Social NintenZone Social 5 - Thanks, Everyone

[Swamp Sensei]

So that's bad, but there's actually a part two I'm not showing cause it has a bad word in it.

Apparently, the person saying she should have been more harsh used the term "balloon ****" to describe Pyra and that if the reviewer was okay with Pyra, she had no right to be upset at that comment.

 

[Chrono.]

So that's bad, but there's actually a part two I'm not showing cause it has a bad word in it.

Apparently, the person saying she should have been more harsh used the term "balloon ****" to describe Pyra and that if the reviewer was okay with Pyra, she had no right to be upset at that comment.

If I understand this right, this person didn't criticize Pyra's design enough, so she's getting harassed for it?

Man why do people care about reviews so much.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If I understand this right, this person didn't criticize Pyra's design enough, so she's getting harassed for it?

Indeed.

I just thought it was terribly ironic that he used the term "balloon ****" after going on about that though.

Man why do people care about reviews so much.

Dude I don't know.

People just seem to go bonkers over reviews.

I'm reading a RSE review thread and...

It's a ride man...

 

[Mythra]

>When the current talk enters Pyra Hell again.

This image gave me an idea.
Something, something, Shinji Ikari.

Indeed.

I just thought it was terribly ironic that he used the term "balloon ****" after going on about that though.


Dude I don't know.

People just seem to go bonkers over reviews.

I'm reading a RSE review thread and...

It's a ride man...

RSE like in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald?

Link me up fam.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

RSE like in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald?

Reset Era.

That said, I think you know that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Xenoblade 2 designs are controversial and make me get scoliosis from looking at them. More at 11.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

and make me get scoliosis from looking at them.

This reminds me...


@Scoliosis Jones

Where are ya buddy?

 

[Rizen]

Are XBC2's designs even controversial at this point? XBC X had freaking bunny costumes.

 

[Aurane]

Xenoblade 2 is bad because Pyra's design gave me arthritis.

I'm sure this joke is gonna smooth over.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Are XBC2's designs even controversial at this point? XBC X had freaking bunny costumes.

The differences being that...

In XBCX, those designs were optional and had similarly skimpy clothes for the men.


In XBC2, there are no ways to change your armor so you're stuck with a design for better or for worse. Now to be fair, even if the female blades get.... silly. It seems the female drivers have excellent designs that I think even the most adamant protester would like.

Now, I'm of the opinion that while some of the XBC2 designs are... silly for lack of a better term, I don't think they're all THAT bad and that people are being a little too angry over this.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For the record the only way I'd be ok with this stupid **** is if Voldo from Soul Calibur was the standard for male characters. And it's not just Xenoblade. (Looking at you Shelob in Shadows of War)

 

[Rizen]

I'm just saying after Tifa, Lulu, half of DoA, Silent, idk I'm tired but you'd think people would be used to suggestive themes. :/

why is xbc2 a big deal?

 

[Frostwraith]

Xenoblade 2 designs aren't even that bad compared to what I've seen elsewhere in Japanese media.

I actually like them overall. The fact they got a lot of guest artists allows for plenty of variety although I guess people might prefer more consistency by having a smaller number of artists working in collaboration to achieve a higher degree of consistency.

As for the fanservice, that stuff is literally almost everywhere in Japanese media. And men are sexualized in media aimed at girls, namely shoujo manga, otome games, etc. It's just that the content aimed towards the male demographic get exported more often and has more visibility in the West compared to content targeted towards female demographics, as a result it makes seem like their games are sexist, hence the controversy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm just saying after Tifa, Lulu, half of DoA, Silent, idk I'm tired but you'd think people would be used to suggestive themes. :/

why is xbc2 a big deal?

Ultimately it isn't. It's just one more game, but people are more antsy these days.

Personally I care more about the writing, and from what I've seen Pyra is pretty dang well written.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As for the fanservice, that stuff is literally almost everywhere in Japanese media

I am so ****ing tired of the "Oh it happens all the time" excuse being used to defend stupid ****. If the game had a plot important male character with a banana hammock constantly swinging his **** in the camera then I'd at least feel like it isn't just pandering to horny weebs who don't need pandering

 

[Frostwraith]

I am so ****ing tired of the "Oh it happens all the time" excuse being used to defend stupid ****. If the game had a plot important male character with a banana hammock constantly swinging his **** in the camera then I'd at least feel like it isn't just pandering to horny weebs who don't need pandering

You're literally ignoring the rest of my points.

Most mainstream Japanese video games are aimed towards a male demographic, hence the sexualization of female characters. If you check out anime, manga and games aimed at females (which are obscure in the West), the sexualization of men is on full display, with a recent trend being Japanese mobile gacha games that are basically husbando collectors

I interact with the anime community almost on a daily basis, and there are a lot of girls that love talking about how hot this or that guy are. I even know a lesbian girl who's really fond of Pyra. I know what I'm talking about.

Well, I guess I'm going to block you here too like I've done on Discord, since I know having a discussion with you is actually impossible since you deliberately ignore key points of my posts to feed your narrative and whining. Adiós.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're literally ignoring the rest of my points.

Most mainstream Japanese video games are aimed towards a male demographic, hence the sexualization of female characters. If you check out anime, manga and games aimed at females (which are obscure in the West), the sexualization of men is on full display, with a recent trend being Japanese mobile gacha games that are basically husbando collectors

I interact with the anime community almost on a daily basis, and there are a lot of girls that love talking about how hot this or that guy are. I even know a lesbian girl who's really fond of Pyra. I know what I'm talking about.

Well, I guess I'm going to block you here too like I've done on Discord, since I know having a discussion with you is actually impossible since you deliberately ignore key points of my posts to feed your narrative and whining. Adiós.

Just because there's an explanation doesn't make it ok how come horny weebs never seem to get this argument. Also "I know a lesbian therefore I know what I'm talking aout so shut up you bisexual woman who has a sexual preference cor women! How could you possibly understand?" Neat.
Also for context I turned Frost into 2 dril tweets and he got mad

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Let's just ban Pyra discussion from ever happening again.

We clearly cannot debate this point with maturity.

 

[Frostwraith]

Let's just ban Pyra discussion from ever happening again.

We clearly cannot debate this point with maturity.

Well, I actually try to explain stuff and make people understand why Xenoblade 2 is the way it is. I draw the line when people cherrypick parts of my arguments to justify themselves. It's a fallacy and ruins any actual debate.

Not a lot of people are into Japanese media, especially a lot of video game fans that aren't into JRPGs, anime, manga, etc. Which is totally fine, but there are a lot of misconceptions and I'm trying to use my familiarity with them to explain why these things happen. I never even once said whether I agree with it or not because I'm trying to be objective here.

I'm not even fond of the gratuitous sexualization I see in a lot of Japanese media, but at this point, I've grown indifferent about it and ignore it in favor of a work's actual merits, i.e. production values, narrative, gameplay, art direction outside of sexualized characters, animation quality, sound design or music. And I'm indifferent because, as I said, it's literally almost everywhere.

Of course, for many people, it's easier to ignore the experiences of people who actually know, by brushing their argumentation aside and calling them "weebs" as if that somehow invalidates their arguments. Why bother making an effort in arguing, providing evidence that backs the points being made when you can stoop low to calling names and act like a child, am I right?

This is why I don't interact with the gaming community that often anymore. It's full of children who can't have a civilized discussion.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, I actually try to explain stuff and make people understand why Xenoblade 2 is the way it is. I draw the line when people cherrypick parts of my arguments to justify themselves. It's a fallacy and ruins any actual debate.

Not a lot of people are into Japanese media, especially a lot of video game fans that aren't into JRPGs, anime, manga, etc. Which is totally fine, but there are a lot of misconceptions and I'm trying to use my familiarity with them to explain why these things happen. I never even once said whether I agree with it or not because I'm trying to be objective here.

I'm not even fond of the gratuitous sexualization I see in a lot of Japanese media, but at this point, I've grown indifferent about it and ignore it in favor of a work's actual merits, i.e. production values, narrative, gameplay, art direction outside of sexualized characters, animation quality, sound design or music. And I'm indifferent because, as I said, it's literally almost everywhere.

Of course, for many people, it's easier to ignore the experiences of people who actually know, by brushing their argumentation aside and calling them "weebs" as if that somehow invalidates their arguments. Why bother making an effort in arguing, provide evidence of the contrary when you can stoop low to calling names and act like a child, am I right?

This is why I don't interact with the gaming community that often anymore. It's full of children who can't have a civilized discussion.

You're trying to explain that it isn't a problem to people who have a problem. Ironically enough you're beimg hypocritical as you whined "LGBT representation is forced" and refused to hear out anything else, ya damn weeb

 

[N3ON]

To me many of the XC2 designs are more embarrassing than anything else.

Female sexualization is nothing new, and, despite what some truly virtuous individuals have to say on the matter, as a female I don't find it particularly problematic as long as there are examples of both male sexualization and more sensible female designs/characters to balance it out. There is a place for it as long as it has company. Honestly I take more offence at Pyra's design just being preposterous and fugly. Sexualize her if you must, but it can still be done while you're making a halfway decent design. Fire Emblem manages to do it.

In any case, she just looks like someone took some of the worst parts of anime designs and crammed them together. It's pretty shameless, it's pretty tactless, but it didn't have to be.

That's my take, at any rate.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To me many of the XC2 designs are more embarrassing than anything else.

Female sexualization is nothing new, and, despite what some truly virtuous individuals have to say on the matter, as a female I don't find it particularly problematic as long as there are examples of both male sexualization and more sensible female designs/characters to balance it out. There is a place for it as long as it has company. Honestly I take more offence at Pyra's design just being preposterous and fugly. Sexualize her if you must, but it can still be done while you're making a halfway decent design. Fire Emblem manages to do it.

In any case, she just looks like someone took some of the worst parts of anime designs and crammed them together. It's pretty shameless, it's pretty tactless, but it didn't have to be.

That's my take, at any rate.

There's another thing, Fire Emblem at least makes sense. Lyn? She has low con (can't hold things that are too heavy without being weighed down) and is a speedy unit, Tharja lives in a desert area so she needs to keep herself cool, Charlotte's a gold digger trying to seduce a rich man and her class has low defence, Camilla's personality is essentially Dom Mom, meaning that these characters at least kinda have an explanation that isn't "I WANTED TO MASTURBATE"

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There's another thing, Fire Emblem at least makes sense. Lyn? She has low con (can't hold things that are too heavy without being weighed down) and is a speedy unit, Tharja lives in a desert area so she needs to keep herself cool, Charlotte's a gold digger trying to seduce a rich man and her class has low defence, Camilla's personality is essentially Dom Mom, meaning that these characters at least kinda have an explanation that isn't "I WANTED TO MASTURBATE"

Considering the characters in question are simply man made creations, I think perhaps they were made to be "appealing" to look at, hence the fact that all of them are attractive in some way. Even the guy with the booty shot.

 

[Frostwraith]

To me many of the XC2 designs are more embarrassing than anything else.

Female sexualization is nothing new, and, despite what some truly virtuous individuals have to say on the matter, as a female I don't find it particularly problematic as long as there are examples of both male sexualization and more sensible female designs/characters to balance it out. There is a place for it as long as it has company. Honestly I take more offence at Pyra's design just being preposterous and fugly. Sexualize her if you must, but it can still be done while you're making a halfway decent design. Fire Emblem manages to do it.

In any case, she just looks like someone took some of the worst parts of anime designs and crammed them together. It's pretty shameless, it's pretty tactless, but it didn't have to be.

That's my take, at any rate.

This is actually a well-constructed post. Coherent and carefully worded in a way that illustrates the points being made in a clear way that doesn't come across as a temper tantrum.

Anyway, I do agree with some of your points actually. Overall, I do like the designs in XC2, but I can see why Pyra is excessive and over-the-top. Like I said, though, I'm indifferent to it since it's not even the worst case of sexualization considering I've seen a lot more blatant attempts at sexualization elsewhere.

I both agree and disagree with your statement regarding Fire Emblem as it depends on the game a lot. Awakening and Fates are far more blatant than any other entry in the series with characters like Tharja and Camilla. Then again, Yusuke Kozaki may be a talented artist, but I think Awakening and Fates had issues in the art direction that thankfully got addressed in FE Echoes, with its return to form to more grounded character and armor designs. Awakening and Fates still got some nice designs such as those for Chrom, Robin and Lucina, though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Considering the characters in question are simply man made creations, I think perhaps they were made to be "appealing" to look at, hence the fact that all of them are attractive in some way. Even the guy with the booty shot.

Does it fit their character? It does for a few but Pyra's a shy character. Anyone shy would ****ing die looking like that in public. You have a point, though I'm still bitter about this

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Does it fit their character? It does for a few but Pyra's a shy character. Anyone shy would ****ing die looking like that in public. You have a point, though I'm still bitter about this

If my personal theory is correct.

I don't think Pyra has a choice in the matter.

I don't think any of the blades do.

There was talk of slaves in one of the trailers, remember?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If my personal theory is correct.

I don't think Pyra has a choice in the matter.

I don't think any of the blades do.

There was talk of slaves in one of the trailers, remember?

Actually Pyra has a hoodie which she never wears again later, so they can at least wear clothes if they want. But you're most likely right

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Actually Pyra has a hoodie which she never wears again later, so they can at least wear clothes if they want. But you're most likely right

It's more of a cloak and her normal clothes are underneath.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's more of a cloak and her normal clothes are underneath.

It at least means they CAN wear clothes. Also I hear that there's a hot spring scene like the first game

 

[Chandeelure]

I hope Xenoblade 3 female characters look like this:

 

[Deleted member]

To me many of the XC2 designs are more embarrassing than anything else.

Female sexualization is nothing new, and, despite what some truly virtuous individuals have to say on the matter, as a female I don't find it particularly problematic as long as there are examples of both male sexualization and more sensible female designs/characters to balance it out. There is a place for it as long as it has company. Honestly I take more offence at Pyra's design just being preposterous and fugly. Sexualize her if you must, but it can still be done while you're making a halfway decent design. Fire Emblem manages to do it.

In any case, she just looks like someone took some of the worst parts of anime designs and crammed them together. It's pretty shameless, it's pretty tactless, but it didn't have to be.

That's my take, at any rate.

I'm conflicted when it comes to XC2.

I personally don't like the designs period, sexualized or not. There's just a lot going on with them, and the problem stems well beyond the sexualization of the characters tbh. One quick look at the MC's ridiculous attire is all you need, and yet they still feel awfully generic and cliche. That said, I'm not the sort of person who'd slam a design simply for it being sexualized or fanservicey. I understand that "sex sells" is the number one rule of marketing, and that people just love their anime tiddies. There is a room and place for sexy designs likes those, you mentioned FE, but better yet, just look at FF, Tifa's design is very sexual, yet it's not intrusive or bothersome. It's quite memorable in fact. Other examples would be Cammy or Chun Li in the SF series. Or probably the best example I can think of, Morrigan from Darkstalkers, who is a literal succubus, thus, her sexuality is a major part of her character. These deisgns serve a purpose beyond blatant fan service. They make sense within the context of the characters and the universe. Like you said, it's more of a question of execution than anything else. My problem with XC2, is that the sexualization of the characters just feels forced and without much substance. They're just ugly and obnoxious to look at period.

When a series like Rance, which is actual literal porn, manages to have more tasteful and coherent character designs than your fantasy JRPG, you've got a problem:

Despite that however, I'm also not quick to jump on the XC2 hatewagon (I haven't played the game btw - nor do I plan to), because I feel it sends the wrong message overall. Masses overall can't comprehend nuanced messages, thus, the overall idea seems to be diluted into "Eww, sexualization of female characters is bad" which is not how I feel about the issue at all. Really it's more like, "this game's aesthetic seems to lack substance, and imagination, and it's falling back on cliches, contrived designs, and blatant sexualization to make up for that."

That's my take on this whole thing.

 

[Rizen]

I think it's important to acknowledge that pretty much everything in the media paints unrealistic expectations and that can be bad for children's self esteem.
"Charades, pop skill
Water hyacinth, named by a poet
Imitation of life
Like a koi in a frozen pond
Like a goldfish in a bowl
I don't want to hear you cry

That's sugarcane that tasted good
That's cinnamon, that's Hollywood
C'mon, c'mon no one can see you try"

I'd be more concerned she has the proportions of a 90s Barbie doll. The thing is sex sells, like I said, so it's not so much a specific problem as an underlying cultural issue. The best things to do aren't try to ban something but educate people and have good counter examples that celebrate less unrealistic, superficial qualities.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think it's important to acknowledge that pretty much everything in the media paints unrealistic expectations and that can be bad for children's self esteem.
"Charades, pop skill
Water hyacinth, named by a poet
Imitation of life
Like a koi in a frozen pond
Like a goldfish in a bowl
I don't want to hear you cry

That's sugarcane that tasted good
That's cinnamon, that's Hollywood
C'mon, c'mon no one can see you try"

I'd be more concerned she has the proportions of a 90s Barbie doll. The thing is sex sells, like I said, so it's not so much a specific problem as an underlying cultural issue. The best things to do aren't try to ban something but educate people and have good counter examples that celebrate less unrealistic, superficial qualities.

Another example imo is Enchantress in Suicide Squad. Her actress is a model. A super model. Yet they made her thinner with CG. A SUPERMODEL. Someone who gets money for being sexy. Was made thinner

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Pyra's design is enough to cover in a review of the game, it'd just feel sidetracking to go on a rant about her design. Some criticism when talking about character designs would be enough but if it's not in the review do people really need to resort to harassing?

Xenoblade 2 designs aren't even that bad compared to what I've seen elsewhere in Japanese media

Trust him guys, he reads Nanatsu no Taizai.
But seriously though, I don't think that it becomes okay just because it happens so often, especially when this is a big Nintendo game. At this point, I'm not surprised when I see these kinds of designs but I still want better, you know? If we simply accept it as the norm then this kind of thing just becomes more common.

Let's just ban Pyra discussion from ever happening again.

We clearly cannot debate this point with maturity.

We still have Ridley debates legal.
I say we can take Pyra

Tharja lives in a desert area so she needs to keep herself cool,

She wears black robes. That's, like, suicide.
I don't have a problem with Tharja's design because it really isn't that sexualised, it doesn't feel forced. I do have a problem with every Plegian wearing black clothing WHEN THEY LIVE IN A ****ING DESERT just because they're the "bad guys".

(I do want to note that I hate how her controlling behaviour and stalker tendencies are normalised ingane and by her fans. Now she's everywhere and we have Rhajat and Camilla.)

Camilla's personality is essentially Dom Mom,

Yeah, and her ***** has been basically ripped apart because she's riding a ****ing dragon

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think it's important to acknowledge that pretty much everything in the media paints unrealistic expectations and that can be bad for children's self esteem.
"Charades, pop skill
Water hyacinth, named by a poet
Imitation of life
Like a koi in a frozen pond
Like a goldfish in a bowl
I don't want to hear you cry

That's sugarcane that tasted good
That's cinnamon, that's Hollywood
C'mon, c'mon no one can see you try"

I'd be more concerned she has the proportions of a 90s Barbie doll. The thing is sex sells, like I said, so it's not so much a specific problem as an underlying cultural issue. The best things to do aren't try to ban something but educate people and have good counter examples that celebrate less unrealistic, superficial qualities.

That's a fair point.

Getting rid of these kinds of things isn't the solution.

Instead we should create enough material with more attainable expectations. Let both sit side by side and take the positive aspects of both.

That said, I do have an issue with the term realistic. Some people really do look like Pyra.

She wears black robes. That's, like, suicide.
I don't have a problem with Tharja's design because it really isn't that sexualised, it doesn't feel forced. I do have a problem with every Plegian wearing black clothing WHEN THEY LIVE IN A ****ING DESERT just because they're the "bad guys"

Actually...

The results were clear. As the report puts it: "The amount of heat gained by a Bedouin exposed to the hot desert is the same whether he wears a black or a white robe. The additional heat absorbed by the black robe was lost before it reached the skin."

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/19/most-improbable-scientific-research-abrahams

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, despite anything I said in my first post btw. I agree that none of it should be censored. Just because I or other people may not like something, doesn't meant we should infringe on other people's ability to create whatever they like. I respect artistic integrity above all else.

Nothing is too offensive or too radical to be expressed by art imo. Art, at the end of the day is a form of communication, and the moment you start drawing lines on what is acceptable or not to communicate to others, is the moment you start having major problems. You can call out something on being tasteless or offensive or whatever, but people have every right to create whatever tasteless or offensive thing their mind comes up with, so long as other people or being aren't being harmed BY its creation.

 

[Deleted member]

That's a fair point.

Getting rid of these kinds of things isn't the solution.

Instead we should create enough material with more attainable expectations. Let both sit side by side and take the positive aspects of both.

That said, I do have an issue with the term realistic. Some people really do look like Pyra.


Actually...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/19/most-improbable-scientific-research-abrahams

Ok, I stand corrected.
Still, some stuff like Aversa's suit is skintight but maybe her riding a Pegasus has something to do with it.

 

[Rizen]

Some people really do look like Pyra.

Anorexics with implants?

 

[ChikoLad]

If I understand this right, this person didn't criticize Pyra's design enough, so she's getting harassed for it?

Man why do people care about boobs so much.

FTFY

Also the Legendary Heroes Banner in FE Heroes is still treating me like trash.

 

[Coricus]

Ultimately I'm of the opinion that unrealistically massive, flopping boobs aside the precedent for XC2's clothing was long since set in previous games and that the argument "it's OK in those games because it's OPTIONAL" is inherently harmful and expresses a degree of dismissiveness over issues that lead to where the designs currently are in the first place. Ms bunny boobs is optional to use too and they're being rightfully ripped into, but any other game just gets a magical pass on uncomfortably and unrealistically designed clothes being nearly the entire selection of alternate armors because "you don't have to?" It just feels like it treats the argument with a double standard that's harmful to actually understanding and fixing the issue. It's almost as though far fewer people would care about XC2's sexualization if it didn't look "anime," which is. . .uh. . .

That said, my overall opinion is that the designs in XC2 are uncomfortable but that the discourse surrounding them somehow manages to often be vitriolic enough to be even moreso, with an example of such being how this conversation got started back up in the first place. It's gotten to the point of being nearly impossible to actually discuss the game in some places with the degree to which the clothing derails conversation. If people put even a tenth of this kind of effort into complaining about every other game with bad designs, maybe the industry would actually change a bit. As it stands it just seems more like an opportunistic circlejerk that deliberately ignores discussing other issues that need discussion just so people can lift up XC2 as some apex of bad design.