Ninja Clan Here We Stand! Sheik Match-Up Thread

[_Tree]

That's a big claim Sailor Princess...

Regarding the Rosalina match-up, do penetrating needles go through Luma? If so that would be the needle custom of choice.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I live in extremes

 

[-dMT-]

I'll drop this here, cuz it's relevant:

 

[False]

Against Little Mac, you have to be EXTREMELY confident in your offstage game. Once you throw Little Mac off, it should be done and done. Bait his counter/air dodges and read his high low mix ups. Once you take his jump, sit on stage and think about how you're going to take his next stock as he tries and fails to recover.

Additionally, although I do believe that needles do a fair job in combating DHD's camp game, you shouldn't necessarily even be relying on needles that much. DHD doesn't do well fighting Sheik up close once she gets in. All the DHDs I've played have either tried to fight me up close and have usually lost the boxing game 30-70 or tried to reset the situation and run away.

Once you get in on DHD, you have to respect his options. But Sheik always has the upper hand. Read his dodges, and body him hard: http://youtu.be/nLMh5LKdEMo

 

[-dMT-]

Oh my gosh False.

 

[El Penguino]

Oh my gosh False.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I found a Link spammer on For Glory this morning. He played poorly, but even in lag, I could tell Sheik has problems keeping up. His DSmash beats hers, the sword is great for keeping her at bay, and he can match Needles easily with any of his three projectiles. So if he rolls, you punish with DSmash and whiff, he can DSmash you instead. Plus, given that Sheik is up-close and personal, if you shield a DSmash and try to punish, there's enough push back to keep you away and he can just do it again or spot-dodge.

 

[SBelmont]

K request received.

All testing was done in training mode against a level 9 yoshi set to 'stop' the attacks used were dthrow and then uair. Results were writing down when the 'combo' gauge register 6 showing all hits of the uair combo into dthrow.

Training mode results, I stop trying at 150%

Beyond 150% Sheik start sending yoshi too high for her to follow up....So yeah... Chances are your not going to combo someone with a dthrow into uair at 150% but technically it's possible.

edit: of course this isn't taking into account VS 1.05 freshness so it's most likely closer to 140% if not a bit lower.
edit2: Obviously VI effect this as well
Do you still want all the characters?

I find that Forward Throw combos into U-Air much easier than D-Air does, especially at high percentages. Even with 150%+ depending on the enemy's vectoring, f-throw into a short run, hop, u-air will hit them before they can dodge. I've been able to do this on a variety of characters.

 

[-dMT-]

I found a Link spammer on For Glory this morning. He played poorly, but even in lag, I could tell Sheik has problems keeping up. His DSmash beats hers, the sword is great for keeping her at bay, and he can match Needles easily with any of his three projectiles. So if he rolls, you punish with DSmash and whiff, he can DSmash you instead. Plus, given that Sheik is up-close and personal, if you shield a DSmash and try to punish, there's enough push back to keep you away and he can just do it again or spot-dodge.

I outcamped a good Link player with default needles and gravity nade. I outcamp basically anyone with them, except the straight laser shooters... and for them spacies I just do what Sheik does best, get in and stay in.

Link so far has been an easy MU for me, and I play a more than decent Link very often. He plays me more than anyone, and I'm the reason he quit playing Link last time and switched to Toon Link.

Bouncing Fish will get past anything except a boomerang properly angled upwards at the right time... and needles will cover that option nicely. Furthermore, once you start juggling Link, he's one of the more particularly easy to carry with fairs type of characters.

Sheik vs Link is an uphill battle for Link. 65-35 Sheik favor at best, probably more like 70-30 or 75-25.

-------

I propose we discuss in detail the following match ups with Sheik:

Rosalina, Lucario, Diddy, Sonic, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Pac-Man, and perhaps some more Greninja.

 

[Silverfox117]

Can we talk about Shiek vs Robin. Robin can easily kill her with a strong back aerial and if she reads right she could get her with thoron. I want to hear how you guys handle a Robin player tho. I am a Robin player and I would like to hear the strategy of other players against her if that is okay with you guys/

 

[-dMT-]

Can we talk about Shiek vs Robin. Robin can easily kill her with a strong back aerial and if she reads right she could get her with thoron. I want to hear how you guys handle a Robin player tho. I am a Robin player and I would like to hear the strategy of other players against her if that is okay with you guys/

Robin's game is all about keeping away and working off of Elfire setups. Sheik cuts right through all that bull****. Robin's Thunder spells and Elfire spells are predictable and easy to avoid or get past, and once you get in on Robin, her options are super limited.... she's way too slow to offensively interrupt Sheik's melee range onslaught.

Furthermore, at range needles yet again have a far superior camp game.

In my experience, any Robin's I play get 2 stocked.

A really good example of the current metagame of Sheik vs Robin can be found in the recent Flase vs Nairo match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQSWSuftc7U

 

[Dagon97]

Right now I am really shaky with the Shiek-Charizard matchup.
Any help?

 

[?.?]

Robin's game is all about keeping away and working off of Elfire setups. Sheik cuts right through all that bull****. Robin's Thunder spells and Elfire spells are predictable and easy to avoid or get past, and once you get in on Robin, her options are super limited.... she's way too slow to offensively interrupt Sheik's melee range onslaught.

Furthermore, at range needles yet again have a far superior camp game.

In my experience, any Robin's I play get 2 stocked.

A really good example of the current metagame of Sheik vs Robin can be found in the recent Flase vs Nairo match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQSWSuftc7U

Don't forget you can bounce grenades off elfire for a single bounce then instant explosion.

 

[Hoser]

What does everyone think about the Villager match-up? I don't encounter good Villagers often, but when I do I find myself having a real hard time getting in on them. It seems that if I shoot off my needles the same time he/she shoots off their Lloyd (that's the name of the rocket thing, right?), I don't have enough time to shield or dodge. They often hide behind their tree while doing this, making it harder to approach without getting domed by a falling tree. Almost every match I've had against a good villager has gone to time.

 

[-dMT-]

So Diddy is kinda tough...

 

[KenMeister]

Any tips on ROB, I got bodied by one really good one earlier today, didn't really get a change to ready my needles, and I felt like I got outcamped the entire time. Also, side B seems hard to out-prioritize alot, and needles don't work obviously. Help?

 

[saviorslegacy]

This thread is all over the place. We need to all be discussing one character at a time.

I propose we discuss in detail the following match ups with Sheik:

Rosalina, Lucario, Diddy, Sonic, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Pac-Man, and perhaps some more Greninja.

I concur with dMT but will also tack on Little Mac, ZSS and Robin as well.
I have seen a lot of ZSS, Little Mac, Robin and Greninja. I believe these should have a higher priority.

Honestly, out of every match up so far I feel like Lucario is our hardest match up. For the most part we don't kill until high percents, which is just fuel on the fire for Lucario. Lucario is very scary at 150% and he can easily kill us at that point if we are anywhere near 100%.

 

[Zef]

what the hell do i do vs falcon?

 

[SirKenneth]

I agree with savoir. This thread need a little more structure and we need to work together to flesh out these match ups. And then hopefully the op can update the first post so we can have all of the up to date my knowledge right on the front page for ease of access.

Anyway on to my little contribution

I played against a Sonic for hours yesterday that my feels tough although I think it will end up being 5/5 or 6/4 Sheik. When we first started going at it I got bodied. Game 1 was on FD and he 2 stocked me. Game 2 was on BF and I pulled out the win. After that we played a ton it would be hard for me to remember every game but I pulled some knowledge out of our countless matches

First and foremost needles are a god send vs sonic but you cannot use them blindly. Sonic is fast and he can punish very quickly. When you see him in spin ball start throwing or charging with the intent to throw. I found needles helped a lot but a good sonic will find ways to over whelm with speed and mobility. Needles alone weren't enough to keep me in the fight which forced me to really start to use Nair more. Nair is incredible. Nair can beat most of sonics moves it is also a great out of shield option to punish him spinning into you. When you get sonic off stage keep him there. I found Nair to be really good offstage and helps keep the pressure on. Fair and bair are great air to airs. I found even when he was edge guarding me I was able to win in the air with fair/bair.

I had a ton more in my head about this but I keep getting interupted by my brother lol I'll detail more when I can but in closing. Needles and Nair are great for neutral. Spin ball can be really annoying to deal with but OoS Nair becomes a great punish and needles help keep him out (don't forget how fast he can punish an ill timed needle though) oh and before I forget running up smash is a pretty fast punish sonic has. I remember one game he was at middle of FD I came up from ledge and well running up smash lol.

I'll add more info later right now I'm all over the place hahaXD

 

[Lime_O]

I can agree with the previous post, Sonic vs smart needles doesn't end well for Sonic.
On the Rosalina MU (granted I played 1 or 2 games), I found that letting them over charge luma and then running in and over luma was very effective. Luma would be in the middle of the stage, while I was able to handle a regular Rosalina (which btw still is not a bad character w/o luma). Could have been the specific player I happened to be matched against, but it worked.
Also I got a kill by Bouncing Fish over luma rocket.
The falcon MU for me was a lot of needles and baiting gutsy falcon moves. Their dash attack, which they love to do, ends up behind your shield, so yea. But, they are pretty easy to get uair combos with.

Alright, to focus in on one topic here, what can be done with ZSS MU? She's a very common character online, and has her stun thing. From what I've experienced, you have to play a seriously on point bait and punish game. Whiffed grabs can be punished hard. And shielding her neutral b can lead to free grabs for her, which leads to not fun. Any thoughts?

 

[False]

Can we talk about Shiek vs Robin. Robin can easily kill her with a strong back aerial and if she reads right she could get her with thoron. I want to hear how you guys handle a Robin player tho. I am a Robin player and I would like to hear the strategy of other players against her if that is okay with you guys/

Punish Elfires with short hop bouncing fish. You can read it.

The Three Commandments of Sheik:
1. Once thy gets gets in, thy shall maximize the punish
2. No edge shalt be left unguarded
3. Bouncing Fish.

what the hell do i do vs falcon?

Falcon doesn't have a lot of horizontal options in the air. His up-air covers a great deal of distance above him, and is good for traps + follows ups out of dash attack and throws. However, his only means of horizontal spacing in the air, nair, is pretty much Brawl nair (which is mediocre) as there are no aerial momentum jumps in the game. The only reason it was viable in Melee was because of the distance it covered. Otherwise, the move is limited.

Therefore, Sheik's fair combats this really well. Falcon is fat so at mid percents we can short hop fair fast fall repeatedly and deal on quite an amount of percentage. Falcon has a linear recovery so take advantage when fighting him off stage. Don't be afraid to go off and fair him. Teching is really easy off of Falcon dive. Bouncing fish the eff out of his second jump and get ready to read the high/low recovery.

Essentially, every match up boils down to how far you take your punishes. Sheik's damage output is actually below average but is completely covered by the fact that every follow-up she can do out of true combos are usually a 65-35 situation. You can always mix up your opponent's shields.

When you're at death percents, respect raptor boost. (Falcon's side+b) It's been buffed this game, as it can kill us really early. I don't really mind getting grabbed at high percents as that's usually the time where Falcons won't have their true d-throw > u-air set up, so I'm in no threat besides having the trouble of getting on stage. Falcons can scoop you while you're short hopping so be careful when you jump.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The Three Commandments of Sheik:
1. Once thy gets gets in, thy shall maximize the punish
2. No edge shalt be left unguarded
3. Bouncing Fish.

I like




Alright, so I have done my best to kinda organize the OP. I think we are good on Little Mac for right now. Right now a lot of people want to discuss Rosalina and Luma so I am making that the current topic. Please give me your feed back.
I got nothin... just saying. This match up is infuriating to me.

 

[Equalox]

Rosalina hits you with her boobiez though (dash attack).

Whenever i use BF if i hit luma most rosalina's run in for the punish when im recovering, save that 2nd hit of BF and it can normally hit them XD. Also avoid grabbing her if you haven't already figured that out.

 

[ep1c_marf]

Anyone have any advice or pointer for the Rosalina matchup? She give me a lot of trouble with luma hitting me out of my grabs all the time and she alos takes needles for Rosalina. So yea how do you guys play this?

 

[Lime_O]

Alright, here's my total thoughts on the Rosalina MU.
Sheik's projectile game is not as good in this matchup compared to others. Needles are not very useful. They can catch Rosalina if she's running ahead of luma, but all in all not very useful. I found smart nades to be best here. Don't go around using it all about.
Try to bait out a luma shot. They don't have a projectile other than luma (and maybe star bits), so if you play around with nades, you can bait either an approach or luma.
Don't focus too much on it, but try to get rid of luma as best you can. I don't play Rosalina, but I think if you are actively trying to get it, they will protect it (if anyone has any insight on this, please contribute). If you get the luma off stage, distract Rosalina. Luma has zero recovery other than Rosalina calling it back. When luma dies, you have eight seconds until the respawn. Go in. There is no really safe place to camp in this game, especially with Sheik's ledge game. Use the killer punish game Sheik has. But, do not under estimate Rosalina. Even alone, she still has funky hurtbox movements in her aerials and her recovery doesn't change. Not to mention some of her disjointed options. Go in, but stay cautious.
Grabs can be useful if you can get far enough away from luma. Also, BF hits luma normally, but can hit Rosalina if you are close enough (you may need to attack earlier to do so).
Her spot dodges and rolls can be very bothersome. You don't really know which way they are moving. Try to predict which way she will go.
This MU comes down to the basic Sheik - bait, read, punish. Rosalina can be challenging, but is handle-able. If I had to give this MU a rating, I would say 50-50, possibly even 55-45 in Rosalina's favor.
If there is anything I have said that is actually dead wrong, let me know. This has worked for me.

(I would add something about her recovery having a hitbox, but I don't actually know. If someone could help there, that'd be great. Also, I haven't noticed if luma has the same roll as Rosalina, by that I mean does luma disappear when Rosalina rolls.)

 

[Heropon_Riki]

Tips for bowser? I know bouncing fish is good for his fire breath but any other gneeral tips?

 

[Ghoti]

In my playing, I've only had one hard match-up: Rosalina. I honestly don't know how to beat her. Luma stops needles. If I attempt to string attacks together, Luma stops that by attacking me. Rosalina's aerials appear to have more range, and I'm more likely to be hit than she is. Luma stops Bouncing Fish.

If I could get help with the MU against Rosalina, I'd appreciate it.

 

[rekt]

On Topic:

I feel like the only super hard matchup I've had is Rosaluma. However, I still feel like it is possible to out camp her. I'm almost certain (Correct me if I'm wrong) a punish after needle is possible because most of Rosaluma's power comes from luma. Rosalina would be thrown off kilter if Luma is stunned because the stun would cause Rosa to lose control of Luma for a short period of time. A lot of this is said peripherally because I don't play Rosaluma much because I don't know anyone who mains her in person.


Off Topic:

This thread is all over the place. We need to all be discussing one character at a time.

I concur with dMT but will also tack on Little Mac, ZSS and Robin as well.
I have seen a lot of ZSS, Little Mac, Robin and Greninja. I believe these should have a higher priority.

Honestly, out of every match up so far I feel like Lucario is our hardest match up. For the most part we don't kill until high percents, which is just fuel on the fire for Lucario. Lucario is very scary at 150% and he can easily kill us at that point if we are anywhere near 100%.

I was wondering if we could cover the Lucario MU a little more. I'm having trouble with Level 9 Lucario's as Shiek and I don't have trouble with any other Level 9's... I feel like the best way to overcome this is to out camp him and get a nice Bouncing Fish while he's on a downB or smash CD. Are there any other ways? I'm glad other people are having trouble with this though. I felt like an idiot when I was three stocked by a level 9 lucario @ 200% damage the first time.

 

[MattCon5]

I don't have a ton of Rosalina matchup experience but I'll share my two cents.

One bothersome thing about the Rosalina matchup is that she can easily juggle Sheik. That's not something that many other characters in this game can really do. She matches Sheik's aerial game pretty well, and a good Rosalina will know how to space her aerials properly so it's difficult for Sheik to get in on her.

I found when playing Rosalina, one of my best options to approach was dash into shield. It's relatively safe, and if Rosalina starts putting on shield pressure, nair out of shield is your friend. However, doing this risks Rosalina going for a grab which is extremely risky. Rosalina has pretty good follow ups out of her grabs.

Also, Sheik players should take advantage of b-reverse slide cancel in order to bait Luma shots. At the appropriate length, Sheik can then jump in and pressure Rosalina without the risk of Luma breaking combos. I really feel like that's going to make or break the matchup for Sheik, the ability to bait Luma shots and get in quickly enough.

I'd guess this matchup is either even or slightly in Rosalina's favor.

 

[SirKenneth]

I happend to see the ganon mu thread and it looks beautiful. In going to post the link to it here. Nothing wrong with following good examples.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...tch-up-discussion-guide.373934/#post-17869466

 

[KenMeister]

I happend to see the ganon mu thread and it looks beautiful. In going to post the link to it here. Nothing wrong with following good examples.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...tch-up-discussion-guide.373934/#post-17869466

Well at least, ya know, he actually HAS positive matchups this time around, rather than being countered by the entire cast like he was in Brawl. lol

 

[ArikadoSD]

Against Samus, the match-up is pretty shifted towards Sheik to be honest. Samus' projectiles give way too many opportunities for Bouncing Fish, and even if they cancel their projectiles or the Bouncing Fish is timed wrongly and they shield or roll, it's pretty much usually a safe option, especially if they go for the former where you can just bounce back without much lag and virtually no chance of being punished. Samus's attacks are also kinda slow so those definitely help Sheik do her usual ftilt and fair shenanigans pretty easily. Additionally, the needles can be really annoying to Samus.

One trouble I found is when I use Bouncing Fish just as Samus launches her rocket, I would hit the rocket and take damage instead of Samus herself, so that's a bit annoying but easy to get past. What I love the most though, is that a fully charged B special can easily be dodged using Bouncing Fish, and most of the time you would land said Bouncing Fish on Samus. Additionally, it's really easy to edgeguard, just be careful of her Up B if they're too close to the ledge. Overall I find the MU pretty good for Sheik and bad for Samus.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Played a lot against a good friend of mine who uses Ganon. Most of the time, it's impossible for Ganon to even have a chance to do anything, but if it does get a chance then it's tough for Sheik, lol. This might just be me sucking at edgeguarding, but against Ganon it's kind of hard to do because honestly, his aerials got so much knockback that if you go off-stage to gimp and accidentally get hit, you could lose your lead/momentum, and ganon's dair is pretty much an instant spike. It's very easy to combo against though, so as long as you're careful when it comes to edgeguarding, it's a pretty easy match-up. Sheik's needles can also interrupt his down b.

Against Greninja, there was someone here who said its weighted towards Sheik, and I find that completely wrong. In fact, I find it a lot more weighted towards Greninja. Greninja's Up Smash is just way too good, and it can interrupt bouncing fish, and has ridiculous hitbox and range. Additionally, it's really hard to grab for some reason, and Sheik's side/down/up smashes ar epractically useless against it because more often than not side smash will miss the second hit (seeing as Greninja is too short), and the other smases have too much lag and virtually no range, so greninja can easily take advantage of that. The key factor here is Greninja's Up Smash really, it's just so goddamn good.

 

[linkez]

Punish Elfires with short hop bouncing fish. You can read it.
The Three Commandments of Sheik:
2. No edge shalt be left unguarded

This is how you GET THE GIMP.

Sorry, i had to.

Anyways, is there a certain amount of characters that are UNABLE to grab a landing fair before our jab comes out or is it just me?
Do not count spacing for this question (like, you would destroy ganon with fair on shield with proper spacing, i guess?)
I played a nice dk and he was unable to grab me out of my landing fair.

I'd like to add some discussion stuff: anyone here got the feeling that against tanks (ddd, bowser...) the matchup is like 70:30 in sheik favor in early % but it becomes like 60:40 in their favor once they are over around 100%?

 

[KenMeister]

This is how you GET THE GIMP.

Sorry, i had to.

Anyways, is there a certain amount of characters that are UNABLE to grab a landing fair before our jab comes out or is it just me?
Do not count spacing for this question (like, you would destroy ganon with fair on shield with proper spacing, i guess?)
I played a nice dk and he was unable to grab me out of my landing fair.

I'd like to add some discussion stuff: anyone here got the feeling that against tanks (ddd, bowser...) the matchup is like 70:30 in sheik favor in early % but it becomes like 60:40 in their favor once they are over around 100%?

I remember someone mentioning on the D3 boards that the matchup feels more like a -1 than -2. Sure we can combo him, but without a good read, we won't be killing him until 200%.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Against heavier opponents, just do Sheik's regular combos (which are significantly easier to pull against them!) until they reach higher percentages, at which point you'd rather kill them by uair or an offstage bouncing fish. It's true that you gotta be careful because most of the time, it only takes one side smash from the at like 80% for Sheik to die, but other than that the matchup is definitely always weighted towards Sheik.

Another matchup I wanna discuss is against Marth/Lucina, I often have trouble against a well played Marth, because they've just got so much range, and their side-smash is also pretty damn good. I don't know what else to say really but all you've got to watch out for is their side smash. They can interrupt a bouncing fish and they hurt badly. Needles are amazing agains tthem though, especially because they have no projectiles. I feel like the match up is even.

 

[linkez]

I get very confident against marth and lucina when i try to cover their landing options.
Seriously though, if you get one grab, it can probably lead to some absurd stuff (which is what happens against tanks as well)

Everyone here is mentioning bouncing fish offstage as a good kill move.
Of course it will kill if it hits near the blast zone, but unless i'm missing something like a guaranteed setup to it,
no one will ever get hit by that (no one = good people, i mean, ofc you can destroy stocks of those who do not see it coming, but good people will be ready for it... so my question is:

HOW DO I LAND THAT against good opponents?)

 

[Tristan_win]

So I played a rather good De3 on wifi and got a decent chunk of experience, here are some of my mental notes and reflections.

Usmash kill Sheik after 100%, the hit box hits infront (I think) and behind de3 and it doesn't seem to get weaker.
Uair kill Sheik after 130% even below the stage lip and is great at denying Sheik a gimp.
Dash attack can kill Sheik at 90% if your on the farthest corner of FD
De3 grabs need to be respected as he does have guaranteed combo's in the low percents and in the high percents if you DI poorly, which can kill you if he uses uair.
Dair is now a spike
His jab is rather impressive

If Sheik is able to grab De3 it almost guarantees a set up into fair, uair, or nair and in the low percents it's fairly possible to do things like fthrow into fair, fast fall, fair, follow them in the air, fair or even more. I could nearly constantly get de3 from like 0% to 30 or even 50% with 1-3 grabs. The problem is killing the fat ******* (Austin powers). I've found saving Bouncing fish to around 130% and only using it when he's near the ledge helps. This is one of the match ups I feel it's very easy to use Bouncing fish but you shouldn't unless you are in the low percents or in killing percents, this can't be stress enough as beyond 60% there's ton of combo's that can end with bouncing fish that honestly you shouldn't take.


De3 is extremely hard to gimp due to his up B now having super armor on the attack so if he recover low it's very difficult to gimp him but it's not impossible. I've found if you can guess when he's going to use his up B a dash of stage into bair when time correctly can work. The problem is getting the timing and if he has any jumps left he can delay his up B and he can do it at nearly any range. Worst yet if De3 predict your going to try to do this and he's near the ledge he can use uair to cover himself.

All and all the player I fought was just better then me and I'm by far not the best representative for Sheik but as it stands right now I think De3 vs Sheik is at the very best even or in De3 favor.

 

[?.?]

-snip for space-

My buddy plays a pretty average d3 as well so few things to add, be very careful when knocking gordos back at him as he doesn't have to time his d-tilt at all to send it straight back at head level. His nair is a very effective option and if he sweetspots it on shield he has a pretty solid advantage for a grab. as for ledge game his armor now dies off after the apex of his up+b don't know exactly when but it's pretty much around the top. I've found an effective way to edgeguard is when they up+b in an attempt to snap to ledge is to simply drop and full hop and then regrab to push them off (you can follow this with bair for some good damage/knockback to keep them offstage), if you time it right this works as a nice mixup to throw in now and then.

Edit: I was meaning to get around to writing that MU out but laziness always kicks in and I say "Eh, someone else will get it". Lol

 

[ArikadoSD]

I played some more against my friend who mains Greninja (he's the best Greninja I've seen/known), and I noticed some more things: Greninja WILL spam its Usmash, because it's virtually lagless, hits incredibly ****ing hard (outright KOs near ~100% if done correctly), and has an amazing hitbox. Often times it will interrupt Sheik's Bouncing Fish. Also, f you're hanging from a ledge, it's best to either 1) drop down, jump, and do an fair if the opp is at the edge or 2) normal get up. Jumping will only result in Greninja landing a sweetspot Usmash. Its also somewhat difficult to edgeguard because of Shadow Sneak (greninja's side b), but Sheik can usually easily land a bair if timed right when Greninja is using its Hydro Pump. Approaching from the air is very risky because again, Greninja loses nothing by just using Usmash which has more range than fair and bair iirc.

Shadow Sneak is very easily punishable so make use of that. Don't dodge it, shield it and then go for a grab into a followup, this will usually end up in Sheik getting the lead for a while.

Use Bouncing Fish very sparingly because it's landing lag is too much and Greninja WILL punish you hard. only use it if you're in the air and know you won't get landing lag, or if you know you'll hit the opp (aside from using it to recover of course)