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Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

Guynamednelson

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This is true but PSASBR had fundamental design and roster problems as well.
I won't deny that supers being mandatory to kill is an awful idea, but despite its lack of Crash/Spyro/Cloud/Lara Croft/Snake/the Dante people like, I'd say Kratos, Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, Sackboy, Sweet Tooth, Parappa, Heihachi, Nathan Drake are all completely worthy of a roster of a game called "Playstation All-Stars", and outside of being the only Metal Gear rep, Raiden aged like wine with how MGR is still being talked about,
 

Ze Diglett

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I honestly don't really know what people mean when they talk about "dethroning Smash" anymore. If they're talking in terms of playercount, that's literally never going to happen unless Smash just lies down and dies. If we're talking competitive viability or fun factor, you could argue games like Rivals and, yes, NASB have already done that even if they aren't as talked about. Is it just a crossover fighting game people want? We're getting more and more of those, too, mainly as more corporate execs realize how easy it is to sell the idea of a "crossover" to people. Polish? I guess, but that comes with the territory of most of these games being indie-made and I'd argue the game being fun as a baseline is way more important anyway.
I guess I'm just confused as to what people want out of a platform fighter these days. If you just want a fun casual or competitive platform fighter that isn't Smash, I'd argue we've been spoiled for choice on that front for years; you just need to be willing to branch out into some less-played (but still high-quality) stuff.
 
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Opossum

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With regards to PSASBR, even besides the more common complaints, be it the lack of certain third party characters, or the "only supers can kill" system being way too overly centralizing, the biggest issue that soured its reputation is one that barely gets talked about: when it released.

It released at a time when platform fighters weren't considered their own distinct genre, and it got a lot of pushback for "trying to copy Smash Bros." It was dismissively called Sony's Smash Clone with the same derision people use for things like the PlayStation Move vs the Wii Remote.

Genuinely, had it waited a couple of years, it might've found a wider audience in spite of its issues.
 
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Quick Gaming (QG)

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Games like PSASBR, Digimon Rumble Arena, and CNPTEXL didn't inherit their flaws from being too similar to or different from Smash - they inherited them from a common misunderstanding of Smash's appeal at the time. The common assumption then was that the reason that Smash works is simply because it's a fighting game that less experienced players can understand with unusual stage layouts and Mario Kart items, when in reality Smash gained its appeal - even casually - from a lot of different mechanics not found in other fighting games, particularly related to movement, stage layouts (not inherently of the wacky variety), and ring-outs, alongside (not "as opposed to" or "in spite of", mind you) the pick-up-and-play control scheme and casual bonus content - think of it like the Pac-Man ghost AI, very few people fully understand it, but everybody who plays the game experiences it too, and it contributes positively even if not noticed - and that applies to the modern Smash games as well as the first 2 games. While Project M definitely contributed a lot to quelling this misconception, Rivals absolutely crushed it.
I didn’t say past platform fighters were flawed for being too similar or too different from Smash though? So idk what you’re getting at here
 

Guynamednelson

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I guess I'm just confused as to what people want out of a platform fighter these days.
Enough influencers who give enough ****s about them. They're called INFLUENCERS for a reason.

I think some of you people underestimate just how much of the gaming population is content creator-brained, even if they don't watch Dunkey or Prosafia. If all the gaming YouTubers don't bring up NASB at all except maybe to crap on NASB1's launch, what do you think the public is gonna do?

A. Not give NASB2 a chance
B. Not give NASB2 a chance
C. Not give NASB2 a chance
or D. All of the above?

Project M was lucky that the 3.0 update came out right before gamers thought the only merit multiplayer-based games had was Twitch views and not being the subject of GAME DEAD WHAT WENT WRONG clickbait.
 

dlewis53

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Honestly, I've never gotten the whole "such-and-such killer" mindset; I honestly don't care much if something in a particular genre beats out something really popular. I just want the new thing to be fun for me. Plus, you're allowed to play different games from the same genre (i.e. mascot platform fighters and mascot kart racers); just because Smash and Mario Kart dominate those two genres doesn't mean you only have to play those two games.
 

Guynamednelson

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Honestly, I've never gotten the whole "such-and-such killer" mindset; I honestly don't care much if something in a particular genre beats out something really popular. I just want the new thing to be fun for me. Plus, you're allowed to play different games from the same genre (i.e. mascot platform fighters and mascot kart racers); just because Smash and Mario Kart dominate those two genres doesn't mean you only have to play those two games.
Just because I know most gamers lack the ability to play a game without it being on the front page of Twitch/the subject of POSITIVE clickbait (aka not this) doesn't mean I need NASB to kill Smash.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Yeah I souldn't have used the world "dethrone", I agree that it shouldn't be the goal of the game at all and that was a mistake on my part.

But I think the general problem of the platform fighting genre is that it's still very young. I mean, sure Smash exist since 1999, but the genre only started to get seriously talked about in the mid 2010s with indie game like Brawlhalla and Rivals of Aether, and there's still not a lot of AAA platform fighter game even today aside from Smash itself. This is a bit like early 90s fighting games who were mostly based on the succes of Street fighter 2 (like Fatal fury or Mortal kombat) and only in the late 90s the genre become more diversified with Tekken, Soul calibur etc. I'm sure we'll see more and more different Platform fighters in the future, but I wish that more AAA studios would give the genre a try instead of being mostly a indie genre aside from Nintendo.


I won't deny that supers being mandatory to kill is an awful idea, but despite its lack of Crash/Spyro/Cloud/Lara Croft/Snake/the Dante people like, I'd say Kratos, Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, Sackboy, Sweet Tooth, Parappa, Heihachi, Nathan Drake are all completely worthy of a roster of a game called "Playstation All-Stars", and outside of being the only Metal Gear rep, Raiden aged like wine with how MGR is still being talked about,
Yeah honestly people hate so much PSASBR roster but honestly I don't think it's THAT bad. Even third party picks like Big Daddy and Isaac Clarke, at the time they were seen as pretty random picks, but retrospectively even today both Bioshock and Dead space are considered some of the best franchise to come out of the ps3 era, with today the Dead space remake being a very good succes and people have been claiming for Bioshock to come back for years.

Man I still wish they would green light a sequel because with how much Sony has changed with the ps4 era, the roster could easily be even better without even dealing with third party too much.
 

ivanlerma

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I won't deny that supers being mandatory to kill is an awful idea, but despite its lack of Crash/Spyro/Cloud/Lara Croft/Snake/the Dante people like, I'd say Kratos, Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, Sackboy, Sweet Tooth, Parappa, Heihachi, Nathan Drake are all completely worthy of a roster of a game called "Playstation All-Stars", and outside of being the only Metal Gear rep, Raiden aged like wine with how MGR is still being talked about,
i like the kill systems in the game, it's fun and unique too.
 

Ze Diglett

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Enough influencers who give enough ****s about them. They're called INFLUENCERS for a reason.

I think some of you people underestimate just how much of the gaming population is content creator-brained, even if they don't watch Dunkey or Prosafia. If all the gaming YouTubers don't bring up NASB at all except maybe to crap on NASB1's launch, what do you think the public is gonna do?

A. Not give NASB2 a chance
B. Not give NASB2 a chance
C. Not give NASB2 a chance
or D. All of the above?

Project M was lucky that the 3.0 update came out right before gamers thought the only merit multiplayer-based games had was Twitch views and not being the subject of GAME DEAD WHAT WENT WRONG clickbait.
I don't really see the point in losing sleep over how much "street cred" your game has. I've dealt with hearing my favorite game called "dead" for the past 6 years only for it to break its all-time playercount record with an update that honest-to-God wasn't even that good. Likewise, I don't really care about X content creator writing NASB off as a "failure" and I think they and anyone who parrots their BS can eat a load of crow. If they insist on calling any game that drops off the front page of Twitch "dead," they can simply get three-stocked by my Garfield in three months.
Even if this does matter as much as you say it does, what do you want the devs to do about it? They put in the legwork marketing the game to streamers and comp players last time, and even that was largely written off as them "pandering to Hungrybox" or whatever. It's the devs' job to make a good game, and at that point, the "influencers" either care about the game or they don't.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I've dealt with hearing my favorite game called "dead" for the past 6 years only for it to break its all-time playercount record with an update that honest-to-God wasn't even that good
I know what game you're talking about, and all I'm gonna say about that particular one is that it at least has GMod/SFM animators essentially making the commercials that Valve doesn't. The closest NASB had to that ran away and never came back.
 

Opossum

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I'm curious about something. Do we know Nickelodeon's stance on the 4 turtles taking from different eras?
Apparently someone said they're against mixing the eras but I've also never seen a source for the quote.
 
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Shroob

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I don't really see the point in losing sleep over how much "street cred" your game has. I've dealt with hearing my favorite game called "dead" for the past 6 years only for it to break its all-time playercount record with an update that honest-to-God wasn't even that good.
While to a point I agree, I think it's extremely unfair to compare TF2's ongoing zombiefied unlife to any other game. TF2 is by all intents an anomaly of gaming, there are very few communities that have can really be compared to it.


By all intents, TF2 really is a dead game being milked by VALVe to squeeze out as much money as they can from it, but the community keeps it alive. If TF2 were to ever lose that passionate fanbase, it'd be as dead as TF1/Day of Defeat.
 

Guynamednelson

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but the community keeps it alive.
That's what I meant when I said "it at least has GMod/SFM animators essentially making the commercials that Valve doesn't". Valve doesn't need to invest a single cent into marketing a 15 year old game that never made as much as CSGO/DOTA when someone can easily stumble across thousands of fan-made TF2 animations and then go play the game for free to see why we're invested in the war between a speedy Bostonian, his French dad who can disguise as enemies and disable sentries, the Texan who builds those sentries and chopped off his own hand to replace it with a robot one, and their blue-colored counterparts.

Meanwhile with NASB2, there are people acting like a $50 sequel to a game released two years ago whose lack of content has been resolved is a scam but not $70 annual sports games, and it's gonna stay that way unless GameMill invests more into marketing NASB2 in particular or the fanbase helps promote the fact that NASB2=/=launch NASB1.
 

Ze Diglett

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While to a point I agree, I think it's extremely unfair to compare TF2's ongoing zombiefied unlife to any other game. TF2 is by all intents an anomaly of gaming, there are very few communities that have can really be compared to it.


By all intents, TF2 really is a dead game being milked by VALVe to squeeze out as much money as they can from it, but the community keeps it alive. If TF2 were to ever lose that passionate fanbase, it'd be as dead as TF1/Day of Defeat.
I'm well aware that TF2 is a special case in the modern gaming world. I bring it up less as a direct comparison to NASB and more so to illustrate that I don't really care what people think about my favorite games. Xenoblade 2 would've been a better example, even if it's not multiplayer. Opinions on that game are more split than Miley Cyrus's ass, but I don't let the haters get me down because that's not how I roll. (Hell, you wanna talk mixed reception, ask a Sonic fan what people think of their favorite games.) While NASB could certainly use some better PR, at the end of the day, brand recognition and deliberate attempts to market it will only go so far. To an extent, the end product needs to speak for itself, something NASB, fun as it was, really didn't. NASB2 looks a lot more polished and feature-complete, so I'm hoping it'll do better in the long run.
 

Guynamednelson

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NASB2 looks a lot more polished and feature-complete, so I'm hoping it'll do better in the long run.
The one thing I'm at least optimistic about is that bosses and supers are easy clickbait for people like Prosafia.
 

RileyXY1

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That's what I meant when I said "it at least has GMod/SFM animators essentially making the commercials that Valve doesn't". Valve doesn't need to invest a single cent into marketing a 15 year old game that never made as much as CSGO/DOTA when someone can easily stumble across thousands of fan-made TF2 animations and then go play the game for free to see why we're invested in the war between a speedy Bostonian, his French dad who can disguise as enemies and disable sentries, the Texan who builds those sentries and chopped off his own hand to replace it with a robot one, and their blue-colored counterparts.

Meanwhile with NASB2, there are people acting like a $50 sequel to a game released two years ago whose lack of content has been resolved is a scam but not $70 annual sports games, and it's gonna stay that way unless GameMill invests more into marketing NASB2 in particular or the fanbase helps promote the fact that NASB2=/=launch NASB1.
I am concerned about the game's sales, mostly due to the first game's reputation.
 

RileyXY1

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I heard the first game greatly exceeded sales expectations.
It did sell pretty well (by GameMill standards at least) but the game had a terrible audience retention level and the vast majority of the game's launch playerbase left after only a few weeks. Not even the addition of new characters and features like alts, voice acting, and items could bring them back. And with NASB2, there is some concern that people just won't buy it because of the reputation that NASB1 has as an unfinished game lacking features at launch.
 

Quick Gaming (QG)

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It did sell pretty well (by GameMill standards at least) but the game had a terrible audience retention level and the vast majority of the game's launch playerbase left after only a few weeks. Not even the addition of new characters and features like alts, voice acting, and items could bring them back. And with NASB2, there is some concern that people just won't buy it because of the reputation that NASB1 has as an unfinished game lacking features at launch.
Jenny brought a good amount of people back. That’s about it though
 

Shroob

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NASB2 has an uphill battle, no one's going to deny that.



But looking at IGN and Nintendo's trailer for the game, it's got a pretty good view count for a game that's not a first party Nintendo title.


There's definitely reason to be concerned sure, but let's at least give the game a chance to come out first before we get antsy about its future.
 

Mamboo07

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It did sell pretty well (by GameMill standards at least) but the game had a terrible audience retention level and the vast majority of the game's launch playerbase left after only a few weeks. Not even the addition of new characters and features like alts, voice acting, and items could bring them back. And with NASB2, there is some concern that people just won't buy it because of the reputation that NASB1 has as an unfinished game lacking features at launch.
I feel like it was due to the budget.
 

Alicorn

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Yeah the lack of a budget contributed to the game looking unpolished compared to other games released around the same time.
 
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If everyone is back, we’ll probably see around 3 showcases a week

If not, then probably 2 showcases a week

So ideally if they want to pan these out properly, we should get at least 2 a week
That sounds like a good idea. It gives us at least 10 weeks of showcases.

Any ideas on what days the showcases may premiere on?
 

Quick Gaming (QG)

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Apparently the roster of characters on the Spanish Wikipedia page for NASB 2 is VERY different looking for some reason, it’s missing certain veterans while adding other non confirmed ones and is missing a few confirmed newcomers as well, but also has a handful of other newcomers? I’m not expecting this to be legit in any capacity but it is kinda weird that this is just like this
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Apparently the roster of characters on the Spanish Wikipedia page for NASB 2 is VERY different looking for some reason, it’s missing certain veterans while adding other non confirmed ones and is missing a few confirmed newcomers as well, but also has a handful of other newcomers? I’m not expecting this to be legit in any capacity but it is kinda weird that this is just like this
This is a certified Street Sharks moment.
 

Guynamednelson

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I don't really care what people think about my favorite games
Let me ask you something here: Do you have people you regularly play NASB with? Locally or online? Because that's the problem here. I don't. And I will continue to not have people to play the game with as long as NASB is associated with the first game's launch.
 
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