Social NintenZone Social 4 - Bring It In, Guys!

[Coricus]

Remember when Shovel Knight was super likely for Smash?

I don't either.

Do I remember when he was likely? No.

Do I remember when a large chunk of the community insisted he was a lock despite that? Yes.


I never really got the whole "indie reps" thing. In my eyes they're just like any other third party character, except their franchises are usually are on the lower end sales wise on that scale. "Indie" just seems like some kind of high-culture distinction in the same sense as buying organic or talking about obscure types of cheese; there's some quality differences in how they're made and it gives a certain status, but at the end of the day the supermarket is probably just stocking factory chickens and Velveeta instead. If one actually won the Ballot then they'd probably be just as fair game as Bayo was, but aside from that I can't entirely picture it.

That isn't to say that they're bad characters, just that I don't think being indie puts them on a pedestal above other third party characters. They likely have the same chances as any other third party character with a decent Nintendo presence and a similar level of sales, and with so many incredibly popular franchises out there that might not be enough.

There was the whole Shovel Knight Amiibo thing that piled fuel on the fire due to a misunderstanding, though.

Ironically I think he has a slightly better chance now then he did back then now that his game is out in Japan. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a trophy cameo, considering that Nintendo themselves handled the publishing in Japan. Not that I ever thought his chances of becoming playable were that great, though.

Trophy cameo I can see though, considering that Rayman and that one Runner guy got them. Since Shovel Knight got an Amiibo, getting a trophy does at least seem possible. Yacht Club Games might have to make it themselves or get someone else to make it for them and send it over if they want one, though.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

In the meantime, let's enjoy this weirdness.

When I look at Knuckles, Im only reminded of Woolie from TBFP

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't know about you, but I'm still in the camp that believes the possibility an indie fighter in Smash is mediocre (trophies or not).

And this is coming from someone who doesn't mind Shovel Knight at all.

I agree, but the idea is neat.

Though at least BitTrip guy was a trophy.

Speaking of Dragon Ball, I wish they made another RPG of it. Not like Legacy of Goku but like those old SNES games and Attack of the Sayains.

It would be really fun especially having the movies be like side quest and having various different dialogue or events if you keep a character alive or they die.

Like Piccolo and Tien being alive during the Frieza arc and Goku having an impact in the Android/Cell arc

Another game like Attack of the Saiyans but focusing on the entirety of DBZ would be killer. I'd also be happy with a Platinum styled action game for DBZ as well. Seems like a good fit, but the only 3-D action game in recent years was DBZ Sagas of all things.

This actually upsets me because it has Sonic dressed as Kenshiro and he's saying ORA, MUDA & DORA instead of ATATATATATA.

JoJo can ruin everything even the thing that it rips off

The lack of ATATATATATATATA is lame. But I do like JoJo.

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

Speaking of Dragon Ball, I wish they made another RPG of it. Not like Legacy of Goku but like those old SNES games and Attack of the Sayains.

It would be really fun especially having the movies be like side quest and having various different dialogue or events if you keep a character alive or they die.

Like Piccolo and Tien being alive during the Frieza arc and Goku having an impact in the Android/Cell arc

Well, Dragon Ball Fusions exists.

 

[Knight Dude]

Also, over 9000 posts. Clearly I use this site too much.

Spoiler

There's always time a classic, I guess.

 

[Mythra]

Tapu Bulu you dingaling; I already paralyzed you, lowered your Attack 6 stages, left you with 1HP and wasted 2 PokéBalls, 13 Dusk Balls and 11 Timer Balls. Just give up plz.

 

[Champ Gold]

Well, Dragon Ball Fusions exists.

That's more of an AU game than one on the normal timeline

When I look at Knuckles, Im only reminded of Woolie from TBFP

Because Knuckles is based on Jamaica and Woolie is from there

Also, over 9000 posts. Clearly I use this site too much.

Spoiler

There's always time a classic, I guess.

Others to the manga proving everyone wrong and DB Kai, it's now only 8000 and only days 9000 to make a joke.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Because Knuckles is based on Jamaica and Woolie is from there

Woolie lived in Grenada but hes from Canada lol

 

[Deleted member]

In the meantime, let's enjoy this weirdness.

Translator's note: ORA means ORA

That's more of an AU game than one on the normal timeline



Because Knuckles is based on Jamaica and Woolie is from there

Others to the manga proving everyone wrong and DB Kai, it's now only 8000 and only days 9000 to make a joke.

It was always 8000 in other countries, the US dub is the only one that got it wrong for whatever reason

 

[redfeatherraven]

In the meantime, let's enjoy this weirdness.

And then, in one instant, Red realized he stopped following the Archie comics at precisely the right time.

I never really got the whole "indie reps" thing. In my eyes they're just like any other third party character, except their franchises are usually are on the lower end sales wise on that scale. "Indie" just seems like some kind of high-culture distinction in the same sense as buying organic or talking about obscure types of cheese; there's some quality differences in how they're made and it gives a certain status, but at the end of the day the supermarket is probably just stocking factory chickens and Velveeta instead.

The big draw of indie titles is the ability, and thus the propensity, to take risks that other companies wouldn't greenlight, deeming them to be poor performers and thus a poor return on investment. This has become more and more pronounced as the gaming industry has expanded, along with their budgets, profits, and need for safe bets to use the latter to recoup the former.

Indie titles are far likelier to fail than succeed, partly by virtue of a flooded market and reduced access to marketing, partly because sometimes risks don't work. But when they do work they tend to stand out in a market that seems otherwise similar across most of the board.

That all said, Nintendo platforms have some caveats in this regard, as many of their current core franchises are unique compared to the rest of the console crowd, and most make at least some tweaks to the formula with new releases to keep it fresh. The reason that Shovel Knight and Shantae, in particular, seem less like breaths of fresh air on a Nintendo console is because high-quality, polished, and truly AAA 2D platformers have existed in their ecosystem in some form or another for the last two generations - but on other consoles they've quite nearly died off entirely, replaced mostly with action games, epic RPGs, and first- or third-person shooters.

Playable characters is perhaps something of a stretch (Shantae has a long history with Ninty, but WayForward's games have almost always been niche up until Pirate's Curse, and thought Yacht Club did reach out further on Wii U than they did on other platforms, Shovel Knight may still not warrant it yet) but I'd definitely say they matter enough for some representation. Especially because a lot of the goodwill Nintendo got after their lackluster first party support for the Wii U was increased exposure and love for (at least some) indie titles.

Anyway let's dial back the gab from my corner. None of this is news here anyway.

Tapu Bulu you dingaling; I already paralyzed you, lowered your Attack 6 stages, left you with 1HP and wasted 2 PokéBalls, 13 Dusk Balls and 11 Timer Balls. Just give up plz.

Tapu Koko took me 45 min, 20 Ultras, more healing items than I'm willing to admit, and Eevee bites.

I think they're trying to test our restraint to not murder them in frustration.

that one Runner guy

BitTrip guy

CommanderVideo.

What's wrong with y'all.

 

[Knight Dude]

And then, in one instant, Red realized he stopped following the Archie comics at precisely the right time.


The big draw of indie titles is the ability, and thus the propensity, to take risks that other companies wouldn't greenlight, deeming them to be poor performers and thus a poor return on investment. This has become more and more pronounced as the gaming industry has expanded, along with their budgets, profits, and need for safe bets to use the latter to recoup the former.

Indie titles are far likelier to fail than succeed, partly by virtue of a flooded market and reduced access to marketing, partly because sometimes risks don't work. But when they do work they tend to stand out in a market that seems otherwise similar across most of the board.

That all said, Nintendo platforms have some caveats in this regard, as many of their current core franchises are unique compared to the rest of the console crowd, and most make at least some tweaks to the formula with new releases to keep it fresh. The reason that Shovel Knight and Shantae, in particular, seem less like breaths of fresh air on a Nintendo console is because high-quality, polished, and truly AAA 2D platformers have existed in their ecosystem in some form or another for the last two generations - but on other consoles they've quite nearly died off entirely, replaced mostly with action games, epic RPGs, and first- or third-person shooters.

Playable characters is perhaps something of a stretch (Shantae has a long history with Ninty, but WayForward's games have almost always been niche up until Pirate's Curse, and thought Yacht Club did reach out further on Wii U than they did on other platforms, Shovel Knight may still not warrant it yet) but I'd definitely say they matter enough for some representation. Especially because a lot of the goodwill Nintendo got after their lackluster first party support for the Wii U was increased exposure and love for (at least some) indie titles.

Anyway let's dial back the gab from my corner. None of this is news here anyway.


Tapu Koko took me 45 min, 20 Ultras, more healing items than I'm willing to admit, and Eevee bites.

I think they're trying to test our restraint to not murder them in frustration.



CommanderVideo.

What's wrong with y'all.

You should read the Mega Man Archie comic stuff. It's pretty good.

And yeah, don't know why I didn't remember Commander Video, by bad.

 

[Opossum]

I have a controversial Smash opinion.

Spoiler

I think Shovel Knight is a lot more likely to get into the Smash 4 Switch port than K. Rool.

 

[Deleted member]

I never really got the whole "indie reps" thing. In my eyes they're just like any other third party character, except their franchises are usually are on the lower end sales wise on that scale. "Indie" just seems like some kind of high-culture distinction in the same sense as buying organic or talking about obscure types of cheese; there's some quality differences in how they're made and it gives a certain status, but at the end of the day the supermarket is probably just stocking factory chickens and Velveeta instead. If one actually won the Ballot then they'd probably be just as fair game as Bayo was, but aside from that I can't entirely picture it.

That isn't to say that they're bad characters, just that I don't think being indie puts them on a pedestal above other third party characters. They likely have the same chances as any other third party character with a decent Nintendo presence and a similar level of sales, and with so many incredibly popular franchises out there that might not be enough.

There was the whole Shovel Knight Amiibo thing that piled fuel on the fire due to a misunderstanding, though.

You got....somewhat the right idea.
There really is no distinction between an "Indie" character and other 3rd Party characters. They are treated just the same.
So while being "Indie" doesn't put them on a pedestal above other 3rd Party characters, it doesn't put them lower either.

At this point, I think people overthink what makes a 3rd Party character "likely" or "unlikely".
People like to try to act like there's certain "qualifications" they have to have in order to be likely or unlikely, but it's just hogwash.

Snake? Creator request.
Sonic? Fan demand/popularity.
Mega Man? Fan demand/popularity.
Pac-Man? Pretty much a "thank-you" for Namco-Bandai's cooperation. (NOTE: The Namco-Bandai team themselves were surprised to hear Pac-Man was in the game.)
Ryu? Fan demand/popularity....apparently. Sakurai said he had a grasp on Lucas', Roy's, and Ryu's popularity/demand when he was working on them before the Ballot, so....
Cloud? Fan demand/popularity.
Bayonetta? Fan demand/popularity, obviously.

See the pattern? The guests we have had now were not sought out over their high Nintendo presence or level of sales, but rather because they were popular fan requests (outside of Snake and Pac-Man, who were special cases).

That's not to say that just being a popular fan request makes a character likely to be in Smash, because there are unknown factors past the consideration stage. It just makes them likely to be considered.
Let's say "Mr. Red" is a 3rd Party character with a rather small franchise that had...."ok" sales but has massive support for Smash, and "Mr. Blue" is a 3rd Party character with a huge franchise that's among the Top 5 best-selling franchises of all time but has barely any Smash support from his fanbase. "Mr. Red" is more likely to be given consideration than "Mr. Blue" is.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a controversial Smash opinion.

Spoiler

I think Shovel Knight is a lot more likely to get into the Smash 4 Switch port than K. Rool.

I think the opposite, but I can at least understand why someone would have that opinion. Barring a trophy cameo and that infamous Mii costume, K. Rool hasn't appeared in a game in eight years, while Shovel Knight is still fairly recent.

 

[Kurri ★]

That's more of an AU game than one on the normal timeline



Because Knuckles is based on Jamaica and Woolie is from there

Others to the manga proving everyone wrong and DB Kai, it's now only 8000 and only days 9000 to make a joke.

I'm assuming some of the comparisons are fake, especially Quebecoise one, but it's cool hearing how much better the voice actors got over time.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Speaking of Dragon Ball Z, who else cheered when Blue Popo got assimilated by the real Popo we all knew and loved?

 

[redfeatherraven]

You should read the Mega Man Archie comic stuff. It's pretty good.

And yeah, don't know why I didn't remember Commander Video, by bad.

Tempting, but I've already cleared my schedule for Moon and nutcracker practice.

And it is your bad, you heathen.
Nah but really I'm probably the only one here who remembered.

I have a controversial Smash opinion.

Spoiler

I think Shovel Knight is a lot more likely to get into the Smash 4 Switch port than K. Rool.

I have one too.

Spoiler

You're right.

Speaking of Dragon Ball Z, who else cheered when Blue Popo got assimilated by the real Popo we all knew and loved?

Me, as of approximately 30 seconds ago.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Well, my premium is gone now. What's new here?

 

[praline]

You got....somewhat the right idea.
There really is no distinction between an "Indie" character and other 3rd Party characters. They are treated just the same.
So while being "Indie" doesn't put them on a pedestal above other 3rd Party characters, it doesn't put them lower either.

At this point, I think people overthink what makes a 3rd Party character "likely" or "unlikely".
People like to try to act like there's certain "qualifications" they have to have in order to be likely or unlikely, but it's just hogwash.

Snake? Creator request.
Sonic? Fan demand/popularity.
Mega Man? Fan demand/popularity.
Pac-Man? Pretty much a "thank-you" for Namco-Bandai's cooperation. (NOTE: The Namco-Bandai team themselves were surprised to hear Pac-Man was in the game.)
Ryu? Fan demand/popularity....apparently. Sakurai said he had a grasp on Lucas', Roy's, and Ryu's popularity/demand when he was working on them before the Ballot, so....
Cloud? Fan demand/popularity.
Bayonetta? Fan demand/popularity, obviously.

See the pattern? The guests we have had now were not sought out over their high Nintendo presence or level of sales, but rather because they were popular fan requests (outside of Snake and Pac-Man, who were special cases).

That's not to say that just being a popular fan request makes a character likely to be in Smash, because there are unknown factors past the consideration stage. It just makes them likely to be considered.
Let's say "Mr. Red" is a 3rd Party character with a rather small franchise that had...."ok" sales but has massive support for Smash, and "Mr. Blue" is a 3rd Party character with a huge franchise that's among the Top 5 best-selling franchises of all time but has barely any Smash support from his fanbase. "Mr. Red" is more likely to be given consideration than "Mr. Blue" is.

And then "Mr. Blue" is added and the vocal minority is all pissy about it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

What's new here?

Well pretty much just this

Well, my premium is gone now.

Things never change here anyway

 

[Deleted member]

And then "Mr. Blue" is added and the vocal minority is all pissy about it.

Incorrect. It would be neither "Mr. Red" or "Mr. Blue" making the cut.

Your scenario would only happen with 1st Party characters.

 

[Curious Villager]

Does Layton count as one f those popular picks?

Because I know a lot of people wanted Layton as well, not just people on this site

If it counts for something. Level-5 made a poll once to what other collaborations fans would like to see Layton appear in, one of the notably requested series for him to crossover with was Smash. So at the very least, the company itself is aware that Layton is wanted for Smash.

Now whether that means much in terms of his chances, I don't know. Guess the creator might need to approach Sakurai for that...

 

[Wario Bros.]

I have a controversial Smash opinion.

Spoiler

I think Shovel Knight is a lot more likely to get into the Smash 4 Switch port than K. Rool.

For Smash Switch: I can somewhat see.

For Smash 5: Don't agree.

 

[Chrono.]

Speaking of Dragon Ball, I wish they made another RPG of it. Not like Legacy of Goku but like those old SNES games and Attack of the Sayains.

It would be really fun especially having the movies be like side quest and having various different dialogue or events if you keep a character alive or they die.

Like Piccolo and Tien being alive during the Frieza arc and Goku having an impact in the Android/Cell arc

Dragon Ball Fusions is an RPG though it's got a new story.

 

[Coricus]

And then "Mr. Blue" is added and the vocal minority is all pissy about it.

Cloud is the perfect example of someone who would come off as Mr. Blue to our echo chamber but actually turn out to have more support than he was given credit for, come to think of it.

Nobody took his supporters seriously, so no one thought he actually stood a chance.

That's probably something to think about with character support. The same thing happened to a lesser extent with Bayo, too, although she's a Ms. Red played straight.

People may think certain characters stand the best chance, but then others turn out to be more supported and simply pushed out of the community by all the detractors and left to bubble under the surface in silence.

 

[praline]

So I thought of an ability for my Pokemon game. "Horrify." It's a special attack version of Intimidate.

 

[Deleted member]

People may think certain characters stand the best chance, but then others turn out to be more supported and simply pushed out of the community by all the detractors and left to bubble under the surface in silence.

Best example?
Krystal vs. Wolf in Brawl.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

I still hope that shovel knight gets in.I know a lot of people are opposed to him(especially after a certain rumor a year ago) but i feel that his moveset and characters fits the smash mold perfectly

 

[Fenriraga]

One year later, and we still have people crying foul over the ballot.

Yep, this is Smashboards alright.

I still hope that shovel knight gets in.I know a lot of people are opposed to him(especially after a certain rumor a year ago) but i feel that his moveset and characters fits the smash mold perfectly

I'd still take Shantae over SK, even though SK is the more likely candidate. But I don't doubt he'd be pretty neat.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

One year later, and we still having people whining about other people's opinions. Strange, isn't it?

 

[Coricus]

One year later, and we still have people crying foul over the ballot.

Yep, this is Smashboards alright.

If anyone ever asks why we can't have nice things, all that it would take to answer them is to point out how the Ballot was reacted to.

It doesn't even matter the "we." Smash fans, gamers, the human race as a whole. . .

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

One year later, and we still having people whining about other people's opinions. Strange, isn't it?

And one year later, Paper Mario will never return to its original roots.

 

[Deleted member]

Wandering Son has just made my "Purest of the purest Cinnamon Rolls that are too pure for this world in anime and have done nothing wrong yet still suffer constantly because this world is a cruel one but it's okay hecause they end up living happy lifes" list bigger:
-Marika Aoki(Bokura no Hentai)
-Literally the entire main Mamodo cast of Zatch Bell except that one edgelord
-Madoka Kaname(Madoka Magica)
-Edogawa Ranpo(Bungou Stray Dogs) like, damn, read the novels
-Shuuichi Nitori(Wandering Son)

One episode left, I hope this doesn't make me cry because it already played with my emotions enough

 

[IceBreakerXY]

I have a controversial Smash opinion.

Spoiler

I think Shovel Knight is a lot more likely to get into the Smash 4 Switch port than K. Rool.

Spoiler

I dont feel K. Rool is ever likely to get into smash but thats an unpopular opinion .

Tbh i wanna see more newer characters get into smash like we did with smash 4.Inkling,Elma,linkle or hell even Itsuki( #FE) will bring me more hype than vets or characters we havent seen in years such as k rool,issac or geno.I actually want characters like mike jones,isaac,saki in smash but i feel smash 4 proved that newer characters are just as profitable as older ones

 

[Coricus]

One year later, and we still having people whining about other people's opinions. Strange, isn't it?

Well, like begets like.

As long as people feel like something negative is being implied about their own opinions by the way other people are treating their preferences, the war will be waged ever onward.

You may know everything I'm going to complain about, but that's not going to help you since I know everything you're going to complain about!

 

[Depressed Gengar]

And one year later, Paper Mario will never return to its original roots.

Yep, Paper Mario will never go back to the tree that he once was. Nor will any of the other Paper Mushroom Kingdom residents.
Haha intentionally bad joke haha

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Yep, Paper Mario will never go back to the tree that he once was. Nor will any of the other Paper Mushroom Kingdom residents.
Haha intentionally bad joke haha

Hooray, copy and paste Toads for everyone! He gets a Toad, she gets a Toad, everyone gets Toads (I do not mean "those toads", hippies)!

 

[Champ Gold]

I realize our opinions about Smash were irrelevant when appeared


Because no matter what we speculated and what I believed, none of us saw this coming and we had to ask why. Same with .

Hell, this even works for . Before the leaks, we gave him little to no chance because of some mistranslation of Sakurai from an old interview and the assumption that we can't have another character from the same third party company as another .

Now, even then a lot can change and some things will stay the same but we should know that we can't put the same expectations we had before into now because it seems so flat.

Spoiler

However my opinion of only Japanese Third Party characters allowed is somewhat supported until a change is happening.

It can happen but I'll never see it come to fruition in the mean time until there's a company that can offer up a character that is perfectly welcoming to the Smash series and has had a home there for years (as of right now, Rayman is the only viable option unless Square-Enix finally gives us Lara Croft)

 

[MF Viewtiful]

Another day, another set of fightcade casuals from yours truly. This time including Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter!!!

 

[Coricus]

Hooray, copy and paste Toads for everyone! He gets a Toad, she gets a Toad, everyone gets Toads (I do not mean "those toads", hippies)!

But Smash won't get a Toad, because Toads are the Chrom of Mario Bros.

*squeaky voice* "I guess I'll get my chance. . .another day."

NO, YOU'LL GET IT TODAY! *whips a Toad out from under Peach's dress*