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Social NintenZone Social 4 - Bring It In, Guys!

When, if ever, do you plan on buying the Switch?

  • At launch

    Votes: 40 36.0%
  • Late spring/summer

    Votes: 25 22.5%
  • During the fall/holidays

    Votes: 17 15.3%
  • Sometime after 2017

    Votes: 7 6.3%
  • Not until [insert game here] is released

    Votes: 20 18.0%
  • I'm not getting that bucket of turds!!

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • Total voters
    111
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A shotoclone is defined as having a projectile and a shoryuken/dragon punch.
That applies to Zero too. Megaman had more than enough moves to consider him not a shoto clone. And Shoto clones also have a Tatsumaki, which Megaman does not have. Projectile and anti air isn't clone worthy enough, A LOT of characters have moves like that and aren't shoto clones. That'd be like saying the avatar I have on right now(Igniz) is a shoto clone because he has a projectile and a shoryuken-like anti air. :p You have to consider the whole move set. If they put him in as he is I'd doubt anyone would complain about him being a shoto clone. What you're describing is pretty much unspecific, all he really has is the shoryuken motion from Ryu, that's it. And why wouldn't Megaman use projectiles?

MegaMan specifically fit this mold, although keep in mind they basically said they didn't want to make him unique at all; "If we were to adapt the original Mega Man character into a fighting game he would have to have a lot more extra moves and abilities, and that would then create a different Mega Man entirely. You couldn’t retain his original character as he is. So we looked into other Mega Mans, and decided that Zero had the best list of moves already in existence when it comes to fitting into a fighting game." http://spong.com/feature/10110305/Interview-Marvel-vs-Capcom-3-Producer-Ryota-Niitsuma The problem, obviously, with this logic, is that they already had clones in the games and could've just still kept him in while putting Zero in. Keep in mind they cancelled Legends 3 not long before this announcement of MegaMan not being in MvC3 came up, which of course enraged fans. Awful timing. Now, there is some leap of logic here with how people interpret this. They call them lazy for not doing this. One factor is they only intended one MegaMan series slot in. Now, that's fair enough and they wanted more uniqueness. But that stops holding water when they added Tron later, meaning they clearly weren't going to follow that. They had demand for 2 characters from the MM series. Why even stop at 1? Why not just put MegaMan in, even if he's not super unique. That's all people want, the character. This got worse when a realization of the X costume for Zero actually being X himself came into play. Meaning they literally gutted(literally) one of the most popular additions for a crossover character(X topped a fan poll no less) when they could've done... more than that. I.E. Add MegaMan in as a crossover variation of X and his own moves while not entirely ruining his old gameplay. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/MarvelVsCapcom3 Some of that is covered in this link. I haven't found better sources for some of what I said, though, so apologies.

What is hilarious is that SSB fixed the MegaMan problem and gave us a unique one that still retained some of the MvC moveset. Albeit, I think the idea of putting in X with a more unique moveset would've made the most sense at this point. The reason is because it covers what people want "a literal MegaMan" while still updating him. They can certainly upgrade classic MegaMan, but completely changing him is a poor idea in itself. He needs to retain some moves. The slide, the dragon punch, his classic Mega Buster(mainly the closest thing to what made him a shotoclone to begin with).
Zero's been established to be far more favored than X when it comes to virtually every crossover with an X representative.(In other words, Capcom sees Zero as their Megaman X representative in general.) I never argued about Megaman's uniqueness, I've already established repeatedly that he's not really a clone. My reasoning was more so that he's pretty much dead, especially by that point. And that Zero even before then and after MvC2 was pretty much their primary Megaman representative in general, but people fail to realize that for some reason.

Also, what's hilarious was that SSB Megaman was extremely hyped up yet hardly anyone used him, even at launch. :p

I just don't Megaman(classic especially) is as sacred as people think he is, people treat him like this untouchable object that you must not criticize in any manner. He's sort of like the anti sonic in a way. :p Sonic's okay(popular in fact) to openly bash and admit that he has points of dying, but not MM.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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That applies to Zero too. Megaman had more than enough moves to consider him not a shoto clone. And Shoto clones also have a Tatsumaki, which Megaman does not have. Projectile and anti air isn't clone worthy enough, A LOT of characters have moves like that and aren't shoto clones. That'd be like saying the avatar I have on right now(Igniz) is a shoto clone because he has a projectile and a shoryuken-like anti air. :p You have to consider the whole move set. If they put him in as he is I'd doubt anyone would complain about him being a shoto clone. What you're describing is pretty much unspecific, all he really has is the shoryuken motion from Ryu, that's it. And why wouldn't Megaman use projectiles?
The fact they couldn't make him feel unique enough for their own purposes, yet keep another shotoclone in is pretty annoying to people. And yes, he's a shotoclone. Dragon Punch isn't there "because it's an anti-air" when it comes to being a shotoclone. A shotoclone's dragon punch exists because... it's a dragon punch, a very memorable move. Same with the fireball. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Shotoclone This more defines it as I'm using it. For the record, no, a Hurricane Kick isn't relevant. It's a rushdown attack more specifically, which MegaMan has with his slide. He's loosely one. But so is Zero as well, for the record. It's pretty notable that tons of characters in Capcom are shotoclones or use at leat 2 of the main moves(a rising attack and a fireball). MegaMan also is one in Smash, but he also has more than just the regular shotoclone moves.

Zero's been established to be far more favored than X when it comes to virtually every crossover with an X representative.(In other words, Capcom sees Zero as their Megaman X representative in general.) I never argued about Megaman's uniqueness, I've already established repeatedly that he's not really a clone. My reasoning was more so that he's pretty much dead, especially by that point. And that Zero even before then and after MvC2 was pretty much their primary Megaman representative in general, but people fail to realize that for some reason.
You are missing the point. I was telling you why MegaMan was legit not in MvC3. Because making him unique would completely ruin the character. The problem, again, with that logic is, that leaving him out was even worse for people. The reason he isn't unique is because his main moves happen to be a shotoclone basis(fireball, rising attack, rush attack), but stil had other stuff, which means he was way more unique than the more major shotoclones(I.E. Akuma. And I do like Akuma, so this isn't a knock against him).

The thing is, also, MegaMan will never die in people's eyes as a character because he's a gaming icon. It doesn't matter if his games die, the character is beyond memorable. This is the point I'm making overall, he's still important and always will be. Also, clone =/= shotoclone. You're confusing the term "clone" with the actual archtype of a shotoclone, which is two very very different things. Clones are just "moveset clones", meaning they take the entire moveset, or almost all of it with small differences.

Also, what's hilarious was that SSB Megaman was extremely hyped up yet hardly anyone used him, even at launch. :p
Not that it matters because people wanted him in the game. Some didn't like his interpretation. But they definitely made him about projectiles, which is fairly accurate considering a lot of his abilities are projectile based anyway. I mean, being they used his actual in-game abilities bar his Mega Upper, a literal dragon punch created strictly for Marvel VS Capcom...

I just don't Megaman(classic especially) is as sacred as people think he is, people treat him like this untouchable object that you must not criticize in any manner. He's sort of like the anti sonic in a way. :p Sonic's okay(popular in fact) to openly bash and admit that he has points of dying, but not MM.
Of course not. But his popularity as the main mascot along with Ryu of Capcom is kind of important too. When talking about Capcom, these are their biggest guns. No puns intended. I'm not sure where this bit came from, though. I wasn't bashing or praising the games specifically. Just saying Capcom clearly is trying to ignore them a lot. Sakurai, at least, refuses to ignore such a gaming icon(same with Ryu later on down the line).

For the record, Mario, Luigi, and Dr. Mario are shotoclones too. Just remember, the Tatsumaki isn't the key point, it's about having an attack that rushes down the opponent and can easily trap them. Likewise, keeping in mind I am using a very specific trope definition, that was the least important move. You're confusing "full shotoclone" which is pretty much the entire moveset from Ryu/Ken/Akuma with very tiny differences with the regular usage of shotoclone, which is just "fireball", "dragon punch/rising attack", and sometimes "spinning move". You'd be surprised how few actually talk about pure shotoclones using all moves and not referring to those 3 notable attacks. You should read the full trope article to understand where I'm coming from. I do agree with it, though, since people are being too nitpicky about an archtype of character. Shotoclone is an archtype in this case, not a 100% set of moves that only a tiny slew of characters have. That archtype is everywhere. Smash, MUGEN, even Mortal Kombat has it with Johnny Cage, who surprisingly is the only shotoclones among it. The various ninjas almost get there, but only one cyber ninja has at least a rising attack and a projectile(Sektor). The "teleport punches" the regular ninjas have are side attacks and are very different in their purposes, like not being an anti-air to any degree, and some don't even have proper projectiles. It's very clear they're intended to be similar to the archtype but unique as well. I shouldn't need to explain its usage in tons of other fighting games, even obscure ones like Flying Dragon(the main character Ryuhi even says the attacks). And then there's both Jago and Fulgore from Killer Instinct, along with B. Orchid. But like I said, it's a playstyle archtype. The full moveset is used among few. The main 3 moves that define the archtype is everywhere.
 

FalKoopa

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OctoDad is a wonderful game.
I didn't expect I'd enjoy a awkward physics simulator this much. I'm only past the grocery area so I've still got much to do, but I have no regrets purchasing the game now.

Not to mention, I'm still not over the pun in the title. :laugh:
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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You are missing the point. I was telling you why MegaMan was legit not in MvC3. Because making him unique would completely ruin the character. The problem, again, with that logic is, that leaving him out was even worse for people. The reason he isn't unique is because his main moves happen to be a shotoclone basis(fireball, rising attack, rush attack), but stil had other stuff, which means he was way more unique than the more major shotoclones (I.E. Akuma. And I do like Akuma, so this isn't a knock against him).
Source? Is this explanation actually official?
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Source? Is this explanation actually official?
Yes. I gave the source last page. He couldn't be made unique enough, so was left out. It's why I directly quoted the original exact words earlier. It's easily interpreted as "well, clearly he's just another shotoclone, so why keep him in" to quite a few people. It's why people find it ironic that Akuma is kept in but someone who has the most basic three shotoclone moves(a fireball, rising attack, and rush attack) are left out.

Correction: The Mega Upper originated from the arcade game Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters, which predated MvC1 by a few years.
I keep forgetting that. Still counts as what I said, a dragon punch. I forget if his rush attack(Rush Drill) was in another game specifically first(in the same way, being a major combo move). It's of course the same ideal type of rush attack that the Hurricane Kick is, but that's how many combos works in the Marvel VS Capcom series. Which shouldn't be too surprising, since it fits the main gameplay design. Beat Plane isn't a shotoclone move in any way, but I think it wasn't in MvC first? In the second MvC game, he gains a slide attack, another rush move. And no, I don't mean his dog, Rush. Ironic that his second rush move doesn't involve Rush himself, eh?
 
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I keep forgetting that. Still counts as what I said, a dragon punch. I forget if his rush attack(Rush Drill) was in another game specifically first(in the same way, being a major combo move). It's of course the same ideal type of rush attack that the Hurricane Kick is, but that's how many combos works in the Marvel VS Capcom series. Which shouldn't be too surprising, since it fits the main gameplay design. Beat Plane isn't a shotoclone move in any way, but I think it wasn't in MvC first?
Rush Drill was a scrapped concept from Mega Man 3 (concept art below), whereas Beat Plane was introduced in MvC.

 
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Aurane

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And today's Prick of the the Day award goes to wild Poni Island Riolu for knowing and using Final Gambit to suicide- avoiding capture.

I'll see you in hell, little buddy.
 

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Rush Drill was a scrapped concept from Mega Man 3 (concept art below), whereas Beat Plane was introduced in MvC.

Interesting. I guess it did actually debut as an attack in MvC then?

I love when scrapped stuff gets reused later down the line. Can't think of any other real examples at the moment, but eh.
 

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And today's Prick of the the Day award goes to wild Poni Island Riolu for knowing and using Final Gambit to suicide- avoiding capture.

I'll see you in hell, little buddy.
I'm more worried about the Machamp ride. The story has some twists that left me awestruck. Wtf just happened?!
 

Swamp Sensei

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T.T

Poor lady.

Poor Machamp.

Oh my gosh...

I really like that they put this in the game. Such a small thing and yet it adds so much.
 
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CyberHyperPhoenix

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Yes. I gave the source last page. He couldn't be made unique enough, so was left out. It's why I directly quoted the original exact words earlier. It's easily interpreted as "well, clearly he's just another shotoclone, so why keep him in" to quite a few people. It's why people find it ironic that Akuma is kept in but someone who has the most basic three shotoclone moves(a fireball, rising attack, and rush attack) are left out.
Kinda wish they had put an extra year into the game, maybe we would've gotten both X and Zero in the same game and possibly venom too.
 

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Kinda wish they had put an extra year into the game, maybe we would've gotten both X and Zero in the same game and possibly venom too.
My original mains are MegaMan and Venom as a team, but I will accept X as a substitute for it.

...I even bought a Disney Infinity Venom figure just to put next to my MegaMan amiibo. >.>
 

Aurane

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Caught a Riolu (finally). Now I can get my boy Lucario and kick some ass.

First I'll have to evolve this Riolu. Fortunantly I have been growing Friendly berries up to the 100s, so he'll evolve in after a level up. Then I need to breed it until I get a Female, then evolve that Riolu. Finally, I need to get a Pokémon who can learn and pass Bullet Punch and Ice Punch.

My final Riolu should be Jolly with Bullet Punch and Ice Punch. My Lucario should be:

Lucario@Lucarinite
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Inner Focus → Adaptability
EVs: 252 Attack, 6 Defense, 252 Speed
Moveset: Ice Punch/Close Combat/Bullet Punch/Swords Dance

Dunno if I can achieve this pre bank but I'll try.
 

Chrono.

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I just got to the Aether Foundation in Moon.

I love their themes, most of them sound like stuff you'd hear in a SEGA game (Sonic CD vibes mostly).

They really don't try to hide that Lusamine is shady... Like... At all.

But there is a lot more intrigue than just that which I'm still trying to piece together so it's been fun.
 

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S/M Story spoilers
I kinda wish Aether had one more event to help bridge things.
Like....
After MeleMele: You're invited to A.F. for an introduction to their generous care of pokemon and to be thanked by, say, Wicke "Oh behalf of our busy president, ...." for fighting off Team Skull and helping save some Pokemon on the island.
After Akala: Faba drags you back because Lusamine is interested in you (clearly for your repeated repelling of Team Skull, she might even specifically ask about Gladion to hint to things between them, during this UB-01 breaks out. After repelling it, Lusamine instead of giving away herself, more tamely goes on the line of "If those things are related to Pokemon...did it try to seek out me -- our Paradise for help?"
And after Ula'Ula its when things hit the fan.
 
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@Kabuto Gwen Fine, I'll try to meme it
When you hear Hayato trying to tell someone that you're Kira Yoshikage
22c.png

Also, does anyone know if there's any way to reset EVs in Sun and Moon? I'd like to EV train my maingame team to be able to use them online and in the Battle Tree
 

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@Kabuto Gwen Fine, I'll try to meme it
When you hear Hayato trying to tell someone that you're Kira Yoshikage
View attachment 121373

Also, does anyone know if there's any way to reset EVs in Sun and Moon? I'd like to EV train my maingame team to be able to use them online and in the Battle Tree
PokePelago, kinda.
You can farm the berries that increase friendship but lower EVs of a specific stat.
 
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Looking over my Shiny Crabrawler, I noticed that not only is it Shiny- its also got a good nature in Brave. I really do think these games want me to go Trick Room. Paid a visit to Smogon to see if Crabominable had any Trick Room viability. With a low base Speed of 43, I figured it would, and I found a moveset that uses this Nature.

Crabominable @ Life Orb
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Power-Up Punch / Crabhammer
- Ice Hammer
- Earthquake


Gonna pair this with TR Slowking. Their typings- Water/Psychic and Ice/Fighting- cover each other well.
Mine is Brave and knows these moves...
Can EVs be Reset? Because if they can be, I'll might use it competitively.
 

Aetheri

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Alright....I've played through the E4 a few times now...pretty sure I captured all available legends unless there's some hidden stuff I don't know about...

So I'm gonna go ahead and start my Moon playthrough!! Been anxious to use some more pokemon so what better time than the present!
 
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Alright....I've played through the E4 a few times now...pretty sure I captured all available legends unless there's some hidden stuff I don't know about...

So I'm gonna go ahead and start my Moon playthrough!! Been anxious to use some more pokemon so what better time than the present!
You can re-fight Guzma
His house is in Route 2 and after you talk to him, you go to the Hauoli beachfront and fight him
 
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You can re-fight Guzma
His house is in Route 2 and after you talk to him, you go to the Hauoli beachfront and fight him
You mean I was right in guessing he was the son of the man in that house? Now I feel proud of myself for guessing that
 

Aetheri

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You can re-fight Guzma
His house is in Route 2 and after you talk to him, you go to the Hauoli beachfront and fight him
Yeah...I already did that as well...there's a lot of random stuff I found while exploring in post-game...
 

Aurane

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Today's Island Scan granted me one of my best catches- a Female Adamant Marill with Aqua Jet and Huge Power. Caught it in a Dive Ball.
Pomeg - HP
Kelpsy - ATK
Qualot - Def
Hondew - Sp.Atk
Grepa - Sp.Def
Tamato - Speed
And it's by 10.
Additionally, these berries are found on Route 10. Fly to Malie City, run over to Route 10 and there's a Berry Tree with said berries. Visit here every day to ensure you get one berry of each. Just be aware that Crabrawler may pop up. If you're looking for a particular berry, save in front of the berry pile and the berries will reshuffle each time you reload.
 

Hat N' Clogs

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every single 3d mario game,good games but i think there all overrated
I sorta feel the same way. I get the appeal of Sunshine, but the controls are hard for me to get used to, and nostalgia isn't enough for me to like it. I enjoy the fun level design of Galaxy 1/2, but it's not a favorite of mine. Out of the 3d games though, I personally love 64 and 64DS. I've played the latter for many, many hours.
 

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While I would not call them overrated, team based multiple players games in general are probably not for me. Overwatch was probably the longest I stuck with such a game but I did eventually drop off it. I guess never really liked dealing with teammates, especially random ones. With fighting games, I know it's my fault for my own losses.

I remember a conversion with a friend who plays MOBAs. They described a single match going up to almost a hour in length. I had just got off playing Super Street Fighter II Turbo on Fightcade with another friend of mine. In that same amount of time, we're able to have around 40+ games of action. I already weary of mobas then, but that whole exchange made me go 100% "Nah son".
 

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I sorta feel the same way. I get the appeal of Sunshine, but the controls are hard for me to get used to, and nostalgia isn't enough for me to like it. I enjoy the fun level design of Galaxy 1/2, but it's not a favorite of mine. Out of the 3d games though, I personally love 64 and 64DS. I've played the latter for many, many hours.
Sunshine was a fun concept, but needs more polish and to be remade.

Galaxy was fine for the most part, I'm just too nostalgic for how good Super Mario 64 was, including topnotch controls for its time. But I also don't like da waggle controls in general, so...

Super Mario 64 DS at times can be a slog. The D-Pad does not translate well at all. I like the roster, though. Albeit, Yoshi kind of feels odd when you got the main Toad as a choice, but I think they did it well for what they chose. I mean, I made a fan idea(purely on paper) called Ultra Mario 64 a long time ago. It had a lot more stuff including multiple caps(and yes, a Fire Mario-based one). The actual playable characters were Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Koopa(which was basically Bowser's cousin, but a heroic one). The final battle gave everyone actual specific villains. I don't remember them all besides, in order, Bowser and Dark Luigi. I think Koopa faced off against some kind of Yoshi, possibly Boshi? I don't remember it all. It had 15 new courses as well. Super Mario 64 DS definitely had some similar ideas to mine. The key difference is not having 15 different courses or new caps. Note that it also had a programmed-in Debug Mode.
 
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Currently SOS chaining to try to get a Shiny Oricorio as I'm underleveled to do postgame stuff and I don't even have any idea where to start with so much stuff to do
Does anyone have some sort of list of postgame events to do?
I'm leaving Poni Island and E4 rematches for later though
 

Hat N' Clogs

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Sunshine was a fun concept, but needs more polish and to be remade.

Galaxy was fine for the most part, I'm just too nostalgic for how good Super Mario 64 was, including topnotch controls for its time. But I also don't like da waggle controls in general, so...

Super Mario 64 DS at times can be a slog. The D-Pad does not translate well at all. I like the roster, though. Albeit, Yoshi kind of feels odd when you got the main Toad as a choice, but I think they did it well for what they chose. I mean, I made a fan idea(purely on paper) called Ultra Mario 64 a long time ago. It had a lot more stuff including multiple caps(and yes, a Fire Mario-based one). The actual playable characters were Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Koopa(which was basically Bowser's cousin, but a heroic one). The final battle gave everyone actual specific villains. I don't remember them all besides, in order, Bowser and Dark Luigi. I think Koopa faced off against some kind of Yoshi, possibly Boshi? I don't remember it all. It had 15 new courses as well. Super Mario 64 DS definitely had some similar ideas to mine. The key difference is not having 15 different courses or new caps. Note that it also had a programmed-in Debug Mode.
You do have a good point about the D-pad. For me though, since I played DS only for the longest time, it was never an issue for me. Felt natural to me. But, I see where you're coming from. And yeah, Yoshi as the first playable character felt odd to me. Now that you mention it, I do think having Yoshi first is odd. At the same time, he has the most awkward controls out of the 4 in DS. Luigi was my personal favorite, but playing as Mario and Wario were ok too. It's just...why have Yoshi be the one to get the first 8 stars in order to unlock Mario? But other than the Yoshi thing, I LOVE 64DS.

Ultra sounds like fun! Maybe I should play it sometime lol.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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You do have a good point about the D-pad. For me though, since I played DS only for the longest time, it was never an issue for me. Felt natural to me. But, I see where you're coming from. And yeah, Yoshi as the first playable character felt odd to me. Now that you mention it, I do think having Yoshi first is odd. At the same time, he has the most awkward controls out of the 4 in DS. Luigi was my personal favorite, but playing as Mario and Wario were ok too. It's just...why have Yoshi be the one to get the first 8 stars in order to unlock Mario? But other than the Yoshi thing, I LOVE 64DS.

Ultra sounds like fun! Maybe I should play it sometime lol.
Ultra is a fangame idea that never got off the ground. For many reasons. I'm a creative person. I just have no power to let my creations out, if you will.
 

Metal Shop X

CHAINSAW POWEEEEEEEER
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
26,850
Location
USA
NNID
Mao644
3DS FC
4339-3012-0905
Switch FC
SW-2905-0652-6700
>When you go to a store and you find the last copy of Jojo All-Star Battle on PS3 and that you also buy the second tome of Mega Man Megamix.
>JoJo_Hype_Train_mp4

Tough, like Pokemon Moon, I will have to wait Christmas to play it.
BUT LIKE HOLY **** SON!!!!:gova:
I guess luck was on my side today.
Oh, and, I buyed Akira too.
 
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Burruni

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
9,408
Location
Some Netherworld
Currently SOS chaining to try to get a Shiny Oricorio as I'm underleveled to do postgame stuff and I don't even have any idea where to start with so much stuff to do
Does anyone have some sort of list of postgame events to do?
I'm leaving Poni Island and E4 rematches for later though
Catch the Tapus
Return to the Altar of Sunne/Moone with your box legendary at the opposing time to go to reverse world. Go to Lake of Sunne/Moone while there.
Rematch w/ Guzma on Route 2.
(Edit: The Eeevium Quest)
UB Quest, starts from the motel on Akala (Route 8).
Go to Aether to pick up your Type:Null from Gladion (second floor).
Poni Island
E4 Rematches.
 
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Aetheri

W/E happens don't panic...
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
8,847
Location
ZDR
Switch FC
SW-3397-5428-2304
Moon playthrough is a go! Would've played Moon first if it weren't for Ninetales being exclusive to Sun but now its time for some nighttime fun!
Going with the girl this time, appropriately named her Selene, I'm expecting some much better customization this time around than for the boy...

My so far very new Moon team...
Rowlet-Legolas
 
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