that a few bitter people on forums don't yell at them. The Wii U didn't have anything resembling consumer faith outside of such a tiny fraction of people that it would be funny if it weren't so utterly sad. I don't blame them at all for dropping it like a hot potato instead of attempting to support dual releases for it for twice as long as it already struggled to exist for.
Then, come 2020, you release an upgrade to the Switch similar to the Pro, or the n3DS, for anyone wanting to hop over. Come the start of Generation 9, you have a very powerful portable machine able to run console games, that has a hefty library to boast about while the competition is getting started. Moreover, aiming the console at your install base of 64 million is FAR more intelligent than burning the 13 million that bought a WiiU and telling them that you're going back on your promise of "we're not giving up on the WiiU, it as a long life ahead of it" (Reggie - June 2014). Not only did they kill consumer faith in their brand by dropping the WiiU like that, but also, it's simple numbers, the 64 million 3DS owners will eventually make a jump over to the Switch once the price is reasonable and the library is worthwhile. However, for that to work, you have to market it as a PORTABLE, meaning, cut the gimmicky crap out of the joycons to make the price as reasonable as you can, enhance the battery life as much as you can, and finally, give it tablet-like functionality as a multimedia device.
Actually, the battery life isn't that far off from that of the 3DS. Granted, people complained about that pretty badly, too. The gimmick is a risk they're taking , which. . .is exactly the kind of thing you said they weren't doing. If it needs to be marketed as a handheld and given multimedia function to survive, then Nintendo will likely shift marketing strategies and patch in multimedia functions.
Hell, even sell it at a loss. The software sales (which are known to have high attach rate), and royalties from 3rd parties will make it worthwhile. The most important aspect of a console is that people BUY it, so that you have a large install base. As it stands, the Switch is set up for another 3DS situation in which it'll need a price cut and aggressive marketing to revive it after its initial failure. Especially since it's being marketed as home console, despite running portable hardware. Whoever thought that was a good idea, needs to be fired.

/rant

Anyway, why did I bring this up?

So people temper their expectations. It's not pessimism, it's reality. If you're expecting the Switch to be a portable machine that will only get Nintendo games, and will probably be alive for 3-4 years, and are OK with paying extra for it to get it early (as a price cut is will need to happen regardless), then you won't be disappointed. Anything more than that, and you only have yourself to blame.
Wii sold well because it appealed to a market outside of the industry, it actually did very poorly among gamers.

It had the lowest attach rate out of all Gen VII consoles:
View attachment 125472

and the console was constantly critically panned by gamers as it being one with very few interesting games. In fact, the majority of best selling Wii games, were games aimed at people who weren't really interested in gaming:
View attachment 125473
Contrasted to the PS3, and you see a clear difference:
View attachment 125474
Irrelevant, but it's sticking in my mind that the Nintendo's best selling games tend to land in a similar ballpark to those third party titles even on horribly selling systems. The 3DS moreso, but the even the Wii U still had several games that could be slipped between those numbers despite having a tiny fraction of the PS3's install base.
In fact, going into the WiiU, one of the main concerns among gamers was if Nintendo would be able to re-establish itself as a top dog of the industry again, and fix its reputation, rather than remain as the outsider that pandered to non-gamers and did its own thing. Because in many ways, the Wii was a failure within the industry and to gamers veiled as a success due to it grabbing an audience from outside gaming. However, it's very evident just how the successful the Wii really was in gaming when you look at its abysmal retention rate, and how it failed to turn that audience drew into gaming with the Wii, into gamers with the WiiU, ESPECIALLY in a growing industry.

In many ways, the Wii is DEFINITELY an outlier. 90% of the consoles sold were sold were sold to non-gamers who didn't return, and the majority of gamers simply shelved the thing and let it collect dust.

Thus, now we can look at this trend with more clarity:



This trend will persist so long as Nintendo continues to dance at the beat of their own drum.



Not at all, Nintendo has taken risks in the past, and as time went on, they've become more and more risk averse. More importanly, they are unable to learn from their mistakes, repeating them time and time again. The Switch is a 3rd attempt at grabbing that casual market that loved the Wii and DS, and an utter negligence of the demands of gamers and their fanbase, yet again.
I wouldn't call a consolidation of all of their games onto a single system in an attempt to avoid droughts once they have their software pipeline working an utter negligence of the demands of their fanbase. It's only an utter negligence if the only demand you look at is the demand for a more powerful console. Things like being able to play mainline Pokemon on the same system as all of their other console games has always been a decent sized demand, and it seems poised to happen, just not in the same way some imagined.
Sony and Microsoft and Sega have all take massive risks as well, in fact, the PS3 was a huge risk for Sony, with Blu-Ray adoption, and being sold at that insane price of $599... AT A LOSS. However, Sony learned from their mistakes, and corrected them, as did M$ with the Xbone. At the launch of the PS3, Sony was riding off the hubris and arrogance of the success of the PS2, and thought they could get away with anything, and wound up paying dearly for it.

It's a similar case with Nintendo, except they're still very much arrogantly set in their way. Whereas Sony understood what the average gamer wants, and delivered it to them with the PS4, Nintendo continues to reject the demands of the industry, and thickheadedly assume that because of their brand, they can do whatever they want and people will follow along.
Clearly not, or they wouldn't have even bothered correcting the mistakes from the Wii U era that they did. They're just attempting to expand their userbase beyond the same clique of unpleasable gamers again, which might not be advisable but is certainly understandable. One of the gimmicks is local multiplayer only requiring the purchase of a single system and one of several games, which regardless of whether or anyone thinks it will actually work is clearly intended to self-market the system via additional exposure. It's not what the average gamer wants because they only play online with their own clique, but for groups of people that actually have interactions in real life the system is intended to convince others of it's value via in-person interaction. And judging by how some people become sold on it trying it at events in person already, that may actually be a good idea, seeing as it clearly presents better in person than behind a screen.
The industry is very simple, gamers want a variety of content on a console. The console with the most variety, is the console that will attract the majority of gamers to it. In order to have variety you MUST draw in the largest number of 3rd party titles, and to do so, you need to create a platform that's easy to develop for, and powerful enough to justify a purchase over last generation consoles.

You see, the reason console generations even exist, and why we have a jump from gen to gen, isn't because it's a tradition, that's dumb, the reason why we have jumps in generations is BECAUSE of power. Because the older consoles are simply no longer able to handle what new games can do. The Switch in this case, does NOT follow this at all, and neither the WiiU. And granted, the Wii breaks the convention, but I've already explained how that was an outlier, and a failure among gamers.

The Switch has NO business existing in the home console market. End of story. It's not gonna draw an audience from either 3rd party devs, or gamers. As a portable though, it's very well justified, as the 3DS is at its very limit, and holding back the software (Pokemon is the best example of this). And no, this has nothing to do with "graphics" either, things like physics, content, animations, sound, AI, performance, engines, etc... all play into how powerful a console is, and those are all part of the user experience.

Yet, Nintendo willfully ignores this, and pretends its not competing with the rest of them, when it very clearly is. Nothing reflects Nintendo's hubris better than their insistence on selling the Switch at a profit for that ridiculous price, especially when it's make or break moment for them.




HDR and motion sensors are gimmicky crap, they're driving up the price of the remote to $90, and you're PAYING for that, whether it gets proper use in games, or not. The $90 of the remote are a contributing factor to the $299 price tag on the console since it's NOT sold at a loss, as has been officially stated by Kimishima. So, what could have been a better chipset in the form of Pascal, which would have saved battery life, and increased performance, instead wound up being a cheaper chip, just so they could throw in a gimmicky feature which adds little to the experience.




My prediction is that it'll sell 20-30 million units lifetime. I see it as a portable console, and the downward trend for Nintendo will continue so long as they continue to march at the beat of their own drum. There's no way the Switch is outselling the 3DS. And yes, this IS a portable console, regardless of what Nintendo says. It's got portable hardware, and is built with a portable mindset. AFAIC, they've dropped out of the home console market with the discontinuation of the WiiU, they just refuse to outright say it as it's bad PR.
 
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Indeed.

Remember when Sega went from having several sucessful IPs to basically just Sonic and Football Manager?
Because Sega LITERALLY went backrupt. Dreamcast actually sold really well, it was just too late, they were too deep in the red, and when they dropped out and went 3rd party, they did it after selling a lot of their studios and IP.

I wouldn't be the same for Nintendo if they quit while they were still ahead.

Well I mean...they'd no longer have hardware sales to bolster their money. I'd imagine that'd impact them a bit, and because of that, I think they'd be less likely to invest in their less proven/more obscure franchises like F-Zero.
Yeah, but it's a question of cost vs. revenue. I honestly don't have the answer to that, as I don't have access to the data of Nintendo's company costs, etc...

However, seeing their ever-decreasing hardware sales, it's starting to seem as less of a question of IF and more of a WHEN. Unless they get their **** together, restructure the upper management, and get back on top, they will eventually have to cross that bridge.

At which point, full software will be more profitable than consoles investments, and they'd even have a chance to expand their studios.

Nintendo has the largest pantheon of IP in gaming, ofc they could churn out tons and tons of games from less popular titles, as they'd no longer need to have titles that "sell hardware" but rather, as long as the game at least breaks even, it's worth making. Games like Golden Sun, Metroid, F-Zero go off the wayside, for two reasons. One, because Miyamoto keeps meddling and feels EVERYTHING not Mario needs to be innovation, and two , because Nintendo makes software to sell hardware. So they only care about their biggest brands. So breaking even isn't enough.
 

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Yep.

Honestly that's why I'm expecting Fire Emblem Warriors to only have Shadow Dragon, Awakening, Fates, and maybe Shadows of Valentia characters to start, plus maybe Ike as a bonus due to sheer popularity.

Magvel, Jugdral, Elibe, and other Tellius charactes will likely be DLC at best.
To be honest, if we look at the possibility of the Heroes poll also being used for Fire Emblem Warriors, there's a decent possibility that we could get Roy and Lyn(and maybe Hector) at the original release. Cause really, when one is the most popular FE female and the other 2 are the 2nd and 3rd most popular FE males out of lots of other characters and even beating out the Awakening and Fates leads, that's bound for some attention from Koei Tecmo and they do pay attention to popularity, considering Linkle was turned from a concept to an actual character for Hyrule Warriors due to fan demands.
 
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Since everyone is posting their Battle Ballots in light of the final day, I might as well do so as well.

Final Battle Ballot.png


Yeah, yeah, I know I'm one of those new-school Fire Emblem fans, but I wanted to give some love to the Hoshido characters. The ones you see here are some of my favorites, followed by my favorite Nohrian and a favorite Awakening character of mine.

I spammed votes for Takumi for the last four days to make sure he remains in the top 10 at the very least, though it'd be great to see him move up a few places.
 

Coricus

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As a fan of predominantly mid-tier Nintendo franchises such as Kirby, Fire Emblem, and particularly the already heavily neglected and extremely unlikely to get a sequel Kid Icarus, I would be absolutely incensed if they were forced out of the console industry. They would likely make nothing but Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon at that point, and primarily for mobile. That isn't the kind of game selection I want at all, so at that point I would likely abandon the company in favor of either a weak selection of PC games or just drop out of gaming altogether.
 
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D

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Midgen has literally never even been tried. There's no way to even know for sure if it's market suicide or not, as of now it's just another prediction in the stew.
It hasn't been tried because its absolutely foolish.

Who's gonna buy a console with NO games, that's less powerful and more expensive than the competition, who already have a ton of games and a ton of momentum. It's common sense.

According to Sean Malstrom, they appear to be marketing the system to lapsed Nintendo fans that like their games but haven't felt a reason to buy a Nintendo system for a while, and considering the number of "I skipped the Wii U and now I'm getting this" and "I haven't gotten a Nintendo system in *X* years and now I'm getting this" posts on certain sites after the initial trailer, he may be on to something. Of course, there's no telling how many of them stayed after they saw the price, but they were at least an interested group when the initial concept was shown and the selection of games seems tailored to beckon more to them than to the hardcore community.
Yeah, all those people moved onto Sony and Microsoft consoles after the Gamecube. They didn't just sit around twiddling their thumbs or give up on their hobby, they moved onto consoles which offered games. Thus, logic dictates that Nintendo is in direct competition with the PS4 and Xbone for that audience. But, they're doing so by offering a less powerful, more expensive machine with no access to AAA big-hitters.
Marketing the system as a handheld brings up exactly the sentiment that you mention later, which is that Nintendo has pulled out of the home console business and that it would be a PR nightmare. Perhaps it's not ideal, but the alternative would involve a backfire Nintendo doesn't want to deal with. Why are you judging them for doing such when you know exactly why?

The Switch will likely be groomed as a 3DS successor. In that case, it's competition with the 3DS will gradually wane. Not everyone will jump, but eventually the 3DS being a "competitor" will become irrelevant.

The Wii U was an inch away from bleeding money the entire time it existed, and would DEFINITELY bleed money if they kept it on life support for three to four more years. They don't have the money to burn doubling it's lifespan so that a few bitter people on forums don't yell at them. The Wii U didn't have anything resembling consumer faith outside of such a tiny fraction of people that it would be funny if it weren't so utterly sad. I don't blame them at all for dropping it like a hot potato instead of attempting to support dual releases for it for twice as long as it already struggled to exist for.Actually, the battery life isn't that far off from that of the 3DS. Granted, people complained about that pretty badly, too. The gimmick is a risk they're taking , which. . .is exactly the kind of thing you said they weren't doing. If it needs to be marketed as a handheld and given multimedia function to survive, then Nintendo will likely shift marketing strategies and patch in multimedia functions.
I need a source on the WiiU bleeding money, because that console was sold at a profit. And a cheaper variation was certainly an option. Tech gets cheaper as time goes on, not the other way around.

Also, you can't just "patch in" 4G connectivity and other hardware features. You also can't patch in an entire OS language.

Irrelevant, but it's sticking in my mind that the Nintendo's best selling games tend to land in a similar ballpark to those third party titles even on horribly selling systems. The 3DS moreso, but the even the Wii U still had several games that could be slipped between those numbers despite having a tiny fraction of the PS3's install base.
How is it irrelevant?


I wouldn't call a consolidation of all of their games onto a single system in an attempt to avoid droughts once they have their software pipeline working an utter negligence of the demands of their fanbase. It's only an utter negligence if the only demand you look at is the demand for a more powerful console. Things like being able to play mainline Pokemon on the same system as all of their other console games has always been a decent sized demand, and it seems poised to happen, just not in the same way some imagined
You're not explaining your point very clearly here. And it is indeed an utter negligence for points I've expressed in all my previous posts. I've explained how the industry works, what gamers demand, and how to get there. Switch fails at all these things, and compensates with casual appeal through gimmicks.

Clearly not, or they wouldn't have even bothered correcting the mistakes from the Wii U era that they did. They're just attempting to expand their userbase beyond the same clique of unpleasable gamers again, which might not be advisable but is certainly understandable. One of the gimmicks is local multiplayer only requiring the purchase of a single system and one of several games, which regardless of whether or anyone thinks it will actually work is clearly intended to self-market the system via additional exposure. It's not what the average gamer wants because they only play online with their own clique, but for groups of people that actually have interactions in real life the system is intended to convince others of it's value via in-person interaction. And judging by how some people become sold on it trying it at events in person already, that may actually be a good idea, seeing as it clearly presents better in person than behind a screen.
What mistakes from the WiiU era did they specially correct? Only one to come to mind is the region lock. Yet they're still offering an overpriced and underpowered machine with bleak 3rd party support, and tons of promises for the future. Their online platform is by far the worst out all 3 console makers, the system comes with 3 hours of battery life (which no, isn't "on par" with the 3DS 5+, which IT got a lot of **** for upon launch), they're still not offering a reasonable account system so you don't have to repurchase stuff, list goes on...

Second, you contradicted your own previous statement right here:
It's not what the average gamer wants because they only play online with their own clique, but for groups of people that actually have interactions in real life
Disregarding the condescension from such remark, this goes entirely against what you previously said about "Nintendo not showing utter negligence for the demands of gamers."

That group of "unpleasable gamers" make up 90% of the consumer base in the industry. Nintendo's hardware sales numbers very clearly reflect that. Like it or not. It's not that they're "unpleasable" it's that Nintendo doesn't care to please them.

I don't see it as quite that bleak even with as bad as the reception has been, but then I wouldn't feel passionate enough to pirate current gen video games because I'm upset at the market policy of a video game company so *shrug*.
No need to take such snide pot shots man, I've been fairly polite with you dude. Feel free to see things however you like, I'm merely laying out the facts.
 

FalKoopa

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Imagine an all PC future.

That would be an interesting, yet scary thought.

I need to get me a gaming PC one day.
I think an all-PC future is an inevitability.
Consoles no longer are as simple as "turn on and play" anymore, and more and more gamers are tech-savvy. So, consoles don't really have an edge over PCs in today's market.

It's only the price.
 

Wolfie557

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Adjustable DONG size in this new Connan game is something Ive never seen in a game before haha.

It even has jingle(do u still use the word here?) physics. And some scenes he's naked completely so you can see it in all it's glory in squat positions and stuff.

wtf, it's great. :laugh:
 
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D

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I think an all-PC future is an inevitability.
Consoles no longer are as simple as "turn on and play" anymore, and more and more gamers are tech-savvy. So, consoles don't really have an edge over PCs in today's market.

It's only the price.
PCs and mobiles will dominate the future.

Mobile platforms are getting seriously powerful, and inter-connectivity between the two is only increasing.

Future will be more about Gaming OS's and publishing platforms like Steam, to unify things, while hardware will be a more "choose your own" kinda thing. Esp with stuff like VR.

Look at phones. Android is a unifying OS, but you have tons of different hardware variations.
 
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Chrono.

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Yes.

Then they made a "superior" 3DS version with more content because **** the Wii U.

At least we can transfer the the characters to the original.
This is actually incorrect, the Legends characters have been purchasable alone without the need for the 3DS game for a very long time now.
 
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Mythra

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A friend's house got stolen; his TVs, clothes, Wii U gone.

****
 

Coricus

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It hasn't been tried because its absolutely foolish.

Who's gonna buy a console with NO games, that's less powerful and more expensive than the competition, who already have a ton of games and a ton of momentum. It's common sense.



Yeah, all those people moved onto Sony and Microsoft consoles after the Gamecube. They didn't just sit around twiddling their thumbs or give up on their hobby, they moved onto consoles which offered games. Thus, logic dictates that Nintendo is in direct competition with the PS4 and Xbone for that audience. But, they're doing so by offering a less powerful, more expensive machine with no access to AAA big-hitters.


I need a source on the WiiU bleeding money, because that console was sold at a profit. And a cheaper variation was certainly an option. Tech gets cheaper as time goes on, not the other way around.

Also, you can't just "patch in" 4G connectivity and other hardware features. You also can't patch in an entire OS language.



How is it irrelevant?



You're not explaining your point very clearly here. And it is indeed an utter negligence for points I've expressed in all my previous posts. I've explained how the industry works, what gamers demand, and how to get there. Switch fails at all these things, and compensates with casual appeal through gimmicks.



What mistakes from the WiiU era did they specially correct? Only one to come to mind is the region lock. Yet they're still offering an overpriced and underpowered machine with bleak 3rd party support, and tons of promises for the future. Their online platform is by far the worst out all 3 console makers, the system comes with 3 hours of battery life (which no, isn't "on par" with the 3DS 5+, which IT got a lot of **** for upon launch), they're still not offering a reasonable account system so you don't have to repurchase stuff, list goes on...

Second, you contradicted your own previous statement right here:

Disregarding the condescension from such remark, this goes entirely against what you previously said about "Nintendo not showing utter negligence for the demands of gamers."

That group of "unpleasable gamers" make up 90% of the consumer base in the industry. Nintendo's hardware sales numbers very clearly reflect that. Like it or not. It's not that they're "unpleasable" it's that Nintendo doesn't care to please them.


No need to take such snide pot shots man, I've been fairly polite with you dude. Feel free to see things however you like, I'm merely laying out the facts.
Apologies, that was a bit much. I'm a bit easy to ruffle on the topic.

Have we even seen anything on how the account system is being handled with the Switch? I thought I heard them say they were going to offer standard accounts from now on.

The Vita had 3G on a model and that model sold even more horribly than the rest of it. The only way Nintendo would be able to suffice on that market would be if it was literally a phone, and that market is even steeper than the console industry.

I would assume those people moved on to the Playstation ecosystem before the Gamecube since it's the next worst selling system after the Wii U and also part of that chart. I don't see why the Gamecube is always so praised, it's the reason Nintendo started pursuing the casual industry in the first place.

. . .But anyway, apologies for the snide comment. I've been trying to enjoy my time waiting for the system and there seems to be nothing but negativity on the subject. It's been wearing on me a bit.

*EDIT* Well that was my worst nightmare. I wanted to delete the particularly out of line comment that I knew I shouldn't have made and apologize further and my internet crashed. Look, I'm really sorry.

And as for the other thing that came off badly, I don't play anything but online generally either so I included myself under that banner too. I'm not trying to look down on anyone so much as point out there's other types out there.
 
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AwesomeAussie27

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Adjustable DONG size in this new Connan game is something Ive never seen in a game before haha.

It even has jingle(do u still use the word here?) physics. And some scenes he's naked completely so you can see it in all it's glory in squat positions and stuff.

wtf, it's great. :laugh:
Look out Dante's Inferno's Lucifer, there is a new sheriff that's going commando.
 

Champ Gold

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Doesn't matter, Switch is gonna succeed in Japan where it matters the most because console gaming is absolute **** there and handhelds are kings especially when the Vita is probably on its last legs there by 2018

And if you use the mobile excuse, don't.

They were reports that mobile gaming rarely effects handhelds there.

PS4 just barely outsold the Wii U in 2017. This is a market that eats up Splatoon, Pokemon, Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest like candy. Put those games on a massively stronger Nintendo handheld console hybrid and you got something that's big for that market.

TL;DR
**** the west. PS4 is controlling the US and Europe market and Nintendo is going after a secondary market/handheld than trying for the solo home system not much here. They are marketing it as a console here but asking them to make a system on par to those level ain't enough since that market already owns a PS4 and no matter the strength, third parties still won't come as hard because they always lose out to Nintendo games (see Gamecube)
 
D

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Apologies, that was a bit much. I'm a bit easy to ruffle on the topic.

Have we even seen anything on how the account system is being handled with the Switch? I thought I heard them say they were going to offer standard accounts from now on.

The Vita had 3G on a model and that model sold even more horribly than the rest of it. The only way Nintendo would be able to suffice on that market would be if it was literally a phone, and that market is even steeper than the console industry.

I would assume those people moved on to the Playstation ecosystem before the Gamecube since it's the next worst selling system after the Wii U and also part of that chart. I don't see why the Gamecube is always so praised, it's the reason Nintendo started pursuing the casual industry in the first place.

. . .But anyway, apologies for the snide comment. I've been trying to enjoy my time waiting for the system and there seems to be nothing but negativity on the subject. It's been wearing on me a bit.
No worries man, no harm done.

I think people have been jumping onto the competition each console since the Playstation came out. Every PS console barring the PS3 has sold over 100 million, and the PS3 got very close at 85 million despite a very shaky start. Many people loved the SNES more out of the 3rd party variety, and less out of Nintendo games, and every gen after, less and less people carry over. I think many feel that the GCN was their last good console, as (and this is anecdotal evidence) many people I've spoken to really liked the GCN, and the games it had, but didn't even bother with Nintendo from Wii onward. A lot of my friends simply either got a 360 or a PS3, and laughed at the Wii/U. From that crowd of people of PS3/360 owners, many who still haven't jumped onto current gen consoles (as many still haven't) now have a choice, do I move onto the PS4/Xbone? Or do I buy a Switch, and just by comparing the two devices, the choice is fairly simple. PS4 is guaranteed to be a continuation of the PS3's success.

And no, it was the Wii where Nintendo began with their Blue Ocean strategy, and appeal to casuals, after the relative failure that was the GCN at that time. GCN was Nintendo's last attempt at a dedicated home console with no gimmicks. GCN was only seen as "kiddy" in the eyes of preteens who saw all the mature titles on PS2 like GTA and MGS and laughed at Mario, but GCN had a lot of mature titles too, RE4 was a limited exclusive, Eternal Darkness, Prime series, etc... GCN's shortcomings came with the proprietary mini disks which could hold very little data, and the lack of online play.

Also, Vita's 3G did poorly because 3G is bad for gaming, and it really didn't offer much outside of raising the price (plus the Vita was a disaster anyway). 4G is in fact very good, perhaps not ideal for gaming (I'm not too keen on the speeds), but for secondary functions like communication and internet, it's phenomenal and available on all current tablets in the market.. Plus, 5G is set to launch in 2020, and that WILL be good enough for gaming./
 

Coricus

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PCs and mobiles will dominate the future.

Mobile platforms are getting seriously powerful, and inter-connectivity between the two is only increasing.

Future will be more about Gaming OS's and publishing platforms like Steam, to unify things, while hardware will be a more "choose your own" kinda thing. Esp with stuff like VR.

Look at phones. Android is a unifying OS, but you have tons of different hardware variations.
*continues apologizing about the negative comments from before*

I think this is why Nintendo is going the way they are, actually. They see gaming going beyond their reach in both directions, so they're attempting to carve out a niche by offering a "have your cake and eat it too" option. Offer a platform that can serve both stationary and portable applications at a range between the two instead of being locked to one type of usage.

The main problem there is that people are so used to having separate machines for separate things that they can't even comprehend what Nintendo's trying to do with it, and many of those that can only primarily have use for one, which is one of the main marketing hurdles Nintendo is going to face with it.
 
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Holder of the Heel

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@ManlySpirit

Don't you want to play Splatoon 2 with me? :(

Or what about Super Mario Odyssey? An open-world Mario game after all these years, it's beautiful!

And Xenoblade Chronicles 2 represents a ridiculous amount of hours in a massive world.

Plus portable Zelda, Fire Emblem Warriors, Bomberman.

A friend's house got stolen; his TVs, clothes, Wii U gone.

****
Well damn, how did he carry away a whole house???
 
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D

Deleted member

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Doesn't matter, Switch is gonna succeed in Japan where it matters the most because console gaming is absolute **** there and handhelds are kings especially when the Vita is probably on its last legs there by 2018

And if you use the mobile excuse, don't.

They were reports that mobile gaming rarely effects handhelds there.

PS4 just barely outsold the Wii U in 2017. This is a market that eats up Splatoon, Pokemon, Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest like candy. Put those games on a massively stronger Nintendo handheld console hybrid and you got something that's big for that market.

TL;DR
**** the west. PS4 is controlling the US and Europe market and Nintendo is going after a secondary market/handheld than trying for the solo home system not much here. They are marketing it as a console here but asking them to make a system on par to those level ain't enough since that market already owns a PS4 and no matter the strength, third parties still won't come as hard because they always lose out to Nintendo games (see Gamecube)
Just as an aside...

People always say portable consoles do well in Japan because of transit, but... using your mobile phone on a Japanese train is a social taboo, and against the rules of transit. Also, when I went there two years ago, not a single person on the trains was using their phone or a console. Not one. People read books, talked with friends, napped, or just stared out the window while listening to music.

I know portables do fairly well in Japan, but I don't think it's cause of transit. I'd like to see a source on the use of these devices, and why mobiles aren't an option, as mobiles and mobile gaming are in fact growing MOST quickly in Asia.
 
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