Social NintenZone Social 5 - Thanks, Everyone

[PLATINUM7]

But the company isn't "advertising". That's the point. It wasn't a strange choice, and most really looked at Cloud as like "he has no important Nintendo appearances, so he has no chance", which was not what Sakurai meant about 3rd party characters. A long time back, Source Gaming translated Sakurai's thoughts on 3rd party characters. A mistranslation said they required a Nintendo appearance. In reality, what was said was "Besides that, it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform." which has an extremely different meaning.

The mistranslation actually affected Smash speculation way more than some silly advertisement clause, which didn't really exist much for 3rd parties. Most are added not for advertising in general, but because they like the idea of the options and it fits to use a character exclusive on a system. Soul Calibur for instance. Most 3rd parties are version exclusive. This was more to sell the SC game itself to the players of that system, not to advertise for the system's game that is being represented by a character.


Part of my point with the content too. Disney's even harder, so it would have less than the small amount we got with Cloud. No costumes is actually worse than some costumes. DQ isn't nearly as huge in the West, so that definitely played a role. Most likely, if a DQ character comes in, it'll be the base roster, not DLC. It also doesn't help most knew it as Dragon Warrior and it took a long time for Quest to get its name in the US. It was easy to place the games together, but it's not like it was advertised as the proper name overall. Many still think of Dragon Warrior Monsters in the West, not Dragon Quest Monsters, for the first game, specifically. And so on. A similar example is with Eggman and Robotnik. The US didn't know they were the same person, but Eggman actually said it in-game, which helped a lot. You could also look at Final Fantasy Legend, which is really a Mana-series title. Square-Enix has had a history of having odd name changes of the product itself, often to make it sell easier, respectively.

I'm sure if I mentioned Dragon Warrior they'd have been even more confused. DQ didn't get a game released in the PAL region until VIII. So it's always been Dragon Quest here.

Also Final Fantasy Legend is a SaGa game. You're thinking of FF Adventure (annoyingly known as Mystic Quest in Europe, which left FF Mystic Quest to be renamed Mystic Quest Legend in Europe).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm sure if I mentioned Dragon Warrior they'd have been even more confused. DQ didn't get a game released in the PAL region until VIII. So it's always been Dragon Quest here.

True. But no, my point was the world didn't have Dragon Quest for a long time, besides Japan. The series has a lot of trouble due to this, when it comes to being easy to note.

Also, to be fair, I grew up with Dragon Warrior myself. But I also was born over 20 years ago. Nuff said~

 

[powerprotoman]

honestly for a dQ rep why go for a protagonist...when we can go for THE rpg villain im of course talking about the dragon lord
The originator of multiple tropes in rpgs, and would i prefer alena, psaro, jessica, or Morrie? sure but when it comes to characters with history Dragon lord is the RPG final boss

 

[Rizen]

Cloud being in Smash advertises Cloud. IDK what else to say; that's how it works.

Sakurai mentioned he could have added a Nintendo FF character, like Bartz but Cloud was the most popular choice for a FF character.

I don't get adding a XII character because of Revenant Wings. XII doesn't hold the granduer that VII does and most people would just see it as adding a character from XII, a PS2 game, not Revenant Wings, a DS game. It would be unexpected, sure, but I feel that would just have annoyed people for going out there to get Vaan but not Cloud.

Also, as highly regarded as VI is (my personal favourite but I digress), VII is still more popular. Sure Terra would have been cool but no way would the reaction to her being in Smash be as big as Cloud.

It probably annoyed people to get a FFXV character in Tekken but it happened. I agree Cloud is more popular than FFXII characters, although to Nintendo fans who never owned a PS, FFVI characters would be more popular. It's a tricky debate and either would be a good choice. IMO Sora is probably more popular than Cloud. Maybe Rayman too.

But then we have characters like WFT and Duck Hunt. In the end it all boils down to Sakurai logic. He wants ICs or Pit from one old NES game (at the time of Brawl); he gets them. Same with characters not yet released like Roy and Greninja.

 

[Aetheri]

Cloud being in Smash advertises Cloud. IDK what else to say; that's how it works.

It probably annoyed people to get a FFXV character in Tekken but it happened. I agree Cloud is more popular than FFXII characters, although to Nintendo fans who never owned a PS, FFVI characters would be more popular. It's a tricky debate and either would be a good choice. IMO Sora is probably more popular than Cloud. Maybe Rayman too.

But then we have characters like WFT and Duck Hunt. In the end it all boils down to Sakurai logic. He wants ICs or Pit from one old NES game (at the time of Brawl); he gets them. Same with characters not yet released like Roy and Greninja.

Cloud is in Smash because Sakurai wanted a FF character in the game, and Cloud was, for all intents and purposes, arguably the most popular FF character out there...especially considering how iconic FFVII was as a game...the announcement of it's remake also likely had an impact on Cloud being chosen cuz muh relevance...

Plus in a way he's the Sonic to Link's Mario...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Cloud being in Smash advertises Cloud. IDK what else to say; that's how it works.

...That's not how advertisement works. Like, at all. Honestly, you're looking for something that simply does not exist. Let it go, man.

It probably annoyed people to get a FFXV character in Tekken but it happened. I agree Cloud is more popular than FFXII characters, although to Nintendo fans who never owned a PS, FFVI characters would be more popular. It's a tricky debate and either would be a good choice. IMO Sora is probably more popular than Cloud. Maybe Rayman too.

Not really. Rayman isn't nearly as popular as you think he is. Rabbids have taken over that spot easily. They're way bigger and more promotional. Sora is a little harder to say.

But then we have characters like WFT and Duck Hunt. In the end it all boils down to Sakurai logic. He wants ICs or Pit from one old NES game (at the time of Brawl); he gets them. Same with characters not yet released like Roy and Greninja.

A lot of this is too simplistic of the situation. We wanted Greninja only because he could envision a moveset based upon his design alone. Roy was suggested by Intelligent Systems. He didn't "want" him. He just liked the idea somebody else proposed. WFT was added as a unique idea to take people by surprise. Duck Hunt is a retro choice, and something he feels is important to Nintendo history too.

You're simplifying things way too much. Everything is done for a reason anyway. "Sakurai logic" is just a a generalization that doesn't fit what's going on. He has different guidelines(with few hard rules) for different situations. Lastly, the thing about Sakurai's "logic" is that he doesn't look at things as much from a business perspective as an "how will this be interesting" way. It's exactly why he would add a character that clearly can't be advertisement for a new Nintendo game(as in on Nintendo)... more than once. Cloud, Snake, there's nothing to suggest Bayonetta is getting a sequel, or that any new Pac-Man games are coming out soon. MegaMan and Sonic are about the only franchises to have games coming out soon, close to when they were added to Smash. The rest of the 3rd parties? Nope. And MegaMan was questionable due to Capcom's constant ignoring of him, respectively.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Pac-Man being Pac-Man is enough to suggest there's more Pac-Man coming, even if it's just part of a compilation.

Though around the time of Smash there were the Ghostly Adventure games and Pac-Man Museum. Pac-Man Museum was meant to come to Nintendo consoles before being cancelled. After Smash there was Pac-Man 256 and Championship Edition 2.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Rocket League is so dang cool and fun! I feel like a noob currently but I don't care.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Cloud being in Smash advertises Cloud. IDK what else to say; that's how it works.

It probably annoyed people to get a FFXV character in Tekken but it happened. I agree Cloud is more popular than FFXII characters, although to Nintendo fans who never owned a PS, FFVI characters would be more popular. It's a tricky debate and either would be a good choice. IMO Sora is probably more popular than Cloud. Maybe Rayman too.

But then we have characters like WFT and Duck Hunt. In the end it all boils down to Sakurai logic. He wants ICs or Pit from one old NES game (at the time of Brawl); he gets them. Same with characters not yet released like Roy and Greninja.

Are you actually suggesting Sora and RAYMAN of all characters is more popular than the JRPG poster boy and Final Fantasy Icon Cloud?

They aren't even close to Cloud 's level, even with this console divide, which isn't nearly as major as you think. Trust me.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Are you actually suggesting Sora and RAYMAN of all characters is more popular than the JRPG poster boy and Final Fantasy Icon Cloud?

They aren't even close to Cloud 's level, even with this console divide, which isn't nearly as major as you think. Trust me.

I could see Sora being more popular than Cloud with certain groups. I know KH fans with little to no FF experience. Overall though it's a stretch to say Sora is more popular.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys, remember that Smash 6 Job-listing?

You that one that popped up back in 2014, do you think that in reality that may be Smash Switch all along?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hey guys, remember that Smash 6 Job-listing?

You that one that popped up back in 2014, do you think that in reality that may be Smash Switch all along?

Eh, not really. Feels like it it's irrelevant now.

I could see Sora being more popular than Cloud with certain groups. I know KH fans with little to no FF experience. Overall though it's a stretch to say Sora is more popular.

I wouldn't call it a stretch. The problem is for many Cloud is a bit more niche at the time. He had small cameos but no major games. Sora was a very active character at the time, so...

Pac-Man being Pac-Man is enough to suggest there's more Pac-Man coming, even if it's just part of a compilation.

Though around the time of Smash there were the Ghostly Adventure games and Pac-Man Museum. Pac-Man Museum was meant to come to Nintendo consoles before being cancelled. After Smash there was Pac-Man 256 and Championship Edition 2.

Ah, my bad. I thought no games were coming around at the time. I wouldn't say "just because Pac-Man", though. I'm going with "were games coming to Nintendo soon?" to show that the advertisement argument is faulty. Either they happened soon or not. Don't get me wrong, I get your point, but I couldn't think of any games announced or coming out after 4 regular that would apply to this statement at the time I made it.

In a twist, I'm catching up on Ghostly Adventures on Netflix. I saw the first season ages ago. It's not really great, mediocre at most. I do like that the ghosts and characters have unique designs, which is actually a good idea in itself. Pac-Man(who is a different character from the original Pac-Man, who is his father) looking different can put people off. But then again, besides who he is exactly(Paccy), he was based upon a different design, a remade one. Considering how odd the show is, it's probably better it isn't the normal Pac-Man too.

 

[Rizen]

...That's not how advertisement works. Like, at all. Honestly, you're looking for something that simply does not exist. Let it go, man.

Interjecting characters into popular content they didn't originate is advertising. DC's justice league and Marvel's avengers push unpopular heroes that way. It happens all the time. Product placement in movies is another big example. People see something and subconsciously they want it. Expanding out of the usual markets and brand recognition are the heart of advertising.

Lastly, the thing about Sakurai's "logic" is that he doesn't look at things as much from a business perspective as an "how will this be interesting" way.

That's exactly what Sakurai logic is. He includes what interests him above all other factors.

Are you actually suggesting Sora and RAYMAN of all characters is more popular than the JRPG poster boy and Final Fantasy Icon Cloud?

They aren't even close to Cloud 's level, even with this console divide, which isn't nearly as major as you think. Trust me.

Cloud is very popular for sure, he's been in arcade style fighters, KH, other FF spinoffs, and a feature length movie. Sora's really popular too though; he's crossed the anime barrier and gotten Disney fans. Disney is HUGE. Sora's the KH poster boy while FF as a series has many different world and characters completely separate from the FFVII world. Sora's also been a main character in more recent games. He probably out-sells Cloud.

TBH there's no concrete way to say who's more popular but there is a good case for Sora.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Interjecting characters into popular content they didn't originate is advertising. DC's justice league and Marvel's avengers push unpopular heroes that way. It happens all the time. Product placement in movies is another big example. People see something and subconsciously they want it. Expanding out of the usual markets and brand recognition are the heart of advertising.

That's exactly what Sakurai logic is. He includes what interests him above all other factors.

Cloud is very popular for sure, he's been in arcade style fighters, KH, other FF spinoffs, and a feature length movie. Sora's really popular too though; he's crossed the anime barrier and gotten Disney fans. Disney is HUGE. Sora's the KH poster boy while FF as a series has many different world and characters completely separate from the FFVII world. Sora's also been a main character in more recent games. He probably out-sells Cloud.

TBH there's no concrete way to say who's more popular but there is a good case for Sora.

Advertising assumes there is a product to sell

What product is Cloud in?

 

[Deleted member]

Some forget that while Pac-Man is, well, Pac-Man, Sakurai wasn't going to include Pac-Man if he was forced to use the Ghostly Adventures design. I would've added Pac-Man regardless, but it's interesting to think about.

Now... Cloud...
He was added because Final Fantasy is a highly popular series, and I bet Final Fantasy was among one of the most requested series on the ballet. He did consider Terra and Bartz, but Cloud is easily the most popular FF character. We're talking about the game that pretty much pushed the PlayStation even further than the Nintendo 64 and it sold more than previous FF games. Cloud not only represents Final Fantasy, but JRPGs as a whole and it made the genre more popular than it was before. After FF7, there was a large influx of RPG games on the PS1, making it the go-to system for RPG games.
As much as I love Terra and FF6, I can't help but admit she isn't as known as Cloud. Her announcement would've left far less impact than Cloud's announcement.
Cloud, intentionally or not, advertises Final Fantasy VII Remake in a way just from his inclusion alone, but I don't think Cloud was included as an advertisement solely. He's a gaming icon and to be treated less than that would be silly.

 

[powerprotoman]

Advertising assumes there is a product to sell

What product is Cloud in?

ff7 remake, youll find that 5 months after that got anoucned cloud got revealed for smash

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

ff7 remake, youll find that 5 months after that got anoucned cloud got revealed for smash

Oh yeah, I forgot that existed.

I'd still rather have Terra regardless. I know FFVI is less popular, but I like her character a lot more.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Interjecting characters into popular content they didn't originate is advertising. DC's justice league and Marvel's avengers push unpopular heroes that way. It happens all the time. Product placement in movies is another big example. People see something and subconsciously they want it. Expanding out of the usual markets and brand recognition are the heart of advertising.

No, that's not what advertising is at all. It's to clearly sell another product. There was zero products to advertise with Cloud. He can't be an advertisement.

That's exactly what Sakurai logic is. He includes what interests him above all other factors.

Not true either. He didn't add Corrin because it interested him alone. The factor that got him in was actually that he couldn't add him beyond this moment, because Fates would no longer be able to be advertised.

You're still simplifying it way too much. Pac-Man didn't interest him either and is why he didn't get in Brawl, who Miyamoto suggested first. He had to be given lots of ideas by Bamco to even include the character. Some characters he finds on his own, some he gets suggestions, some he just happens to see and goes with it.

Overall, you're grasping at a lot of straws for your arguments. You should let some of this stuff go. You're just blatantly wrong about a lot of it.

 

[powerprotoman]

Oh yeah, I forgot that existed.

I'd still rather have Terra regardless. I know FFVI is less popular, but I like her character a lot more.

to be honest id rather have gilgamesh, you cant tell me he wouldnt be the perfect rep for final fantasy being the character in the most games not named cid

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, not really. Feels like it it's irrelevant now.

Question: Why do you think it's irrelevant?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Also, it's hard for Cloud to sell FF7r when he's not remotely designed around it, the remake isn't given promotion at all based around his Smash reveal, it's not on Switch either, and it took 5 months for him to get a Smash reveal. If it was remotely connected, they would've actually shown it in some way. Like revealing both really freaking close to each other, not a half a year apart, Cloud having a costume that was clearly his latest design, straight references to the new game(which, btw, wasn't coming out for a super long time).

One thing people forget is that if they're straight-out advertising a game, they want to do when it's close to release, otherwise people won't really care about that game and the DLC itself together. Cloud's addition just doesn't show any advertising elements at all. He's just the most notable protagonist, and that's all there is to it.

Question: Why do you think it's irrelevant?

If it was still relevant, we would've heard something by now. It could be relevant if they mention when the game started development, but the longer we wait on a reveal, the less something that happened a severely long time ago would be relevant to it.

 

[Rizen]

No, that's not what advertising is at all. It's to clearly sell another product. There was zero products to advertise with Cloud. He can't be an advertisement.

Whatever. Believe what you want.

I'm going to go play my Sony Play Station 4, which I bought instead of the Nintendo Switch so I could play games like the FFVII remake. Then maybe I'll watch Advent Children on my old PS2, which I bought so I could play the original FFVII. Then maybe I'll get a PSP and play Crisis Core.
I'm joking. Advent Children was terrible; I wouldn't watch it again.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

to be honest id rather have gilgamesh, you cant tell me he wouldnt be the perfect rep for final fantasy being the character in the most games not named cid

Has he been in more games than Mog?

 

[powerprotoman]

had a dream where about a nintendo direct thats started with smash bros for switch news, the only thing i can remember was captain falcon and ryu were fighting in the streets of tokyo, the camera then cut to the feet of a man in a suit it pans up and we see who it is and their response to the fight going down is as such

Kazuma kiryu shakes down the competiton

 

[Z25]

Cloud was obviously added to promote his amiibo. Nintendo ran out of ideas for new amiibo so they made ones for various third parties. Square was so impressed they added him to smash to promote the figure obviously

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I was just called an SJW Beta Male for thinking men should be held up to their own convictions.

 

[powerprotoman]

Has he been in more games than Mog?

ya know on second thought gilgamesh is the most reocurring character in final fantasy because unlike cid or mog its almost always the same guy

 

[Chrono.]

I beat Mario Odyssey. Fantastic game, I can't really say anything else that hasn't already been said. But I will say that the final confrontation with Bowser has been the only time I wasn't underwhelmed by him.

I dunno, I always liked how some characters were put into teams across franchises, and how some characters were solo.
If all the characters were in dual teams and locked to their home company, it'd be a lot more bland, IMO.

Also, I quite like the way X Zone 2 plays.

The teams are nice, so is the interactions. I just find it bland and repetitive to play.

 

[ChikoLad]

oh no it's smash semantics season again

Meanwhile, I found the real reason why Sonic disappeared for six months in Sonic Forces, via r/sonicthehedgehog.

Spoiler

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

oh no it's smash semantics season again

Meanwhile, I found the real reason why Sonic disappeared for six months in Sonic Forces, via r/sonicthehedgehog.

Spoiler

Is it bad I heard that in Sonics voice?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Is it bad I heard that in Sonics voice?

I'm not sure what Sonic's current voice is

I heard it in like Sonic's adventure voice

 

[ChikoLad]

Is it bad I heard that in Sonics voice?

I think it's impossible not to hear it in his voice.

 

[Ivander]

Well of course, Fire Emblem Heroes: Shadows of Valentia is the best Fire Emblem game. Certainly better than it's predecessor Fire Emblem Heroes. Cause that game... 7.8/10 Too much horses.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well of course, Fire Emblem Heroes: Shadows of Valentia is the best Fire Emblem game. Certainly better than it's predecessor Fire Emblem Heroes. Cause that game... 7.8/10 Too much horses.

Dammit I was gonna post this but I was the last poster.

Nice to see it there, as well as "Fire Emblem Echoes" in Best Handheld game though.

 

[Chrono.]

Man, as far as the GOTY nominees go, Persona 5 really feels like it doesn't belong there.

 

[Deleted member]

Well of course, Fire Emblem Heroes: Shadows of Valentia is the best Fire Emblem game. Certainly better than it's predecessor Fire Emblem Heroes. Cause that game... 7.8/10 Too much horses.

I just think they were too lazy with Shadows of Valentia, it being a sequel and a.
Like, in Heroes you had these two twins called Xander and Camus and then in SoV they just added another one called Zeke and I'm like??? I didn't even get the Mysterious Man back(and he was a main villain in Heroes) but apparently we need another Wonder Twin :/

 

[powerprotoman]

Man, as far as the GOTY nominees go, Persona 5 really feels like it doesn't belong there.

nah it belongs there, it was my game of the year uptill odysse (breath of the wild was lacking in a few areas)

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Man, as far as the GOTY nominees go, Persona 5 really feels like it doesn't belong there.

Oh no no P5 so belongs there, for sure

 

[Schnee117]

> Looks at GotY nominees
> " PUBG"
> Still in Early Access and doesn't leave until it after The Game Awards
> Mixed Reviews on Steam

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

For GOTY , it could go to Zelda, Mario or P5 but I love all 3 of those games so whoever wins, Im happy

As long as it isnt the game still in early access