Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Noipoi]

The Smash 6 reveal is gonna have the Bananza Donkey Kong design stanced up like this

 

[Fa7oFuru]

Okay, I got one that will make everyone happy. What about Mallow from Super Mario RPG? I heard people really want a character from that game.

It's not my preference by any means but at this point I would take it. SMRPG fans are in no position to be picky-choosey for which of Geno and Mallow get in so while I would prefer Geno you won't see me crying about Mallow getting in if Geno can make cameos ala Rex in Aegis moveset or appears as an Assist

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I honestly think Mallow's weather powers would make for a more intriguing moveset than Geno's but I'm also realistic enough to accept that the latter has the real demand.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The raging popularity to bring back sure is good evidence

Why bring him back for 4 if it wasn't?

Especially when Lucario fulfills his archetype



Free title remake of the first title isn't exactly mainstream relevancy and Earthbound is such a blanket statement that applies to almost every franchise already in and even then that description is kinda overstated

Undertale is its own popularity which comes with other inspirations that isn't Mother. I argue this is probably reason why they would be cut if push really comes to shove over Puff.

Undertale is much relevant and popular in the modern day than Mother really was. Show anyone a pic of Ness and Sans or even just mention the games and find out who actually "legendary"

They couldn’t even bother to get Mewtwo in the base roster of Smash for. I also don’t think it was a mistake that the irrelevant Ice Climbers were prioritized over Mewtwo and Jigglypuff in Brawl. In case you aren’t aware Jigglypuff was one of the last characters added to Brawl, along with Sonic, Toon Link and Wolf.

I personally think Mewtwo should be in every Smash game, but Pokemon is a series that is doomed to get cuts the more they add. You can’t expect them to keep every Pokèmon just because “it’s Pokèmon”.

I think they are going to want to prioritize bringing back popular Pokémon from other generations like Lucario and Greninja before Mewtwo again. Not saying Mewtwo won’t come back, but it’s not a guarantee.

If you want to talk about people raging about characters getting cut, cutting Ness and Captain Falcon will most definitely get a bigger outcry from Smash fans than cutting Jigglypuff or Mewtwo again.

 

[Arcanir]

The raging popularity to bring back sure is good evidence

Why bring him back for 4 if it wasn't?

Especially when Lucario fulfills his archetype

Well for one, Lucario doesn't play like Mewtwo.

 

[Perkilator]

New Dream Smasher? I hardly know ‘er!

…I’ll see myself out.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They couldn’t even bother to get Mewtwo in the base roster of Smash for. I also don’t think it was a mistake that the irrelevant Ice Climbers were prioritized over Mewtwo and Jigglypuff in Brawl. In case you aren’t aware, it is known that Jigglypuff was a last minute character added to Brawl, Sonic and the last minute clone characters (Toon Link and Wolf).

I personally think Mewtwo should be in every Smash game, but Pokemon is a series that is doomed to get cuts the more they add. You can’t expect them to keep every Pokèmon just because “it’s Pokèmon”.

I think they are going to want to prioritize bringing back popular Pokémon from other generations like Lucario and Greninja before Mewtwo again. Not saying Mewtwo won’t come back, but it’s not a guarantee.

If you want to talk about people raging about characters getting cut, cutting Ness and Captain Falcon will most definitely get a bigger outcry from Smash fans than cutting Jigglypuff or Mewtwo again.

Some of this is slightly off; all the characters in Brawl were in the base plan. Nobody was literally added last minute as an idea. It's just that some didn't have the development time to be in till last minute. That includes the Forbidden 7. Overall, 46 characters were planned, but only 39 made it in overall.

Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff were all intended to be in from the start, yes. They were worked on last, apparently(since they aren't in the SSE's main story, this is a presumed situation. It hasn't been entirely confirmed when they were worked on, though, from what I remember?). Sonic at least was known to be worked on later, due to not being actually approved of later on(part of the delays of the game is due to this).

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Well for one, Lucario doesn't play like Mewtwo.

Dear ****ing lord, someone's doing the "Lucario is a Mewtwo clone" bull**** here too? Is it that Zizz guy again?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Some of this is slightly off; all the characters in Brawl were in the base plan. Nobody was literally added last minute as an idea. It's just that some didn't have the development time to be in till last minute. That includes the Forbidden 7. Overall, 46 characters were planned, but only 39 made it in overall.

Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff were all intended to be in from the start, yes. They were worked on last, apparently(since they aren't in the SSE's main story, this is a presumed situation. It hasn't been entirely confirmed when they were worked on, though, from what I remember?). Sonic at least was known to be worked on later, due to not being actually approved of later on(part of the delays of the game is due to this).

Yeah, my wording definitely could have been better.

I recall people digging up the file names of the characters, and those 4 were at the bottom of the list implying they were the last ones added.

That is a thing, right? I didn’t hallucinate that, right?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, my wording definitely could have been better.

I recall people digging up the file names of the characters, and those 4 were at the bottom of the list implying they were the last ones added.

That is a thing, right? I didn’t hallucinate that, right?

Nope, that's correct too. That's what I couldn't remember well. XD

That said, I'm not sure what the order of the files meant. Maybe it was SSE appearances? Which doesn't inherently mean "order of creation". That said, I do feel that with the SSE taking up so much development time, it's pretty likely they were worked on last(which means after Sonic).

 

[Will]

I honestly think Mallow's weather powers would make for a more intriguing moveset than Geno's but I'm also realistic enough to accept that the latter has the real demand.

A Mallow assist trophy would go hard though

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

New Dream Smasher? I hardly know ‘er!

…I’ll see myself out.

People have had her as a Dream Smasher for years though...

 

[fogbadge]

So here’s a topic I’ve been meaning to bring up, that we’ve probably discussed before but it’s been a while, do you think in the next smash will carry on with Nintendo picking the characters or go back to letting Sakurai pick?

 

[Slime Scholar]

So here’s a topic I’ve been meaning to bring up, that we’ve probably discussed before but it’s been a while, do you think in the next smash will carry on with Nintendo picking the characters or go back to letting Sakurai pick?

Nintendo will probably pick them again. Obviously Sakurai will continue to have some say, like whether or not a character choice is viable, and he can probably make his own suggestions. But it’s Nintendo’s game at the end of the day and it certainly worked out well for Ultimate.

I also, frankly, don’t think Sakurai wants total control of something as front-facing as the roster.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

So here’s a topic I’ve been meaning to bring up, that we’ve probably discussed before but it’s been a while, do you think in the next smash will carry on with Nintendo picking the characters or go back to letting Sakurai pick?

Probably a combination of both but it will probably be more Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

Nintendo will probably pick them again. Obviously Sakurai will continue to have some say, like whether or not a character choice is viable, and he can probably make his own suggestions. But it’s Nintendo’s game at the end of the day and it certainly worked out well for Ultimate.

I also, frankly, don’t think Sakurai wants total control of something as front-facing as the roster.

well he had total control up until ultimate’s DLC as far as we know. even then the first DLC character was definitely down to him

 

[Thegameandwatch]

well he had total control up until ultimate’s DLC as far as we know. even then the first DLC character was definitely down to him

1st Party characters are seemingly the only ones that were chosen by Nintendo specifically. They likely still negotiated withe 3rd Party studios but Nintendo probably didn't specifically pick the characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

1st Party characters are seemingly the only ones that were chosen by Nintendo specifically. They likely still negotiated withe 3rd Party studios but Nintendo probably didn't specifically pick them.

No, they chose all of the Fighter's Pass. That was made clear multiple times by Sakurai.

Of course Sakurai was required to actually get the characters working, as well as negotiations, etc.

 

[fogbadge]

No, they chose all of the Fighter's Pass. That was made clear multiple times by Sakurai.

Of course Sakurai was required to actually get the characters working, as well as negotiations, etc.

with seemingly some wiggle room with ARMS

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think Tingle's time has probably passed. While the kneejerk antipathy towards him is long gone, there hasn't really been a major groundswell of supporters that's emerged, and the LoZ series has become far more populated with figures that a realistically ahead of him terms of fan support and possibly gameplay potential. Over time he increasingly feels like a relic of the 2000s period that's fun to see pop in series celebrations like Hyrule Warriors but not really much beyond that.

Really is a shame for me as someone who had been wanting him back in SSB4-days. Honestly feels like him getting booted off Brawl before being relegated to mixed breakout character relic from 2000s really did a number on him (not to mention the tongue-in-cheek "disgust" reactions whenever you wear Tingle's Tunic in BOTW seems to imply Nintendo prefers to keep him there.)

On that note, it doubly baffles me how we still haven't received a proper Zelda-newcomer since... Melee? I feel like this seems to go also for likes of Midna and Ghirahim, who also got put to Assist-status between Brawl and Smash 4.

I still hope we at least see Impa showing up someday if looking throughout recurring characters in the entire series regardless of timelines - but I do wonder if we'll be getting Rauru now, or Sages from TOTK since the time for Champions is also gone.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

with seemingly some wiggle room with ARMS

Probably not any wiggle room. Sakurai made it clear they chose the characters. This is far more likely than the Producer requested it to Nintendo. Nintendo talked to Sakurai and it was made to happen since he had no real issues with it(he was curious why it wasn't someone like Spring Man, apparently, but it's not clear if that mattered. We know he spoke to the Producer on that "main character" factor, but that was more likely to help explain to us why she was chosen).

The details are a bit muddy other than "Nintendo chose each Fighter's Pass character". It wouldn't have made sense to say that if Sakurai was the one who was asked to include Min Min from the Producer specifically. It doesn't fit the actual details given in any way.

 

[fogbadge]

Probably not any wiggle room. Sakurai made it clear they chose the characters. This is far more likely than the Producer requested it to Nintendo. Nintendo talked to Sakurai and it was made to happen since he had no real issues with it(he was curious why it wasn't someone like Spring Man, apparently, but it's not clear if that mattered. We know he spoke to the Producer on that "main character" factor, but that was more likely to help explain to us why she was chosen).

The details are a bit muddy other than "Nintendo chose each Fighter's Pass character". It wouldn't have made sense to say that if Sakurai was the one who was asked to include Min Min from the Producer specifically. It doesn't fit the actual details given in any way.

he did say he was considering both Ninjara and Min Min so I always took that mean Nintendo just told him to have an arms character

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

he did say he was considering both Ninjara and Min Min so I always took that mean Nintendo just told him to have an arms character

It wouldn't have worked that way since we know where the request was from. That, and it kind of goes against them "choosing the character" too.

He just had a coincidental consideration and nothing more.

 

[fogbadge]

It wouldn't have worked that way since we know where the request was from. That, and it kind of goes against them "choosing the character" too.

He just had a coincidental consideration and nothing more.

alright then

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

It wouldn't have worked that way since we know where the request was from. That, and it kind of goes against them "choosing the character" too.

He just had a coincidental consideration and nothing more.

At the very least we know that while Nintendo decided on adding a Tekken character it was Sakurai who specifically chose Kazuya, because he felt he would translate the best into Smash thanks to his devil gene powers.

 

[SharkLord]

Really is a shame for me as someone who had been wanting him back in SSB4-days. Honestly feels like him getting booted off Brawl before being relegated to mixed breakout character relic from 2000s really did a number on him (not to mention the tongue-in-cheek "disgust" reactions whenever you wear Tingle's Tunic in BOTW seems to imply Nintendo prefers to keep him there.)

On that note, it doubly baffles me how we still haven't received a proper Zelda-newcomer since... Melee? I feel like this seems to go also for likes of Midna and Ghirahim, who also got put to Assist-status between Brawl and Smash 4.

I still hope we at least see Impa showing up someday if looking throughout recurring characters in the entire series regardless of timelines - but I do wonder if we'll be getting Rauru now, or Sages from TOTK since the time for Champions is also gone.

I feel like Rauru's mostly referenced out of recency bias - I suppose having a vessel for TotK's shenanigans would be interesting, but I'm not sure if that's enough, especially when you can just give some of that to Link anyways. The Champions seem like the most popular characters from the BotW, from what I've seen. After them, the Sages seem like the next most likely - I believe Sidon's pretty popular, and I've seen Riju tossed around a bit as well. Not the most well-versed on Zelda though, so I can't say for sure

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At the very least we know that while Nintendo decided on adding a Tekken character it was Sakurai who specifically chose Kazuya, because he felt he would translate the best into Smash thanks to his devil gene powers.

That said, we definitely know what was the core reason Min Min was chosen, so it couldn't apply to ARMS either way.

Where was this cited, btw? I don't remember it.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

That said, we definitely know what was the core reason Min Min was chosen, so it couldn't apply to ARMS either way.

Where was this cited, btw? I don't remember it.

Apparently the ARMS producer wanted Min Min since she was his favorite character although the Smash developers were deciding between Min Min and Ninjara before that.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

That said, we definitely know what was the core reason Min Min was chosen, so it couldn't apply to ARMS either way.

Where was this cited, btw? I don't remember it.

Sakurai talks about it in his Mr. Sakurai presents “Kazuya” video.

I always assumed the producer wanting Min Min was the deciding factor for why Min Min was chosen over Ninjara, but perhaps I misinterpreted what Sakurai was saying.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Do any of you have most wanted Third Party villains? (In the same vein as Sephiroth) Personally mine is Psaro Banesword who i’ve talked about before.

Nightmare from Soulcalibur is my most wanted, full stop.

Getting either Scorpion or Sub-Zero would be a pretty funny thing to have too but let's be real, that's never gonna happen.

No, they chose all of the Fighter's Pass. That was made clear multiple times by Sakurai.

Of course Sakurai was required to actually get the characters working, as well as negotiations, etc.

Sakurai was also allowed the final say if he thought a character wouldn't be feasible iirc, so he had power over the choices too.

 

[SharkLord]

I feel like Rauru's mostly referenced out of recency bias - I suppose having a vessel for TotK's shenanigans would be interesting, but I'm not sure if that's enough, especially when you can just give some of that to Link anyways. The Champions seem like the most popular characters from the BotW, from what I've seen. After them, the Sages seem like the next most likely - I believe Sidon's pretty popular, and I've seen Riju tossed around a bit as well. Not the most well-versed on Zelda though, so I can't say for sure

Going back to this for a bit... Is there a most popular BotW-era character? I've seen multiple characters mentioned before and the general agreement seems to be there isn't any one specific standout. Given that we're still getting content from the era, it seems reasonable to expect a new fighter to reference this part of the series, assuming we get a new Zelda fighter at all (Which has been debated to death already and I'd rather not get back into). I've mentioned many times that I haven't played much Zelda, so I'll ask here:

In the scenario where we get a fighter from Breath of the Wild and/or related games, who would be chosen to be the fighter? If there's no clear option, who should be the fighter? Pitch your preferred characters to me, try to sell me on them. I'm all ears

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Going back to this for a bit... Is there a most popular BotW-era character? I've seen multiple characters mentioned before and the general agreement seems to be there isn't any one specific standout. Given that we're still getting content from the era, it seems reasonable to expect a new fighter to reference this part of the series, assuming we get a new Zelda fighter at all (Which has been debated to death already and I'd rather not get back into). I've mentioned many times that I haven't played much Zelda, so I'll ask here:

In the scenario where we get a fighter from Breath of the Wild and/or related games, who would be chosen to be the fighter? If there's no clear option, who should be the fighter? Pitch your preferred characters to me, try to sell me on them. I'm all ears

For a little bit it was Urbosa. I think people might also be into Sidon, but he was never routinely discussed due to not seeming very likely.


I still think the best option is Master Khoga because he's got high appeal with personality, and moveset potential that isn't super nebulous. He can even use Zonai stuff if people really want that in a character that isn't Link. Rauru does have a cooler design but character wise is pretty eh from what I've seen.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai was also allowed the final say if he thought a character wouldn't be feasible iirc, so he had power over the choices too.

Yeah, but I meant he didn't make the choice specifically, so much as approve of it.

Either way, it makes me wonder if they had more than one idea for Tekken that led to choosing Kazuya or if he actually chosen him from the franchise in a general way. Min Min at least we know was because of the Director, which makes it kind of hard to imagine that Sakurai was given a list. But it's not impossible with what you said in mind.

 

[Idon]

I think that unless you're Pokemon, the biggest thing on the planet, the odds of Smash picking a specific character out of a designated group is extremely low. Characters like the several Zelda Champions are inevitably tied to the fact they're part of a quartet that makes up an image and I don't think either Sakurai or Nintendo are interested in picking a specific one out of them.

Putting that aside, I don't think Rauru stands much of a chance either due to mainly being a background lore character outside of the Musous which Smash just purposely fully ignores.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I think that unless you're Pokemon, the biggest thing on the planet, the odds of Smash picking a specific character out of a designated group is extremely low. Characters like the several Zelda Champions are inevitably tied to the fact they're part of a quartet that makes up an image and I don't think either Sakurai or Nintendo are interested in picking a specific one out of them.

Putting that aside, I don't think Rauru stands much of a chance either due to mainly being a background lore character outside of the Musous which Smash just purposely fully ignores.

Well Breath of the Wild is one of the biggest singular video games on the planet, that’s got to count for something, right?

Also Smash does not purposely fully ignore the Musous, Age of Calamity received spirits in Ultimate.

 

[Dee Dude]

Yo yo, the man’s back again lol!

I can’t believe it’s already been two weeks since the Switch 2 Direct, I have a lot of mixed receptions ranging between positive and negative, I’m super thrilled about the first party releases (Kart World, Bananza, Air Riders) major 3rd party ports and NSO GameCube but I’m also super letdown by how utterly greedy Nintendo is by those prices, the console being 450$ is fine but 80-90$ for seperate games is just unacceptable for me so I’m hoping there’s gonna a 3DS-level backlash eventually.

As for the topic regarding Sakurai and Smash, I’m quite happy to see him work on Kirby again after nearly two decades but also leaves a bit concerned about Smash’s future.

I do believe a brand new game is inevitable because it’s Nintendo’s fighting equivalent to Mario Kart that sells systems across the nation but we’ll probably won’t see it for a while since Bandai Namco Studio S/Studio 2 are working on Air Riders as well, however nothing suggests that Nintendo won’t just approach a different studio to work on Smash 6 with a new director at the helm.

 

[Dukefire]

I honestly think Mallow's weather powers would make for a more intriguing moveset than Geno's but I'm also realistic enough to accept that the latter has the real demand.

Geno is the standard Black Mage in SMRPG as his spells hits hard while being a glass cannon. Mallow is the standard regular mage as he has a balance of offense and defense spells. Peach is the definite White Mage of the group thanks to support spells.

If either Mallow or Geno joins Smash Bros, their Final Smash should be the Triple Move from the recent SMRPG remake.

 

[Watuna4343]

Nintendo will probably pick them again. Obviously Sakurai will continue to have some say, like whether or not a character choice is viable, and he can probably make his own suggestions. But it’s Nintendo’s game at the end of the day and it certainly worked out well for Ultimate.

I also, frankly, don’t think Sakurai wants total control of something as front-facing as the roster.

I'm pretty surprised people are saying that Nintendo will choose the characters. Up until now, the Ultimate DLC was the exception instead of the rule right? Because in all of the Smash base games and in 4's DLC, Sakurai seemed to be the one making the choices for who gets in. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case for Smash 6, I mean, I can't see the Smash Ultimate DLC becoming the new norm.

 

[Watuna4343]

Going back to this for a bit... Is there a most popular BotW-era character? I've seen multiple characters mentioned before and the general agreement seems to be there isn't any one specific standout. Given that we're still getting content from the era, it seems reasonable to expect a new fighter to reference this part of the series, assuming we get a new Zelda fighter at all (Which has been debated to death already and I'd rather not get back into). I've mentioned many times that I haven't played much Zelda, so I'll ask here:

In the scenario where we get a fighter from Breath of the Wild and/or related games, who would be chosen to be the fighter? If there's no clear option, who should be the fighter? Pitch your preferred characters to me, try to sell me on them. I'm all ears

I had made a prediction roster the other day (disclaimer: not wishlist, prediction). I really think it'll be Sidon. He fits best as the new Zelda newcomer, what with being a very popular character who isn't a one-off for once, from the BotW era which as mentioned is HUGE now and he has the trident, something that can be used to make a moveset that's unique to him. I do think that he fits the bill pretty much to a tea, and I think that even with the new Smash being years away, the BotW era is so big, it can definitely warrant a newcomer even later on.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, but I meant he didn't make the choice specifically, so much as approve of it.

Either way, it makes me wonder if they had more than one idea for Tekken that led to choosing Kazuya or if he actually chosen him from the franchise in a general way. Min Min at least we know was because of the Director, which makes it kind of hard to imagine that Sakurai was given a list. But it's not impossible with what you said in mind.

Nintendo was probably well aware of his struggle with thinking of a Heihachi moveset back in the Smash 4 days and gave him carte blanche on trying to find the right character for a Tekken addition because of it. But that's just specula.

With that said, there's one character we know for a fact Nintendo didn't make the first move on; Sora. That was Sakurai taking a chance the moment he saw a Disney executive. Nintendo likely still handled all the negotiations but Sakurai did the first move for him. However, exceptions do not break patterns or rules, they confirm them because they wouldn't be exceptions if those patterns or rules didn't exist.

Also Smash does not purposely fully ignore the Musous, Age of Calamity received spirits in Ultimate.

They still do for movesets, which was likely Idon's entire point.

I'm pretty surprised people are saying that Nintendo will choose the characters. Up until now, the Ultimate DLC was the exception instead of the rule right? Because in all of the Smash base games and in 4's DLC, Sakurai seemed to be the one making the choices for who gets in. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case for Smash 6, I mean, I can't see the Smash Ultimate DLC becoming the new norm.

Because Nintendo actually turned out to make some really good choices?

Starting off with Joker is wild.