Social NintenZone Social 4 - Bring It In, Guys!

[Swamp Sensei]

Because Melee was boring.

To you.

It's exciting for a lot of people.

There's a market for it.

Or does everything you not like deserve to not exist?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wavedashing is useful, just figure out a more "ergonomical" (for lack of better word) way to execute it.

As for L-Cancelling, that's just bad game design. A mechanic that you want to do 100% of the time with no drawbacks at all? Take that out. Just half everyone's landing lag. At what point do you ever want more landing lag?

And before someone brings up something about how L-Cancel is like basketball, no it's not. Not even close.

There's no point in Wavedash if it isn't balanced and requires no effort. It doesn't work as a button press either. It's specifically designed in a way that requires you to actually properly direct your character during a jump while pressing the Shield button. The issue has always been the input commands, but it doesn't work any other real way. The best they can do is still force you to properly aim it with the control stick, but have a button that activates it if you're decently close enough to the ground. It'd make it easier to do, without taking away its usage, which is viably moving around faster and dodging some attacks. It's much harder to simply as a move as you're saying.

No, L-Cancelling stays because that's key to how Melee is designed. Yes, it is badly designed. But it's still a core part of the gameplay that made it notable. There's no reason to remove a legitimate and super easy to use tech when problemsome glitches exist and deserve removal ten times more. The thing about it is that it also helped with balance because it did allow more in-depth gameplay in the long run(no question that it was done in a shallow way, but the results still show that it created more depth. You can't do that with auto-cancelling in any way. Not the way it's been implemented, anyway. See a lower paragraph for a thoughtful way to do lag cancelling that is both balanced and isn't poorly implemented).

The landing lag should never ever be halved for everything. It should either require effort to do so(minimal even) or should be based upon the move, for balancing purposes. Simple solutions like that are half-assing the balance entirely. You might as well not have any change to landing lag. If it's the same for every move, it does nothing at all. Characters need to be properly looked into, and lag should not be removed for all moves. It's the only way to really balance it well. Which is a pretty big failure in every Smash game unfortunately. While there are a lot of moves, having some with lag can justify how strong or hard to dodge they are. There's legit balance this way. This is the only good and proper way to do it with L-Cancelling gone.

And to be honest, completely removing what makes Melee even playable just ruins the game. It's better to not remake it than to remove the two core mechanics that made it even worthwhile in competitive play. Overhauling them in a balanced way is fine, as long as they still work in a way that keeps the original game's design. This is the reason a lot of remakes are panned. It completely messes with the original game way too much. FFVr's new battle system can be a huge issue for those trying to enjoy an improved version of the original game, for example. Some don't mind that battle system, but nostalgic players want the Gauge Battle System back. It was also a fairly balanced one anyway.

...Who actually compares L-Cancelling to basketball? Nobody is arguing it's unbalanced. It's just taking it away completely takes away what made Melee even remotely popular to play. Which does not bode well for trying to sell it to players who want it in HD or with more balance. It's a better case of "just release it on the VC without messing with the game". It's still a damn popular competitive game to this day anyway. That hasn't changed, and more than likely never will.

 

[N3ON]

As long as the Switch has USB adaptors and GC on the VC that really should suffice.

Dev time is better spent on expanding the series and moving forward.

 

[Wario Bros.]

This Smesh talk is reminding me that the next dev blog for SSB Crusade happens tomorrow (covering Super Sand Lesbian Goku).

I really want them to talk about Shantae instead.

 

[Aetheri]

If Melee HD happens, it will inevitably come with the removal of wavedashing and L-cancelling...There's a chance that they may keep the game as is with a few minor tweaks but with the way Sakurai approaches the game to make it more accessible to more people, I can easily see it being removed because of this...

Which in turn will inevitably come with heavy backlash from Melee fans...I still remember the reaction to brawl when it was released how 'slow' it was...Thus Project M was born...

I'd rather not have a Melee HD remaster and just have a new game entirely...give us Melee on the VC or even an Ultimate Smash Collection bundle of some kind released for the Switch containing all of the Smash games...

I think that would be awesome to be able to play ANY smash game on the go...

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, let's remake Melee
A game that will end up with less characters, less stages and either old gameplay mechanics that are outdated and full of glitches or an engine built on top of Smash 4's one literally making it an inferior version of it.
What could go wrong anyways?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Just what we needed, another Melee topic. -_-

But at least it's not about arguing why it deserves it's place as the most competitive Smash game of all time.

 

[Pazzo.]

Day 23: Monster Mash

A crazy classic that screams cheesy movies and silly spooks. That's what Halloween is all about, right?

Tomorrow...
Our next theme...
Takes many forms.
A warning? A scare? A profound tale?
It's almost dark...
The stars are coming.

You thought it would be Opossum... but it was actually him, @Lord Dio! Brando with the correct guess.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Seriously, I know the Melee vs Smash 4/Brawl wars are awful but what gives?


Melee HD is not the end of the world. It's better to have it than not.

 

[ChikoLad]

Just remembered something related to the whole "why the Wii U failed" discussion.

On the very day the Switch got revealed, I brought my Wii U Pro Controller and Wireless Adapter for PC into college to test out a special build of PCSX2 (PS2 emulator) that was built specifically for KH2FM.

A friend of mine asked me what controller I was using, and when I told him what it was, he was gobsmacked. He had no idea the Wii U had a traditional controller option, and said he probably would have bought one before had he known.

That situation reminded me of how Nintendo did **** all to advertise the existence of the Pro Controller.

 

[N3ON]

Melee is the easiest Smash game to just boot up and start playing, and for that I appreciate it. 64 is easy too but 64 controllers are ehhh.

Other than that, I'm no pro Smasher, so I like my bigger rosters. Preferably ones with Cloud.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Im doing a powerpoint on constellations for class but having trouble making th first slid, how should I introduce the power point to people?

 

[FalKoopa]

Seriously, I know the Melee vs Smash 4/Brawl wars are awful but what gives?


Melee HD is not the end of the world. It's better to have it than not.

Melee VC would work better imo.

I don't think anyone really wants Melee HD. Melee players don't want the mechanics compromised and Brawl/Smash 4 players probably won't be interested.

 

[Kurri ★]

...Who actually compares L-Cancelling to basketball? Nobody is arguing it's unbalanced. It's just taking it away completely takes away what made Melee even remotely popular to play. Which does not bode well for trying to sell it to players who want it in HD or with more balance. It's a better case of "just release it on the VC without messing with the game". It's still a damn popular competitive game to this day anyway. That hasn't changed, and more than likely never will.

Every time I argue against L-Cancelling, there's always someone who likens it to basketball. "It's like dribbling" they say.

 

[Pazzo.]

Just remembered something related to the whole "why the Wii U failed" discussion.

On the very day the Switch got revealed, I brought my Wii U Pro Controller and Wireless Adapter for PC into college to test out a special build of PCSX2 (PS2 emulator) that was built specifically for KH2FM.

A friend of mine asked me what controller I was using, and when I told him what it was, he was gobsmacked. He had no idea the Wii U had a traditional controller option, and said he probably would have bought one before had he known.

That situation reminded me of how Nintendo did **** all to advertise the existence of the Pro Controller.

Ah, that's why the Pro Controller was shown in the Switch reveal!

Melee VC would work better imo.

I don't think anyone really wants Melee HD. Melee players don't want the mechanics compromised and Brawl/Smash 4 players probably won't be interested.

That's the problem.

Why spend resources on a Melee HD when its target group is so small?

That's not unkind... that's just bad business.

Melee VC would be awesome however.

 

[PLATINUM7]

If Melee got rereleased on the Switch I see it being just a VC release. At best it's just Melee with a higher resolution.
I'd probably get it, just to have a portable version of Melee. I still enjoy playing the older Smash games and portability seems like a good enough reason to double dip.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Melee VC would work better imo.

I don't think anyone really wants Melee HD. Melee players don't want the mechanics compromised and Brawl/Smash 4 players probably won't be interested.

The only reason for Melee HD is to add more characters(like some NPC's) and to update the graphics, and remove game-breaking glitches. The game did look beautiful back then. And exactly what you said. There's no point is decimating why it's popular as a game. The glitches aren't too big of a deal since most are banned anyway in competitive play. The mechanics are key to the tournaments. Decimating them will not make it sell. It'll just lose any potential it even had.

Every time I argue against L-Cancelling, there's always someone who likens it to basketball. "It's like dribbling" they say.

Oh, wow. That's a horrid comparison. You don't even need to do that to win. It just helps put you in a better position. Wavedashing honestly gives you a better chance of winning... on some characters.

But yeah, ss Fal said, compromising the mechanics will not make it sell at all. Removing game-breaking glitches and giving more content, while balancing it out better would do a great job in comparison. I'm okay with pure VC only, but the graphics are far more outdated than the mechanics which do actually work fine, they're just not the most balanced.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

A large amount of people would buy it (especially if the Switch gives us more big droughts ).

Only a handful would play it regularly.

So basically Smash 4 again, then.

I don't believe that especially if smash 4 is ported to the switch. why would any non-competitive person will want to buy a game with less characters, stages and the same event match that you already played.

Seriously, I know the Melee vs Smash 4/Brawl wars are awful but what gives?


Melee HD is not the end of the world. It's better to have it than not.

I know it's not the end of the world but they should waste their time on a new smash game or improve the one they have now, not remaking a game that they can easily port over on the VC. I hate remakes, there so many this gen that it starting to become annoying. Give me a new game I don't want any more remakes or remasters.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Why would I play melee when I would have Smash 4, a smash game with more characters, right there

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Rereleases of other fighting games sold pretty well all things considered.

Ports of Third Strike Online, Darkstalkers Resurrection, etc.

These things do sell.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Well it'll still be awhile until we get Melee HD/Smash Switch/whatever info so I'm just going to kill time with 3DS/Wii U, Super Smash Flash 2, SSB Crusade, and MAYBE Indie Game Battle (but definitely not Kung Fu Panda: Showdown of Legendary Legends due to how bare bone it is).

 

[PLATINUM7]

I don't believe that especially if smash 4 is ported to the switch. why would any non-competitive person will want to buy a game with less characters, stages and the same event match that you already played.

People might be nostalgic or just interested in seeing what past games were like. I know casual Brawl players that bought Smash 64 on the Wii's Virtual Console. There are resons to get Melee on the Switch, just not as many reasons to make it your main Smash game over Smash 4.

 

[ChikoLad]

Why is everyone assuming Melee HD would be an overhaul?

HD literally just means "high definition".

At minimum, a HD remaster is just displaying the game in a higher resolution, with some updated textures and fonts to account for that resolution upgrade. This is incredibly low effort work in today's day and age.

Depending on the Switch's architecture, emulating it might be more difficult.

And even that doesn't assure Nintendo would do it. The Wii U was capable of NATIVELY running GameCube games, yet they never used this for VC GameCube releases.

 

[Aetheri]

Funny thing about the Wii U Pro controller...it was basically just there...

The Gamepad was the main focus for the majority of the Wii U games, for myself personally I would probably only use it for VC games which isn't really worth the investment...I guess there's Smash but after playing Smash on the 3DS for almost a full year until getting Smash for Wii U it was easier for me to accustom myself to the Gamepad (of course I'd rather grab a GC adapter since I still have my GC controllers)

For the Switch it looks like every controller option is available for all of the games so it's at least worth the investment to grab the now very obviously and prominently advertised Pro controller....

 

[Kurri ★]

Why would I play melee when I would have Smash 4, a smash game with more characters, right there

Because they play differently? If you're into smash solely because of the characters, then def stick to Smash 4. But maybe you prefer the gameplay of Melee, or maybe they butchered a character of yours, or maybe you're just interested.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Rereleases of other fighting games sold pretty well all things considered.

Ports of Third Strike Online, Darkstalkers Resurrection, etc.

These things do sell.

Especially since they have tons of improvements, in ways of balance, more characters, more stages, more music, better graphics, and so on. Melee HD has no chance(if it were to happen) to be a crappy port with better graphics and nothing more. It will contain more, because that's what always happens with remakes. It will not have as much as Brawl's characters, likely, but that's okay. It's a different era anyway. Unless they were to just put in NPC's from the first two games only(or make a special Wireframe for all 26 characters?). There's also other things they can do like make the unlock options less stupid. Or remove dumb ideas(I'm looking at you, No Damage Run) that never worked out overall. L-Cancelling is extremely mixed, but it didn't make the game unplayable or break it, or piss people off to no end. Stuff like that. They can balance all kind of things. That's why I love remakes.

 

[praline]

Honestly Super Smash Flash 2 interests me more than a Melee HD ever could

 

[N3ON]

Also Smash 4 is gonna get an enhanced port. Smash 5 is gonna come out at some point for the Switch. Assuming it isn't rushed off the market I guess.

So not only is Melee HD unnecessary, but it's kind of over-saturating the series. I mean as it is now this is likely the first Nintendo platform that will be getting two unique Smash releases.

The only reason for Melee HD is to add more characters(like some NPC's) and to update the graphics, and remove game-breaking glitches. The game did look beautiful back then. And exactly what you said. There's no point is decimating why it's popular as a game. The glitches aren't too big of a deal since most are banned anyway in competitive play. The mechanics are key to the tournaments. Decimating them will not make it sell. It'll just lose any potential it even had.

Well, first, they're not going to add new characters to a game that will be ~sixteen years old when they can add it to Smash 4, which likely still has an active dev team if it's getting that enhanced port. Second, they're not going to remove any game-breaking glitches and keep the glitches that everyone likes. It'd be an all or nothing deal there.

Rereleases of other fighting games sold pretty well all things considered.

Ports of Third Strike Online, Darkstalkers Resurrection, etc.

These things do sell.

I heard Darkstalkers Resurrection flopped.

Smash will sell because it's Smash, but ports with new characters and actual new iterations will sell better, which is why that's what we're gonna be getting.

 

[FalKoopa]

Im doing a powerpoint on constellations for class but having trouble making th first slid, how should I introduce the power point to people?

I'd say the first couple of slides should be about constellations are (a definition, basically) and bit of their history (people have been cataloguing them for centuries.)

 

[ChikoLad]

Funny thing about the Wii U Pro controller...it was basically just there...

The Gamepad was the main focus for the majority of the Wii U games, for myself personally I would probably only use it for VC games which isn't really worth the investment...I guess there's Smash but after playing Smash on the 3DS for almost a full year until getting Smash for Wii U it was easier for me to accustom myself to the Gamepad (of course I'd rather grab a GC adapter since I still have my GC controllers)

For the Switch it looks like every controller option is available for all of the games so it's at least worth the investment to grab the now very obviously and prominently advertised Pro controller....

Wii U Pro Controller was supported for most games.

3D World uses it.

Both Zelda ports use it.

Mario Kart 8 uses it.

Etc, etc.

It just wasn't prominently advertised for some reason. It was the better option in many cases too, the battery life is amazing on it.

 

[Aetheri]

Why is everyone assuming Melee HD would be an overhaul?

HD literally just means "high definition".

At minimum, a HD remaster is just displaying the game in a higher resolution, with some updated textures and fonts to account for that resolution upgrade. This is incredibly low effort work in today's day and age.

Depending on the Switch's architecture, emulating it might be more difficult.

And even that doesn't assure Nintendo would do it. The Wii U was capable of NATIVELY running GameCube games, yet they never used this for VC GameCube releases.

Because like other HD remasters the game gets bugs fixed and patches and tweaks to 'improve' the gameplay...it happened for both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, and it happened for the Primes on the Wii...

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I just want Pichu back in Smash. It's the reason why I'm stuck having to play Melee to this day.

But I'm sure none of you would understand since he's "low tier clone fodder".

 

[praline]

When I played Melee I really only ****ed around as Dr. Mario or Roy.

 

[AndreaAC]

I got into that game LOOOOOOOOOONG before even Jontron was a thing.

YEARS ago I bought this beauty off eBay (in an era when bootlegs weren't banned):

And I proudly own it to this very day! :3

Plus there's a fan translation of the original that gives it PROPER English and removes all the bugs and tarnishes the bootleg is plagued with.

Oh, sorry got taking long to respond to this! WOW, xD Lucky you! I bet it feels rather weird when playing it!

but definitely not Kung Fu Panda: Showdown of Legendary Legends due to how bare bone it is

As much as I love the KFP movies (specially the second one), I never expected to see that game being a thing (Also, I don't like the redundant subtitle), the only good think I can get out of it is Lord Shen's 3D model because it looks pretty good...>_> despite leaving him without his tail/train feathers...

 

[AreJay25]

I heard Darkstalkers Resurrection flopped.

It sold fine. It reached Top 10 on PSN at one point.

It just didn't meet Capcom's "sale expectations". Whatever that means.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Because they play differently? If you're into smash solely because of the characters, then def stick to Smash 4. But maybe you prefer the gameplay of Melee, or maybe they butchered a character of yours, or maybe you're just interested.

Well I may want pichu but I just move on to whats new rather then to stick to something thats old

 

[Soul.]

We'll get Smash 3DS/Wii U ported

Pikachu will still suck. Wait it's mid tier.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I really don't see the need for Melee HD. Might as well go and make Smash 64 HD and Brawl HD while you're at it.

 

[ChikoLad]

Because like other HD remasters the game gets bugs fixed and patches and tweaks to 'improve' the gameplay...it happened for both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, and it happened for the Primes on the Wii...

Those are three examples in all of gaming.

Most HD remasters are exactly as I described. In the case of the Zelda ports, they mostly just fixed some easy to fix issues. Melee really doesn't even need that though.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

It sold fine. It reached Top 10 on PSN at one point.

It just didn't meet Crapcom's "sale expectations". Whatever that means.

Fixed that for you.

It really makes you wonder why Capcom really expect that much from Darkstalker of all things. Aren't they the same guys that jumped the shark with mutant space dinosaurs in Dino Crisis 3?