Social NintenZone Social 2.0: Remember That Time Candle Jack Visited Swa

[Tree Gelbman]

My problems with Playstation Allstars.

- None of the major PS1 allstars are in the game.
- Cole and Evil Cole being two separate characters.
- Odd third party choices. Most of which felt forced on the developers.
- Zeus (Kratos was enough.)
- The kill system.
- Stage selection was strange. The meshing of two franchises for one stage felt very off putting and disrespectful.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

For me, Shovel Knight getting in is the first instance of a bandwagon character successfully getting into Smash. Literally the only thing he has in his favor is that he's the flavor of the month, and I personally think that that's a very dangerous road for Nintendo to go down with additions.

Shovel Knight has pretty much no relevancy to Nintendo, at least not that he doesn't already share with literally every other console on the market. He's currently this game's Geno, a completely irrelevant and unimportant third party who inexplicably got popular because the game they were from was good and that they were popular in their original game. Even then Geno has an advantage over SK, because at least he was a Nintendo exclusive character, whereas Shovel Knight, up until the very recent announcement of his amiibo, had MORE content in his game on every major console BUT Nintendo's. And just like Geno's support post-Brawl dwindled and died, Shovel Knight's undeniably will as well, and he'll fall into the pile of characters like Gooey, Midna, Geno, and Krystal, of characters that had large fanbases once but that fell off the face of the earth by the time of the next Smash.

Nintendo giving credence to obvious bandwagon characters such as Shovel Knight is a very, very dangerous thing when it comes to future Smash content. A Smash where all a character will need is to be in the right place at the right time and have their creators beg hard enough in order for them to get in, regardless of their importance to Nintendo or it's history. Doing this with a third party is even MORE dangerous.

And I say this as a massive Shovel Knight fan who stayed up until 4 am to perfect Plague of Shadows. This is a terrible choice if Nintendo goes through with it.

tl;dr: Adding Shovel Knight is about as bad as adding Geno to me - a character who has no relevance to Nintendo whose fleeting bandwagon support will ultimately die out and whose support now will be be just as laughable in the future as Geno's is to us now.

See, this is fair. At least you're not hating on the character. I can respect that.

As much as I want him in, I'll struggle to believe his inclusion isn't the result of ballot demand - and if that's the case, then yes, a lot of what you're suggesting (bandwagoning) holds some weight. I do still believe there's more to it than that and he does have some legitimate reasons for inclusion (all his cameos helped those other games sell better and become better known, so being an active supporter of the Indie community as a whole certainly helps), but there's just no ruling out fan demand on this one.

I'm not going to press the topic much right now as it's getting a little heated. Just wanted to acknowledge that this is a more effective way of debating than simply trashing on the character.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Man. For all its faults, this game had an amazing opening.

I'd like to discuss a couple of things though.

Why didn't this game work?

SSB works just fine. As does various other crossovers.

Why didn't it catch on?

Was it just the gameplay? I mean it wasn't perfect but for all intents and purposes it was really fun. It should have at least been a great starting point. I hope it comes to PS4 someday as I would love to own it finally.

Was it the roster? I'm not so sure...

I mean look at the first party line up!

Debuted on PS1.
Parappa (Parappa the Rapper)
Toro (Doku Demo Isskyo)
Sir Daniel Fortisque (Medievil) <--Best Character
Spike (Ape Escape)
Sweet Tooth (Twisted Metal)

Debuted on PS2.
Colonel Radec (Killzone)
Jak and Daxter (Jak and Daxter)
Rachet and Clank (Rachet and Clank)
Sly Cooper (Sly Cooper)
Kratos (God of War)
Zeus (God of War)

Debuted on PS3
Nathan Drake (Uncharted)
Sackboy (Little Bit Planet)
Cole MacGrath/Evil Cole MacGrath (Infamous)
Emmett Brown (Starhawk)
Fat Princess (Fat Princess)
Nariko (Heavenly Sword)

Even one character from the PS Vita!
Kat (Gravity Rush)

This isn't a bad list of characters! They got several Sony icons there and were smart enough to bring both the megatons and the obscure. For the characters they could get. They used them pretty well.

Even the third party picks aren't that bad.

Heihachi (Tekken), Dante (Devil May Cry) and Raiden (Metal Gear) all have direct ties to the PlayStation brand. And while Big Daddy (Bioshock) and Isaac (Dead Space) are a bit odd. They definitely work and have fun tools to use.

They were pretty darn smart. They even gave each console a lot of love.

Are there any real problems with it? I mean there are clashing art styles sure but that's the point. Even then other crossovers have done that. Smash does it all the time.

So what happened?

I don't think the developers respected each brand. I mean. Look at the rival cutscenes. These characters are often needlessly hostile. Some of them work great. Like Kratos being a gigantic prick. Others like say... Dante and Nariko? Why does Dante think Nariko is a demon? Why does Parappa already know Spike? Why are these characters so needlessly hostile when they aren't in their respective games? It's just off putting to me.

On a similar note. The stages. I admit that combining worlds was pretty neat at first I started to think it was because the creators weren't sure some of these brands could stand on their own. It's also somewhat lops sided as some series get stages and others don't because...? It feels like some were just favored over others.

I dunno. What do you guys think?

I think the biggest problem was the roster. While the 1st party line up was excellent they legally couldn't get a lot of Playstations biggest icons, (Crash, Spyro, Snake, Cloud, Lara Croft, Sora) and had a questionable 3rd party line up (****ty new Dante and Raiden over Snake?) with characters that seemed to be added mainly to promote their games (Donte with DMC, Raiden with Metal Gear Rising, Big Daddy with Bioshock Infinite, Young Heihachi with Tekken Tag 2 and latter Isaac Clark with Dead Space 3). It also got a lot of negative feedback for being a "Smash Bros rippoff". Also the game feels like it lacks a lot of polish, which is due to the fact that the game was made by a new small team. Also the killing mechanic was kind of lame and ****ed the games balance, and there was a severe lack of modes.

 

[SuperMii3D]

If you made one game and then settled on that, putting the character in 10 + other games, creating and distributing and Amiibo, and possibly begging Nintendo (Ubisoft and the Bit Runner Dev begged for trophies) to put SK in Smash.

Hell, did you see the amiibo announcement video with the Game Grumps? The amount of SK posters, shirts and grumpage is the pure definition of selling out.

Holy crap.... bro....

Do you know what they were doing in that video? They were doing something called, uh what is it called ? Uh.... Oh right, advertising.

Which is nice that they have their character in it, to promote their product about that said character. Oh good lord...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

lol seeing the Monado brat rage about Butt Butt is amusing as I take business classes.
Someone I stalk on twitter said this "I'd love Shovel Knight in Smash as he's the little Indie that could" and honestly, he's become THE Indie icon, being up there with Shantae and Quote

 

[Champ Gold]

Also I love how it had a major trailer for an update for the game last year

But what makes it really special, check the date it was posted.

Remember that day?

Wrong video folks. PLEASE IGNORE

 

[Senselessbreak]

Yeah, because they clearly settled down with one game
It's not like they have a bunch of DLC to make because of the Kickstarter
And you would still be usingnthe sellout thing if they had made another game
"They already made another game? They're trying to push SK down our throats!"

-The DLC is the same game with a different character. (Who plays better than SK imo, although the ending was awkward).
If they made another game that would be different, but if SK becomes anything like Minecraft , they probably won't for a long time.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Man. For all its faults, this game had an amazing opening.

I'd like to discuss a couple of things though.

Why didn't this game work?

SSB works just fine. As does various other crossovers.

Why didn't it catch on?

Was it just the gameplay? I mean it wasn't perfect but for all intents and purposes it was really fun. It should have at least been a great starting point. I hope it comes to PS4 someday as I would love to own it finally.

Was it the roster? I'm not so sure...

I mean look at the first party line up!

Debuted on PS1.
Parappa (Parappa the Rapper)
Toro (Doku Demo Isskyo)
Sir Daniel Fortisque (Medievil) <--Best Character
Spike (Ape Escape)
Sweet Tooth (Twisted Metal)

Debuted on PS2.
Colonel Radec (Killzone)
Jak and Daxter (Jak and Daxter)
Rachet and Clank (Rachet and Clank)
Sly Cooper (Sly Cooper)
Kratos (God of War)
Zeus (God of War)

Debuted on PS3
Nathan Drake (Uncharted)
Sackboy (Little Big Planet)
Cole MacGrath/Evil Cole MacGrath (Infamous)
Emmett Brown (Starhawk)
Fat Princess (Fat Princess)
Nariko (Heavenly Sword)

Even one character from the PS Vita!
Kat (Gravity Rush)

This isn't a bad list of characters! They got several Sony icons there and were smart enough to bring both the megatons and the obscure. For the characters they could get. They used them pretty well.

Even the third party picks aren't that bad.

Heihachi (Tekken), Dante (Devil May Cry) and Raiden (Metal Gear) all have direct ties to the PlayStation brand. And while Big Daddy (Bioshock) and Isaac (Dead Space) are a bit odd. They definitely work and have fun tools to use.

They were pretty darn smart. They even gave each console a lot of love.

Are there any real problems with it? I mean there are clashing art styles sure but that's the point. Even then other crossovers have done that. Smash does it all the time.

So what happened?

I don't think the developers respected each brand. I mean. Look at the rival cutscenes. These characters are often needlessly hostile. Some of them work great. Like Kratos being a gigantic prick. Others like say... Dante and Nariko? Why does Dante think Nariko is a demon? Why does Parappa already know Spike? Why are these characters so needlessly hostile when they aren't in their respective games? It's just off putting to me.

On a similar note. The stages. I admit that combining worlds was pretty neat at first but I started to think it was because the creators weren't sure some of these brands could stand on their own. It's also somewhat lops sided as some series get stages and others don't because...? It feels like some were just favored over others.

I dunno. What do you guys think?

I thought the kill system was weird, and the super-broken multiplayer bugs (characters randomly being invisible/invincible on your partner's screen in a double) was a huge deal breaker.

Plus, what was with the same giant character being the backdrop of like 50% of the stages? Even as a story mode element, that just got old. There's a lot of design choices I just didn't get.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

If Shovel Knight were to be confirmed, I'd simply applaud him. "Congratulations on becoming playable, Shovel Knight!" I'm more neutral on Shovel Knight - wouldn't mind him becoming playable, nor would I mind about his exclusion. Regardless, I'd still want to see at least two or all of the characters in my signature in Smash one day.

 

[Khoru]

lol seeing the Monado brat rage about Butt Butt is amusing as I take business classes.
Someone I stalk on twitter said this "I'd love Shovel Knight in Smash as he's the little Indie that could" and honestly, he's become THE Indie icon, being up there with Shantae and Quote

shantae isn't an indie icon in... any capacity?
sales ain't everything, but shovel knight's done in a year what shantae's done in thirteen

Big Daddy with Bioshock Infinite

wait how

If they made another game that would be different, but if SK becomes anything like Minecraft , they probably won't for a long time.

apples and oranges bro
randomgen sandbox games like minecraft and terraria can afford to eternally patch and update things
shovel knight will always be the same shovel knight

 

[Senselessbreak]

lol seeing the Monado brat rage about Butt Butt is amusing as I take business classes.
Someone I stalk on twitter said this "I'd love Shovel Knight in Smash as he's the little Indie that could" and honestly, he's become THE Indie icon, being up there with Shantae and Quote

Who says I even like Shulk? Ever consider my avatar is making fun of him? Also as I pointed out, a first party title released in all regions does not equal a third party indie title currently exclusive in the west.

 

[Neo Zero]

S Senselessbreak SuperMii3D Tree Gelbman Cutie Gwen

Please desist the attacks of each other's opinions/posting inflammatory comments at once. Drop the argument and move on or else.

 

[Oblivion129]

The amount of SK posters, shirts and grumpage is the pure definition of selling out.

Game Grumps bought those things. They're huge SK fans. Ross and Holly even cosplayed as Shovel Knight and Shield Knight before.

Edit: Sorry Neo. Didn't see your post until after posting mine.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What the **** is your problem guys?

Sure. You may not agree with S Senselessbreak

lol seeing the Monado brat rage about Butt Butt is amusing as I take business classes.
Someone I stalk on twitter said this "I'd love Shovel Knight in Smash as he's the little Indie that could" and honestly, he's become THE Indie icon, being up there with Shantae and Quote

You know nothing of how to run a business.

Please don't ever open one.

Conducting a business = selling out

You can't make this **** up people.

But this **** is unacceptable.

What's worse is that you people were complaining that we were chasing people away.

"Oh but it's okay when I do it." "This is different."

You're all a bunch of hypocrytes.

I don't agree with the man either and personally Senseless I think your attitude is a tad extreme, but you don't deserve any of this ****.

EDIT: Sorry Neo.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

-The DLC is the same game with a different character. (Who plays better than SK imo, although the ending was awkward).
If they made another game that would be different, but if SK becomes anything like Minecraft , they probably won't for a long time.

They've said they WANT to do sequels, but unlike what you've been claiming, they're smart and are finishing the DLC first to keep fans entertained and because of the kickstarter. Imagine if they never got to doing the DLC, how well would fans take it? It'd instantly go MN9

Sorry Neo

 

[Serpdrako]

For some reason I hate Link in For Glory...

 

[Roaring Salsa]

Man. For all its faults, this game had an amazing opening.

I'd like to discuss a couple of things though.

Why didn't this game work?

SSB works just fine. As does various other crossovers.

Why didn't it catch on?

Was it just the gameplay? I mean it wasn't perfect but for all intents and purposes it was really fun. It should have at least been a great starting point. I hope it comes to PS4 someday as I would love to own it finally.

Was it the roster? I'm not so sure...

I mean look at the first party line up!

Debuted on PS1.
Parappa (Parappa the Rapper)
Toro (Doku Demo Isskyo)
Sir Daniel Fortisque (Medievil) <--Best Character
Spike (Ape Escape)
Sweet Tooth (Twisted Metal)

Debuted on PS2.
Colonel Radec (Killzone)
Jak and Daxter (Jak and Daxter)
Rachet and Clank (Rachet and Clank)
Sly Cooper (Sly Cooper)
Kratos (God of War)
Zeus (God of War)

Debuted on PS3
Nathan Drake (Uncharted)
Sackboy (Little Big Planet)
Cole MacGrath/Evil Cole MacGrath (Infamous)
Emmett Brown (Starhawk)
Fat Princess (Fat Princess)
Nariko (Heavenly Sword)

Even one character from the PS Vita!
Kat (Gravity Rush)

This isn't a bad list of characters! They got several Sony icons there and were smart enough to bring both the megatons and the obscure. For the characters they could get. They used them pretty well.

Even the third party picks aren't that bad.

Heihachi (Tekken), Dante (Devil May Cry) and Raiden (Metal Gear) all have direct ties to the PlayStation brand. And while Big Daddy (Bioshock) and Isaac (Dead Space) are a bit odd. They definitely work and have fun tools to use.

They were pretty darn smart. They even gave each console a lot of love.

Are there any real problems with it? I mean there are clashing art styles sure but that's the point. Even then other crossovers have done that. Smash does it all the time.

So what happened?

I don't think the developers respected each brand. I mean. Look at the rival cutscenes. These characters are often needlessly hostile. Some of them work great. Like Kratos being a gigantic prick. Others like say... Dante and Nariko? Why does Dante think Nariko is a demon? Why does Parappa already know Spike? Why are these characters so needlessly hostile when they aren't in their respective games? It's just off putting to me.

On a similar note. The stages. I admit that combining worlds was pretty neat at first but I started to think it was because the creators weren't sure some of these brands could stand on their own. It's also somewhat lops sided as some series get stages and others don't because...? It feels like some were just favored over others.

I dunno. What do you guys think?

Common complaints I've seen include the following

• Only way to KO opponents is by supers (and Medusa head)
• Lack of different game modes
• The roster. PS2 and PS3 is represented really well, but then there's the PS1 representation. They managed to include all the important first-party PS1 characters, however considering how big Crash/Spyro/Lara/Cloud were during the PS1 era (with them even being considered the mascots of PS) there's a big gap in the roster

But the one I consider to be the most important reason is that once SuperBot's contract ended, development of the game was handed to Santa Monica Studios which gave up right away not even daring to finish the Abe (Oddworld) and Dart (Legend of Dragoon) DLC that was planned. The game was simply left in its broken state where only Kratos, Raiden and Kat are ever seen

To be honest, I hope they consider making a sequel. I really enjoyed playing it with my friends, plus I really like playing as Big Daddy

 

[SuperMii3D]

S Senselessbreak SuperMii3D Tree Gelbman Cutie Gwen

Please desist the attacks of each other's opinions/posting inflammatory comments at once. Drop the argument and move on or else.

Jess Sir.
At this point, I feel like Mario Maker is all thats coming. Lunch times almost over for Sakurai

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

shantae isn't an indie icon in... any capacity?
sales ain't everything, but shovel knight's done in a year what shantae's done in thirteen

wait how

apples and oranges bro
randomgen sandbox games like minecraft and terraria can afford to eternally patch and update things
shovel knight will always be the same shovel knight

I guess it was more the stages that were added, but also the the fact that when people think Bioshock they think Big Daddy.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sorry, I'm a little drunk, so my ***** lever isn't dialed back.

I apologize to everyone and will pursue the issue no more.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I guess it was more the stage that was added, but also the the fact that when people think Bioshock they think Big Daddy.

The people at Bioshock and Tekken were smart.

They chose the icon for their character.

Not who was new.

 

[Kenith]

The people at Bioshock and Tekken were smart.

They chose the icon for their character.

Not who was new.

Well, Tekken's iconic characters still appear in the new games.
Whereas Cloud was not in FF13.

But still, yeah...Heihachi is actually a good choice.

 

[KatKit]

I wasn't a fan of DMC Dante until this video: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TyUArTDYYVc

If only that alt. was in PSABR (in hindsight, the title could have been better lol), instead of him being shirtless.

 

[Deleted member]

-The DLC is the same game with a different character. (Who plays better than SK imo, although the ending was awkward).
If they made another game that would be different, but if SK becomes anything like Minecraft , they probably won't for a long time.

If you're not a game developer, don't talk about how "easy" it is do include a completely different character, a new story and new levels with a small team
Besides, if you played PoS and you still felt like it was the same game,mI think we might have a problem here
They also have two other characters to do the same and a 4-Player Battle Mode that includes ALL of the Knights

Who says I even like Shulk? Ever consider my avatar is making fun of him? Also as I pointed out, a first party title released in all regions does not equal a third party indie title currently exclusive in the west.

Uhh... Maybe because Shulk is listed as your Wii U main...

 

[Shroob]

I'm still waiting to see the Mii costumes. I have a hard, ****ing time believing that we're not getting any.

 

[Champ Gold]

Can we go back into talking about PS All Stars Battle Royale? Please.


So who do you want in sequel when ever it's made and Sony will give them a bigger budget

Mines just bring back almost all the characters and DLC fighters. Remove Isaac Clarke, Big Daddy and Donte.

Add in Deslin, Fetch, Joel, Ellie, anyone from Bloodborne, Un Lammy Jammer, the actual Dante, Big Boss, Sora, a few indie characters, the chick from Horizon, Ryo, Scorpion, Ryu Haysbusa and the big 4

Crash Bandicoot
Spyro the Dragon
Lara Croft
Cloud

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm still waiting to see the Mii costumes. I have a hard, ****ing time believing that we're not getting any.

Yeah, I'm mostly just expecting these now and I'm surprised we haven't gotten an announcement of any yet.

 

[Soul.]

At this point I may as well see them posting an official Ballot suggestion poll while I listen to Pokémon BW's Hall of Fame song

 

[AreJay25]

Playstation All-Stars was a weird game.

I will say that I think the roster was fine. Yeah, it missed some big names, but the reasons for why they weren't playable were understandable. Besides, they pretty much got most of their major first party characters. Can't really fault them on that.

But the gameplay. Soooooo unbalanced that it's not even funny. Kat pretty much made me stop playing lol.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The people at Bioshock and Tekken were smart.

They chose the icon for their character.

Not who was new.

They were. I really wish we continued to get DLC for the game. Dart from Legend of Dragoon would have made a great 1st party addition and we probably would have gotten Lara Croft too. Just a fun little fact, someone at Superbot (I forget who, might have been Omar) claimed Namco was the easiest 3rd party company to work with.

 

[KatKit]

I'd love to see Ellen from Folklore in a hypothetical PSABR 2, but she'd have a snowball's chance.

 

[Neo Zero]

I wanted Dart so bad. Not getting him killed that game from my mind. Even worse than Kat owning the meta did

 

[vaanrose]

The people at Bioshock and Tekken were smart.

They chose the icon for their character.

Not who was new.

They still chose the new, non-canon Young Heihachi who was only ever meant to be used in Tag 2.

 

[New_Dumal]

Hey guys, one day away from the update.
I wish we won't get strange balance crap again, only buffs.
How would I win without a broken character ?

About new content...I think we will get another stage besides Mario Maker, and that's all.
I will be quite surprised if there's a DLC character this time.
And... I want to be surprised.

 

[Kenith]

Can we go back into talking about PS All Stars Battle Royale? Please.

So who do you want in sequel when ever it's made and Sony will give them a bigger budget

I want-

Mines just bring back almost all the characters and DLC fighters. Remove Donte

yes

Add in Ellie

YES

anyone from Bloodborne

YES

Ryu Hayabusa

YES

Spyro the Dragon

YES

Lara Croft

YAS.
PETITION TO MAKE THIS GUY DIRECTOR OF PSASBR2 (which will probably never happen lol)

 

[Champ Gold]

Speaking of Tekken Tag Tournament

I seriously want this song in Smash somehow

I want-

yes

YES

YES

YES

YES

YAS.
PETITION TO MAKE THIS GUY DIRECTOR OF PSASBR2 (which will probably never happen lol)

I aim to please baby.

I seriously do want Ryu Hayabusa in some sort of crossover fighter. Being stuck in DoA hell is punishment enough.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They still chose the new, non-canon Young Heihachi who was only ever meant to be used in Tag 2.

Eh. The newest design of an already established iconic character is a tad different than a re-imagining of a character like Dante.

Besides, Heihachi looked like that in Tekken 1 and 2. Black hair and all.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Speaking of Tekken Tag Tournament

I seriously want this song in Smash somehow

I aim to please baby.

I seriously do want Ryu Hayabusa in some sort of crossover fighter. Being stuck in DoA hell is punishment enough.

Ryu Hayabusa for Smash. Then we can have two Roys vs two Ryus.

 

[PushDustIn]

Okay guys, I'll be back to my regular posting levels. I have work, but I'll be "here" more than I have been in the past week. So be on your best behavior

I know this is old discussion, but please refrain from talking about traps, "flat chest", etc. The discussion on female anatomy went on for too long and at worst those posts can be in violation of the NSFW/PG-13 rule. I get it that it's a joke but the previous two discussions came off as spam and went on for far too long. Let's try to keep things related to video games.

@GoldenYuiitusin
Cutie Gwen
@HyperFalcon

(Sorry if I forgot someone who was involved in that discussion, but this is a public warning for all those involved)

 

[vaanrose]

Eh. The newest design of an already established iconic character is a tad different than a re-imagining of a character like Dante.

Besides, Heihachi looked like that in Tekken 1 and 2. Black hair and all.

Well, no. Heihachi was always bald.