Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

[LimeTH]

I think the logic NASB is going by is "what cool characters do we have the rights to use?" and not necessarily "which characters best represent the Nickelodeon legacy, and which shows should get higher treatment?" This game isn't Smash.

This is something I wish people would get through their skulls.

Besides a few no brainers like Spongebob and Aang, and a few corporate mandated picks like, I dunno, probably Patrick, the rest of the roster is chosen on the basis of "Wouldn't it be cool/funny if". They've said as much several times. They've explained how their character selection process works over and over.
But nah, every time "why is it not the main character" or "this show is the Zelda/Pokemon to Spongebob's Mario" or "this character is the equivalent to this Smash character" which is just "why is this not like Smash?"

Because it isn't Smash. It's not the same dev team, it's not made under the same standards or with the same vision. It's not trying to be a playable museum exhibit. It's meant to be cool/funny and that's it.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

This is something I wish people would get through their skulls.

Besides a few no brainers like Spongebob and Aang, and a few corporate mandated picks like, I dunno, probably Patrick, the rest of the roster is chosen on the basis of "Wouldn't it be cool/funny if". They've said as much several times. They've explained how their character selection process works over and over.
But nah, every time "why is it not the main character" or "this show is the Zelda/Pokemon to Spongebob's Mario" or "this character is the equivalent to this Smash character" which is just "why is this not like Smash?"

Because it isn't Smash. It's not the same dev team, it's not made under the same standards or with the same vision. It's not trying to be a playable museum exhibit. It's meant to be cool/funny and that's it.

I see where you're coming from and I agree to an extent. But to play devil's advocate, that choice to make everything "le funny" will have its setbacks and criticism. It's not unreasonable to want all stars in an all star game especially when the customer is expected to pay top dollar if we want more NASB. These are iconic characters in rotation Lime, of course those fans of such iconic characters would want their favorites.

 

[LimeTH]

I see where you're coming from and I agree to an extent. But to play devil's advocate, that choice to make everything "le funny" will have its setbacks and criticism. It's not unreasonable to want all stars in an all star game especially when the customer is expected to pay top dollar if we want more NASB. These are iconic characters in rotation Lime, of course those fans of such iconic characters would want their favorites.

I mean, that's fair, I know I had my own characters I wanted and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be really bummed if they cut ZIM or Norb and Dag in the next one. I just think people need to stop acting like this game is trying to be a 1-to-1 equivalent to Smash but with Nickelodeon characters when it's not.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I don't believe for a second that they'll never ever ever bring back the cut characters.

Maybe not for this DLC pack, but possibly the next one will bring back CatDog and Oblina. Maybe my hunch is right and Hugh will be brought in as an update. Who knows?

If there's an NASB3, well surely now that they got everything in the new engine and with better movesets they won't feel the need to completely overhaul all the characters, which means we can get some of the 11 back.

The dooming in this thread is insufferable sometimes. I get you guys are upset but this is just next level nuclear pessimism.

Also quite frankly, this roster doesn't even touch how bad KR3's was, come on now. We still got plenty of cool characters to play as

To be fair yes, I agree that Oblina and CatDog Will most likely come back for a sequel, maybe even later as DLC. But this doesn't mean that this game roster isn't worth critisizing just because they could hypothetically come back, nobody's pretending that they've disappeared from existence. As of base roster I think it's disappointing.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

I mean, that's fair, I know I had my own characters I wanted and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be really bummed if they cut ZIM or Norb and Dag in the next one. I just think people need to stop acting like this game is trying to be a 1-to-1 equivalent to Smash but with Nickelodeon characters when it's not.

It's less about Smash and more in general. It's not just main character for the sake of it, nobody gave a serious look at Eliza, most can't even remember her name. Arnold is an iconic beloved character however, I may find him boring but others don't and he earned a lot of respect. Him or numerous other favorites being slighted for "le wacky picks" will strike a nerve.

Like, come on it's marketed as "Nick All Star Brawl" with descriptions even saying to play as your favorite characters. There will be outrage over questionable roster decisions when people will expect all stars for an all star game. This isn't a charity event after all, it's a paid product that expects payment if NASB is gonna thrive.

 

[LimeTH]

To be fair yes, I agree that Oblina and CatDog Will most likely come back for a sequel, maybe even later as DLC. But this doesn't mean that this game roster isn't worth critisizing just because they could hypothetically come back, nobody's pretending that they've disappeared from existence. As of base roster I think it's disappointing.

People are allowed to criticize the base roster, of course. This was more in response to the excessive “they will never come back even in the sequels” dooming Riley and a few others were pushing. That’s not criticism that’s just getting wound up.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

"They were cut once, now they're cut forever" is literally just a post-Brawl Smash fan rule lmao.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

I don't see them coming in NASB 2 but them not making it in NASB 3 even after all the insane backlash is next level doomer ngl.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Its perfectly valid to not be a fan of the cuts they chose, but they were out in a tough spot, with needing to cut some characters while also introducing new ones

And despite them making a few cuts I absolutely do not like, they did their best with the time and resources they had.

Building a game back up from scratch took a toll. But think about this: the presentation and mechanics of this game seem to be much better thought out (even if there's still a little jank, like with Garfield's super not having a sense of impact, or April's animations not being smooth).

Next time around, there's a high likelihood they won't need to rebuild from scratch.

And with the devs and community seeing the highly negative reaction to cuts, plus given that they'll mostly be down to working on characters and stages next time, I think an Everyone is Here is a pretty likely possibility.

We may have to take a smaller newcomer pool at launch but we've done that before anyway.

The games still gonna be fun, it's still one of my most anticipated, even with my gripes.


Though I admit the Hey Arnold and Loud house stage numbers bugs my OCD.

 

[fogbadge]

personally i made my peace with the roster after the newcomer leaks before we got onto the cuts. and yeah i'm not exactly satifyed with the cuts or some of the newcomers but at the end of the day the only cure fire way to get a roster that you're 100% happy with is to be in charge of the game yourself. well i say sure fire but let's face even then there's other factors

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, so...can someone DM me a definitive list of newcomers and cut characters, just so I can keep clearer track?

 

[LimeTH]

It's less about Smash and more in general. It's not just main character for the sake of it, nobody gave a serious look at Eliza, most can't even remember her name. Arnold is an iconic beloved character however, I may find him boring but others don't and he earned a lot of respect. Him or numerous other favorites being slighted for "le wacky picks" will strike a nerve.

Like, come on it's marketed as "Nick All Star Brawl" with descriptions even saying to play as your favorite characters. There will be outrage over questionable roster decisions when people will expect all stars for an all star game. This isn't a charity event after all, it's a paid product that expects payment if NASB is gonna thrive.

So I agree the game could and should have more big name iconic characters in it (I think there’s no real excuse to not have one of the actual Rugrats), but at the same time, “le funny pick over main character” is not really the huge problem people make it out to be because it only happened twice. Once per game. Hugh in 1, Gertie in 2. Otherwise:

Nigel may have been a meme but he’s just as much a main character as Eliza, and like you said, no one was really aching for her anyway.

PTM came alongside Ren and Stimpy.

Oblina was one of an equal ensemble of three protagonists.

and Arnold’s name might be in the title, but HA’s cast is very much an ensemble. Helga over Arnold in 1 was entirely reasonable, and an argument can be made that Gerald, a very prominent character in his own right, is the Arnold replacement of this game, not Gertie, who comes off more as a PTM than a Hugh because she’s there with Gerald.
If we’re going to use the “ensemble cast” excuse for TLH, why can’t we use it for HA? If TLH was called “Lincoln’s House” would you guys be fighting for him?

 

[Teeb147]

Like I saw someone say, it's better to look at this game as a reboot. If possible, I'd recommend seeing it from a fresher perspective, there's lots to enjoy about it.

The gameplay was rehauled, it looks much better quality, so even though characters were cut, we got a much more polished smash-like game with plenty of good characters from nickelodeon, and it's pretty awesome looking up to now.

You can be unhappy with some of the decisions they made, but ultimately the question comes down to do you want to have fun with this game or not?
I do

 

[RileyXY1]

It’s definitely like, two or three people who actually genuinely like Lincoln and one guy who uses him as a means to start fights and annoy everyone.

And what’s insane is Linc was most likely next in line along with Hugh before the cuts happened. There’s two TLH stages. He wasn’t even the least likely to come back, even if he didn’t.

I think his cut sucks just as much as every other character’s but it’s not like TLH got excised entirely like CatDog and ARM did.

It might not have even been for Lincoln at all.

 

[LimeTH]

It might not have even been for Lincoln at all.

Oh right I forgot, they made a Loud House stage specifically for a Hey Arnold character. How silly of me.

 

[RileyXY1]

Oh right I forgot, they made a Loud House stage specifically for a Hey Arnold character. How silly of me.

Or that they planned to add a newcomer for TLH but scrapped them.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Everyone is Here and its consequences have been a disaster for platform fighter discussion.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't see them coming in NASB 2 but them not making it in NASB 3 even after all the insane backlash is next level doomer ngl.

It would be better because it would give the team more time and resources to add more newcomers.

 

[Enigma735]

I've been lurking this thread for quite a while and I figure it's finally time I wake up from my Smashboards retirement and give my own two cents on the matter.

I'm certainly no stranger when it comes to criticizing this roster. I think that they could have made so many better roster decisions even with the limited time and budget that they were unfortunately dealt with, and I don't think it's hard to see why people are upset with the decisions that were made. I greatly feel like NASB2 could have benefitted from more time in the oven to add most of those remaining vets back and I think it's a damn shame that they just weren't met with that opportunity. As one of the few unironic Hugh Neutron supporters, seeing Hugh get the axe was a huge punch in the gut for me.

With that said, I do want to call out some of the pessimism I'm seeing here as I feel like it's being blown way out of proportion. While I am saddened to see Hugh go and be demoted to nothing more than a simple NPC, I also am very understanding of the devs' situation here and I'm not going to crucify them for s*** that quite frankly wasn't under their control. I think the mentality of "oh X character was cut, that means they're cut FOREVER" is an extremely ridiculous statement and it reminds me of the absolute worst aspects of the Smash spec community, something that I wish this game's community would stray FAR away from.

Ultimately, it genuinely wouldn't surprise me at ALL if these characters were simply added later to be completely honest. CatDog and Oblina honestly seem like locks if we do get some more DLC passes aside from the first one we're already getting, and I can very well see my man Hugh and maybe even Helga be added much later. I just don't think it's wise to assume that the characters they chose to cut were out of any sort of malice or grudge against those characters in particular.

Personally, I just want to wait things out for now. If I have to sit and wait for Hugh to be added in later, that's just what I'm gonna have to do. As someone who supports Geno for Smash, I'm about as stubborn as you can get when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[ARandomFruit]

I'm wondering if the characters played in the footage have any meaning. like, are we getting those presentations soon? it would make sense to get Lucy's showcase around halloween. I might be overthinking it, but I wanna know what others think.

 

[AreJay25]

I'm wondering if the characters played in the footage have any meaning. like, are we getting those presentations soon? it would make sense to get Lucy's showcase around halloween. I might be overthinking it, but I wanna know what others think.

I wouldn't look too much into it. More than likely TK was just playing characters he likes/are in need of some last minute tuning. Korra's missing some particle effects, for example.

 

[LimeTH]

New conversation since I've been very curious about this.

Given some of what we've heard from leaks/rumors, do you guys think ZIM and GIR might be a stance fighter? With Goddard taking what GIR did in NASB1 and expanding it, right down to exploding upon impact, GIR's model being shown separately from ZIM's in certain leaks, and apparently some playtesters saying GIR supposedly has a full moveset, we might be looking at another Aegis/PT/ZeldaSheik situation here.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

New conversation since I've been very curious about this.

Given some of what we've heard from leaks/rumors, do you guys think ZIM and GIR might be a stance fighter? With Goddard taking what GIR did in NASB1 and expanding it, right down to exploding upon impact, GIR's model being shown separately from ZIM's in certain leaks, and apparently some playtesters saying GIR supposedly has a full moveset, we might be looking at another Aegis/PT/ZeldaSheik situation here.

I do wonder if that Beavers moveset leak that turned out to be fake was actually for Zim and Gir.

 

[LimeTH]

I do wonder if that Beavers moveset leak that turned out to be fake was actually for Zim and Gir.

Mind refreshing my memory on what that was?

 

[AreJay25]

New conversation since I've been very curious about this.

Given some of what we've heard from leaks/rumors, do you guys think ZIM and GIR might be a stance fighter? With Goddard taking what GIR did in NASB1 and expanding it, right down to exploding upon impact, GIR's model being shown separately from ZIM's in certain leaks, and apparently some playtesters saying GIR supposedly has a full moveset, we might be looking at another Aegis/PT/ZeldaSheik situation here.

I suppose it's possible, but the only thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that GIR's not attached with Zim in any of the leaked promotional materials or UI in the same way that the Beavers are. If he was truly a fully fledged character I'd feel like they'd promote him as such. But I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Mind refreshing my memory on what that was?

The beavers would be a stance fighter, but instead of summoning out, the inactive beaver would remain on stage, meaning that the player functionally teleports to where the other beaver was left and creates a new teleport for the next stance change.

 

[LimeTH]

I suppose it's possible, but the only thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that GIR's not attached with Zim in any of the leaked promotional materials or UI in the same way that the Beavers are. If he was truly a fully fledged character I'd feel like they'd promote him as such. But I'd love to be wrong.

There's gotta be something different going on with GIR after what they did with Goddard.

The beavers would be a stance fighter, but instead of summoning out, the inactive beaver would remain on stage, meaning that the player functionally teleports to where the other beaver was left and creates a new teleport for the next stance change.

That'd definitely justify the duo/stance fighter setup better. I'm okay with the Beavers being a Pyra/Mythra deal but they still have that "why are they not just separate" feel to them.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Another big problem is that this is one's only option for a Nickelodeon platform fighter, where big nick icons are pie-in-the-sky picks. Nick should honestly have a different dev make the more traditional, smash-like game for a wide audience, while letting Ludosity make their memey deep cut game aimed at the adult niche audience. Nick gets to make money from two games, and everyone's happy.

Anyway, bye everyone

 

[Ze Diglett]

This thread is more recursive than a damn Mobius strip.

Not to mention all the other iconic characters that got the axe. This roster is even worse than KR3's roster, and that was a low bar.

Yes, because I'd definitely rather play the game with Nickelodeon icon Jojo Siwa in it than this one. Come ON, bro.

This is something I wish people would get through their skulls.

Besides a few no brainers like Spongebob and Aang, and a few corporate mandated picks like, I dunno, probably Patrick, the rest of the roster is chosen on the basis of "Wouldn't it be cool/funny if". They've said as much several times. They've explained how their character selection process works over and over.
But nah, every time "why is it not the main character" or "this show is the Zelda/Pokemon to Spongebob's Mario" or "this character is the equivalent to this Smash character" which is just "why is this not like Smash?"

Because it isn't Smash. It's not the same dev team, it's not made under the same standards or with the same vision. It's not trying to be a playable museum exhibit. It's meant to be cool/funny and that's it.

PREACH. These devs have talked multiple times about how they don't care about representation or completing groups, yet people still get their undies in a twist when their roster choices don't reflect their own ideas of what a crossover should be. At a certain point, the game just isn't for you and that's fine, but like... don't drag the room down with you, y'know?

Everyone is Here and its consequences have been a disaster for platform fighter discussion.

Hindsight is, unfortunately, 20/20. If I could push the button that retroactively removed EIH from existence, I'd absolutely do it.

Another big problem is that this is one's only option for a Nickelodeon platform fighter, where big nick icons are pie-in-the-sky picks. Nick should honestly have a different dev make the more traditional, smash-like game for a wide audience, while letting Ludosity make their memey deep cut game aimed at the adult niche audience. Nick gets to make money from two games, and everyone's happy.

Anyway, bye everyone

MultiVersus runs into the exact opposite issue for me. None of the characters I care about are big WB icons, yet that's almost entirely what they're going for, so the game just isn't for me. See how this whole thing can go two ways?

See ya.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Another big problem is that this is one's only option for a Nickelodeon platform fighter, where big nick icons are pie-in-the-sky picks. Nick should honestly have a different dev make the more traditional, smash-like game for a wide audience, while letting Ludosity make their memey deep cut game aimed at the adult niche audience. Nick gets to make money from two games, and everyone's happy.

Anyway, bye everyone

Their "memey deep cuts" include...Jimmy Neutron, Jenny, and El Tigre. A safe, corporate roster is a double edged sword when it'd exclude BOTH of the Neutrons.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Hindsight is, unfortunately, 20/20. If I could push the button that retroactively removed EIH from existence, I'd absolutely do it.

This is a pretty awful take ngl. The problem isn't that Everyone is Here was bad, the problem is that people, yes, myself included, do look at this game's roster and maybe unfairly compare it to Smash, but more characters isn't inherently a bad problem.

People are also completely valid in wanting the game's roster to be like Smash. People are valid to not want it to be like that. Neither is inherently wrong, but one crowd will be displeased if it caters to one side or the other. That's just a fact.

 

[Guynamednelson]

This is a pretty awful take ngl. The problem isn't that Everyone is Here was bad, the problem is that people, yes, myself included, do look at this game's roster and maybe unfairly compare it to Smash, but more characters isn't inherently a bad problem.

I think more people just need to understand that sacrifices have to be made when you bring back every single veteran from previous games. SSBU itself is an example when half of its base game newcomers had to be clones, and this game would be too if it seems like the amount of newcomers we're getting matches the number of cuts.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

This is a pretty awful take ngl. The problem isn't that Everyone is Here was bad, the problem is that people, yes, myself included, do look at this game's roster and maybe unfairly compare it to Smash, but more characters isn't inherently a bad problem.

People are also completely valid in wanting the game's roster to be like Smash. People are valid to not want it to be like that. Neither is inherently wrong, but one crowd will be displeased if it caters to one side or the other. That's just a fact.

EIH isn't just a problem for other fighters - it's proven to be a competitive balance nightmare, which Ultimate has impressively dealt with to the best of its ability, but still not enough (FP2, Dr. Mario, Dedede, Ganondorf, Sonic...), makes it harder to convince people on earlier Smash games' merits (64 fan here), and been a real thorn in Ultimate's goal of being a "celebration of gaming history" (not that some of the newcomer choices are helping either) - plus a lot of people really hate SSBU's lack of single player content outside of WOL. Whether that's WOL's fault or EIH's fault we'll never know, but still. also Fire Emblem

Don't even get me started on its potential impacts on future Smash games.

 

[Ze Diglett]

This is a pretty awful take ngl. The problem isn't that Everyone is Here was bad, the problem is that people, yes, myself included, do look at this game's roster and maybe unfairly compare it to Smash, but more characters isn't inherently a bad problem.

It is what it is, amigo. Personally, I don't think much of value would've been lost if folks like Young Link and Pichu had stayed in the past (as well as trimming some accumulated roster fat like Corrin), especially in comparison to the mountain of insufferable discourse we would've been spared.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

It is what it is, amigo. Personally, I don't think much of value would've been lost if folks like Young Link and Pichu had stayed in the past (as well as trimming some accumulated roster fat like Corrin), especially in comparison to the mountain of insufferable discourse we would've been spared.

And you're entitled to that opinion, don't let me take that away from you. Personally speaking I'm still salty Corrin ever got in the first place, but I'm also someone who vastly prefers both Pichu and Young Link to their normal counterparts. And i was okay with the newcomer lost in base being small since all the picks were great.

And personally, I would've rather nixed the entire campaign here in trade for more veterans returning since the fighting is what I'm buying the game for. Id have also happily traded The Subspace Emissary for the forbidden seven in Brawl.

Different strokes for different folks. But if people wanted an EiH scenario here and are disappointed, I dont see any harm in them expressing it as long as they're being respectful about it, and I'm certainly not gonna blame Everyone is here in a completely different game for it.

At the end of the day though this is a platfighter. Its gonna draw comparisons to its contemporaries.comes with the territory.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but I'm also someone who vastly prefers both Pichu and Young Link to their normal counterparts.

In my case, I think more people need to understand that it was pretty much Pichu or nothing when it comes to gen 2 reps, even if Melee had more time.

 

[LimeTH]

Another big problem is that this is one's only option for a Nickelodeon platform fighter, where big nick icons are pie-in-the-sky picks. Nick should honestly have a different dev make the more traditional, smash-like game for a wide audience, while letting Ludosity make their memey deep cut game aimed at the adult niche audience. Nick gets to make money from two games, and everyone's happy.

Anyway, bye everyone

I seriously don't get people who say the roster is nothing but "lol meme deep cut picks".

Spongebob, Patrick, Squidward, Aang, Korra, Raphael, Donatello, Ren and Stimpy, Garfield, Invader ZIM, Jenny, El Tigre, Jimmy Neutron, Norbert and Dagget, Rocko and Danny Phantom are all here. All main characters. Plankton, Lucy, Gerald, Nigel and April are major characters in their respective shows. Jimmy Neutron, the main character, replaced Hugh, the "memey deep cut" (who appears in every episode so he isn't a deep cut).

We lost Licoln and didn't get Arnold so apparently this roster is nothing but random bull****?

Get a grip.

 

[RileyXY1]

I seriously don't get people who say the roster is nothing but "lol meme deep cut picks".

Spongebob, Patrick, Squidward, Aang, Korra, Raphael, Donatello, Ren and Stimpy, Garfield, Invader ZIM, Jenny, El Tigre, Jimmy Neutron, Norbert and Dagget, Rocko and Danny Phantom are all here. All main characters. Plankton, Lucy, Gerald, Nigel and April are major characters in their. Jimmy Neutron, the main character, replaced Hugh, the "memey deep cut" (who appears in every episode so he isn't a deep cut).

We lost Licoln and didn't ger Arnold so apparently this roster is nothing but random bull****?

Get a grip.

Some people are just upset that they prioritized Arnold's grandma over their favorite characters.

 

[Faso115]

Spoiler

Can anyone else confirm this? Are the characters in the middle actually cut due to time constraints? That's a shame, but an interesting position where they could be DLC in the future

 

[RileyXY1]

I still wonder what was up with Loud Castle. This is the first time that a character was given a home stage that isn't from their show.